Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, carex said:

 

the position he plays that it's difficult to find quality at is Nose Tackle, not Defensive Tackle and we aren't using NTs anymore

 

We don't use a nose tackle?

 

A nose tackle is a guy that takes on centers and guards on the LOS. Daron Payne is a nose tackle. A 1-technique DT is a NT. 

[carex]

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

We don't use a nose tackle?

 

A nose tackle is a guy that takes on centers and guards on the LOS. Daron Payne is a nose tackle. A 1-technique DT is a NT. 

 

if every 1-tech DT can actually play NT why is it so hard to acquire them for the 3-4

[KDawg]

35 minutes ago, carex said:

 

if every 1-tech DT can actually play NT why is it so hard to acquire them for the 3-4

 

Every 1-tech is a NT.

 

You're confusing position names with scheme responsibilities.

 

A 3-4 Nose is typically a 2-gap player and usually aligns in a tight shade technique (on the shoulder of the center), head up, or in the gap between the guard and center. They have to be large and anchor extremely well. Their entire job is to eat blockers to allow the inside backers to be protected. And they can't be moved due to less men on the line of scrimmage. So large, strong anchors are harder to find. 

 

A 4-3 nose can align in those same spots, though not typically head up on the center and can be in a 1-technique, which is the inside shoulder of the guard. They, too, are supposed to eat blocks, but because of the front, they are typically only responsible for one gap. These guys don't have to anchor as much as a 3-4 2-gap nose and can penetrate a bit more. 

 

Daron Payne is a passable 3-4 2-gap nose candidate. He's a prototype 4-3 nose candidate. He can take on doubles if he has to, but he's not an anchor space eater guy. He's an attacking guy that can shoot a gap. 

 

A 4-3 nose is likely to have a bigger stat line than a 3-4 nose. Doesn't make them any more or less important. 

 

Not every DT is a NT. Not every NT is a DT. Some have more positional and scheme flexibility. It's similar to inside linebackers and outside line backers in a 3-4 vs. 4-3 scheme. 

 

It's nuanced.

 

Having said that, Payne played the even front nose role (1-technique) fairly regularly last year when we were in our nickel type sets. He barely, over his career as a Redskin, was a 2-gap odd front nose. The team didn't use that alignment all that regularly. 

 

But a 1-technique IS a nose. He just has a differing role than a 3-4 nose. 

Edited March 28, 2020 by KDawg

[Koolblue13]

34 minutes ago, carex said:

 

if every 1-tech DT can actually play NT why is it so hard to acquire them for the 3-4

It's hard to find a 360lb athlete anywhere. 

 

Half the league runs a base 34

 

There are maybe 2 or 3 elite 34 NTs at any time in the league.

 

Settle is not an elite #$ NT that we are hiding on our roster and keeping a secret. He is a back up and a good one.

 

We are lucky to have him.

[Koolblue13]

also @KDawg wayching the Lions Redskins 91 wildcard game right now. Great Dline, great secondary, young average LBers. They even just commented on how they've been bad all year, until this game. Found that interesting.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

also @KDawg wayching the Lions Redskins 91 wildcard game right now. Great Dline, great secondary, young average LBers. They even just commented on how they've been bad all year, until this game. Found that interesting.

 

Commented on who has been bad all year? Sorry, not following the sentence flow, but I think it's because I've been watching college QBs for a majority of the morning and my brain can't compute simple sentences. Send help. 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Commented on who has been bad all year? Sorry, not following the sentence flow, but I think it's because I've been watching college QBs for a majority of the morning and my brain can't compute simple sentences. Send help. 

Haha. The commentators were talking about the Redskins linebackers not being very good. lol

 

99, not 91. I've been in the sun all day.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Haha. The commentators were talking about the Redskins linebackers not being very good. lol

 

99, not 91. I've been in the sun all day.

 

It's amazing to me how much teams value defensive lines and secondary and then neglect linebacker. I don't think you need to be elite at any one position necessarily. I think you need to be good at all of them, though, defensively. And, this is controversial, but...

 

If you had to be great at one of those three groups and decent/adequate at the other two, I think your defense would be best if your linebacking corps was your great unit. 

 

1. Linebackers as your great unit.

2. DL as your great unit.

3. Secondary as your great unit.

 

Now, all three are important. You can't have a **** secondary and expect to win unless your DL and LBs are almost completely elite. But we're not taking "elite" into the equation here because that totally changes the math. 

 

I actually have started to group units a little differently than most.

 

It's Linebackers/Safeties, Defensive Line, Corners

 

I think the LBs and safeties in today's game have lines that are becoming a bit more blurred. 

 

I think a traditional MIKE may sit in with defensive line, where a more dynamic MIKE is more of a backer/safety. It's complex. So I don't often bring it up. But I think LBs/Safeties in today's game are very undervalued. They tie the coverage to the front more than the other units do. 

[skinny21]

Trading Settle shouldn’t be off the table, but we’re not going to get good value from a trade.  Much better to keep him this year.  
Now next year, I could maybe see a trade of one of our dlinemen as they’ll have a better chance at producing this year with 1) better coaching, 2) better stats due to a more disruptive scheme, and 3) improved play from our ends (hopefully with Young added and Sweat showIng improvement).  Trade when value is high.  

 

Anderson, on the other hand, may have more value now than he will after this season.  
 

@KDawg I can buy that line of thinking.  Much like TEs on offense, they affect both facets heavily - run game and pass game.  

Edited March 28, 2020 by skinny21

[Koolblue13]

32 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

It's amazing to me how much teams value defensive lines and secondary and then neglect linebacker. I don't think you need to be elite at any one position necessarily. I think you need to be good at all of them, though, defensively. And, this is controversial, but...

 

If you had to be great at one of those three groups and decent/adequate at the other two, I think your defense would be best if your linebacking corps was your great unit. 

 

1. Linebackers as your great unit.

2. DL as your great unit.

3. Secondary as your great unit.

 

Now, all three are important. You can't have a **** secondary and expect to win unless your DL and LBs are almost completely elite. But we're not taking "elite" into the equation here because that totally changes the math. 

 

I actually have started to group units a little differently than most.

 

It's Linebackers/Safeties, Defensive Line, Corners

 

I think the LBs and safeties in today's game have lines that are becoming a bit more blurred. 

 

I think a traditional MIKE may sit in with defensive line, where a more dynamic MIKE is more of a backer/safety. It's complex. So I don't often bring it up. But I think LBs/Safeties in today's game are very undervalued. They tie the coverage to the front more than the other units do. 

Safety has always been my favorite position. I think because I grew up with 80s football and had an infatuation with the AFC west.  Dan Reeves really changed the SS position with A****er, because of Marty and his stable in KC. That was just some insane power football and making a LBer style player play safety was fun to watch. I think it's kind of getting back to the way with more LBer/SS combo players who can run with the new style TEs and backs get more involved in the pass game, along with the mobile QBs and just offensive changes. It's fun to watch.

[carex]

13 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Safety has always been my favorite position. I think because I grew up with 80s football and had an infatuation with the AFC west.  Dan Reeves really changed the SS position with A****er, because of Marty and his stable in KC. That was just some insane power football and making a LBer style player play safety was fun to watch. I think it's kind of getting back to the way with more LBer/SS combo players who can run with the new style TEs and backs get more involved in the pass game, along with the mobile QBs and just offensive changes. It's fun to watch.

 

A****er was a FS, Dennis Smith played SS for the Broncos

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, carex said:

 

A****er was a FS, Dennis Smith played SS for the Broncos

Yes he was. That's what I meant. Changing the FS position.

[HTTRDynasty]

If you're not drafting a QB, drafting a great pass rusher on a rookie deal is the next best thing, value-wise.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

On 3/28/2020 at 12:25 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

If you're not drafting a QB, drafting a great pass rusher on a rookie deal is the next best thing, value-wise.

 

 

I dunno, that 419.5m cap hit for Nate Solder is pretty big...

[Skinsinparadise]

Agree. In Dan's era, the Redskins oddly don't do elite.  We can find good-very good players.  Have we ever had a top 10 type player ever in Dan's run?  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Anselmheifer]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree. In Dan's era, the Redskins oddly don't do elite.  We can find good-very good players.  Have we ever had a top 10 type player ever in Dan's run?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cooley has been very accurate in assessing talent, and this makes me feel even better about Chase. It could do such magic for us if Reuben Foster actually comes back and plays to his talent level. Really could take the defense to elite with one more CB and FS. If Jaylon Smith can do it, there is no reason Foster can't. 

 

And I actually think that with some protection from the OL and better QB play, McLaurin could be close to elite. 

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Anselmheifer

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree. In Dan's era, the Redskins oddly don't do elite.  We can find good-very good players.  Have we ever had a top 10 type player ever in Dan's run?  

 

 

Taylor and William's (before the injuries). I think that's it

[KDawg]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Taylor and William's (before the injuries). I think that's it

People forget Haynesworth was elite before he came... and he turned into a waste about 30 seconds after the ink hit the paper on that contract. 
 

I’m not sure the Skins have ever really done elite. Not just with Snyder.

 

Sure, we’ve had a handful of dudes. Baugh, Mann, Manley, Green, Monk, Riggo, Taylor, Samuels, Lachey, Jacoby. And some of the names I just listed are even debatable. Our best modern era QB was probably Theismann. 

[98ORAKPO98]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

People forget Haynesworth was elite before he came... and he turned into a waste about 30 seconds after the ink hit the paper on that contract. 
 

I’m not sure the Skins have ever really done elite. Not just with Snyder.

 

Sure, we’ve had a handful of dudes. Baugh, Mann, Manley, Green, Monk, Riggo, Taylor, Samuels, Lachey, Jacoby. And some of the names I just listed are even debatable. Our best modern era QB was probably Theismann. 

I'll add Chris Hanburger, Charley Taylor, Ken Houston, Russ Grimm, Ryan Kerrigan.

 

But yeah, compared to teams like the Steelers and Cowboys, we haven't had many superstars, and that sucks imo. I hope we draft Young.

[bakedtater1]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:58 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Safety has always been my favorite position. I think because I grew up with 80s football and had an infatuation with the AFC west.  Dan Reeves really changed the SS position with A****er, because of Marty and his stable in KC. That was just some insane power football and making a LBer style player play safety was fun to watch. I think it's kind of getting back to the way with more LBer/SS combo players who can run with the new style TEs and backs get more involved in the pass game, along with the mobile QBs and just offensive changes. It's fun to watch.

Steve A****er is the reason safety is my favorite position...well and of course Sean Taylor..but steve started it in the 80s..and ronnie lott.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

Steve A****er is the reason safety is my favorite position...well and of course Sean Taylor..but steve started it in the 80s..and ronnie lott.

Anelias Williams was another favorite of mine too. I'm sure I spelled that wrong. Played for the Cardinals unfortunately for him.

 

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

People forget Haynesworth was elite before he came... and he turned into a waste about 30 seconds after the ink hit the paper on that contract. 

I was so excited for that move. We had a pretty solid run on really good interior defensive linemen for years and then we were getting the best, Haynesworth. He was insane until he got paid.

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree. In Dan's era, the Redskins oddly don't do elite.  We can find good-very good players.  Have we ever had a top 10 type player ever in Dan's run?  

 

 

 

 

 

I had just made the point in the draft thread I think, that this is an incredibly stacked draft and we are going to come out of it with the consensus best player. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Taylor and William's (before the injuries). I think that's it

 

Yeah and for Taylor is was really just his last season.  Before that he was billed as a talented safety who was really inconsistent.

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

People forget Haynesworth was elite before he came... and he turned into a waste about 30 seconds after the ink hit the paper on that contract. 
 

I’m not sure the Skins have ever really done elite. Not just with Snyder.

 

Sure, we’ve had a handful of dudes. Baugh, Mann, Manley, Green, Monk, Riggo, Taylor, Samuels, Lachey, Jacoby. And some of the names I just listed are even debatable. Our best modern era QB was probably Theismann. 

 

It's a good point.  I mentioned this before, my wife who is a Giants fan, when she first saw Peterson in a Redskins uniform said to me (and she didn't mean it sarcastically) that it seemed odd to see a great player in a Redskins uniform, it looked to her almost out of place.

 

It's almost odd how we never seem to have top 10 guys.  Heck even having top 50 guys is rare.

 

I think part of the RG3 mania in 2012 was that for a brief time we actually had a star and a national one to boot.  It was a wild ride and really novel for this fan base.   The Giants for their downturn in recent years still had national stars and still do.  That's not something that's happened here. 

 

If Chase, who already is a national name, plays like he did in college he actually might improve this team's relevance nationally and might get some casual fans interested in this team.   Granted a pass rusher, isn't hyped like a QB but this team is starving for a star IMO.  It might help turn the tide some of them bleeding fans. 

 

Some forget but the bleeding fans stuff was going on early in 2018 when they were even winning -- I think the casual fan has been checking out in part because its been somewhat of a boring team and lack of star power is part of that.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Laconfora I recall was the first guy last year, probably right around the same time before the draft, who said watch the Redskins target Haskins because he hears Dan loves him

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

^ I'm sure we have a price.  I very much doubt any team will meet it.

 

Man, I just re-watched the Eagles game from Week 1 last season, and if anyone needed any proof that we still have an EXTREME need for a speed rusher, that is the primary game to watch to convince yourself.  The two plays where Desean torched our secondary for long TDs were on 3rd and 10.  They also had other chunk plays they consistently converted in 3rd and long situations to fuel their comeback.  Kerrigan was "close" to getting a sack multiple times, but consistently came up short.  I just kept thinking to myself, "no way do they convert that with Young on our defense".

 

That's one thing PFF and other analytics sites leave out when they conclude "coverage > pass rush".  They don't give the appropriate weight to high leverage situations like 3rd or 4th and long, where the QB can't just quick pass you to death.

 

Edited March 30, 2020 by HTTRDynasty

[bakedtater1]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Anelias Williams was another favorite of mine too. I'm sure I spelled that wrong. Played for the Cardinals unfortunately for him.

I remember who your talking about..tho the cardinals were a walk in the park, the receivers for the skins always played him with there head on a swivel...

Edited March 30, 2020 by bakedtater1