Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm not even sure what it is you are complaining about any more. 

 

I was done here but I'd be glad to clarify.  I'll illustrate it with bullets so it will be clear. Besides I always wanted to try that function. 

 

• It is not unreasonable for fans to look at a player who was touted as a generational talent, a dominant player, to have made more impactful plays after 11 games.
• I appear to be the only poster who has actually watched the games and counted the double teams, at least for the Detroit game. I'm simply clarifying that the notion that he is constantly facing double and triple teams is completely false. 
• I am obviously in that first group but have made it perfectly clear in several posts that I do not regret the pick and am convinced he will become that player in the future.
• This was somehow was interpreted by you and others to mean I am calling him a bust 11 games into his career when I did the exact opposite.  

Edited November 25, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan

[wit33]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Again, no one has really answered my point. I’ve said even before the draft that people should be careful with the generational label non sense. I even said that if he has less than 10 sacks the fan base is going to be up in arms. 
 

 

He still looks like a generational talent on an NFL field though, right? 
 

Generational production will take a while to accumulate. We’ll see. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

2 hours ago, carex said:

 

I'm sorry but this reads like covering yourself, it's like if he breaks out you'll be "well I never said he was a bust" and if he doesn't "well I was calling him a bust before anyone else realized it.

 

Sorry if it bugs you but that kind of thing happens when you're complaining about something a lot of people don't think need complaining about

See my post above for clarification. I'm hardly covering my ass. I'm simply making observations of what we've seen to date and (this is the important part) I firmly believe he will develop into the player he is projected to be.

 

Not sure how that is interpreted as covering my ass but whatever.  

Edited November 25, 2020 by Darrell Green Fan

[KDawg]

Just now, wit33 said:

He still looks like a generational talent on an NFL field though, right? 
 

Generational production will take a while to accumulate. We’ll see. 

 

That's not the point of my statement, though, and you know it.

 

To most people, generational means dominant. And to most people that watch sports, dominant means stat production.

 

Young is what I thought he was. An excellent, well developed, pro ready edge guy who is learning the speed and NFL OL tricks of the trade while battling a groin injury. I can't be disappointed with it because he's been as good as I thought he would be:

 

Impactful, above his age, smart, powerful.

 

His knock, to me, was his rush move reportoire in college. I posted about it many times. He has quick hands but college was too easy for him so he didn't develop more than a few moves. That will come. 

[Koolblue13]

13 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

• I appear to be the only poster who has actually watched the games and counted the double teams, at least for the Detroit game. I'm simply clarifying that the notion that he is constantly facing double and triple teams is completely false. 

Sip posted 20 screen shots of him being doubled from one game when someone, maybe you, made that absurd claim. Someone, maybe you, said that they were the only one who actually watches the game and saw no more than maybe 8 double teams, were immediately proven wrong, with pictures. Not sure if that was you. If it was then I definitely have no clue why you're still making up bull**** to prove a point that makes no sense. Maybe you had unrealistic expectations about our injured rookie, like KDawg repeatedly warned everyone of doing and for some reason you've decided to ignore the reasons and examples people have given you so that you can cling to them.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Sip posted 20 screen shots of him being doubled from one game when someone, maybe you, made that absurd claim. Someone, maybe you, said that they were the only one who actually watches the game and saw no more than maybe 8 double teams, were immediately proven wrong, with pictures. Not sure if that was you. If it was then I definitely have no clue why you're still making up bull**** to prove a point that makes no sense. Maybe you had unrealistic expectations about our injured rookie, like KDawg repeatedly warned everyone of doing and for some reason you've decided to ignore the reasons and examples people have given you so that you can cling to them.

 

I don't recall the screen captures and I'm getting a bit tired of being called a liar. I'm telling you I watched the entire Detroit game and saw 4 designed double teams.  If you don't believe me I suggest you watch the game and get back with me.

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I don't recall the screen captures and I'm getting a bit tired of being called a liar. I'm telling you I watched the entire Detroit game and saw 4 designed double teams.  If you don't believe me I suggest you watch the game and get back with me.

Okay there buddy. You got it.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'd like to get this thread back on it's rails now that this sidebar is over (hopefully). 

 

I can't wait to see Chase on Thursday. With the nation watching I hope he blows up big time.  It's kind of all I have to look forward to on game day, I watch him almost exclusively.  

[GOATFrerotte]

17 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

This board is never happy.  If Chase Young had 10 sacks now, people would be upset that he doesn't have 11.  If we won the Super Bowl 42-10, people would be upset that we gave up 10 points. 

 

No matter what it is, It's never enough.

 

That's not true. No one complains about Terry because he does nothing but produce. If Chase had production like 10 sacks we'd all be talking about how great he is. But he doesn't and his numbers are pretty mediocre up to this point.

Edited November 25, 2020 by GOATFrerotte

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

That's not true. No one complains about Terry because he does nothing but produce. If Chase had production like 10 sacks we'd all be talking about how great he is. But he doesn't and his numbers are pretty mediocre up to this point.

 

Are numbers the only thing that matter?  Are numbers the only way to define the impact someone can have on the game, especially on the D-line?

 

What if Terry only has 2 catches for 35 yards, but he lays down two hellacious blocks that spring Gibson for 2 touchdowns?  Do those not count?

[GOATFrerotte]

Just now, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Are numbers the only thing that matter?  Are numbers the only way to define the impact someone can have on the game, especially on the D-line?

 

What if Terry only has 2 catches for 35 yards, but he lays down two hellacious blocks that spring Gibson for 2 touchdowns?  Do those not count?

 

No, numbers aren't all that matters but they are important. Like you'd like to see some production in the backfield like hits on the qb, tackles for loss, pressures, etc. I'm just saying people questioning Chase's pass rushing effectiveness have legitimate concerns and it's not comparable to complaining about him only having 10 sacks because he doesn't. He doesn't really have any numbers that are good enough that would indicate someone is complaining just to complain. 

[wit33]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

That's not the point of my statement, though, and you know it.

Not coming at you in any sort of way, just acknowledging from my fan view he still looks like a freak/generational (meaning I don’t study players like you do). 

 

Quote

 

To most people, generational means dominant. And to most people that watch sports, dominant means stat production.
 

 

Very much a subjective thing to me, generational talent isn’t validated by statistics in year 1. For example, Lebron James was a generational talent and had by far his worst statistical season year 1 and was nowhere close to being dominant compared to the other top players. 
 

If we’re having the same discussion next year the alarms some are sounding will be validated, in my opinion. 

 

 

Quote

 

Young is what I thought he was. An excellent, well developed, pro ready edge guy who is learning the speed and NFL OL tricks of the trade while battling a groin injury. I can't be disappointed with it because he's been as good as I thought he would be:

 

Impactful, above his age, smart, powerful.

 

His knock, to me, was his rush move reportoire in college. I posted about it many times. He has quick hands but college was too easy for him so he didn't develop more than a few moves. That will come. 
 

 

Sounds like you nailed it. 
 

[Skins199021]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

That's not the point of my statement, though, and you know it.

 

To most people, generational means dominant. And to most people that watch sports, dominant means stat production.

 

Young is what I thought he was. An excellent, well developed, pro ready edge guy who is learning the speed and NFL OL tricks of the trade while battling a groin injury. I can't be disappointed with it because he's been as good as I thought he would be:

 

Impactful, above his age, smart, powerful.

 

His knock, to me, was his rush move reportoire in college. I posted about it many times. He has quick hands but college was too easy for him so he didn't develop more than a few moves. That will come. 

This!! And as you know my only argument has ever been that Tua (and Herbert if the FO really believed in him) would have way more of an impact if they were in fact good NFL QBs). People love to interpret this as I think Chase Young sucks, which is not the case at all. And as we all know you don't just get the number 2 pick every year.

 

If Tua never got injured and kept his production going... there is a real possibility Burrow could have gone #2 to us (would have been great).

 

Young will be very good. Perfect world we really hit on a QB in this draft

[OVCChairman]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:19 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

I watched most of the defensive drives just now from yesterday.  I got burnt out, so didn't feel like watching the last 2 drives.  On my count Chase was doubled 16 times leading to those last 2 drives.  And I'd hazard a guess that he ended up doubled 20 times in the end give or take -- if I had the energy to go through the last two drives when the Lions were clearly passing like crazy.

 

Some of these doubles had the running back or TE chip him to help the tackle but most of them were outright 2 guys on him the whole time.   So if Chase is some failure, the rest of the NFL isn't catching on. 😀  That's who the Lions primarily focused on stopping.  So maybe PFF is on to something (Cooley, too) where he's affecting the game even when he isn't loading up on sacks.   I think the sacks will come.  I recall some lamenting about Sweat ironically last year.  Rookie DE's tend to take time.  But at a minimum, its clear as heck opposing offensive coordinators are spooked by him. 

 

I actually noticed some tendencies based on these doubles.  He wasn't typically doubled on running plays or quick 3 step throws that went in the opposite direction of whereever Chase was. 

 

 

 

 

found it, here is the screen grabs of the Detroit game

Edited November 25, 2020 by OVCChairman

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

found it, here is the screen grabs of the Detroit game

Thank you! @Darrell Green Fan   I guess you can stop feeling like you are the only one who watches the games or Chase Young, right? 

[GOATFrerotte]

4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I was done here but I'd be glad to clarify.  I'll illustrate it with bullets so it will be clear. Besides I always wanted to try that function. 

 

• It is not unreasonable for fans to look at a player who was touted as a generational talent, a dominant player, to have made more impactful plays after 11 games.
• I appear to be the only poster who has actually watched the games and counted the double teams, at least for the Detroit game. I'm simply clarifying that the notion that he is constantly facing double and triple teams is completely false. 
• I am obviously in that first group but have made it perfectly clear in several posts that I do not regret the pick and am convinced he will become that player in the future.
• This was somehow was interpreted by you and others to mean I am calling him a bust 11 games into his career when I did the exact opposite.  

 

Agreed, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to hope and expect the #2 can't miss pick in the draft to do something special as a rookie. Like it would be cool to have someone that is top 10 in something or pushing for rookie records. Nick Bosa looked special last year and you could compare his numbers to elite ends who aren't even rookies. Our guy is playing through an injury, getting doubled too much, players around him aren't good enough, etc, etc, etc, etc. 

[Koolblue13]

18 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Agreed, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to hope and expect the #2 can't miss pick in the draft to do something special as a rookie. Like it would be cool to have someone that is top 10 in something or pushing for rookie records. Nick Bosa looked special last year and you could compare his numbers to elite ends who aren't even rookies. Our guy is playing through an injury, getting doubled too much, players around him aren't good enough, etc, etc, etc, etc. 

Bosa had 5 sacks as a rookie, then 8.5 the next year. I think Chase is at the least on that pace, eh?

 

He plays with 4 other first rounders, including our all time sack leader and the injured rookie is drawing the double teams and you don't think that's special?

[lovemaskins]

Not sure why you guys were arguing... obviously the defense stinks and our defensive line is being schemed effectively by opposing coordinators.  Quick passes running up the middle etc... plus no linebackers or safeties nullifies his or or any other d-lineman's skillset. Some of you dont realize the effect good linebacker play has on a dline.

[GOATFrerotte]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Bosa had 5 sacks as a rookie, then 8.5 the next year. I think Chase is at the least on that pace, eh?

 

He plays with 4 other first rounders, including our all time sack leader and the injured rookie is drawing the double teams and you don't think that's special?

 

Wrong Bosa and no, I don't think what he's done is special at all

 

Edit: I just looked up the other Bosa and he had 10.5 sacks as a rookie so you have the wrong guy completely.

Edited November 25, 2020 by GOATFrerotte

[PartyPosse]

Chase should have gone undrafted. He’s generational all right. Generational BUST!

Edited November 25, 2020 by PartyPosse

[Koolblue13]

We're the number one passing defense. You people are on crazy pills!

 

We're full of holes, still giving up the big plays too often, don't have a starting safety or LB on the team and we're a very good defense. 

 

This is not the thread to **** and moan about the team. It's like going to a TMac thread to wine about the offense production. 

 

Un ****ing real.

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We're the number one passing defense. You people are on crazy pills!

 

We're full of holes, still giving up the big plays too often, don't have a starting safety or LB on the team and we're a very good defense. 

 

This is not the thread to **** and moan about the team. It's like going to a TMac thread to wine about the offense production. 

 

Un ****ing real.

Please dont compare Chase to Terry, Chase isn't a comparable player at this moment. 

[TheShredder]

19 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Is it bad that this is what im hoping for? If he doesn't have an underlying injury he's pretty far away from being a dominant pass-rushing force. 

You don't have to wonder 'if' he isn't 100% as the documented injuries dictate a non-questionable treatment regimen depending on the decision to play or have surgery.  Since the first MRI revealed a hip-flexor injury it equates to a weak hinge point.  This is a guy with massively over-grown upper and lower body mass.  The common issue with athletes is that the hinge is vulnerable at the core.  The fact only weeks later that he experienced another core injury isn't mysterious but connected as these muscle are among the same core muscle group.  The hip-flexor is deeper than the dilated superficial ring of the inguinal canal or 'groin injury'.  Summary is that he has not nor will not be playing at 100% his rookie year.  Unfortunately, a third occurrence likely shuts him down and goes directly under the knife for definitive repairs.  However, if his snap volume is managed and he's warming up completely then he can play to pain tolerance.  If you've never had this injury then let me tell you when you aggravate it. it burns like fire and you can feel it bleeding down your leg.  i have done it twice and never had surgery the second time, opting to instead build up the core to mask the tear.  He'll most likely need an internal repair and +3 months of core strengthening.  My guess is he's probably between 80%-90% most the time he's on the field and when you see them sit him down for a series or several snaps in a row, he's managing these issues.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

You don't have to wonder 'if' he isn't 100% as the documented injuries dictate a non-questionable treatment regimen depending on the decision to play or have surgery.  Since the first MRI revealed a hip-flexor injury it equates to a weak hinge point.  This is a guy with massively over-grown upper and lower body mass.  The common issue with athletes is that the hinge is vulnerable at the core.  The fact only weeks later that he experienced another core injury isn't mysterious but connected as these muscle are among the same core muscle group.  The hip-flexor is deeper than the dilated superficial ring of the inguinal canal or 'groin injury'.  Summary is that he has not nor will not be playing at 100% his rookie year.  Unfortunately, a third occurrence likely shuts him down and goes directly under the knife for definitive repairs.  However, if his snap volume is managed and he's warming up completely then he can play to pain tolerance.  If you've never had this injury then let me tell you when you aggravate it. it burns like fire and you can feel it bleeding down your leg.  i have done it twice and never had surgery the second time, opting to instead build up the core to mask the tear.  He'll most likely need an internal repair and +3 months of core strengthening.  My guess is he's probably between 80%-90% most the time he's on the field and when you see them sit him down for a series or several snaps in a row, he's managing these issues.  

Wow this is fantastic info, thank you! So what kind of concerns me is that Chase might not elect surgery and just think that all it needs is rest. Do players typically go this route, or do they almost always get surgery? 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[TheShredder]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

His knock, to me, was his rush move reportoire in college. I posted about it many times. He has quick hands but college was too easy for him so he didn't develop more than a few moves. That will come. 

I think he's played 8 games, so half a season and at around 80-90% so the real eye test and evaluation is going to have to wait until next year.  The experience he's gaining and tape to evaluate will serve him well coming back at 100% with a refined technique for sure. 

4 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Wow this is fantastic info, thank you! So what kind of concerns me is that Chase might not elect surgery and just think that all it needs is rest. Do players typically go this route, or do they almost always get surgery? 

They always have surgery.  That's the easy part and doesn't solve the problem.  The source is the weaker hinge.  So, you'd address the leaning out of the upper and lower body with core strengthening focus.  You might expect to her Chase Young drops weight and looks faster as a headline next year.