Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[GOATFrerotte]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

How is it that the stats you like to cite have to do with production but the things that are counterpoints to your argument have nothing to do with production?

 

It appears like you're wrong but you're too stubborn to admit it so you want to frame the conversation to your narrative rather than admitting you're incorrect.

 

It's impossible for me to be wrong. I use objective numbers. Nick Bosa was one of the most double teamed player last year yet his production numbers were in line with the best players in the game, not just rookies. There is literally no argument you can make that puts Chase Young in the same category as Nick Bosa. And to me that's what I was hoping to get out of our #2 draft pick and it hurts me that we might have more of a Clowney (just a freak athlete who makes a play or two every now and again) than a Bosa. 

[OVCChairman]

12 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Grown men making statements about putting others on ignore because they disagree about a players production, lmao. I've seen it all now. 

 

All you are bringing up is excuses for a lack of production. My argument is his production numbers are pretty bad. There is no way around that. You can believe the excuses you come up with or you can be like me and be disappointed that the numbers are so bad regardless of the reasons. I had higher expectations from our #2 pick. I don't care about his double team rate, his pass rush win rate, or whatever weird PFF stat you can come up with that avoids the discussion about actual production. 

 

 

no... YOU are bringing up your OPINION about what PRODUCTION provides value.  

 

WE are trying to tell you that there IS PRODUCTION that you are choosing to ignore.  Stats lie all the time.  Jameis Winston broke records in Tampa Bay last year throwing for 5100 yards (319 ypg)... the team went 7-9.  Tom Brady is in the same offense and he's thrown for 3300 yards through 12 games (275 ypg) and the team is 7-5 and comfortably in the playoff race.  Is Tom Brady  not anywhere near Jameis? 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

It's impossible for me to be wrong. 

 

Yeah, well...

 

You're wrong, homie.

[ExoDus84]

47 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

DJ Wonnum has 11 tackles in 12 games.

 

Still, he's equally as good as Chase.

 

Chase:

 

DJ someone:

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by ExoDus84

[GOATFrerotte]

1 minute ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

no... YOU are bringing up your OPINION about what PRODUCTION provides value.  

 

WE are trying to tell you that there IS PRODUCTION that you are choosing to ignore.  Stats lie all the time.  Jameis Winston broke records in Tampa Bay last year throwing for 5100 yards (319 ypg)... the team went 7-9.  Tom Brady is in the same offense and he's thrown for 3300 yards through 12 games (275 ypg) and the team is 7-5 and comfortably in the playoff race.  Is Tom Brady  not anywhere near Jameis? 

 

 

 

Of course, however my opinion is numbers like, sacks, qb hits, pressures, knockdowns, hurries, etc. Why, in your opinion, those numbers don't matter is the bigger question than why I use those numbers. 

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

Still, he's equally as good as Chase.

 

Chase:

 

DJ someone:

 

 

Chase

4.5 sacks

6 QB Hits

4 Hurries

1 Knockdown

10 Pressures

 

DJ Wonnum

3 sacks

8 QB Hits

3 Hurries

5 Knockdowns

11 Pressures

 

I mean, come on now. Any objective person can just say Chase Young should have a little more production than this. 

[steve09ru]

28 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

In his last 8 games he has

 

2 Sacks

4 QB Hits

3 Hurries

1 Knockdown

6 Pressures

 

I just don't know what to tell you guys. That's not good production.

 

Just for a reference of what numbers can look like. Nick Bosa's first 8 game stretch

 

7 Sacks

13 QB Hits

11 Hurries

6 Knockdowns

24 Pressures

not sure how they figure those stats but the videos above show they are complete garbage.  you can literally watch him hurry ben 3 times alone in that video with 3 more hits.  This is also pretty much every game he's doing this in.

[goskins10]

 

18 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

In his last 8 games he has

 

2 Sacks

4 QB Hits

3 Hurries

1 Knockdown

6 Pressures

 

I just don't know what to tell you guys. That's not good production.

 

Just for a reference of what numbers can look like. Nick Bosa's first 8 game stretch

 

7 Sacks

13 QB Hits

11 Hurries

6 Knockdowns

24 Pressures

 

I am only taking one shot at this - not sure why I am but here goes - you are missing the nuances of NFL teams and seasons. That season the 49ers were loaded at most every position and were blowing people out early on their way to a 13-3 record. So other teams had to pass much more and from behind. That means he had many more chances.

 

Here is a little nugget - the last time Ben was sacked was against Baltimore - no not last week, in week 8!  What you have to do is what Jack did - rush 4 and play coverage. The goal was to keep Ben in the pocket and make him throw the short stuff assuming eventually he would make a mistake. And it worked. 

 

This is not the 2019 SF 49ers. We have been the team behind a lot and by a lot of pts. So other teams run more and generally take less chances, also lessening his chances. Chase Young is playing with the confines of the defense becasue he is a good teammate and wants to win. Hence the reason Sweat is having a great season but that is a different topic. 

 

So we have game plan and game situation that limit his opportunities but you want to do a one to one comparison. It's not a reasonable comparison and why pretty much everyone in the free world (Ok that may be an exaggeration 🙂)  but most people who know anything about the NFL agree he has been beasting it out. 

 

Your expectations are not "just higher" than others, they are wildly out of proportion with reality and without taking mitigating factors into account. It doesn't matter to me becasue I am more than happy with his production. But you may want to get used to living with disappointment.  

[Skinsinparadise]

https://www.espn.com/blog/washington/post/_/id/40797/washington-football-team-on-a-roll-thanks-to-young-defensive-ends-alex-smith

Budding stars

Washington's line anchors the defense, and while the interior has been good, it's the young ends who provide the flash. Sweat and rookie Chase Young have combined for 10.5 sacks, but those totals don't fully reflect their impact. Against Dallas in Week 12, Sweat made a leaping interception of quarterback Andy Dalton and returned it for a touchdown. Monday, he deflected three Ben Roethlisberger passes, the last resulting in an interception by linebacker Jon Bostic.

They both play the run well; Young plays with a veteran's savvy when it comes to his awareness of plays. He broke up a screen pass, among other plays, because of this Monday.

"You guys see more of the pass rush, but for me I see what they do in the run game," Bostic said. "That's what makes those guys special. A lot of ends are just pass-rush guys."

[GOATFrerotte]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I am only taking one shot at this - not sure why I am but here goes - you are missing the nuances of NFL teams and seasons. That season the 49ers were loaded at most every position and were blowing people out early on their way to a 13-3 record. So other teams had to pass much more and from behind. That means he had many more chances.

 

Here is a little nugget - the last time Ben was sacked was against Baltimore - no not last week, in week 8!  What you have to do is what Jack did - rush 4 and play coverage. The goal was to keep Ben in the pocket and make him throw the short stuff assuming eventually he would make a mistake. And it worked. 

 

This is not the 2019 SF 49ers. We have been the team behind a lot and by a lot of pts. So other teams run more and generally take less chances, also lessening his chances. Chase Young is playing with the confines of the defense becasue he is a good teammate and wants to win. Hence the reason Sweat is having a great season but that is a different topic. 

 

So we have game plan and game situation that limit his opportunities but you want to do a one to one comparison. It's not a reasonable comparison and why pretty much everyone in the free world (Ok that may be an exaggeration 🙂)  but most people who know anything about the NFL agree he has been beasting it out. 

 

Your expectations are not "just higher" than others, they are wildly out of proportion with reality and without taking mitigating factors into account. It doesn't matter to me becasue I am more than happy with his production. But you may want to get used to living with disappointment.  

 

Well we are washington fans, disappointment just kind of comes with the territory. I'm pleased with his leadership abilities and glad he'll be leading the team for a long time. Did I expect a special rookie season with large production from him, yes. Am I unhappy that we have to make all these excuses for lack of production like we do most Washington players over the last 30 years, yes. Would it be nice to have a player that you don't have to make excuses for? Yes. How those beliefs are unreasonable is beyond me. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

 

I have no doubt both QBs will have good careers, but the quickness that “some” fans here judge players and then absolutely refuse to budge from that stance is simply asinine. 

 

No doubt that Herbert and Tua will have good careers or Tua and Haskins?

[OVCChairman]

Just now, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Of course, however my opinion is numbers like, sacks, qb hits, pressures, knockdowns, hurries, etc. Why, in your opinion, those numbers don't matter is the bigger question than why I use those numbers. 

 

 

nowhere did I say they 'didn't matter.'  

 

 

[goskins10]

Just now, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Well we are washington fans, disappointment just kind of comes with the territory. I'm pleased with his leadership abilities and glad he'll be leading the team for a long time. Did I expect a special rookie season with large production from him, yes. Am I unhappy that we have to make all these excuses for lack of production like we do most Washington players over the last 30 years, yes. Would it be nice to have a player that you don't have to make excuses for? Yes. How those beliefs are unreasonable is beyond me. 

 

That's just it. No one is making excuses. There is nothing to make excuses for. If you get 10 AB and I get 25 AB and you get 3 HRs and I get 6, who is better? That is not an excuse. If the other team runs 45 times and passes 28 you will have less chances for sacks than if the other team is the opposite. And there is also game plan. That is not an excuse. It's doing what you are told by the coaches and staying within the game plan. 

 

So I took my shot at reasoning with you with data and logic. You have chosen to ignore both. So my last response here. Feel free to continue standing on the hill that has no foundation.  😂

[ExoDus84]

This was posted a few days ago. Don't see DJ Wonnum on there for some reason.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by ExoDus84

[GOATFrerotte]

32 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

That's just it. No one is making excuses. There is nothing to make excuses for. If you get 10 AB and I get 25 AB and you get 3 HRs and I get 6, who is better? That is not an excuse. If the other team runs 45 times and passes 28 you will have less chances for sacks than if the other team is the opposite. And there is also game plan. That is not an excuse. It's doing what you are told by the coaches and staying within the game plan. 

 

So I took my shot at reasoning with you with data and logic. You have chosen to ignore both. So my last response here. Feel free to continue standing on the hill that has no foundation.  😂

 

You're literally just making up stats. Let's just take last year first 12 games for Nick Bosa and look at the drastic difference between the two compared to elite rushers in the league. There's just no way to justify this other than saying Chase Young simply isn't ready to be a dominant pass rusher in this game. Was I hoping he would be? Yes. Is it disappointing that he is this far off from being one of the better rushers in the league? Yes. I don't know why that is an unreasonable position to have. 

 

2019 First 12 games vs Chase Young First 12 games

QB Hits

TJ Watt 28

Joey Bosa 22

Nick Bosa 18

 

Chase Young 6

 

QB Pressures

TJ Watt 46

Joey Bosa 42

Nick Bosa 32

 

Chase Young 10

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by GOATFrerotte

[Malapropismic Depository]

And this is why Tomlin has never, ever had a losing season in what, 14 seasons ?

He refuses to tank.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Malapropismic Depository said:

And this is why Tomlin has never, ever had a losing season in what, 14 seasons ?

He refuses to tank.

 

 

 

I was about to post the same clip.  I don't think any coach tanks -- it works against them unless they got mega security.  i just don't see how a team can tank on purpose since what incentive would the players have to do it?

[skinbuck]

For the record: I love me some Young Chase, but man, he didn’t seem to be the primary force behind the GL stop

[Malapropismic Depository]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was about to post the same clip.  I don't think any coach tanks -- it works against them unless they got mega security.  i just don't see how a team can tank on purpose since what incentive would the players have to do it?

 

 

Personally, I don't believe it happens either, with players or coaches, for the reasons you stated.

Some people claim that the tanking actually occurs in upper management.

But I'm not going to pretend to know what does, or does not, happen behind closed doors.

 

 

12 minutes ago, skinbuck said:

For the record: I love me some Young Chase, but man, he didn’t seem to be the primary force behind the GL stop

 

With insane atheticism, he single-handedly, did just that. How many Defensive ENDS stop a RB from scoring at the 1, from behind ?

Edited December 8, 2020 by Malapropismic Depository

[Anselmheifer]

35 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

This was posted a few days ago. Don't see DJ Wonnum on there for some reason.

 

 

 

What was Nick Bosa's pass rush win rate last year? 

 

And regardless of who is the better rookie, maybe Nick, I'm taking Chase Young over Nick Bosa 11/10 times. Better college production. Better traits. Much higher ceiling. No significant injury history. Nick Bosa has now had career ending surgery 2 out of the last 3 years. He's Brandon Scherff. And he was always a high floor, non-elite ceiling type prospect, IMO. Chase has HOF tools and is already super productive. 

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No doubt that Herbert and Tua will have good careers or Tua and Haskins?

Tua and Herbert.

[OVCChairman]

25 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

You're literally just making up stats. Let's just take last year first 12 games for Nick Bosa and look at the drastic difference between the two compared to elite rushers in the league. There's just no way to justify this other than saying Chase Young simply isn't ready to be a dominant pass rusher in this game. Was I hoping he would be? Yes. Is it disappointing that he is this far off from being one of the better rushers in the league? Yes. I don't know why that is an unreasonable position to have. 

 

2019 First 12 games vs Chase Young First 12 games

QB Hits

TJ Watt 28

Joey Bosa 22

Nick Bosa 18

 

Chase Young 6

 

QB Pressures

TJ Watt 46

Joey Bosa 42

Nick Bosa 32

 

Chase Young 10

 

 

 

 

He's not, you're ignoring it because it doesn't fit your narrative. 

 

If Chase Young is not asked to pass rush on every play, then you can't get mad when he doesn't get a sack.  There are a lot of plays that his is not rushing the passer, he's got gap control, run defense, or edge contain.  Add to that a fair amount of times the other team is literally gameplanning to slow him down.  Additionally he does not play 100% of the snaps because we have the franchise leader in sacks playing the same position he is.  Bosa did not have Ryan Kerrigan eating up obvious pass rushing situations from him.  Look at Bosa's snap count vs Young... Bosa played 777 snaps his rookie season across 16 games, Young through 11 games has played 423.  Bosa played 76% of San Frans snaps... Young has played in 68%. 8 % may not be a ton but there is likely a very stark contrast in the situations he's one the field... hence the analogy of the batter getting ABs.  If he's not pass rushing specifically then there's a lack of opportunity for those all encompassing stats you're prioritizing. 

 

Young plays primarily on downs that can result in a run or a pass so the assignments and responsibilities aren't "go get the QB."  Go back and watch the game yesterday, there were MULTIPLE situations where you could tell Young was intentionally not going up field.  He engaged the blocker, then stepped back and jumped into a potential passing lane.  More than once he took it away.  That's by design because we knew Ben was not going to sit back there and take sacks all game.  

Edited December 8, 2020 by OVCChairman

[Malapropismic Depository]

More expert analysis, all while sitting on the toilet.

Young is "Silky Smooth"

Sorry, I just saw this was already posted

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Malapropismic Depository

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

Yeah but he didn’t touch the quarterback so I guess he was the worst player on the defense that play?

 

Is that how it works?

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

Personally, I don't believe it happens either, with players or coaches, for the reasons you stated.

Some people claim that the tanking actually occurs in upper management.

But I'm not going to pretend to know what does, or does not, happen behind closed doors.

 

 

Yeah i guess for upper management it would work by stripping their roster which the Dolphins did a season ago and the Jets did some this year.  But as for the actual games i don't think any team tanks.  As for fans rooting for a loss that's different but I don't think its ever in play for the players during the game.

 

My point here is some occasionally will argue about fans wanting the team to tank and whether that's right or wrong to do but i don't think tanking like that is ever in play -- its just purely about fans rooting for draft position.  But for the actual players on the field, most of them ironically don't benefit from tanking since bringing highly ranked talented actually jeopardizes their jobs let alone putting up bad tape might effect their ability to get big money in FA or whatever. 

[Rex Tomb]

15 minutes ago, skinbuck said:

For the record: I love me some Young Chase, but man, he didn’t seem to be the primary force behind the GL stop

 

Ummm... Chase Young would like to disagree with you:

 

https://twitter.com/RobPaulNFL/status/1336087516504420354

 

How do you insert a tweet? LOL