Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

Always wondered how this worked mechanically. The player’s agent can’t talk to the team that’s trying to acquire him. That’s tampering. Wouldn’t that be a big risk to trade assets and then be forced to tag them or have them walk?

Teams can give permission to speak to prospective suitors, which can include potential contract talks. 

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, IrepDC said:

Unfortunately, our team is the type to trade our few good players and create new holes; the type of team Philly takes advantage of. 

When has our team traded anything of note player wise? 
 

Champ Bailey?

 

Our team is the type who does a terrible job managing assets and refuses to trade or make trades for guys to improve the roster long term. Has been for a long time. 
 

Maybe I blocked it out of my head, but other than Champ I can’t remember a meaningful trade…

[MrJL]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

When has our team traded anything of note player wise? 
 

Champ Bailey?

 

Our team is the type who does a terrible job managing assets and refuses to trade or make trades for guys to improve the roster long term. Has been for a long time. 
 

Maybe I blocked it out of my head, but other than Champ I can’t remember a meaningful trade…

 

Trent, but the relationship was broken before that trade.

[KDawg]

Just now, MrJL said:

 

Trent, but the relationship was broken before that trade.

Yeah, I don’t particularly count him due to the Bruce Allen angle. Though that was a cluster**** of a situation.

[IrepDC]

19 minutes ago, KDawg said:

When has our team traded anything of note player wise? 
 

Champ Bailey?

 

Our team is the type who does a terrible job managing assets and refuses to trade or make trades for guys to improve the roster long term. Has been for a long time. 
 

Maybe I blocked it out of my head, but other than Champ I can’t remember a meaningful trade…

Trent Williams for a 3rd round pick.

 

The fire sale teams are suckers. The winners of these trades are the teams stealing valuable assets. San Fran not only got us, they worked over Carolina for McCaffrey. The Eagles have abused the Titans with Brown and now Byard.

 

The only recent teams who have had success with these fire sales have sold high. The Lions and the Seahawks. Our team sells low. We had people proposing Chase Young for a 4th round pick just weeks ago. We are big time losers in those scenarios.

[Riggo#44]

 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Trent Williams for a 3rd round pick.

 

The fire sale teams are suckers. The winners of these trades are the teams stealing valuable assets. San Fran not only got us, they worked over Carolina for McCaffrey. The Eagles have abused the Titans with Brown and now Byard.

 

The only recent teams who have had success with these fire sales have sold high. The Lions and the Seahawks. Our team sells low. We had people proposing Chase Young for a 4th round pick just weeks ago. We are big time losers in those scenarios.

You can’t trade him for a 4th. A comp pick would be higher. That’s an even worse bungling of resources.

 

I don’t really count Trent. Bruce ruined that relationship. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

32 minutes ago, KDawg said:

When has our team traded anything of note player wise? 

We traded the best left tackle in the league.

[PeterMP]

20 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Trent Williams for a 3rd round pick.

 

The fire sale teams are suckers. The winners of these trades are the teams stealing valuable assets. San Fran not only got us, they worked over Carolina for McCaffrey. The Eagles have abused the Titans with Brown and now Byard.

 

The only recent teams who have had success with these fire sales have sold high. The Lions and the Seahawks. Our team sells low. We had people proposing Chase Young for a 4th round pick just weeks ago. We are big time losers in those scenarios.

 

How did those teams get abused?

 

Where to you think Tennesse would be with Brown?

 

Where would Carolina be McCaffrey?

 

Saying they were abused suggest that they'd be in a substantially better position with those players compared to not having them.

 

We know where we are with Chase Young, and it isn't good and not nearly close to winning a championship.  You can't be abused for giving up a player that doesn't put you in a position to beat the likes of the Bears and Giants.

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You can’t trade him for a 4th. A comp pick would be higher. That’s an even worse bungling of resources.

 

I don’t really count Trent. Bruce ruined that relationship. 

 

A comp pick wouldn't necessarily be higher.  Comp picks depend on who goes out AND who you bring in, and we should be a good bit under the cap to bring players in.  High comp. picks generally require that you've lost a player that signed a high value long term contract and didn't bring much of anything in.  Which I'm not at all sure a team is going to sign him to, and we should have money to bring in some good players.  And if he has a serious injury between now and the end of the season, I'll pretty much guarantee you that won't happen.

 

Young's value is directly related to the likelihood of him finishing the season without a major injury, which none of us really have no clue on.

Edited October 25, 2023 by PeterMP

[IrepDC]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You can’t trade him for a 4th. A comp pick would be higher. That’s an even worse bungling of resources.

 

I don’t really count Trent. Bruce ruined that relationship. 

Fair enough on the Trent point. I'm admittedly jaded by it.

 

IF we do let any of the few talented players we have go, it needs to be for great compensation. Otherwise, I'm in the minority of continuing to pay our home grown talent. 

 

I'm aware of the opposing views, such as yours, of asset management and spending too much on the DL. I respect the thinking. I understand the thinking. I just don't agree, in our current case, because those are the few pieces we have to build around.

 

The Eagles have invested even more into their DL, but they also had the sense to do the same for their OL. We need to do the same, build an OL to compliment the DL we have, instead of cutting our nose off to spite our face; what I consider fire sale teams to be doing. 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

How did those teams get abused?

 

Where to you think Tennesse would be with Brown?

 

Where would Carolina be McCaffrey?

 

Saying they were abused suggest that they'd be in a substantially better position with those players compared to not having them.

 

We know where we are with Chase Young, and it isn't good and not nearly close to winning a championship.  You can't be abused for giving up a player that doesn't put you in a position to beat the likes of the Bears and Giants.

 

A comp pick wouldn't necessarily be higher.  Comp picks depend on who goes out AND who you bring in, and we should be a good bit under the cap to bring players in.  High comp. picks generally require that you've lost a player that signed a high value long term contract and didn't bring much of anything in.  Which I'm not at all sure a team is going to sign him to, and we should have money to bring in some good players.  And if he has a serious injury between now and the end of the season, I'll pretty much guarantee you that won't happen.

 

Young's value is directly related to the likelihood of him finishing the season without a major injury, which none of us really have no clue on.

Yes. However, the comp pick is a possibility and letting either of them go for under that would be poor strategy, imo. You either get a good return or you keep them and hope Rivera didn’t bungle this bad enough to somehow lose both.

Just now, IrepDC said:

Fair enough on the Trent point. I'm admittedly jaded by it.

 

IF we do let any of the few talented players we have go, it needs to be for great compensation. Otherwise, I'm in the minority of continuing to pay our home grown talent. 

 

I'm aware of the opposing views, such as yours, of asset management and spending too much on the DL. I respect the thinking. I understand the thinking. I just don't agree, in our current case, because those are the few pieces we have to build around.

 

The Eagles have invested even more into their DL, but they also had the sense to do the same for their OL. We need to do the same, build an OL to compliment the DL we have, instead of cutting our nose off to spite our face; what I consider fire sale teams to be doing. 

I think the asset management part here is key. Had we signed Sweat… or exercised Chase’s fifth year option we’d be in an entirely different place. But now we’re looking at both guys hitting FA. We can make one stay, but the other can choose to leave. And let’s be honest, unless we way overshoot the market value, why stay here? 
 

Rivera and his FO have bungled our assets since they got here. This is my concern. The leaving for nothing route. 

[IrepDC]

10 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

How did those teams get abused?

 

Where to you think Tennesse would be with Brown?

 

Where would Carolina be McCaffrey?

 

Saying they were abused suggest that they'd be in a substantially better position with those players compared to not having them.

 

We know where we are with Chase Young, and it isn't good and not nearly close to winning a championship.  You can't be abused for giving up a player that doesn't put you in a position to beat the likes of the Bears and Giants.

They got abused because their teams are worse. Yes, the Titans are better with AJ Brown still there. The Panthers offense is better with McCaffrey still there. 

 

Your math, saying that losing to the Bears means every player is to blame and therefor expendable, is the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. We are bad so let's devalue and throw away the few good things we have? I know I'm going to catch hell but I simply disagree.

[PeterMP]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yes. However, the comp pick is a possibility and letting either of them go for under that would be poor strategy, imo. You either get a good return or you keep them and hope Rivera didn’t bungle this bad enough to somehow lose both.

 

Under what?  Under the value of pick that you don't really know what it will be.  Yes, letting them go for less than something that is currently of unknown value would be a mistake, but there is no real knowing what that will be.

[IrepDC]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yes. However, the comp pick is a possibility and letting either of them go for under that would be poor strategy, imo. You either get a good return or you keep them and hope Rivera didn’t bungle this bad enough to somehow lose both.

I think the asset management part here is key. Had we signed Sweat… or exercised Chase’s fifth year option we’d be in an entirely different place. But now we’re looking at both guys hitting FA. We can make one stay, but the other can choose to leave. And let’s be honest, unless we way overshoot the market value, why stay here? 
 

Rivera and his FO have bungled our assets since they got here. This is my concern. The leaving for nothing route. 

You are absolutely right, and if that happens, I'll be eating crow saying you guys were right. I'm just going with my gut and admittedly I may be wrong.

 

Part of my thinking comes from when I looked up our upcoming cap space, and I can't figure out where we are going to be spending all that money elsewhere; unless we are going back to big money FAs. I'm not saying reset the market, but if we can keep the #93 #17 and #94 trend of well paid, but not market setting, extentions, why not?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, PeterMP said:

 

Under what?  Under the value of pick that you don't really know what it will be.  Yes, letting them go for less than something that is currently of unknown value would be a mistake, but there is no real knowing what that will be.

Under a comp pick. I think you know what I’m driving at here. The return is too low to bother for anything under the value of a 3rd round comp pick. The risk is worth more because you may wind up with a comp pick or the player. Trading them for a fifth just gives you under the player value in return assets.

[PeterMP]

7 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

They got abused because their teams are worse. Yes, the Titans are better with AJ Brown still there. The Panthers offense is better with McCaffrey still there. 

 

Your math, saying that losing to the Bears means every player is to blame and therefor expendable, is the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. We are bad so let's devalue and throw away the few good things we have? I know I'm going to catch hell but I simply disagree.

 

But that's bit ridiculous of a metric to measure those trades.  The Panthers didn't trade McCaffrey to be better this year.  They traded him to be better in 5 years.

 

Every player should e expendable for reasonable value.

 

If in 5 years, the Panthers have won a superbowl and the 49ers haven't, then that'll be different.

Edited October 25, 2023 by PeterMP

[Conn]

43 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

Trent Williams for a 3rd round pick.

 

The fire sale teams are suckers. The winners of these trades are the teams stealing valuable assets. San Fran not only got us, they worked over Carolina for McCaffrey. The Eagles have abused the Titans with Brown and now Byard.

 

The only recent teams who have had success with these fire sales have sold high. The Lions and the Seahawks. Our team sells low. We had people proposing Chase Young for a 4th round pick just weeks ago. We are big time losers in those scenarios.

You’re forgetting Miami in the success column. 

[IrepDC]

6 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

But that's bit ridiculous of a metric to measure those trades.  The Panthers didn't trade McCaffrey to be better this year.  They traded him to be better in 5 years.

 

Every player should e expendable for reasonable value.

 

If in 5 years, the Panthers have won a superbowl and the 49ers haven't, then that'll be different.

Treylon Burks, I think that's the guy Tennesse drafted with the AJ Brown pick, will never be a net gain for the Titans. McCaffrey, who is breaking scoring records, will always be more valuable than the mid round picks who may or may not even be impact players. 

 

It only works in scenarios like Seattle with Wilson or Detroit with Stafford. They got enough assets where the net gain was worthwhile. But Detroit still does things like trade Swift for a 4th and then use a 1st for his replacement. That's bad management in my opinion, but some may have liked those moves. Trading top talent for middle of the draft picks is a loss.

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

You’re forgetting Miami in the success column. 

You're right, and they fit my caveat of selling high. They didn't trade their top guys for pennies like we suggest.

[PeterMP]

36 minutes ago, IrepDC said:

 

Treylon Burks, I think that's the guy Tennesse drafted with the AJ Brown pick, will never be a net gain for the Titans. McCaffrey, who is breaking scoring records, will always be more valuable than the mid round picks who may or may not even be impact players. 

 

It only works in scenarios like Seattle with Wilson or Detroit with Stafford. They got enough assets where the net gain was worthwhile. But Detroit still does things like trade Swift for a 4th and then use a 1st for his replacement. That's bad management in my opinion, but some may have liked those moves. Trading top talent for middle of the draft picks is a loss.

You're right, and they fit my caveat of selling high. They didn't trade their top guys for pennies like we suggest.

 

I believe the Titans trading Brown was more of a salary cap decision.  At the end of the year, they weren't going to have enough money to resign him to the big contract he was going to get (and got from the Eagles).  So comparing him to the pick they got is a false choice.  You would have to compare him to the player they got and the people they would have had to cut to keep him.

 

(Realistically, the Titans over paid Tannehill, but that's a different discussion and that forced them to make some hard/bad decisions on other players.)

 

The Commanders trading players (like Young) is more akin to the Mcaffery trade than the Brown trade.

 

Time matters.  A slot WR that plays a key role on a SB team is more valuable than a guy that sets records on a 500 team.  As a fan, I value Ricky Sanders more than Alfred Morris, Stephen Davis, Brian Orkapo, Kerrigan, Clinton Portis, Deangelo Hall etc.  The Mcaffery trade gave the Panthers picks and put them in a position that they were able to use to trade up to get Young.  Whether the Mcaffery trade is a success or failure for the Panthers will depend directly on how good Young is.  The Panther were highly unlikely ever to be build a real championship team around McCaffery.

 

It is likely Swift got traded because he hadn't been able to stay healthy.  Can we let him finish a season healthy before we deem the trade a failure for the Lions?  If Swift strains a hamstring and misses 3 weeks, that changes everything.

 

(Generally, I love how you are talking about teams as winning that didn't win a Super Bowl with the players they traded for.  From my perspective, the objective of sports isn't to win the most games over something like a 10 year period where having 10 9-8 teams might be the best approach.  The objective is to win the championship.)

Edited October 25, 2023 by PeterMP

[Number 44]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Maybe I blocked it out of my head, but other than Champ I can’t remember a meaningful trade…

Norm Snead for Sonny Jurgensen.

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

 

 

A comp pick wouldn't necessarily be higher.  Comp picks depend on who goes out AND who you bring in, and we should be a good bit under the cap to bring players in.  High comp. picks generally require that you've lost a player that signed a high value long term contract and didn't bring much of anything in.  Which I'm not at all sure a team is going to sign him to, and we should have money to bring in some good players.  And if he has a serious injury between now and the end of the season, I'll pretty much guarantee you that won't happen.

 

Young's value is directly related to the likelihood of him finishing the season without a major injury, which none of us really have no clue on.

we have about 15 players who are free agents and should be on someone's roster next year so we could easily have some significant comp picks

[method man]

A reason for trading picks for players is 1) getting access to players who otherwise would never make it to free agency and 2) getting guys midway through their deals and having the other team deal with the original cap hit of the signing bonus

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

We traded the best left tackle in the league.

for peanuts and a sausage sandwich. All because RR said he didn't want to be here. We got robbed.

[Anselmheifer]

You guys that want to trade Chase for a 2nd or 3rd are out of your rabbit ass minds. 
 

Which Commander is having a better season than Chase?
 

He’s a 24yo top 11 pass rusher with the ceiling of a top 2 pass rusher. 
 

Maybe Terry is better than him. Maybe. And Terry is 4 years older. 
 

Chase is the guy you keep for the next regime to build around on defense. I’d 100% move Allen or Payne first. 
 

The only way I move Chase, is as part of a package to move up for my top QB. 

[Warhead36]

16 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

You guys that want to trade Chase for a 2nd or 3rd are out of your rabbit ass minds. 
 

Which Commander is having a better season than Chase?
 

He’s a 24yo top 11 pass rusher with the ceiling of a top 2 pass rusher. 
 

Maybe Terry is better than him. Maybe. And Terry is 4 years older. 
 

Chase is the guy you keep for the next regime to build around on defense. I’d 100% move Allen or Payne first. 
 

The only way I move Chase, is as part of a package to move up for my top QB. 

Yeah I agree. I mean I didn't even wanna deal Young for a 4th before the season. Now that his value is high and he's actually in demand, people just wanna give him away? He's the type of guy the next regime would want to build around. Trading him makes us significantly less attractive as a destination for top GM/HC candidates.