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    • By Destino in ES Coverage
         1
      We’re still doing this?  Absolutely!  Despite all the compelling reasons to just let everyone go home and enjoy and extended offseason, this is not an option.  The games must be played, and therefore we the long-suffering fans will feel compelled to watch.  Even games no reasonable football fan would choose to watch like, for example, today’s Redskins Jets game.   

      Today’s convergence of sadness features the 30th ranked scoring offense (Jets 14.4 ppg) versus the 32nd (Redskins 12.0 ppg).  The first team to 15 wins!  With no playoff aspirations the compelling story lines for this game are largely limited to watching young players (hopefully) develop.  Dwayne Haskins gets his first home start and Derrius Guice is back from injury.   
       
      My, reasonable, goals for today’s game:  
      1- Score a touchdown 
      2- Score more than 17 points.   
      3- Haskins throws for 200 yards or more with no interceptions  
      4- Guice runs the ball at least 10 times and finishes at 3.5 yards per carry and healthy.  
       
      Hoping for a win at this point feels like setting myself up for disappointment, so I’m happy to settle for an entertaining loss.  
       
      Special thanks to @pez for some excellent Guinness beef stew.  If you absolutely have to stand in a frozen parking lot at 9am, the best place to do it is at the Extremeskins Tailgate with Pez and @Huly.  Great fans, great people. 
       
      The Redskins have declared for the following players as inactive: 
      Paul Richardson  
      Colt McCoy 
      Deshazor Everett 
      Chris Thompson  
      Ross Pierschbacher 
      Vernon Davis  
      Tim Settle  
       
      The Jets declared the following players as inactive  
      Nate Hairston  
      Darryl Roberts  
      Paul Worrilow 
      Matthias Farley  
      CJ Mosley  
      Jordan Willis  
      Leo Koloamatangi 
       
      1st Quarter - Redskins 0 - 6 Jets
      If you wanted to sit in the cold and watch a football game with some Jets fans at FedEx, but were worried that there were not enough seats available, I have good news.  There’s plenty of space available, so come on down and prove you’re a real fan by sitting though this in person.
       
      Jets dominated the 1st quarter even though they only scored 6 points.  The reason being that Washington managed only 13 yards of offense and a single first down.  
       
      Question: Is it still a check down pass if the QB never looks at anyone else?
       
      2nd Quarter - Redskins 3 - 20 Jets
      The Jets have achieved an insurmountable 13 point lead early in the 2nd quarter.  All hope is lost.

      Is there a more perfect example of the Redskins offense than their first scoring drive in the 2nd quarter?  Interception gives the Redskins the ball on the Jets 16 yard line.  They proceed to march 10 yards backwards before kicking a field goal from the Jets 26.  It's perfect.  Two or three more field goals we can call it a day. 

      The Jets score again and if feels like they are are just piling on at this point.  Three touchdowns in the first half for them, just three points for the redskins.  Our streak of no touchdowns has now extended to 15 quarters. 
       
      3rd Quarter - Redskins 3 - 20 Jets
      There is a spider slowly descending from the ceiling in the press box and it's the most interesting thing that's happened during the third quarter of this game. 
       
      I have decided to allow the spider to live, provided it does not touch me.  I'm off to get some more caffeine. 

      4th Quarter - Redskins 17 - 34 Jets
      The first wave of Redskins fans, the few that are here, started streaming towards the exits after that 4th Jets touchdown.  As if the Jets didn't have this game wrapped up in the 2nd quarter. 
       
      Jet have now more than doubled their average points per game and have matched their season high of 34 points (and they missed two field goals in this game). 
       
      TOUCHDOWN REDSKINS!  THE DROUGHT IT OVER!  Guice took a short pass from Haskins  all the way to the house.  2 point conversion is successful on a pass from Haskins to Quinn. 
       
      The Redskins score another touchdown!  This feels like an embarrassment of riches, even if we are still certain to lose this game. 
       
      End of Game.
       
      Let's review those reasonable goals I mentioned earlier:
       
      1- Success.
      2- Close enough, I'm counting it
      3- Haskins did throw for over 200, but unfortunately did have an interception. 
      4- Guice was not given the opportunity to run the ball ten times today.  He did however score on a 45 yard TD pass and finish the game healthy.  I'll take it.
       
      Even though the Redskins lost, it was good to see the offense show some faint signs of life and end the streak of games without a TD.  The team looked competitive for much of the second half, and perhaps they could have made this a fun game if they carried that same energy throughout.  It was good to see Guice and Mclaurin show out today.  I think both of them have a future with this team that I look forward to seeing. 

       
       

       
       
       
       
       
PCS

Welcome to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I know it's late to ask this question, and also late not to know the answer,

but was Jay 100% on board with picking Haskins at 15 ?

 

No way to know.  My gut based on all the narratives I heard is he wasn't Jay's guy but he wasn't opposed when it was pushed on him from above. 

 

The national-local beat-radio guys (Hoffman, Keim, Finlay, Paulsen, Sheehan, Garfalo, Russini) more or less said Jay wanted a pass rusher at 15 and not a Qb period.  Some of those same guys said that if they did go QB, Haskins wasn't his top guy.  The same reporters though said once Haskins was picked Jay was on board and excited to see what he can do with his talent -- and was pleased they took Sweat so everyone in that building won so to speak.

 

What the reality is -- who knows?  But as I've been saying here even if Haskins wasn't Jay's guy initially -- if he's into making it work now, that's good enough for me for the time being. 

 

The only narrative that I can recall of Haskins being Jay's guy was told by the WP but that was a retrospect story after the pick.  As some who covered the story at the time said, Jay is going to have to say he was his guy all along once he was taken.  Agree, talk about a disaster if ANY HC gives any player the impression that this dude wasn't their guy.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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8 hours ago, KDawg said:

But I think I would break the mold of the way teams treat preseason anyways. My "starters" don't necessarily start. I use my whole roster whenever I want (with guys I limit their total reps for, likely all the projected starters) so I can get a look how things jive. I don't care if my projected starter is going against a 4th string DB. I'm not looking to evaluate them in that way. I want to see how they execute. Who jives with who. Who has a firm understanding of the play book.  

 

I think our offense is in flux too.  TBH, the only three positions with firm starters are the OTs and RG. 

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Posted (edited)

As one of the lead haters here of the NY Giants.   I do love the Giants rejecting Haskins narrative as fuel to the rivalry.  Haskins really went to town lobbying to play there -- if you watch interviews there were a bunch were he talked about it.  One where he ever wore a giants helmet when offered.  He worked out multiple times with Giants gear.  And I read somewhere that he even reached out to Giants players on twitter to push it.

 

And we have people like Russini saying she covers the Giants and she knew the Giants didn't dig Haskins in spite of what was being said publicly.  Multiple NY beat guys said Haskins wasn't even their backup pick to Jones but that was Drew Lock.

 

And Haskins has flat out said being rejected by his boyhood favorite team will be a motivator especially when he plays against them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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The national-local beat-radio guys (Hoffman, Keim, Finlay, Paulsen, Sheehan, Garfalo, Russini) more or less said Jay wanted a pass rusher at 15 and not a Qb period. 

 

Now why would Jay not want a QB? lol....this narrative IMO was false. Or I don't care, WE got both. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

The national-local beat-radio guys (Hoffman, Keim, Finlay, Paulsen, Sheehan, Garfalo, Russini) more or less said Jay wanted a pass rusher at 15 and not a Qb period. 

 

Now why would Jay not want a QB? lol....this narrative IMO was false. Or I don't care, WE got both. 

 

 

tenor.gif

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

The national-local beat-radio guys (Hoffman, Keim, Finlay, Paulsen, Sheehan, Garfalo, Russini) more or less said Jay wanted a pass rusher at 15 and not a Qb period. 

 

Now why would Jay not want a QB? lol....this narrative IMO was false. Or I don't care, WE got both. 

 

 

 

Their take was Jay wasn't in love with any of the QBs sans Murray and would rather upgrade the roster around Keenum-Colt.  I'd dismiss it but that's a lot of people to be wrong -- Keim in particular isn't the type to just throw crap against the wall.  Having said that, if that narrative is true I'd only worry about Jay if he had a grudge or a beef about what went down and the same reporters have said he's cool with it especially after they got Sweat.  So got no fears related to Jay.

 

So my only small fear is Haskins becomes Dan's new bowling buddy like the last first round QB.  :ols:  While there are conflicting reports about whether Dan drove the pick -- there is nothing that i've seen that doesn't paint the picture that Dan has some man crush at least on some level on Haskins.   

 

So stay cool Dan.  

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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If Daniel Jones had gone to Bullis we’d have needed to trade our next 3 first rounders. Divine intervention.

 

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23 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

^

rookie camp clip

 

Skins really focusing on fundamentals.

"Find the ball. Find the ball. Find the ball."

I'm thinking he had to be talking to the DB... And he never turned his head around. 😂 

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13 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Gif overload is making all these threads pretty obnoxious to read. 

 

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If Jay thinks he can win with ****ing Keenum and McCoy he shouldn’t be a head coach.

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5 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

The stuff I’ve pointed out rationally that get pushed back on emotionally. Haskins is atrocious with pressure, he’s very awkward, he’s not a natural passer when he’s off platform - though he’s always got the arm that gives him a chance to get a ball in the area. He misses more passes by 4+ yards than most, everything breaks down from his feet, hips, arm & shoulders when pressure is introduced. I don’t care one way or another, but observing reality bothers some here. 

 

Haskins will get what’s protected & schemed up — and you can scheme up an enormous chunk of the field because of his arm - he won’t be able to improvise in a league that is relying on more of it & he’s got to get his body in sync when he’s forced off his natural shuffle. That’s ok, it’s doable, it’s nothing against Haskins, it’s just what’s indisputably in his tape. 

 

 

OSU fan here, Ive seen Haskins play enough to tell you that while you have some good insights about some of Haskins weaknesses, you lose a lot of credibility when you exxagerate and call him "atrocious" under pressure.  Try to avoid over the top language if you want people to take you seriously.

 

The only part of Haskins game thats atrocious is his straightline speed.  Everything else is, at worst, about what one would expect out of an unexperienced quarterback.

 

As far under pressure, atrocious is a ridiculous description.  Overall, he is about average for a 1st year college starter, in terms of handling pressure. 

 

He is actually above average if that pressure comes from the blitz, because he has a lightning release, makes quick decisions, and is very good at identifying blitzes and making appropriate adjustments.  Granted, he was aided by Ryan Days scheme, which can eat alive man defenses and blitz heavy schemes.  But he ran that scheme well, and deservds credit for it.

 

 He did well enough against the blitz, that by the end of the year, most opposing coaches shied away from blitzing him.   Jim Harbaugh and his #1 defense chose to run a curious scheme of man defense while only rushing 4, largely I imagine because they knew Haskins can handle the blitz pretty well.

 

Where Haskins does fall apart under pressure is when that pressure comes from the front 4.  Without a hole created by a blitzing defender for him to exploit, Haskins does appear to...panic..if facing pressure from the front4.  He definitely must vastly improve this aspect of his game before he can be a starter.  Its also why he I would never put him behind a bad oline, he needs at least an average oline in order to be effective.

 

Luckily, even when Haskins is flustered by pressure, he still wont throw an interception, more likely he will miss an open receiver by a country mile or take an ugly sack.  Which is the final reason that the word atrocious is an exaggeration --at least he doesnt start turning the ball over when facing pressure.

 

Finally, if your scheme is to only rush4 behind man coverage, and that rush fails to get there, Haskins will tear you up.  Just ask Michigan.  If you rush 4 behind zone defense, and the rush doesnt get there, Haskins will methodically tear you up, like he did in the Rose Bowl when he put up 600 yds passing and 5 TDs. 

 

Bottom line is that he does well enough against the blitz, is mobile enough in the pocket, and is good enough to exploit rush4 concepts that fail to get pressure, that the word atrocious is truly objectionable : ill give you below average, maybe, but even then its something he can overcome.  The word atrocious is for those who are irredeemably bad at handling pressure, Patrick Ramsey after 1 year of Spurrier, for example.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

If Jay thinks he can win with ****ing Keenum and McCoy he shouldn’t be a head coach.

 Bro Keemun literally took the Vikings to the NFC Championship game two seasons ago.

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Their take was Jay wasn't in love with any of the QBs sans Murray and would rather upgrade the roster around Keenum-Colt.  I'd dismiss it but that's a lot of people to be wrong -- Keim in particular isn't the type to just throw crap against the wall.  Having said that, if that narrative is true I'd only worry about Jay if he had a grudge or a beef about what went down and the same reporters have said he's cool with it especially after they got Sweat.  So got no fears related to Jay.

 

So my only small fear is Haskins doesn't become Dan's new bowling buddy like the last first round QB.  :ols:  While there are conflicting reports about whether Dan drove the pick -- there is nothing that i've seen that doesn't paint the picture that Dan has some man crush at least on some level on Haskins.   

 

So stay cool Dan.  

 

 

If Jays plan was to leave the future of this franchise in the hands of Case Keenum and Colt Mccoy, then Jay should be banned from even entering another draft discussion.

 

If he was partial to a plan that included trading for a QB and using the draft picks on other areas of pressing need, then Id say he was pretty wise, except i  the case that Haskins or Lock would fall to us at 15.  In that case, if he really thinks that we should still have reached for a pass rusher at 15, then he needs to be banned from future draft discussions. 

 

We lucked out, it happens that the BPA also filled our biggest need.  I dont see how Jay could really have a problem with that, unless he rreally thinks Haskjns is trash.  I havent heard anyone, not a sinfle so called expert, that doesnt think we made the right move at 15.  

 

But absent a trade, surely Jay didnt really think it was a good idea to just roll out Case and Colt for the next few years.  Surely.

9 minutes ago, DieHardSkins88 said:

 Bro Keemun literally took the Vikings to the NFC Championship game two seasons ago.

And he also took Denver to the bottom of division last year while ruining what was left John Elways reputation as a manager.  Whats your point?

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Is anyone else excited to see Haskins in his new uni?  It seems like most newer qbs coming into the league are 6’1 or 6’2. It’s nice to have a tall qb in the fold. Someone who can look over the lineman and throw over the top instead of having to find passing lanes. I’m excited to hear how he is coming along in camp. 

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4 minutes ago, Koala said:

If Jays plan was to leave the future of this franchise in the hands of Case Keenum and Colt Mccoy, then Jay should be banned from even entering another draft discussion.

 

If he was partial to a plan that included trading for a QB and using the draft picks on other areas of pressing need, then Id say he was pretty wise, except i  the case that Haskins or Lock would fall to us at 15.  In that case, if he really thinks that we should still have reached for a pass rusher at 15, then he needs to be banned from future draft discussions. 

 

We lucked out, it happens that the BPA also filled our biggest need.  I dont see how Jay could really have a problem with that, unless he rreally thinks Haskjns is trash.  I havent heard anyone, not a sinfle so called expert, that doesnt think we made the right move at 15.  

 

But absent a trade, surely Jay didnt really think it was a good idea to just roll out Case and Colt for the next few years.  Surely.

And he also took Denver to the bottom of division last year while ruining what was left John Elways reputation as a manager.  Whats your point?

That you can win with Keemun, obviously.

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19 minutes ago, Koala said:

OSU fan here, Ive seen Haskins play enough to tell you that while you have some good insights about some of Haskins weaknesses, you lose a lot of credibility when you exxagerate and call him "atrocious" under pressure.  Try to avoid over the top language if you want people to take you seriously.

 

 

First of all, you aren’t qualified to comment on anyone’s credibility. Secondly, my points are backed up by pff’s numbers. 3rdly, being a fan doesn’t give you more access to Haskins film. Finally, Urban worked for my uncle & is dear friends with him. 

 

🤫

 

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I will admit I’m baffled by the fact that a QB who completed 70% of his passes with 50 touchdowns and less than ten interceptions can be described as atrocious under pressure, inaccurate, and a guy who misses a boatload of passes. 

 

I just don’t get how the former can reconcile with the latter. 

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1 minute ago, Burgold said:

I will admit I’m baffled by the fact that a QB who completed 70% of his passes with 50 touchdowns and less than ten interceptions can be described as atrocious under pressure

 

He was infrequently under pressure at Ohio state. The other comments are from others, the one I made is backed up, clearly, by pff. I don’t see how it’s possible to simply dismiss their analytics. Numbers are unbiased.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

He was infrequently under pressure at Ohio state. The other comments are from others, the one I made is backed up, clearly, by pff. I don’t see how it’s possible to simply dismiss their analytics. Numbers are unbiased.

Not necessarily. For instance, if he recognizes pressure quickly he might throw a pass earlier than other QBs. Remember how often RGIII was pressured vs Kirk with the same line? 

 

Better field vision and awareness might stop a play play from being pressured and so would not count even if for most QBs it would. 

 

You may be right. I just look at the totality of his production, performance, and stats and think... that doesn’t look like I guy who folds/gets shaken easily. 

Edited by Burgold
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Was PFF the group that said he has such a small sample size that its hard to make a determination one way or the other? And if he didnt face pressure alot anyway, then wouldn't the sample size be even smaller? 

 

Math is dumb 

 

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17 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Not necessarily. For instance, if he recognizes pressure quickly he might throw a pass earlier than other QBs. Remember how often RGIII was pressured vs Kirk with the same line? 

 

Better field vision and awareness might stop a play play from being pressured and so would not count even if for most QBs it would. 

 

You may be right. I just look at the totality of his production, performance, and stats and think... that doesn’t look like I guy who folds/gets shaken easily. 

 

Definitely. I absolutely think he’s great at recognizing what he wants to do pre-snap & post snap. I think he typically “stays on his #1 read too long” when he knows that #1 is going to get open... I don’t think he stares down guys like some criticize him for. 

 

He can help avoid pressure with his cerebral game, but his movements are awkward when pressure gets there & the tempo of his upper half struggles to stay aligned with his lower half which causes passes to sail. I don’t know the analytics on his pressure %, but watching the games I don’t recall seeing many QB’s who were under less duress throughout a season. 

 

Haskins is special when protected, he has advantages that you get at Ohio State, but to play with those advantages he had to beat out other incredible players & keep them off. You can’t face much more mental pressure than taking over at OSU, as a pure pocket passer, with limited experience, a suspended coach, & Tate Martell waiting to take over. 

 

Guys like Lock & Murray, who played other sports at an extraordinarily high level, are typically better with the more athletic looking throws, it gives them an advantage that Haskins is unlikely to ever recover, but he’s special in a clean pocket, he’s patient, he can move defenders, he can fit the ball into tight windows, he can get the ball out quickly enough for guys to do something with it. His gifts are profound, his weaknesses are why he fell, but you can protect a QB, if we make sure he’s protected, we may very well have something incredibly special. 

 

He will be prepared, it will be on the staff & FO to make sure his gifts can thrive in DC. Martin may be the 2nd most important pick... I say that as the biggest Montez fan on the board. 

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