2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Fresh8686]

Elijah is tough and has an edge to him like Antonio Brown, but I don’t think he has AB’s level of burst. I really like Elijah, I just don’t see him as much of an outside guy and there are so many good slot receivers in this class. 
 

I’ve got to watch more games but I’m really liking Jaelon Darden’s athletic traits and character. I feel like his best football could easily be ahead of him.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@Skinsinparadise 

Elijah reminds me of a young Antonio Brown. He’s from down our way too. Would be excited to nab him in the second or third if there, most likely would have to be 51, I think. Big fan. 

 

I've been touting him for awhile.  He's not a big dude.  But he can seperate and can motor.  For me he's the best tracker of the deep ball in this draft.    He makes catches all around the field -- short, intermediate and deep.  And he might have the best hands in the draft short of Chase and D. Smith.  

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@Skinsinparadise @Fresh8686

When I see him play, I see AB, I cant unsee it. Lol. He plays way bigger and stronger than his size. Although yes the slot is were he’ll start I think he’s got the ability to play outside at some point do to his play strength and get off. We’d use him all over. He’s polished as well, takes pride in his craft, makes Cb’s look silly sometimes. He may not have AB’s burst, even though I think his burst is just fine, but he’s got a lot to like. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

Elijah is tough and has an edge to him like Antonio Brown, but I don’t think he has AB’s level of burst. I really like Elijah, I just don’t see him as much of an outside guy and there are so many good slot receivers in this class. 

 

 

I like four slot receivers a lot:  Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, K. Toney, T. Marshall.  Then to me there is a drop off but another strata of good slot guys like Rogers, Eskridge, Darden, etc.

 

I think Elijah to me has the highest floor among those 4 receivers.  Rondale and K. Toney's style of play has led to injuries.  Some concerns about Toney's character.  I like both Toney and Rondale better as YAC guys.  They are both super special on that front.   But Elijah has the better hands and ball tracking skills IMO.   I might be Terrace Marshall's biggest fan here but I don't find him as polished as Elijah and his hands aren't as good.

 

Elijah is explosive.  He's a YAC guy.  He's a deep ball guy.  He has glue as hands.  He's a contested catch guy.  For a slot receiver, he's about as complete as it gets.    IMO he will be special.  Will see. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Dark Acre]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been touting him for awhile.  He's not a big dude.  But he can seperate and can motor.  For me he's the best tracker of the deep ball in this draft.    He makes catches all around the field -- short, intermediate and deep.  And he might have the best hands in the draft short of Chase and D. Smith.  

Ironically, we have two guys named Chase who have pretty good hands -- one good enough to touch the ball on every offensive play and one on D who's good enough to advance fumbles he recovers without causing some of us a heart attack.

 

You know what winning a lot of contested catches means?  Dude ain't getting open.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is a draft guy for pro football network below.   If this happened I am guessing everyone on this thread would hate it except me and @stevemcqueen1 unless i am missing a person or two?

 

Etienne wouldn't be my top choice here but I wouldn't hate it at all. 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

 

 

You know what winning a lot of contested catches means?  Dude ain't getting open.

 

I get the point but nope IMO that doesn't what it mean.   You can be both good at seperating and making contesting catches.  One doesn't exclude the other.  Often the top receivers in this league are good at both. 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

42 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like four slot receivers a lot:  Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, K. Toney, T. Marshall.  Then to me there is a drop off but another strata of good slot guys like Rogers, Eskridge, Darden, etc.

 

I think Elijah to me has the highest floor among those 4 receivers.  Rondale and K. Toney's style of play has led to injuries.  Some concerns about Toney's character.  I like both Toney and Rondale better as YAC guys.  They are both super special on that front.   But Elijah has the better hands and ball tracking skills IMO.   I might be Terrace Marshall's biggest fan here but I don't find him as polished as Elijah and his hands aren't as good.

 

Haven't watched Marshall, but of the rest:

 

1) Elijah Moore

big gap

2) Toney

3) Rondale Moore

 

Elijah is a much better route runner than either, at all levels.

[RWJ]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is a draft guy for pro football network below.   If this happened I am guessing everyone on this thread would hate it except me and @stevemcqueen1 unless i am missing a person or two?

 

Etienne wouldn't be my top choice here but I wouldn't hate it at all. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting, SIP.  Never watched any of his work.  Have been focus on Alabama's Harris.  You would have 2 Antonio Gibson's on your team.  Tough to stop.  Speed hurts the opponent when it runs and catches the ball against a defense.  

[86 Snyder]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is a draft guy for pro football network below.   If this happened I am guessing everyone on this thread would hate it except me and @stevemcqueen1 unless i am missing a person or two?

 

Etienne wouldn't be my top choice here but I wouldn't hate it at all. 

 

 

 

 

 

Why?  Gibson is already better and has an incredible ceiling.

 

Hate, hate, double hate, loath entirely.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Anyone who can help us score TD’s or score TD’s himself by the pass or run is an option

 for this anemic O.  I wouldnt hate Etienne or Harris if we choose to go that route. If he’s our  BPA, I can live with that. We’d also prob try and lean more heavily on the run and pound people into submission. There are lots of ways to get to the end zone, as long as you get there.

[86 Snyder]

3 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Anyone who can help us score TD’s or score TD’s himself by the pass or run is an option

 for this anemic O.  I wouldnt hate Etienne or Harris if we choose to go that route. If he’s our  BPA, I can live with that. We’d also prob try and lean more heavily on the run and pound people into submission. There are lots of ways to get to the end zone, as long as you get there.

 

I have no problem adding another weapon at RB, but not in the first two rounds definitely amd probably not in the 3rd either.  Gibson has tons of potential and we have too many holes for that kind of luxury spend.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Teams really need more than just 1 good RB in today's NFL

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@86 Snyder I hear you, but a weapon is a weapon. If you prefer Javonte in the 2nd or Carter in the third, that’s fine. To each their own. That’s all, if we go RB at all. 
An argument can definitely be made though. I don’t see it as a luxury pick, we don’t have an RB 2. 
For example:

1st Etienne/2nd Elijah Moore/3rd Dillon Radunz/ 3rd Saratt 

or

Darrisaw/Brevin Jordan/

Micheal Carter/Eskridge

or 

Zaven Collins/Javonte/Tommy Tremble/Carman 

or 

Batemon/Javonte/Walker Little/Wallace

 

lots of ways you can go is all. Not sure they’ll draft an RB at all but I wouldnt hate having a weapon like Etienne.

[86 Snyder]

14 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Teams really need more than just 1 good RB in today's NFL

 

Absolutely but drafting a running back in the first round is almost never a good idea.  I mean they have to be Barkley,CMC, Elliott level and even then it's not the best way to build a team.

 

It'd be par for the course though since we take guards at 5 lol.  Imagine if we had Leonard Williams amd Derwin James instead of Scherff/Payne.  Sorry, I can't stop talking about Scherff lol.  It's similarly bad team building though to take a RB in the 1st.  And I feel the 2nd is off limits too unless you have a major need.  

 

Really we just need to upgrade the player in Barber's role.

[Fresh8686]

@COWBOY-KILLA- @Skinsinparadise

 

I agree with all of your points and his burst is more than adequate when paired with all the little things Elijah does so well. He’s a high polish cluster trait guy that translates very well to the NFL and is the top slot receiver in that respect. The problem for us IMO is that 19 is too high for him and he won’t be there when we pick in the 2nd. Which is why I’m looking at Darden in the 3rd with his elite level explosiveness and surprising strength for his frame. He’s also shown great adjustment and ball tracking ability in clutch moments that bump him up when paired with his athletic profile. 
 

Also, I’m good with Etienne if he’s our pick at 19. He’ll be one of the few true blue chip talents left when it’s our turn. He would flourish in our system. 

[86 Snyder]

5 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

@86 Snyder I hear you, but a weapon is a weapon. If you prefer Javonte in the 2nd or Carter in the third, that’s fine. To each their own. That’s all, if we go RB at all. 
An argument can definitely be made though. I don’t see it as a luxury pick, we don’t have an RB 2. 
For example:

1st Etienne/2nd Elijah Moore/3rd Dillon Radunz/ 3rd Saratt 

or

Darrisaw/Brevin Jordan/

Micheal Carter/Eskridge

or 

Zaven Collins/Elijah Moore/Tommy Tremble/Eichenberg

or 

Batemon/Javonte/Walker Little/Wallace

 

lots of ways you can go is all. Not sure they’ll draft an RB at all but I wouldnt hate having a weapon like Etienne.

 

It doesn't help that I don't like Etienne much but even if it were Harris or Williams, both of whim I like quite a bit, I don't think it's right for this team.  See my other post above but I gotta tell you, I think anyone advocating spending valuable resources at RB is missing how special Gibson could be.

[method man]

The reason it would be stupid to take a running back in round 1 is even if they do end up producing on their rookie contract, with the 1st round pedigree, you then have to pay them big $ on the second contract, which is almost always a terrible idea.

 

This is why I am not a fan of taking players at devalued positions in the early to mid 1st. Heck, we are going through it with Scherff where we have decided to pay a guard $18M a year.

[86 Snyder]

1 minute ago, method man said:

The reason it would be stupid to take a running back in round 1 is even if they do end up producing on their rookie contract, with the 1st round pedigree, you then have to pay them big $ on the second contract, which is almost always a terrible idea.

 

This is why I am not a fan of taking players at devalued positions in the early to mid 1st. Heck, we are going through it with Scherff where we have decided to pay a guard $18M a year.

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

22 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Absolutely but drafting a running back in the first round is almost never a good idea. 

Yup.  I'm against it as a team building philosophy.

 

22 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

I mean they have to be Barkley,CMC, Elliott level and even then it's not the best way to build a team.

 

Not even.  CMC is the only one that looked better after their rookie season.  Elliott's decline has been slow but gradual.  His best season was his rookie year.  Saquon's best season was also his rookie year.  The Giants GM just put out an awkward quote that I don't even believe, but why put it out, in that they'll need to have discussions on whether to pick up his 5th year option.

 

Lately, the best RB's in the league have been drafted in the 2nd round.

 

Quote

Imagine if we had Leonard Williams amd Darwin James instead of Scherff/Payne.

 

We'd be worse.  When was the last time Derwin James was great?  2018.  The time before that?  2015 (freshman year of college).

 

I get (and am with you) Leonard Williams over Scherff in terms of hindsight.  But Derwin is always getting serious injuries and then takes like a full season to return to form.  At a certain point he won't anymore.  Derwin has played in 21 games.  Payne has played in 47. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

25 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Really we just need to upgrade the player in Barber's role.

 

Barber was actually very good in his role. The problem was his lack of versatility. He couldn't do anything else besides his primary role.

His role was short yardage. He was was actually very effective in that.

But ideally, you want a short yardage back, who is at least average in other aspects. But while Barber was great in short yardage, he was pretty useless in other areas.

He took up a roster spot with a pretty small role.
So I'd agree in upgrading him, but only in the sense of diversity of skills, and as long as the replacement back was at least as effective as Barber in short yardage.

[86 Snyder]

8 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Yup.  I'm against it as a team building philosophy.

 

 

Not even.  CMC is the only one that looked better after their rookie season.  Elliott's decline has been slow but gradual.  His best season was his rookie year.  Saquon's best season was also his rookie year.  The Giants GM just put out an awkward quote that I don't even believe, but why put it out, in that they'll need to have discussions on whether to pick up his 5th year option.

 

Lately, the best RB's in the league have been drafted in the 2nd round.

 

 

We'd be worse.  When was the last time Derwin James was great?  2018.  The time before that?  2015 (freshman year of college).

 

I get (and am with you) Leonard Williams over Scherff in terms of hindsight.  But Derwin is always getting serious injuries and then takes like a full season to return to form.  At a certain point he won't anymore.  Derwin has played in 21 games.  Payne has played in 47. 

 

Regarding RBs, I was speaking in terms of talent and not outcome, so we are in agreement.

 

Was conveniently ignoring James injuries and again just thinking of talent.  Its dumb but maybe he doesn't get hurt here.

 

Don't think we need hindsight for Williams over Scherff.  I had been hoping he'd fall and thought it a pipedream.  Then he did and I had to yell at the TV for an hour.

4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Barber was actually very good in his role. The problem was his lack of versatility. He couldn't do anything else besides his primary role.

His role was short yardage. He was was actually very effective in that.

But ideally, you want a short yardage back, who is at least average in other aspects. But while Barber was great in short yardage, he was pretty useless in other areas.

He took up a roster spot with a pretty small role.
So I'd agree in upgrading him, but only in the sense of diversity of skills, and as long as the replacement back was at least as effective as Barber in short yardage.

 

Dude Barber is ass.  Imagine having a competant player in that grinder role.  Not mincing words.  He's ass.

[method man]

4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Barber was actually very good in his role. The problem was his lack of versatility. He couldn't do anything else besides his primary role.

His role was short yardage. He was was actually very effective in that.

But ideally, you want a short yardage back, who is at least average in other aspects. But while Barber was great in short yardage, he was pretty useless in other areas.

He took up a roster spot with a pretty small role.
So I'd agree in upgrading him, but only in the sense of diversity of skills, and as long as the replacement back was at least as effective as Barber in short yardage.

 

He is a good pass protector as well. Probably the best they have there in the backfield. I don't like it but I get why he is on the team. They need to replace Bryce Love with a true stopgap starter at RB

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@86 Snyder @Alcoholic Zebra

 I totally get the devalued position and how good Gordon could be, agreed on both counts. I was one of his biggest advocates early in the season that he needed significantly more touches. I’m not pushing or hoping we go RB in round 1.
 

All I was saying his that if the FO picked say Etienne for example, I wouldn’t lose my marbles because he is supremely talented and can help our Offense in a myriad of ways.  It’s all about what they envision for our O, and I don’t think we go that route. But he will most likely be there at 19, and these conversations are def being had by our FO.