2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Redskin21502]

If we got Zaven Collins and Brevin Jordan with our first 2 picks I'd be as happy as when we got Chase last year. It would help us in 2021 and for the next decade. Instant impact and great fits.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

More in-depth stuff on Jamin Davis, seems like a riser and maybe a guy we can trade back for if we have a prospect sitting there at 19 that other teams want. This off-ball LBer class is really good, there's a lot of guys I like. (Lots of LBers good in coverage and better equipped for modern day defenses)

 

 

[mistertim]

Some pretty uninspiring numbers for Rousseau, given that he was supposed to be an athletic freak. Compare his numbers to Sweat, who was close to the same size and is a truly freakish athlete, and he's "meh".

 

Not that measurables trump production or skills. Just a bit surprising. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Est.1974]

Jamin Davis over the other LBs for me, outside of Parsons anyway.

[Koolblue13]

Mac Jones just won and made good players look great. I have never understood knocking him. He's like Brady. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

Brevin Jordan reminds me of Jordan Reed...in good and bad ways (though I think Brevin Jordan is definitely a more sound blocker). Athletic, very good route runner, great hands, will absolutely gash LBs and Safeties when lined up as a receiver, especially on seam routes. But like Reed, he's also injury prone; IIRC he's missed something like 7 or 8 games over his 3 year college career for a variety of injuries.

 

Some similarities -- they are both more quick than fast.  Reed, 4.72, 40 time.  Both threats in the flat.  They can get quickly get open in the flat and are a threat with the ball in their hands. 

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-hurricanes/fl-sp-draft-um-brevin-jordan-20210310-4gzk6j6lejaylfzmks35wu2pjm-story.html

“I’m a running back when I get the ball in my hands,” Jordan said. “You give me the ball, you can give me a bubble, and I’ll take it 15-plus yards every time. You can line me up anywhere on the field. You can line me up outside, in the slot, in the backfield. You can put me at fullback, and I’ll lead block. I’m just a natural playmaker.”

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Jamin Davis over the other LBs for me, outside of Parsons anyway.

Christian Darrisaw/Jamin Davis might be the perfect 1st and 2nd picks for us. Seems to me like Jamin Davis could go in the late 1st early 2nd though. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Mac Jones just won and made good players look great. I have never understood knocking him. He's like Brady. 

 

Nobody is like Brady. Brady is like Brady. Can we please stop bringing him up? Pretty please with sugar on top?

 

I like Mac Jones in general (though I wouldn't spend a high 1st on him) but isn't it also possible that great supporting cast made a good QB look great?

[Skinsinparadise]

lets assume SF takes Lance or Fields.  Atlanta take Fields or Lance or tries to get their own ransom deal?  The team that seems itching the most to do a blockbuster deal is Carolina.    If the idea is to shoot for a Qb next year then we'd want Carolina to make their move this year. 

 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Christian Darrisaw/Jamin Davis might be the perfect 1st and 2nd picks for us. Seems to me like Jamin Davis could go in the late 1st early 2nd though. 

Yep, would be nice to wedge another pick in there somehow.

[Chris 44]

9 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 Seems to me like Jamin Davis could go in the late 1st early 2nd though. 

 

Pulled a list of top 10 LB's. Would love to hear peoples thoughts. Davis has the frame to add more bulk if needed? Werner at 14 on this particular list.

6	Micah Parsons	Penn St.	Jr	LB	1	6-3	245
16	Azeez Ojulari	Georgia	Soph	LB	2	6-3	240
23	Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah	Notre Dame	Sr	LB	3	6-1	215
28	Zaven Collins	Tulsa	Jr	LB	4	6-4	260
33	Joseph Ossai	Texas	Jr	LB	5	6-4	253
44	Jamin Davis	Kentucky	Jr	LB	6	6-4	234
50	Nick Bolton	Missouri	Jr	LB	7	6-0	232
75	Baron Browning	Ohio St.	Sr	LB	8	6-3	240
76	Dylan Moses	Alabama	Sr	LB	9	6-3	240
81	Chazz Surratt	North Carolina	Sr	LB	10	6-2	225

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

On 3/28/2021 at 8:43 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Collins is a contested catch guy indeed.  but he's not just that.  He's a vertical threat down the field.  Similar on that count to Terrace Marshall.  For a dude that's 6 '4 with nice bulk with long arms but also a freak as for the vertical and his 4.4 speed -- I'd look at him potentially more in the mold of tall freaks who can run ala Metcalf and Claypool.  Not saying he will be as good but they would fit his athletic profile better. 

 

I could see Nico as more of a Claypool.  I can get behind that.  I can't see Nico as DK Metcalf.  Metcalf showed more separation in college.  Nico doesn't show on tape the elite 1-2 step burst that Metcalf has.

 

On 3/28/2021 at 8:43 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

He had almost 20 YPC.  This isn't N'Keal Harry type part 2 at least in terms of attributes.  He can play physical that's for sure part of his game -- run blocking-contested catches.  But he has another weapon in his arsenal.   That is, he can threaten defenses verticially.  He's another dude I'd like if he's there in the third.  I don't think he's the perfect prospect -- awhile ago I stated what I like and what I didn't. 

 

I mean, Pierre Garcon was physical, ran a 4.4, but couldn't threaten defenses vertically.  He wasn't a down field threat.  All of his good separation moves were intermediate and short.  I need to see more separation from Nico.  Which he doesn't really have due to small sample size and 2 years ago.  He had, what, 36 or 37 catches his final season?  Started watching some of his cutups and still not separation vertically.  

 

N'Keal Harry is less athletic, but he also used his physical strength to win during routes at the college level.  He's since struggled to win that way in the NFL, maybe if he was more athletic he could?  Nico doesn't appear to use his physical strength to put corners off balance.  There's not much of Nico's game that's refined.  Whoever drafts him is going to need to be patient.

 

On 3/28/2021 at 8:43 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

My main interest in him was to see his pro day numbers to see if his vertical ability would translate speed wise to the pros because if not I wasn't as into him if he was just a pure old school Dez Bryant physical contested catch dude.

 

Dez Bryant wasn't the best route runner, but he was good at double moves.  Longer developing routes were how he separated.

 

I don't see Nico Collins doing that in college.  Granted, it's hard to gauge, because his QB was bad.  Or well, terrible.  The best argument in favor of Nico is that he would've been able to show more if his QB wasn't Shea Patterson.

[mistertim]

I haven't watched much of Darrisaw yet but one thing I've read in multiple scouting reports (for what it's worth, which may not be much) is that he's not always a high effort guy. He follows his assignment but doesn't really look for guys to block and is inconsistent when it comes to finishing. I'm planning on watching some of him myself soon, but for those of you who already have, is there any truth to this?

[Chris 44]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I haven't watched much of Darrisaw yet but one thing I've read in multiple scouting reports (for what it's worth, which may not be much) is that he's not always a high effort guy. He follows his assignment but doesn't really look for guys to block and is inconsistent when it comes to finishing. I'm planning on watching some of him myself soon, but for those of you who already have, is there any truth to this?

He has always seemed like a high effort type of guy to me and I think the "finishing" aspect just hasn't necessarily been engrained in him yet. Again I dont see it as him not wanting to, but more of him not having that part of his game instilled in him. IMO its very coachable due to what I view as his good work ethic.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Some breakdowns of about 15 of Darrisaw's plays for those who have time. 

 

[mhd24]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

lets assume SF takes Lance or Fields.  Atlanta take Fields or Lance or tries to get their own ransom deal?  The team that seems itching the most to do a blockbuster deal is Carolina.    If the idea is to shoot for a Qb next year then we'd want Carolina to make their move this year. 

 

 

 

 

 

Atlanta isn't trading within its division.  It is not helping Carolina in any way.  Atlanta either takes a QB, Pitts (consensus seems to be emerging that's he's a tier unto himself), or trades down with Denver (who takes the QB).  

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I haven't watched much of Darrisaw yet but one thing I've read in multiple scouting reports (for what it's worth, which may not be much) is that he's not always a high effort guy. He follows his assignment but doesn't really look for guys to block and is inconsistent when it comes to finishing. I'm planning on watching some of him myself soon, but for those of you who already have, is there any truth to this?

 

I like Darrisaw.  But, I said something similar here months back before I started reading some other mock drafter types say the same.  I got slammed a little by a couple of people here I respect for having that take.  So i posted some clips to show what i mean.

 

I thought he was a good run blocker but also has moments when he wasn't.  i noticed for example on some runs he didn't find a dude to block and just watched the run and in some other cases he didn't really finish off the block.  It didn't happen a lot but it was noticeable the occasional time I saw it.   On the other hand, he has some really fun Scherff like highlight blocks on the 2nd level.   I think his potential is great as a run blocker but I don't think he was flawless on that front.

 

As a pass blocker, he was good but sometimes loses contain, defenders can sometimes run around him.  I recall posting a couple of clips on that front.

 

In short, I think he's ultra talented.  He looks the part including having long arms.  He's probably my top want at 19 even though i've probably slammed him the hardest here as for perceived flaws.  But as I said when I gave a longish take on him -- if the dude was a stud/flawless prospect, he'd be slam dunk going top 10.  The fact that you can question his play at least a little opens him up as a possibility at 19.

[mistertim]

16 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Some breakdowns of about 15 of Darrisaw's plays for those who have time. 

 

 

Thanks. Looks like a bit more of a finesse player than a mauler...though he does seem to have good strength and you can see him pushing guys out of the way at times. That may be partially why some people have said he's not a super high effort guy? He plays sound, assignment based football but doesn't seem like a guy who really play with a nasty streak and just loves destroying people. 

 

None of that means he isn't a very good prospect. He's obviously extremely athletic an you can tell in some of those snaps. Technique-wise the guy in the video talked about it...but he seems to lunge a bit when he initiates contact with pass rushers. He also pointed out how he opened his hips way early and I was wondering how susceptible that would make him to inside moves and then he showed some and it wasn't good. Footwork overall looks nimble but he can get narrow during his kick step and slide.

 

But that's stuff that can be coached up. The effort/mean streak stuff can't. But again, I don't think it's completely necessary. Good to have, but not a must-have. Joe Thomas was a pretty quiet guy who played incredibly sound technical football and is a future HoFer.

 

I'd be good with him at 19.

[Dark Acre]

Mac Jones to S.F. could make sense if S.F. really wants him and thinks that he'd be gone by 12.  Not that they'd take him at 3, but from there, they can wait until draft day and gauge how far back down they can trade, to recoup some lost capital, and still get him.  That's some serious gambling, but stranger things have happened.

[Skinsinparadise]

50 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I could see Nico as more of a Claypool.  I can get behind that.  I can't see Nico as DK Metcalf.  Metcalf showed more separation in college.  Nico doesn't show on tape the elite 1-2 step burst that Metcalf has.

 

 

Let me warn you when I get boxed into a longish debate about a player for better or worse, that player often ultimately seems to get drafted by us.  So if you don't want Collins you might want to stop after this post. 

 

I mentioned Metcalf and Claypool from the context of athleticism and size.  Metcalf I recall wasn't universally embraced on the draft thread before the draft.   He had his share of critics.  I recall it well.  I didn't push Metcalf before the draft but I didn't dislike him either the way others here did.  I recall it well.  I recall @stevemcqueen1 was cool with Metcalf.  

 

My take on Nico is actually similar to my feelings about Metcalf in general.  That is, I am cool with Nico, waver on him some, just as I did on Metcalf.  I didn't consider back then Metcalf being one of my guys nor do I like at Nico as one of my favs before the draft.   But I was cool if they took Metcalf as i would be on Nico.  I agree Metcalf and Nico are different players.   Metcalf being the better player and bigger freak of nature.   But they have one thing in common -- that is, they are vertical threats. 

 

I just read PFF's take on him just now.  I see him similar to them.  Among the routes he runs he grades the highest going deep. He's also a good contested catch guy.   They don't comment on his run blocking but my take is he's good at it.  

 

His weaknesses are he is a build up speed guy versus being quick out of his stance.   He's somewhat the reverse of Brevin Jordan.  Jordan comes quick out of his stance and is elusive and dangerous in the flat.  Nico is sluggish on that count in the flat.  Nico is a next gear type - potential for big plays and contested catches-red zone.

 

As for him not seperating, I've seen him seperate with 4-5 yards to spare on some of his longish TDs.  But if you didn't see that, that's cool.  I don't care enough to argue about it.  I'd agree that if I am scouting him, I'd want to feel comfortable that he can project as a dude who can seperate on go-post routes-deep crossers, etc for me to be into him. 

 

I think he's impressive as a contested catch guy but like you i don't love WRs who are purely about that.  I ironically recall ripping Gandy-Golden on the draft thread when I first watched him.   I didn't love his seperation skills.  But others liked him and I talked myself into him later on.  He was never one of my guys though.  Generally, I like WRs who can seperate well.  I think Nico has the potential to be more than just being about contested catches. 

 

But I don't love the dude.  The guy who i really feel absolutely comfortable with as a deep threat and is a big dude as well is Terrace Marshall.  I'd certanly consider Marshall to be one of my guys so to speak.