Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Was anyone else clearly better or more consistent than what Cousins has turned into? 

 

To take this a step further, it's a perfect example.  Brunell was 13 - 15 here..  In those 30 years I believe he's the closest to .500 of any QB we've had not named Alex Smith.. He did exactly what Alex Smith is asked to do now... Ride the coat tails of a top tier defense and Clinton Portis.  Make a couple plays when you can, but don't make the big mistake... 

 

He got pushed out for Jason Campbell.... 

 

Oh I totally agree on your Cousins take.  It was my only argument for retaining him while understanding his limitations.  The numbers make it clear that Kirk was the best QB they've had here in decades, and better than anyone who has played here since.

 

But Mark Brunell was not good here. Fans were begging Coach Gibbs to put in Patrick Ramsey, when he failed they turned to drafting Jason Campbell because it was clear Brunell was not the answer.  

[OVCChairman]

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Oh I totally agree on your Cousins take.  It was my only argument for retaining him while understanding his limitations.  The numbers make it clear that Kirk was the best QB they've had here in decades, and better than anyone who has played here since.

 

But Mark Brunell was not good here. Fans were begging Coach Gibbs to put in Patrick Ramsey, when he failed they turned to drafting Jason Campbell because it was clear Brunell was not the answer.  

 

 

 

I know... i wasn't saying Brunell was some great QB, I simply said that Cousins was the best or most consistent over the last 30 years outside of maybe Brunell.  He was consistent.  He didn't make big mistakes and he managed the team.  

 

The point was not about Brunell being a good QB, it was about the fact that this fanbase is not loyal to the players... it's loyal to the brand.  Players have always been dismissed very quickly... often times incorrectly.   They get vilified unless they are ELITE from day 1.  Sean Taylor was vilified by this fanbase BIG TIME when his ATV incident came to light.  He was attacked by fans because of the wreckless play style was prone to penalties.. He was not embraced from day 1, he had to start going down the path of one of the greatest safeties to play the game before he got right with the fans.  

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

21 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

 

I know... i wasn't saying Brunell was some great QB, I simply said that Cousins was the best or most consistent over the last 30 years outside of maybe Brunell.  He was consistent.  He didn't make big mistakes and he managed the team.  

 

The point was not about Brunell being a good QB, it was about the fact that this fanbase is not loyal to the players... it's loyal to the brand.  Players have always been dismissed very quickly... often times incorrectly.   They get vilified unless they are ELITE from day 1.  Sean Taylor was vilified by this fanbase BIG TIME when his ATV incident came to light.  He was attacked by fans because of the wreckless play style was prone to penalties.. He was not embraced from day 1, he had to start going down the path of one of the greatest safeties to play the game before he got right with the fans.  

 

 

 

Your memory of how the fans embraced Sean Taylor from Day 1 differs from mine.  

Edited December 5, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan

[OVCChairman]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Your memory of how the fans embraced Sean Taylor from Day 1 differs from mine.  

 

 

Different perspectives I guess, all good. 

[method man]

21 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Different perspectives I guess, all good. 

It was in the middle. We were all excited by him as a rookie and then were a bit frustrated by his inconsistent play (freelancing and missing tackles) until his final season, where he played like the HOFer we were expecting him to be

[Dark Acre]

4 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

this fanbase is loyal to the brand, not the players.  This fanbase will vilify a player or label them bust with the quickness.  There is a reason that 'the most popular person in Washington is the backup Quarterback.' 

You're new to being a Redskins fan, ain'tcha?

 

First, free agency *killed* the identity of the team (all teams) being the players comprising the team.  It's now a franchise, with parts from wherever.  My mother, in her late-30's/early 40's became a rabid Redskins fan, even though she disliked pro football (she's a Cal girl), because when she was getting dinner ready for the family (husband and 3 kids) weekday after weekday, she'd have WTOP news on the, and this is important, *television* (yes, back in the day when over-the-air TV actually used rabbit ears for antennae (hence the name "rabbit ears"), channel 9 in D.C. was WTOP not WJLA or whatever it is now).  At 6:35 pm the sports segment would come on, and my mother, having two ears, two eyes, and a female brain, could pay attention to both the veal scallopini and the tv.  So day after day she'd listen to the Redskins update, they'd talk about the players, have the players on, etc.  Because this went on for years and there was no free agency, she kept hearing the same names, and watching the same players being interviewed, and her husband and 2 sons watched games on Sundays, so she eventually found herself rooting for the team because the players had become so familiar to her just because they were on the news every day.  My mother didn't care if the franchise won; she cared if those 40 men together won.

 

Second, there's a poster here who took the time to explain how trading a minor speed receiver (Frank Grant, #22 on the all-time Team receiving yardage list) ended up destroying the Team in 1978 (which paved the way for St. Joe, but that's for another time).  You don't think that's fan loyalty, knowing that kind of minutiae?  Moving forward to the age when you could get a CRT TV bigger than 20" (i.e., the 80's), Dexter Manley, who was abjectly illiterate -- he could. not. read. period. -- and had a cocaine problem, was absolutely BELOVED by everyone, even after all of his problems came out.  To this day he's one of the most beloved players in Redskins history.  It wasn't just a star like Manley.  Even guys like Olkewicz and Milot got love from the fans.  It's because if they could play, they were here for more than a few years, and they became like family.  Your gripe is because of free agency combined with -

 

Third, rampant and repeated LOSING, week after week, year after year, since 1992, with a couple of exceptions like volcanic islands that popped out of the sea for a year or two and then sank back down.  Whoever is doing the historical retrospective of our rivalries with other teams -- as he noted, Pittsburgh has had three -- I'll spell that out for you:  3 -- head coaches in 51 years.  That's an average of 1 head coach every 17 years.  That means winning and winning cures everything, especially your attitude towards guys with reading and/or drug problems.  (Dexter was actually an incredibly personable and charismatic player, and he was sincere in overcoming his demons later in life, so he's an outlier.)  We can't get rid of ownership so all we can do that doesn't involve destroying a television or beating your girlfriend/wife (and some of them beat back) is to bich about the players AND the coaches.  Yeah, we crop all over coaches harder than any fanbase in the NFL.  It does have its silver lining though -- no boy named Patricia would remotely consider coming here, thankfully.

 

If Rivera can make a winner out of Washingteam (make the paloffs two years in a row), there will be a ticker-tape parade in D.C. and Snyder will not be allowed to be there.

 

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."  Former Redskins head coach Vince Lombardi.

[OVCChairman]

2 hours ago, GothSkinsFan said:

You're new to being a Redskins fan, ain'tcha?

 

 

 

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."  Former Redskins head coach Vince Lombardi.

 

 

No....

 

Yes...

 

 

I have been a fan for as long as I have been alive and i still stand by my statement... it's just been much more relevant now.  Like I said in a previous post, it's long been said that the most popular person in Washington is the backup quarterback.  It's been that way forever. 

 

I dont doubt there have been beloved players in the past, but this current fanbase does not have player loyalty.  People are calling for Ryan Kerrigan to get traded for any draft pick the team can get... 

 

 

[method man]

10 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

 

I know... i wasn't saying Brunell was some great QB, I simply said that Cousins was the best or most consistent over the last 30 years outside of maybe Brunell.  He was consistent.  He didn't make big mistakes and he managed the team.  

 

The point was not about Brunell being a good QB, it was about the fact that this fanbase is not loyal to the players... it's loyal to the brand.  Players have always been dismissed very quickly... often times incorrectly.   They get vilified unless they are ELITE from day 1.  Sean Taylor was vilified by this fanbase BIG TIME when his ATV incident came to light.  He was attacked by fans because of the wreckless play style was prone to penalties.. He was not embraced from day 1, he had to start going down the path of one of the greatest safeties to play the game before he got right with the fans.  

 

 

Brunell’s first season was absolutely terrible. He singlehandedly cost us a winning season with piss poor play. It was 3 and out after 3 and out with him. We had our best defense in the past 25 years that year and a strong running game from Portis

 

Luckily, he was able to at least be a game manager in Year 2. 
 

Brad Johnson > Brunell for starters. Too bad Danny boy had a hard on for Jeff George and drove Brad out of town

Edited December 6, 2020 by method man

[Darrell Green Fan]

10 hours ago, method man said:

Brunell’s first season was absolutely terrible. He singlehandedly cost us a winning season with piss poor play. It was 3 and out after 3 and out with him. We had our best defense in the past 25 years that year and a strong running game from Portis

 

Luckily, he was able to at least be a game manager in Year 2. 
 

Brad Johnson > Brunell for starters. Too bad Danny boy had a hard on for Jeff George and drove Brad out of town

 

Yeah I have no idea why that poster propped up Mark Brunell as the example of the most consistent QB here. He was consistently bad, that's about it.  

[OVCChairman]

49 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Yeah I have no idea why that poster propped up Mark Brunell as the example of the most consistent QB here. He was consistently bad, that's about it.  

 

 

Brunell was not the point.  Good lord.  The point was Cousins was far and away the best thing we have had at QB and he got vilified.  This fanbase was wanting to get him benched and run out of town long before the franchise tag and money became too rich.  I said Cousins was the best and most consistent qb we have had in the last 30 year outside of 'maybe Brunell' which should tell you everything you need to know... that we have been terrible at QB and even when we have a semblance of ability this fanbase is still not happy.  

 

I never said Brunell was a good QB or tried to argue he was anything more than he was...

Edited December 6, 2020 by OVCChairman

[Warhead36]

4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Brunell was not the point.  Good lord.  The point was Cousins was far and away the best thing we have had at QB and he got vilified.  This fanbase was wanting to get him benched and run out of town long before the franchise tag and money became too rich.  I said Cousins was the best and most consistent qb we have had in the last 30 year outside of 'maybe Brunell' which should tell you everything you need to know... that we have been terrible at QB and even when we have a semblance of ability this fanbase is still not happy.  

 

I never said Brunell was a good QB or tried to argue he was anything more than he was...

The football IQ of our collective fan base has degraded so bad its sad. This is the same fan base that trashed Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay too.

 

30 years of losing football creates a fanbase that's apathetic and no longer very knowledgeable.

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

The football IQ of our collective fan base has degraded so bad its sad. This is the same fan base that trashed Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay too.

 

30 years of losing football creates a fanbase that's apathetic and no longer very knowledgeable.

 

 

So it's not just me?  I was seriously starting to think I was losing it... 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

12 hours ago, method man said:

Brunell’s first season was absolutely terrible. He singlehandedly cost us a winning season with piss poor play. It was 3 and out after 3 and out with him. We had our best defense in the past 25 years that year and a strong running game from Portis

 

Luckily, he was able to at least be a game manager in Year 2. 
 

Brad Johnson > Brunell for starters. Too bad Danny boy had a hard on for Jeff George and drove Brad out of town

 

Agree completely. Brunell was far from the model of consistency. He was horrific in 2004 and was a good game manager in 2005 with an ability to unleash some well-placed bombs when needed--Santana was tearing up the league through those first 5-6 games. And in his third year, Brunell was hit and miss during his time behind center. So he was all over the map.

 

 

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

Brunell was not the point.  Good lord.  The point was Cousins was far and away the best thing we have had at QB and he got vilified. 

 

Your point gets lost when you use a horrific example to prop it up, though lol...It's like saying Raging Bull is the most consistently well-acted movie over the past 50 years outside of Weekend At Bernies lol...

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Weekend At Bernies

Why you hating on weekend at Bernie’s?

[Dark Acre]

4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Yeah I have no idea why that poster propped up Mark Brunell as the example of the most consistent QB here. He was consistently bad, that's about it.  

Dude, whatever you feel about Mark Brunell, he threw two of the biggest bombs in Redskins history on that night in Dallas when he fed Santana Moss twice in the 4th quarter while being shut out, and one of those was on 4th down.  Almost made up for Clint Longley.

 

Bill Parcells was 77-0 when leading in the 4th Q by 13 or more points.  77-1 after Brunell nailed Moss with 2 perfectly thrown bombs -- splitting 2 defenders.  After that second bomb, Parcells looked like he was about to throw up. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by GothSkinsFan

[OVCChairman]

5 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Your point gets lost when you use a horrific example to prop it up, though lol...It's like saying Raging Bull is the most consistently well-acted movie over the past 50 years outside of Weekend At Bernies lol...

 

 

Haha fair point. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

On 12/5/2020 at 11:18 AM, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Your memory of how the fans embraced Sean Taylor from Day 1 differs from mine.  

You don't remember a loud group of fans who questioned his pick throughout his rookie year? Similar to Chase Young this year? The constant bringing up of a particular stat lacking (for Sean it was Interceptions). 

 

I actually find quite a bit of similarities between the reaction of fans durong Sean's rookie year and Chase's. Were you on here back then? 

[Vanguard]

6 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Why you hating on weekend at Bernie’s?

Classic

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Dude, whatever you feel about Mark Brunell, he threw two of the biggest bombs in Redskins history on that night in Dallas when he fed Santana Moss twice in the 4th quarter while being shut out, and one of those was on 4th down.  Almost made up for Clint Longley.

 

Bill Parcells was 77-0 when leading in the 4th Q by 13 or more points.  77-1 after Brunell nailed Moss with 2 perfectly thrown bombs -- splitting 2 defenders.  After that second bomb, Parcells looked like he was about to throw up. 

Brunell was pretty good the first half of the 05 season. After that he fell off hard. Otherwise that 05 team could have made a legit Super Bowl run.

[owa]

Hmm, with all the QB talk going on wondered if I had the correct thread but whatever...I'm still unsure on Chase.  I think he'll be great eventually but he is still getting there.  Love to see him wreck havoc occasionally but in the same line, same with Sweat.  I think we have a great future but that both of those needed (or need) a little more time.  Bottom-line is though, I'm glad they're both on my team.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, owa said:

Hmm, with all the QB talk going on wondered if I had the correct thread but whatever...I'm still unsure on Chase.  I think he'll be great eventually but he is still getting there.  Love to see him wreck havoc occasionally but in the same line, same with Sweat.  I think we have a great future but that both of those needed (or need) a little more time.  Bottom-line is though, I'm glad they're both on my team.

How can you be unsure of him and also glad he's on the team?

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, owa said:

Hmm, with all the QB talk going on wondered if I had the correct thread but whatever...I'm still unsure on Chase.  I think he'll be great eventually but he is still getting there.  Love to see him wreck havoc occasionally but in the same line, same with Sweat.  I think we have a great future but that both of those needed (or need) a little more time.  Bottom-line is though, I'm glad they're both on my team.

He's one of the highest ranked DEs in the league and he's an injured rookie that we all knew would need a year or two. lol Sweat's wrecked havoc all year.

[Warhead36]

I have no concerns with Young whatsoever in the future. And as a rookie he's been good to very good. Maybe not as dominant as say Bosa last year but he's more than done his part to help this team win.

 

DPOTYs will be in his future.

[NoCalMike]

The thing is Chase Young is being double-teamed, right? Well there are 4 other 1st rounders (maybe less with Ionnadis out?) on that line that are now left 1 on 1 who you expect can beat their match ups.  If any of them could win more consistently, it would mean Young would get less attention on him.  

 

When Aldon Smith was wreaking havoc for the 49ers in 2011-2014 it was because Justin Smith was being double teamed, leaving Aldon to beat 1 guy.  

 

Chase Young is already being schemed for as if he is a 4th year pro bowl pass rusher.  The attention he gets from O-coordinators should be translating into other guys doing more. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by NoCalMike

[tmandoug1]

Ok...ok...you have the second pick in the draft.....

Mclaurin or Young?