2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[JoggingGod]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Meant to say Mills.  If you think they are dolts for liking them (if those indeed are the targets, which we don't know for sure) as roll of the dice fliers later in the draft, cool.  Who do you got, that you'd prefer to roll the dice on?

Trade up for one of the top 5 guys. That’s our only option because the 2022 draft is a weak class and we won’t be bad enough to draft high for what’s there.

 

Mills is fine I guess. Trask is a waste of a draft pick. In this league you need someone with any semblance of mobility and arm strength or an elite processor like Tom Brady. Trask has/is none of those. Why he’s even draftable let alone going on day 2 in this case is beyond me.

[KDawg]

I like that Jordan is losing steam now. Makes it more realistic for us to get him in the second.

 

Please keep the Tremble hype train rolling

[Skinsinparadise]

Biggest question to be answered: Who is the quarterback of the future? That person is not yet on the roster and there's no doubt Washington will consider drafting one later this month; it doesn't feel it must be addressed in round one. While Taylor Heinicke was a nice story for his one start, that's hardly enough to launch him from being out of the league for two years into a prominent role for the future. They have a wait-and-see approach with him and Kyle Allen. But they'd like to add someone they view as having much more long-range potential who can also learn from Fitzpatrick. -- John Keim

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31154504/most-impactful-moves-2021-offseason-goals-all-32-nfl-teams

 

[JoggingGod]

QBs of the future don’t come from after round 1 unless you get extremely lucky. Like extremely. Teams that plan on getting their QBotF from rd 2 or later usually fail, actually almost always fail. Just bite the bullet and trade up now so you know you have a  franchise QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Trade up for one of the top 5 guys. That’s our only option because the 2022 draft is a weak class and we won’t be bad enough to draft high for what’s there.

 

Mills is fine I guess. Trask is a waste of a draft pick. In this league you need someone with any semblance of mobility and arm strength or an elite processor like Tom Brady. Trask has/is none of those. Why he’s even draftable let alone going on day 2 in this case is beyond me.

 

By some accounts the top 4 will go with the top 4 picks in the draft.  So to trade up from 19, it would likely take more than the haul SF paid.  So more than 3 first rounders and a third.  I like Fields and Lance but not to that crazy degree because if you are wrong the franchise is set back for quite some time.   It wasn't pretty post 2012 for awhile after that RG3 trade -- I can't imagine giving up even more than that.

 

So I presume you mean go hard after Mac Jones.  I am ok with Mac if he drops to 19 but I am not giving up big trade capital for him.  I think Mills is a better athlete than Jones since you focused on that attribute.

 

As for Trask, I've slammed him on this thread from the college season on.  But I don't feel that strongly about him if they take him or for that matter any either QB flier type in the third round.   Zampese knows Trask from college.  if he wants to roll the dice on him, its fine with me as long as its not a first or 2nd rounder.  He's not one of my guys so to speak.  But I am leinient when it comes to fliers at the spot. 

7 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

QBs of the future don’t come from after round 1 unless you get extremely lucky. Like extremely. Teams that plan on getting their QBotF from rd 2 or later usually fail, actually almost always fail. Just bite the bullet and trade up now so you know you have a  franchise QB.

 

I've made the same point many times on the QB thread but I have a different twist to it.    I hate the idea of taking a QB just to take one.   But it sounds like there is a particular one they like for particular reasons at a particular value spot in the draft.  If they are that specific with a dude specifically in mind -- I'll ride with it and see what happens. 

[Est.1974]

Mills at #51 it is then.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Mills at #51 it is then.

 

It could be Mills but why do you think at #51 versus the third round?  If they do it in the 2nd, they better be right.  for me I could take it in the third round.  the 2nd round they'd be forgoing some good potential prospects IMO.  In the third, there are some good possibilities too but the 2nd IMO is likely really rich with talent. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I wish I can find more Jamin Davis games to watch.   But i'd say them interviewing Davis multiple times coupled with not being aggressive at LB in FA, I think there is a shot he's in play.   I'd be probably cool with it but I want to see his measurables. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I wish I can find more Jamin Davis games to watch.   But i'd say them interviewing Davis multiple times coupled with not being aggressive at LB in FA, I think there is a shot he's in play.   I'd be probably cool with it but I want to see his measurables. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do he and Jamin have pro days scheduled? I’d love to see numbers for both. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I see Kiper has Schwartz as one of his top 10 WRs.  I've talked about Anthony Schwartz.  His speed is unreal.  But top 10?

 

I like him as sort of a mid round-later rounder type.  he'd be insane as a weapon in the backfield but he's really raw as a receiver

 

3 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Do he and Jamin have pro days scheduled? I’d love to see numbers for both. 

 

Jamin's pro day is tomorrow. 

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, LLandryistheshiz said:

On Darrisaw, I’ll have to defer to folks watching him specifically every game, but from watching VT games the last few years, that guy was unbelievably talented. 

 

I guess the argument that Darrisaw plays soft or low motor is based on him not finishing like Teven Jenkins and doing to much spectating if the play runs away from him.  Cosmi gets the same criticisms.  They lack perspective IMO. 

 

First off, I've noticed that high pick NFL bound OTs like Jenkins are rare.  That level of aggression comes from being a 23 year old man planting boys when you can because you know you aren't fast enough to keep moving your feet and stay in front of them.  People confuse taking dudes to the ground all of the time with effectiveness as a run blocker IMO.  You pick your battles.  Second, every single one of these OL prospects do a lot of spectating on plays away from them.  The game has changed, RPOs and outside zone are a massive part of some offenses, particularly VTs.  You don't really have an assignment as a LT if those plays run right.  Last year I had similar complaints about Tristan Wirfs playing soft and spectating for stuff like that (only from the right side) and I just misunderstood/lacked perspective.  Wirfs ended up being a beast.

 

I posted a GIF of that rep of Darrisaw springing that TD waaay downfield in the BC game earlier in the thread.  It's one of my favorite plays of his, reminds me so much of the special blocks Trent Williams used to throw.  It's a good demonstration of how good a runner he is, he is absolutely booking it on that rep.  Combine that speed and coordination with his elite flexibility and good length and powerful hands and he is an ideal zone tackle that came out of the same mold as Duane Brown/Ryan Clady.  I would love for us to get him provided his work habits and passion for football check out as fine.  Those are the only things that could scare me off because I love his talent and I thoight his film was excellent this year.  And in defense of his passion for football, that kid played hurt this year and he played well.  He got it done for his team.

 

Also, how he dominated Quincy Roche is a succinct measuring stick of how far ahead of the third tier tackles he is in this class considering Quincy Roche lit Alex Leatherwood's ass on fire at the Senior Bowl.  Leatherwood is a case in point of why flexibility and coordination matter so much for OTs.  The guy is a king sized tackle with elite length and twitch but he has zero bend in his legs and just can not sink his hips and sit down on these dudes or win position and keep it with fluid lateral movement, and every rep is a fight for his life against aggressive and quick edge rushers with a strong counter or two.  For me Darrisaw in the first >>> a lesser OT prospect like Leatherwood in the second.  IMO Darrisaw or Cosmi at 19 is the only real chance of getting a Pro bowl LT from this class.  The other guys are either going to be serviceable but cap out at slightly above average (Eichenberg), play on the right side (Jenkins), or get moved inside, and that includes Alijah Vera-Tucker.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It could be Mills but why do you think at #51 versus the third round?  If they do it in the 2nd, they better be right.  for me I could take it in the third round.  the 2nd round they'd be forgoing some good potential prospects IMO.  In the third, there are some good possibilities too but the 2nd IMO is likely really rich with talent. 

a second rounder is rich for me, but if they like someone enough to think they’ll pick him in the third round, then especially at QB, what would stop them going in at #51? They basically took Gibson ‘early’ because they felt he wasn’t going to last 30 picks.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

a second rounder is rich for me, but if they like someone enough to think they’ll pick him in the third round, then especially at QB, what would stop them going in at #51? They basically took Gibson ‘early’ because they felt he wasn’t going to last 30 picks.

 

Keim seems to be a moving target on this considering I got the opposite impression that they wouldn't chase a QB in the draft if they signed a FA before FA happened.  But maybe i misunderstood or their view shifted on it.  But since Fitzpatrick was signed he's been coming on strong its heavily in play, and on the 2nd day.  He mentioned several times that it would be in round 3 and not round 2.  Today he mentioned 2nd day period where it could be either round.  So I don't know.

 

What struck me was Standig was hardcore they aren't going QB so he was in conflict with Keim and then all of a sudden yesterday he switched and mentioned he heard some buzz about them liking Davis Mills.  Keim has said Kyle Trask a good 5 different times based on memory.  He also said that was his take.  But Keim rarely hits a player repeatedly for no reason.  I'd add the article I posted here that quoted Zampese raving about Trask's intangibles from when he was coaching at UF.

 

So I think we can safely guess they like either Mills or Trask or both.   Keim has suggested they aren't going though to force it, if he's there, he's there.  So for the moment it gives me the impression that they like but don't love one of those two or both of them and if they are there at their pick in the third they'd take them.  

 

But lol we got a month to go so maybe the behind the scenes narrative shifts some.  Will see. 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Mills over Trask for me, based on limited viewing, but if Zampese has that inside knowledge of Trask then you would think that carries a lot of weight in the FO discussion. Going to be a heap of talent at #51 to pass over for a QB. Even in round 3 in fairness. 

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I guess the argument that Darrisaw plays soft or low motor is based on him not finishing like Teven Jenkins and doing to much spectating if the play runs away from him.  Cosmi gets the same criticisms.  They lack perspective IMO. 

 

 

From what i can tell and that includes my own take -- its not so stark as for extremes on it where Darrisaw is pegged as soft or having a low motor.  An ex-college O line coach was on a podcast (trying to recall which one, might have been via Jordan Reid) who actually knew Darrisaw back during the recuriting days among other things -- really likes him.  Yet, he thinks on occasion his motor isn't running hot.  The "on occasion" is the operative expression.  And I don't think it was because he doesn't understand Va Tech's Zone scheme.  He got into the scheme in detail.      And he knew the player first hand.  Overall he liked him a lot (as I do) but had a concern or two. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Mills over Trask for me, based on limited viewing, but if Zampese has that inside knowledge of Trask then you would think that carries a lot of weight in the FO discussion. Going to be a heap of talent at #51 to pass over for a QB. Even in round 3 in fairness. 

 

Yeah I don't love it in the third round either.  But if they are focused on one specific guy for whatever reason, I'll trust it.  I hate taking a guy just to take a guy unless we had nothing behind Fitzpatrick.

 

If they do it -- it will create some angst perhaps with the Hienicke hive because it seems clear that he or Kyle would be discarded unless one is stashed on injured reserve.  Keim talked about that on air today. 

 

From some of the posts/tweets/radio calls I've digested about Heinicke, some seem to think that Rivera really knows that Heinicke is the answer and they are just going through the motions to protect him or groom him.  Well, i'd say Keim's emphasis that they want to find a young Qb of the future doesn't play well into that Heinicke is the real answer narrative that some have.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Chris 44]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I don't love it in the third round either.  But if they are focused on one specific guy for whatever reason, I'll trust it.  I hate taking a guy just to take a guy unless we had nothing behind Fitzpatrick.

 

If they do it -- it will create some angst perhaps with the Hienicke hive because it seems clear that he or Kyle would be discarded unless one is stashed on injured reserve.  Keim talked about that on air today. 

 

From some of the posts/tweets/radio calls I've digested about Heinicke, some seem to think that Rivera really knows that Heinicke is the answer and they are just going through the motions to protect him or groom him.  Well, i'd say Keim's emphasis that they want to find a young Qb of the future doesn't play well into that Heinicke is the real answer narrative that some have.

That's interesting about Hienicke, I hadn't heard anything suggesting RR was thinking he may be the answer (not doubting you...Im just not as plugged in).

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

That seems like a pretty realistic draft, but I'd be pretty upset drafting OTs 1 and 2.

[actorguy1]

 

[Going Commando]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for Trask, I've slammed him on this thread from the college season on.  But I don't feel that strongly about him if they take him or for that matter any either QB flier type in the third round.   Zampese knows Trask from college.  if he wants to roll the dice on him, its fine with me as long as its not a first or 2nd rounder.  He's not one of my guys so to speak.  But I am leinient when it comes to fliers at the spot. 

 

There are only a couple of us here, but I'm a Trask guy.  I'm not a Mills guy, he was not productive in college and started only a little over a season's worth of games in three years, Mills's resume is late round/UDFA worthy.  Trask is mid-round worthy.

 

I like Trask because he's a dime dropper and he's a gamer.  I think people who already didn't like him are killing him for his bowl game performance, nevermind he was hyper-efficient all year.  But that bowl game was a travesty from Florida.  That whole team had quit and the bowl was perfunctory for them and he struggled under the circumstances.  A more finicky (or savvy) QB prospect would have opted out but Trask is a real gamer and he wasn't going to quit on his team.

 

I think he's got the silky touch and placement/timing on throws all over the field, especially on boundary side throws outside of the numbers.  I think the game slowed down for him this year and he became a great anticipatory thrower who saw the field so well.  Pitts and especially Grimes were big beneficiaries of his growth this year and his ability to make those anticipatory outside throws against single coverage, especially when he had to sit on them to let the window open or place the ball in an atypical spot.  Less aggressive and skilled QBs than Trask move off of them and don't give them the chance to go up and beat that coverage.  And I think Toney was a huge beneficiary of his accuracy and touch because that guy was just a talented nobody prior to this year.  A disappointing what-might-be when a bad QB like Franks was their starter.  Trask had a mind-meld with him and spoon fed him on those YAC opportunities.

 

I do think he has some ability to move his feet and throw a decent ball off balance and he navigates pocket mud well, belying his lack of athleticism.  He is money when he gets to set his feet.  And he is shockingly effective on designed runs, which he did a lot of this year.  He's slow and has absolutely zero elusiveness or ability to change gaps, but he is decisive and strong and just kind of rinos his way to the sticks through whatever gap he's picked out pre-snap.

 

It blows my mind that Mac Jones is considered a first rounder and Trask is considered a fourth rounder despite the fact Trask outplayed him most of the year and showed way more individual playmaking ability when under duress.  I'm not complaining though, let someone else take Jones in the first and give me Trask in the fourth.

 

[mhd24]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

There are only a couple of us here, but I'm a Trask guy.  I'm not a Mills guy, he was not productive in college and started only a little over a season's worth of games in three years, Mills's resume is late round/UDFA worthy.  Trask is mid-round worthy.

 

I like Trask because he's a dime dropper and he's a gamer.  I think people who already didn't like him are killing him for his bowl game performance, nevermind he was hyper-efficient all year.  But that bowl game was a travesty from Florida.  That whole team had quit and the bowl was perfunctory for them and he struggled under the circumstances.  A more finicky (or savvy) QB prospect would have opted out but Trask is a real gamer and he wasn't going to quit on his team.

 

I think he's got the silky touch and placement/timing on throws all over the field, especially on boundary side throws outside of the numbers.  I think the game slowed down for him this year and he became a great anticipatory thrower who saw the field so well.  Pitts and especially Grimes were big beneficiaries of his growth this year and his ability to make those anticipatory outside throws against single coverage, especially when he had to sit on them to let the window open or place the ball in an atypical spot.  Less aggressive and skilled QBs than Trask move off of them and don't give them the chance to go up and beat that coverage.  And I think Toney was a huge beneficiary of his accuracy and touch because that guy was just a talented nobody prior to this year.  A disappointing what-might-be when a bad QB like Franks was their starter.  Trask had a mind-meld with him and spoon fed him on those YAC opportunities.

 

I do think he has some ability to move his feet and throw a decent ball off balance and he navigates pocket mud well, belying his lack of athleticism.  He is money when he gets to set his feet.  And he is shockingly effective on designed runs, which he did a lot of this year.  He's slow and has absolutely zero elusiveness or ability to change gaps, but he is decisive and strong and just kind of rinos his way to the sticks through whatever gap he's picked out pre-snap.

 

It blows my mind that Mac Jones is considered a first rounder and Trask is considered a fourth rounder despite the fact Trask outplayed him most of the year and showed way more individual playmaking ability when under duress.  I'm not complaining though, let someone else take Jones in the first and give me Trask in the fourth.

 

 

 

Brad Johnson seems like the perfect comparison to Trask (both have below-average arms but excellent touch)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On another note, I've heard enough from Keim (including this morning) that they are targeting a specific QB on the 2nd day of the draft.  The kicker for me on this was Standig (who I think is the 2nd most plugged in reporter) shifting from they aren't going QB in the draft to they might and even gave a nugget of who he heard they might like:  Davis Mills.  

 

I think its safe to guess they like either Mills or Trask or both of them.

 

Keim added this morning, they aren't going to take a QB just to take one, they have a specific target in mine and will likely do it if they are there.  They (he and Sheehan discussed) which QB would they discard, they both guessed its more likely Kyle but also considered Heinicke in play to be discarded too depending on how training camp went.   So apparently its not QB or bust where they are going to take any flier and roll the dice.  Seems like they have a specific target or two. 

 

 

FWIW - PFF Mike Renner on The Junkies this morning said he thinks Davis Mills will be the 6th QB taken probably in the 2nd.  Doesn't think he will last until the 3rd round.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-biggest-sleepers-2021-nfl-draft-class

 

QB DAVIS MILLS, STANFORD

He may not do much to get you excited, but Mills looks like he’ll be more than capable of operating an NFL offense with the traits he displays. The biggest is easily his quick decision-making. Mills’ 2.39-second average time to throw on non-screens, RPOs and play-action passes was the fourth-fastest in the nation — even edging out Trevor Lawrence. And on such throws, he earned an 84.0 passing grade. While not the most physically gifted, he’s still a former five-star prospect who has made only 10 career starts.

 

[Going Commando]

Wanted to say I'm not surprised to see Jaelan Phillips test so well.  Phillips was the #1 recruit in his high school class (Najee was #2).  Wonder why things went so poorly for him at UCLA?

 

I was kind of waiting for him to start making his way into the first round of mocks.  Felt inevitable.  This is a fairly unproductive edge class, but between Phillips, Paye, Oweh, and Basham, there are four guys in the class who are markedly more athletic than the Ziggy Ansah/Dante Fowler type edge prospects who tend to get picked super high despite their lack of production.

 

And then there is Rosseau, whose stock seems to have dropped a lot over the course of the year despite the fact he was productive the last season he played.

 

Teams are going to be getting edge prospect discounts this year.  Back half of the first and into the second, teams will be getting prospects who they would not have had access to in normal drafts.  We're about to see the rich like Kansas City and Buffalo and Baltimore get new Probowl edges for cheap.

 

I remember draftniks being thirsty for average prospects like Chase Winovich and Brooks Reed as day two picks, and better talents like Quincy Roche and Patrick Jones and Payton Reed and Hamilcar Rashed are getting mocked on day three this year.  ****, we took Ryan Anderson in the second round, that tells you how much more athletic this edge class is than normal.  Kind of feels like we need to capitalize on this despite how good our top two edges are.