Welcome to the Redskins Antonio Gibson, RB/WR Memphis

[bonhommelemec]

Gibson reminds me a little of Devonta Freeman. Powerful, quick but faster.  Also, Earl Campbell.  I by no means am saying that he will be as good as him but his physique and weight are somewhat similar.  It is hard to tackle him.

 

I am very ecstatic that we got him. With Haskins taking a big step by stringing together a couple of good games, I have confidence that he will turn out to be a really good quarterback.

 

So, I think we'll surprise some people this season. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:28 PM, Skin'emAlive said:

I have a hard time calling anyone an H back if they aren’t proficient at blocking. I see Gibson as a modern version of Cordarrell Patterson

 

H-Back is an alignment, not a defined role.  Checks into 6 man protections are and blocking outside zone runs are one thing, but if he is frequently being schemed to block from an H-Back alignment, then he"s being misused.

 

H-Back is the best position for him because it's easier to set up or motion into runs from that spot than the slot.  He should be running the ball a lot.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Round 3: No. 66 overall — Antonio Gibson, RB, Memphis

Scout 1: “A tough one for me because when I scouted Antonio Gibson halfway through the season, I basically had a priority free agent grade on him. I was not impressed with him as a wide receiver. He played tailback mostly late in the year. I know he ran below a 4.4 40-time at the combine (4.39), but I didn’t ever think that speed showed up on tape. For us, we were talking about him in the back-half of the fourth. For me, it was very rich in the third round for what we viewed as a franchise. He’ll be a tailback. That’s going to be obviously where his future is. And if he’s a second or third tailback, change-of-pace guy that can return kicks for you, he’s going to have some value there. He’ll be a coverage player on special teams unit, but I don’t ever see him being a No. 1 tailback and maybe a player with no position. Hopefully, Derrius (Guice) can be healthy because (Gibson) would be a good complement to him, but the third round was pretty rich for me.”

 

Scout 2: “Good, good player. I’d say maybe a tad high. Because I think he’s kind of a role player. Extremely talented at both receiver and running back. I kind of call them a little bit of like a poor version of Cordarrelle Patterson. Cordarrelle was that kind of player who played wideout but played a little bit of running back to. I think Antonio is a raw, good athlete that’s just going to have to find a home. I’m not sure he’ll be able to really fully hit that versatility as an NFL player. I thought he was a fourth-rounder, maybe fifth. He’s probably gonna have to compete and battle at one position and be really good at that. In an NFL game just seems like every play is so important. You might only get 55 or so (offensive snaps) in the game. It’s important trying to establish your offense within the game. These guys that do a lot of things it’s tough to fit them in during the course of a game.

 

“Maybe (Patriots head coach Bill) Belichick has been the best at that but, but a lot of times coaches don’t have the time or the patience to play a guy at three different positions and get it all coached up and then that guy has an effect that Sunday. It just always looks and sounds better than it turns out. Because once you try to coach it and accomplish it to me, it’s far more involved and complicated than when you’re drafting. ‘Yeah, this guy could play wideout, he could play tight end. He could play running back; he could throw the ball on the reverse.’ To me, that’s a little bit like (Cardinals first-round hybrid linebacker) Isaiah Simmons. You know, like, this guy that does everything but you know, guys, just it doesn’t really happen in the NFL. The game is not played that way. I don’t know.”

 

Scout 3: “Gibson is an interesting guy because he’s probably gonna help him immediately on third down. But he’s got upside to be an every-down back in the league. They’ve got a unique situation there, too, with all those backs. I’ll be curious to see how they use him, but I would think that he immediately helps in the passing game. That’s pretty good value (at 66) for that skillset. He can do a lot of stuff which is positive, obviously. Coaches get enamored with versatility and having a role and so if you take a guy like that third round, there’s obviously a role for him in mind.”

 

Scout 4: “Antonio Gibson at 66 a little high for me, but I understand why they did it. Rivera has had Christian McCaffrey. Ron likes those guys who they can get the ball to in different spots. Gibson’s receiver tape is not great, but his RB tape is. The combine helped him, but not a third-round pick for me.”

 

Source 1: “Loved him, except that’s a little bit too rich for a guy that doesn’t have a room, OK, like, where are you going to put him at? Wide receiver? Is he a running back? What room is he going to? OK, he’s gonna be a slash type player. OK. That’s fine too but just a little bit too rich for me to take in the third round. I think he would have been their fourth round, fifth round, because he has a short baseline. It really it’s a one-year baseline, really.

 

“That’s a good pickup because he could do a lot of things because now you got a guy. OK, now you go two backs in the backfield. Maybe you put Gibson right outside the tackle box. Is he a back or a receiver? What package are you going to be in? How are you going to cover that? You want to be in nickel or base. So it could be confusing for defenses, and then you move him to the backfield or morph into no backs and go five-wide. You can’t say he’s an accomplished runner. You can’t he’s an accomplished receiver. He does some things well. Is he that elusive? No, he’s a power dude. He’s a one-cut runner.”

 

https://theathletic.com/1805658/2020/05/11/scouts-view-talent-evaluators-reveal-analysis-on-redskins-2020-class/

[Est.1974]

This pick will invariably get heavily judged based on him going #66 with our second pick in the draft. And I can see long comparisons drawn against how the OT fairs that we passed on to take Gibson.

[Stormy]

I read this article on our draft, and Gibson in particular, yesterday, and could not have been less impressed by the "insiders" observations. I think stevemcqueen summarized it nicely elsewhere, but there is just a bunch of circular reasoning "scoutspeak" in these tidbits, most of which seems to be based in some pretty old school observations and evaluations. I think Gibson's potential versatility is a real evaluation block for these insiders, as opposed to a strength. I think that is going to prove to be a shortsighted perspective of a guy like Gibson, especially if Turner finds ways to get him on the field in advantageous formations, and ways to design getting the ball into his hands with some room to run. 

 

I look forward to coming back to these evals in a year or so, to see if these guys were prescient or blinded by their biases.

[Est.1974]

25 minutes ago, Stormy said:

I think Gibson's potential versatility is a real evaluation block for these insiders, as opposed to a strength. I think that is going to prove to be a shortsighted perspective of a guy like Gibson, especially if Turner finds ways to get him on the field in advantageous formations

no doubt he has the potential to be very dynamic under Turner. 
 

pick #66 becomes irrelevant I guess if he does. will be an interesting one to look back on in 9-12 months time.

Edited May 12, 2020 by UK SKINS FAN 74

[nonniey]

7 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

no doubt he has the potential to be very dynamic under Turner. 
 

pick #66 becomes irrelevant I guess if he does. will be an interesting one to look back on in 9-12 months time.

I don't think it becomes irrelevant unless Charles outperforms Jones and the other OTs taken in the 3rd round (the assumption being that we could have had Gibson a round later).

[Est.1974]

15 hours ago, nonniey said:

I don't think it becomes irrelevant unless Charles outperforms Jones and the other OTs taken in the 3rd round (the assumption being that we could have had Gibson a round later).

could we have had Gibson in a later round though? It was reported after the draft 2 other teams had him on their boards to select in the later 3rd, one of those teams being from our division.

[Anselmheifer]

On 5/12/2020 at 8:57 PM, nonniey said:

I don't think it becomes irrelevant unless Charles outperforms Jones and the other OTs taken in the 3rd round (the assumption being that we could have had Gibson a round later).

 

BPA. We can grab a 1st round OT next year. 

 

 

Watch that 1st play. For some reason, it really reminded me of Chris Thompson. I think that's maybe what we should be thinking about here. A bigger, even more explosive Chris Thompson. Does anybody know if Gibson can pass block at all? Hard to be a 3rd down back without that component. 

 

Edit: Also, I'm not sure I've previously seen these Senior Bowl tweets. 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/memphis-antonio-gibson-pulls-barry-sanders-esque-spin-move-on-brilliant-run/ar-BBZkdno

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Anselmheifer

[Vanguard]

He is a steal.  Expect big things.

[Voice_of_Reason]

If the combination of Gibson, AGG S. Simms and McKissick mean the end of the Irrelevant Quinn experiment, I'm a happy guy. Yes, I know some of these guys are RBs and not WRs. 

 

The 'Skins need the "try hard coachable but athletically limited guys" who were favorites of the last regime absolutely purged from the roster as fast as possible.  You can have a few as role player/ST guys, but if you count on them for anything else, you rise to the level of their talent, which is ~7-9.  

[carex]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

If the combination of Gibson, AGG S. Simms and McKissick mean the end of the Irrelevant Quinn experiment, I'm a happy guy. Yes, I know some of these guys are RBs and not WRs. 

 

The 'Skins need the "try hard coachable but athletically limited guys" who were favorites of the last regime absolutely purged from the roster as fast as possible.  You can have a few as role player/ST guys, but if you count on them for anything else, you rise to the level of their talent, which is ~7-9.  

 

I didn't think Quinn was regarded as a try hard guy.  But Quinn will probably be competing for 5th or 6th WR

[Vanguard]

45 minutes ago, carex said:

 

I didn't think Quinn was regarded as a try hard guy.  But Quinn will probably be competing for 5th or 6th WR

I think he has reliable hands.  Use him in the red zone.  Not really a breakaway speed guy.

[Conn]

58 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I think he has reliable hands.  Use him in the red zone.  Not really a breakaway speed guy.

 

He has an extremely difficult time getting open and doesn't have the size or contested catch ability to make up for it, I don't think putting him in the most condensed, congested part of the field to get lost in traffic helps us. Sims showed some nice ability to separate and make difficult, traditionally low percentage catches in the red zone, so hopefully his emergence and our draft will push Quinn further into irrelevance.

[Malapropismic Depository]

People joke about us bein the Tide-Skins, or similar nicknames from Ohio State, V-Tech,  or LSU.

But our offense may have the nickname "Aggies" , puttin up numbers with both AGG and AG

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 hours ago, carex said:

 

I didn't think Quinn was regarded as a try hard guy.  But Quinn will probably be competing for 5th or 6th WR

Quinn was the quintessential athletically limited, coachable and "give maximum effort" guys Jay loved.  And that's not unique to Jay.  Coaches love thee guys.  

 

The problem is if you count on them as anything other than role-payers, your're limiting your team.  

 

Quinn went into last training camp as the starter at the slot receiver position.  If I had the time I would find the articles and quotes stating that.

 

In 2017, Ryan Grant went into the year as the #2 WR.  In whatever season it was, Rob Kelly went in as the defacto starter.  

 

This was a huge problem.  

 

Quinn shouldn't be on the roster.  Even as the 5th or 6th receiver position if at all possible.  He doesn't really have the athleticism to be a standout ST player, he doesn't really have the ability to be a standout receiver.  

[carex]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Quinn was the quintessential athletically limited, coachable and "give maximum effort" guys Jay loved.  And that's not unique to Jay.  Coaches love thee guys.  

 

The problem is if you count on them as anything other than role-payers, your're limiting your team.  

 

Quinn went into last training camp as the starter at the slot receiver position.  If I had the time I would find the articles and quotes stating that.

 

In 2017, Ryan Grant went into the year as the #2 WR.  In whatever season it was, Rob Kelly went in as the defacto starter.  

 

This was a huge problem.  

 

 

 

 

 

I'm looking around and I don't see this.  He led all college football in receptions, his being there as Mr Irrelevant was a couple round drop from predictions.  I know he was supposed to be the starting slot receiver, but Sims seems like he beat him out that's why I say 5th or 6th

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

29 minutes ago, carex said:

 

I'm looking around and I don't see this.  He led all college football in receptions, his being there as Mr Irrelevant was a couple round drop from predictions.  I know he was supposed to be the starting slot receiver, but Sims seems like he beat him out that's why I say 5th or 6th

So what about leading college football in receptions?  Colt Brennan set a million records while at Hawaii, and he didn't have an NFL arm and couldn't play a lick.  

 

Quinn was a Jay favorite, and even though he spent his entire 2018 season on IR, he was given the starting slot job before training camp.  Every podcast at the time and radio show, somebody would ask why he was given the starting job before there was any competition, given he had like 4 catches and 2 IR stints in 2018.

 

The answer was because Jay liked him and thought he could replace Crowder's productivity.  He was wrong. 

 

The previous regime, which includes Jay and Bruce, loved these value guys who were very coachable and did what they were supposed to do even though they might be physically limited.   Jay loved them because he wanted guys who he could trust to get to the right spot at the right time, and Bruce loved them because they were "cheap and available." 

 

The problem was they weren't actually good.

 

Sims broke into the starting lineup later in the season.  I can't really remember if Quinn was hurt again or not.  But he finally started really getting opportunities in the last 4 or 5 games if memory serves. 

 

At this point, McLaurin as the #1, and S. Sims in the slot are as sure fire bets as you can get.  I don't know if AGG is already projected as the other starter, or if there will be a competition with him, Harmon and others.  My guess is there will be competitive competition for that WR spot.  

 

Quinn doesn't have the athletic abilities to really excel in the NFL.  On good teams, he doesn't make the roster because he' can't help on ST and he's a good enough WR.  On last year's ream he was the starting slot WR going into the season.  THAT tells you everything you need to know about the organization.  

 

I also don't know if you're going to have the luxury of 6 WRs.  You're going to have at least Guice, AP, Gibson and McKissic as almost locks, and if Love is actually recovered, he's going to get a spot too because he has mad talent if healthy. I don't know if a healthy Love bumps one of the others from the roster.  I kindof doubt it.  

 

Obviously, injury can change that.  But if you carry 5 RBs, with 2 of them being dual-threat guys in Gibson and McKissic, who I assume both can play ST, then you might only roll with 5 WRs and 3 TEs to get to the somewhat "normal" 13 skill position players.

[carex]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So what about leading college football in receptions?  Colt Brennan set a million records while at Hawaii, and he didn't have an NFL arm and couldn't play a lick.  

 

Quinn was a Jay favorite, and even though he spent his entire 2018 season on IR, he was given the starting slot job before training camp.  Every podcast at the time and radio show, somebody would ask why he was given the starting job before there was any competition, given he had like 4 catches and 2 IR stints in 2018.

 

The answer was because Jay liked him and thought he could replace Crowder's productivity.  He was wrong. 

 

The previous regime, which includes Jay and Bruce, loved these value guys who were very coachable and did what they were supposed to do even though they might be physically limited.   Jay loved them because he wanted guys who he could trust to get to the right spot at the right time, and Bruce loved them because they were "cheap and available." 

 

The problem was they weren't actually good.

 

Sims broke into the starting lineup later in the season.  I can't really remember if Quinn was hurt again or not.  But he finally started really getting opportunities in the last 4 or 5 games if memory serves. 

 

At this point, McLaurin as the #1, and S. Sims in the slot are as sure fire bets as you can get.  I don't know if AGG is already projected as the other starter, or if there will be a competition with him, Harmon and others.  My guess is there will be competitive competition for that WR spot.  

 

Quinn doesn't have the athletic abilities to really excel in the NFL.  On good teams, he doesn't make the roster because he' can't help on ST and he's a good enough WR.  On last year's ream he was the starting slot WR going into the season.  THAT tells you everything you need to know about the organization.  

 

I also don't know if you're going to have the luxury of 6 WRs.  You're going to have at least Guice, AP, Gibson and McKissic as almost locks, and if Love is actually recovered, he's going to get a spot too because he has mad talent if healthy. I don't know if a healthy Love bumps one of the others from the roster.  I kindof doubt it.  

 

Obviously, injury can change that.  But if you carry 5 RBs, with 2 of them being dual-threat guys in Gibson and McKissic, who I assume both can play ST, then you might only roll with 5 WRs and 3 TEs to get to the somewhat "normal" 13 skill position players.

 

I don't consider McKissic a lock at all.  I think he and Latimer were insurance in case they got no one at those positions in the Draft.  Gibson and Gandy-Golden make the odds strongly against them making it(besides Latimer's arrest)

 

Quinn did get hurt at the end of last season, he got a concussion against the Panthers.

 

And looking at some stats

https://www.nfl.com/players/trey-quinn/stats/

 

https://www.nfl.com/players/steven-sims/stats/

 

the big differences are Sims averages 1.5 yards more per catch and he hasn't been on IR three times in two years.  But I looked at PFR and they were both targeted 20 more times they they successfully caught balls.  I don't stuffy stats really, so I hope thats not as bad as it sounds at first glance

 

[Conn]

Don't just look at the box score, Quinn got so many more opportunities and snaps and failed. Even when healthy he was like having a cardboard cut-out of an NFL player manning the slot. Below replacement-level. Sims had some dumb drops and some mistakes but he flashed more in his limited opportunities than Quinn ever has here.

 

Quinn was good and dependable at SMU and caught a ton of balls but was clearly the beneficiary of college defenses deciding that the much more talented Courtland Sutton was the guy to treat as a threat. And Sutton's draft pedigree and NFL career so far prove them right, he's well on his way to being a prototypical WR1. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

55 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Quinn was the quintessential athletically limited, coachable and "give maximum effort" guys Jay loved.  And that's not unique to Jay.  Coaches love thee guys.  The problem is if you count on them as anything other than role-payers, your're limiting your team.  

 

Quinn shouldn't be on the roster.  Even as the 5th or 6th receiver position if at all possible.  He doesn't really have the athleticism to be a standout ST player, he doesn't really have the ability to be a standout receiver.  

 

I agree with you about Quinn.  As far as Ryan Grant, I thought he'd be better as a player if he wasn't 6'0 and 195 or whatever he was.  Enter Kelvin Harmon whose 6'2 and 215.  That little extra size he's got helps him stick around and (imo) makes him deserving of being on the roster as a 4th or 5th WR.  Harmon also struggles with lack of athleticism, but he's try hard and has good size.

 

That's the try hard limit imo, if you don't have the athleticism, then you've gotta have at least the size.  Grant had the footwork to get a step on his route breaks, but lacked enough athleticism and burst to prevent the corner from catching up with ease.  Harmon is at least big enough to enter the picture as a blocker, a big slot type to throw wrinkles in on screens/run plays.

 

AGG is just a different size.  He's 6'4 (flat) and 223.  That size will let him do things with solid athleticism but not top tier, that Harmon and Grant can't.  Add in that he's a bit more athletic than both of them and his ceiling as a player is (imo) clearly higher.

 

For SPARQ scores.  AGG is 57%.  Harmon is at 20.7%.  I just looked up Ryan Grant, and his SPARQ scores benefitted from much better Pro Day testing than Combine testing.  Due to Covid, there were no Pro Day's for AGG to benefit from.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

I don't consider McKissic a lock at all.  I think he and Latimer were insurance in case they got no one at those positions in the Draft.  Gibson and Gandy-Golden make the odds strongly against them making it(besides Latimer's arrest)

 

Quinn did get hurt at the end of last season, he got a concussion against the Panthers.

 

And looking at some stats

https://www.nfl.com/players/trey-quinn/stats/

 

https://www.nfl.com/players/steven-sims/stats/

 

the big differences are Sims averages 1.5 yards more per catch and he hasn't been on IR three times in two years.  But I looked at PFR and they were both targeted 20 more times they they successfully caught balls.  I don't stuffy stats really, so I hope thats not as bad as it sounds at first glance

 

McKissic was a guy they brought in because of his skill set of receiving out of the backfield.  If others can replace that, then he might have a tough time sticking.  But his competition is probably more Gibson than anybody else.  He might be a lock, but they went out and signed him and then said they were excited to have him because he provides the same type of skill set McCaffery has, just not at that level.

 

I don't care about Quinn's stats at all. On the football field, he's slow, oozes through routes, and gets hurt a lot. He never got the type of separation he needed to in order to actually play meaningful snaps.  But he continued to get them when healthy because our coaching staff had no idea how to adapt.  

 

Sims flashed a lot for a rookie.

 

If you are trying to argue Quinn can be a valuable member of a good offense, I think you're flat wrong.  He shouldn't be on an NFL roster for a good offense.  Period.

37 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I agree with you about Quinn.  As far as Ryan Grant, I thought he'd be better as a player if he wasn't 6'0 and 195 or whatever he was.  Enter Kelvin Harmon whose 6'2 and 215.  That little extra size he's got helps him stick around and (imo) makes him deserving of being on the roster as a 4th or 5th WR.  Harmon also struggles with lack of athleticism, but he's try hard and has good size.

 

That's the try hard limit imo, if you don't have the athleticism, then you've gotta have at least the size.  Grant had the footwork to get a step on his route breaks, but lacked enough athleticism and burst to prevent the corner from catching up with ease.  Harmon is at least big enough to enter the picture as a blocker, a big slot type to throw wrinkles in on screens/run plays.

 

AGG is just a different size.  He's 6'4 (flat) and 223.  That size will let him do things with solid athleticism but not top tier, that Harmon and Grant can't.  Add in that he's a bit more athletic than both of them and his ceiling as a player is (imo) clearly higher.

 

For SPARQ scores.  AGG is 57%.  Harmon is at 20.7%.  I just looked up Ryan Grant, and his SPARQ scores benefitted from much better Pro Day testing than Combine testing.  Due to Covid, there were no Pro Day's for AGG to benefit from.

 

Grant is who he is.  He's not big or fast enough to be a starting WR in the NFL.  But he's a really good blocking WR, and he's a good guy to be on the team, you just can't count on him as a starter.  You could do a lot worse for a backup.  

 

Harmon has size, and I think has a little more athletic skills than most think.  He was still a rookie in a tough offense to learn. We'll see.

 

I really like AGG.

 

 

[Vanguard]

5 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Quinn was the quintessential athletically limited, coachable and "give maximum effort" guys Jay loved.  And that's not unique to Jay.  Coaches love thee guys.  

 

The problem is if you count on them as anything other than role-payers, your're limiting your team.  

 

Well said, and that’s my thing with Jay.  The only thing as important as coaching itself, is knowing who your best players are and putting them on the field.  He couldn’t do that.  He let his personal feelings get in the way.  The Adrian Peterson, Rob Kelley situation.  And the Haskins situation.