No Excuses Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, volsmet said: Why didn’t Minnesota improve when they moved from Keenum to Kirk? Yes why did the 6-2 Vikings, making the playoffs in back-to-back years, not improve as a team by letting go off Case Keenum, QB of the juggernauts Denver Broncos and Washington Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Yes why did the 6-2 Vikings, making the playoffs in back-to-back years, not improve as a team by letting go off Case Keenum, QB of the juggernauts Denver Broncos and Washington Redskins. It’s interesting when humans struggle to carry on a rational conversation. I did not aim to get you so deep into your emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, volsmet said: It’s interesting when humans struggle to carry on a rational conversation. I did not aim to get you so deep into your emotions. Mental gymnastics isn't rationality, as much as you want to believe it is. Here's something rational: Kirk is going to make the playoffs in back-to-back seasons and the Redskins were 2 yards away from losing to the Dolphins. One franchise decided that being competitive with Kirk is a good idea, and the other decided that letting go off Kirk is a good idea so we can *checks notes*, go through FIVE! starting QB's and waste multiple draft picks trying to replace him, resources that could have been spent on other positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmania123 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 @No Excuses I completely agree with your post regarding Cousin's. What I think people fail to see is how he has worked to improve his skill set. It helps having O line protection and a solid running game and dependable receivers. Being with the Vikings is the ideal situation for him. He has to shed at least one more albatross - the consistently beating teams over .500, and winning playoff games. But I am seeing more flexibility with him and that is necessary if your going to be effective and play at a high level as a QB in the NFL. And as an aside your quote from the book Sagan The-Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, comes from one of my favorite books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, No Excuses said: Mental gymnastics isn't rationality, as much as you want to believe it is. Here's something rational: Kirk is going to make the playoffs in back-to-back seasons and the Redskins were 2 yards away from losing to the Dolphins. One franchise decided that being competitive with Kirk is a good idea, and the other decided that letting go off Kirk is a good idea so we can *checks notes*, go through FIVE! starting QB's and waste multiple draft picks trying to replace him, resources that could have been spent on other positions. You claiming something is mental gymnastics, or irrational, doesn’t make it so. You’re more emotionally invested in this than I can imagine being over anything, it’s legitimately fascinating. 7 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said: @No Excuses I completely agree with your post regarding Cousin's. What I think people fail to see is how he has worked to improve his skill set. It helps having O line protection and a solid running game and dependable receivers. Being with the Vikings is the ideal situation for him. He has to shed at least one more albatross - the consistently beating teams over .500, and winning playoff games. But I am seeing more flexibility with him and that is necessary if your going to be effective and play at a high level as a QB in the NFL. And as an aside your quote from the book Sagan The-Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark, comes from one of my favorite books. 4 weeks ago the Cousins move was considered an abject failure, for the Vikings, by everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, volsmet said: You claiming something is mental gymnastics, or irrational, doesn’t make it so. You’re more emotionally invested in this than I can imagine being over anything, it’s legitimately fascinating. My dude, ad hominem attacks are weak sauce stuff and a bad look. Just my 2c. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Just now, No Excuses said: My dude, ad hominem attacks are weak sauce stuff and a bad look. Just my 2c. You’re struggling, but hope that post makes you feel better. Enjoy your day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsb84 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 No, but the trade/signing of Alex Smith made no sense to me. The money given to Smith was outrageously high (as was the trade to acquire him) and the return was never going to be equal to the cost. And now it certainly wont be as Smith probably never plays again. The same can be said for Cousins and the contract he took. He's doing exactly what he did in DC, middle of the road numbers with some brain farts. Not worth the salary cap hit, either of them. Cousins/Smith are at their best when they are complimentary, not center pieces. I did like the Keenum trade (reasonable salary cap hit for performance and not a steep price to acquire him), but the cap being eaten up by Smith prevents the Skins from getting any depth signed. I also dont see the Skins with anyone capable of properly developing Haskins. This team will continue to be rudderless for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I don't think it is a reach to have predicted Cousins would be successful with the Vikings. Case was, Bridgewater was before his injury. The Vikings are a solidly built team, that is sort of the key here. Cousins is on a team and in a situation built to win. What he is doing right now should come as a surprise to no one. It's not like he didn't have good performances as a Redskins either. I was always of the opinion that you could win with Cousins, but not because of Cousins. Now yes, if the alternative to Cousins is a green rookie or 2 career journeyman, of course Cousins would look good in comparison. Our front office's ineptitude aside, Cousins is who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: The Vikings are a solidly built team, that is sort of the key here. One of the primary arguments was that you can't build a solid team around his contract. Yet the Vikings haven't boarded up their building yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: One of the primary arguments was that you can't build a solid team around his contract. Yet the Vikings haven't boarded up their building yet. You can build a solid team around any contract, but paying a guy like Kirk makes it more difficult, obviously. You see New Orleans go 5-0 with Brees on the bench, that team is built to win with or without him. Keenum has the 2nd highest QBR in football when he was in Minnesota - the running game & WRs have only improved since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I regret he wasn't traded in 2017. I would have regretted if we paid what Minny paid to get him. I don't regret he's no longer on the team. Optimistic Haskins can still turn into what we want/need him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: One of the primary arguments was that you can't build a solid team around his contract. Yet the Vikings haven't boarded up their building yet. I think the argument was that the Redskins couldn't build a team around him with that contract. Even if it wasn't, the Vikes had all of this in place before Cousins got there. He was the cherry on top not the main ingredient. And I think thats the key to their success. Im not so sure its impossible now though. If they as a group can keep this level of play even if they lose a few pieces then that would be impressive. His next contract will be big too. If takes a deal, they are SET for success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 34 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: One of the primary arguments was that you can't build a solid team around his contract. Yet the Vikings haven't boarded up their building yet. I thought the argument was more about it creating a small window for Cousins to get the job done with the Vikings on that specific contract. If the Vikes don't win a championship by next season, do you think they will sign him to a similar fully guaranteed contract worth the same? If not, what does Cousins do? Does he walk and try to find guaranteed money elsewhere, or does he stay and negotiate a more moderate contract. A franchise can withstand most any contract on a short term basis, it is more what happens when other contracts start coming up and other players on the team are looking to get paid as well. That is when Cousins's contract comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyKillerz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, No Excuses said: Mental gymnastics isn't rationality, as much as you want to believe it is. Here's something rational: Kirk is going to make the playoffs in back-to-back seasons and the Redskins were 2 yards away from losing to the Dolphins. One franchise decided that being competitive with Kirk is a good idea, and the other decided that letting go off Kirk is a good idea so we can *checks notes*, go through FIVE! starting QB's and waste multiple draft picks trying to replace him, resources that could have been spent on other positions. Kirk led a talent packed Vikings team... Home for the playoffs last year. Back to back? He still needs to get there this year, much less back to back. 4 weeks ago his WR wanted a trade and others were questioning his on field play. He had big games with a stud RB making life easy. I dont wish failure on the guy but he has NOT lived up to the Vikes expectations for THAT big of a contract. Short answer: no. Longer answer: Didnt we get a 3rd round comp pick for him? From what I recall thats as good as anything we were offered. Regardless, he didnt want to be here and had a pultry record vs the enemy (dullass) of 1-6?!? **** that. **** him. And of course **** DULLASS - bye Felicia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, CowboyKillerz said: Regardless, he didnt want to be here and had a pultry record vs the enemy (dullass) of 1-6?!? **** that. **** him. And of course **** DULLASS - bye Felicia Weren't you "CowboyKillerzRGIII" on another message board a few years ago? If so, I totally understand your irrational hatred for Cousins...but why not Lamar Jackson as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Lol with a decent defense not one that would give up a 3rd and 20 so easily those “mediocre” record seasons would be 10+ win ones with cousins the reality is he isnt a 30 million dollar qb but we coulda signed him for 20 million easily thats the biggest regret for me. If you dont believe Cousins isnt a 20 million dollar qb and cant win in this league im sorry you are simply wrong its hard to find a qb that can play on his level and i understand this team hasnt had a decent qb in forever outside of him so i dont blame the fans who were ok with not paying him and letting him walk because they have no clue what decent qb play is since this team has never produced it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, CowboyKillerz said: Kirk led a talent packed Vikings team... Home for the playoffs last year. Back to back? He still needs to get ther this year much less back to back. 4 weeks ago his WR wanted a trade and others were questioning his on field play. He had big games with a stud RB making life easy. I dont wish failure on the guy but he has NOT lived up to the Vikes expectations for THAT big of a contract. Quarterbacks thrive on good teams, especially with a good supporting cast. What an incredibly novel concept. The most Redskins thing is demanding that a quarterback not only be good, but he must be good while being surrounded by a complete and utter poop of a supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyKillerz Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 So whats the pass he gets on NOT making the playoffs last year? Uber talented D, one of the best wrs duos and probowl TE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, CowboyKillerz said: Kirk led a talent packed Vikings team... Home for the playoffs last year. Back to back? He still needs to get there this year, much less back to back. @No Excuses left reality behind as emotion took the wheel. I feel fortunate to have missed this discussion the first time around. 2 minutes ago, CowboyKillerz said: So whats the pass he gets on NOT making the playoffs last year? According to NE, he was the super bowl mvp last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 We didn't let him go. He escaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Hooper said: We didn't let him go. He escaped. This is right. In many ways, this thread is like the dude who pretends he didn’t get dumped, when everyone knows he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSurrender Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Not in the least bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, No Excuses said: this thread is like the dude who pretends he didn’t get dumped, when everyone knows he did. Finally, the ES has an inside source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Llevron said: I think the argument was that the Redskins couldn't build a team around him with that contract. I don't disagree at all, I just don't really recall the Redskins FO being a huge liability being part of the soup back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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