US and Iran Relations (News and Discussion)

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Skintime]

1 hour ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Man I wish we could just wipe the ME out.  Like obviously that’s not diplomatic and or realistic as you have lots of totally innocent people there but the world would be 50% safer. 

You'll have to find a way to make the world get off oil then.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Skintime

[redskins59]

The question is, it is oil, or is it religion that makes the middle east the most important region in the world? 

Even back in the days when oil wasn't so important, they were launching the crusades.

[twa]

8 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

The question is, it is oil, or is it religion that makes the middle east the most important region in the world? 

Even back in the days when oil wasn't so important, they were launching the crusades.

 

Location is a major factor, even with modern transport.

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

 

🙄

[Skintime]

36 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

The question is, it is oil, or is it religion that makes the middle east the most important region in the world? 

Even back in the days when oil wasn't so important, they were launching the crusades.

Combination of the two?

2 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

 

 

 

🙄

This administration ****s up everything they touch.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

52 minutes ago, redskins59 said:

The question is, it is oil, or is it religion that makes the middle east the most important region in the world? 

Even back in the days when oil wasn't so important, they were launching the crusades.

The crusades were about conquering land. Religion was an excuse / recruiting tool / propaganda.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[RichmondRedskin88]

56 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Having thoughts of wiping out the Middle East is cringeworthy. And why stop there?? Let’s just take out every place we perceive as the cause for bad stuff, which we can arbitrarily decide. 
 

Seriously though, we had two world wars cause of Europe, but taking out the Middle East makes us safer? It’s a ****ed up notion all the way around. Power corrupts everywhere. That’s the problem.

Has there been a region that has caused more chaos among the world over the last 50-100 years?  I’m actually being nice only going back that far.  Has there been a region that has spewed more hate and intolerance?  Ffs they wonder if women will be able to attend the World Cup.   You are talking about isolated incidents.  Middle East has been this way forever and will always be that way.  You cannot make irrational people think rational especially in masses. 

[NoCalMike]

"The cost of doing nothing would be enormous"

 

"The people of Iran will view this as giving them freedom"

 

Even I didn't expect such lazy recycled talking points from the lead up to the Iraq War, you know, the one Trump claims to have disagreed with. 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

 

 

[Riggo-toni]

39 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Has there been a region that has caused more chaos among the world over the last 50-100 years?  I’m actually being nice only going back that far.  Has there been a region that has spewed more hate and intolerance? 

Middle East has been this way forever and will always be that way. 

Up until the twentieth century and the advent of Zionism, Jews were far safer in Muslim controlled countries than any Christian country in Europe. Islamic scholars like Averroes and Avicenna were far more advanced than any of their counterparts in Europe. Medical texts were made by translating works from Arabic.

The moderating voices in Islam came primarily from the Persians. Even when the Ottomans and Safavids were in conflict, many vizier's and court officials in Istanbul were Persian or Jewish. Likewise, the greatest medieval Jewish scholars, Saadia Gaon and Maimonides lived in Muslim caliphates. It probably wasn't until Spinoza that Christian Europe tolerated a Jewish scholars, and that was after his family was expelled from Spain.

Since the 1979 revolution, the Persians have gone from being a moderate, modernizing force to advocates for Khomeini's vision of fundamentalist Islamic rule.

 

The Saudis, partly in an effort to stem the rise of Shiite Iranian influence, partly in paranoia of their own Shiite population rising up in areas near the richest oilfields (where they, not the Wahhabi, are a majority), but mostly to curry favor with the Ulama who have helped keep the House of Saud in power since the kingdom's establishment, have spread their toxic, intolerant version of Wahhabist/Salafist Islam around the world. Our supposed allies are, thanks to oil riches, the driving force behind the horrors of Islamo-fascism.

 

More than a century ago, Lawrence of Arabia warned against putting the Saudis in power, but his British superiors didn't listen. Perhaps if they had kept the Hashemites in power in Arabia instead of shipping them off to TransJordan and Iraq, the Middle East would not be the volatile disaster it is today. And perhaps if the US had not launched a coup against Mossadeq, Iran would not have turned to the likes of Khomeini.

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Riggo-toni

[Larry]

Yeah, this whole notion that the Mideast has been the source of all the problems in the world for thousands of years isn't the whole story.  

 

Although I love the poetic phrase:

 

15 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

Up until the twentieth century and the advent of Zionism

 

Why do I have the feeling that that's another way of saying "Up until we decided to magically create Israel"?  

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Has there been a region that has caused more chaos among the world over the last 50-100 years? 

 

Do you know how any people died as a result of World War II?  Was that started in the Middle East?

[RichmondRedskin88]

20 minutes ago, Larry said:

Yeah, this whole notion that the Mideast has been the source of all the problems in the world for thousands of years isn't the whole story.  

 

Although I love the poetic phrase:

 

 

Why do I have the feeling that that's another way of saying "Up until we decided to magically create Israel"?  

No one is saying they are the source of all problems.  However we can’t exactly ignore how they harbor extremists and terrorists.  If they were simply battling each other and leaving everyone else out the world would go “ok y’all have fun over there killing each other.”  But they don’t.  The groups they allow in their countries commit attacks on other sections of the world.   Groups like Isis that have no tolerance for anyone.    People love to use the Bible to spew hate these days like the Middle East uses the Quran but the difference is one is ready to blow themselves up to get a point across.

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Has there been a region that has caused more chaos among the world over the last 50-100 years?  I’m actually being nice only going back that far.  Has there been a region that has spewed more hate and intolerance?  Ffs they wonder if women will be able to attend the World Cup.   You are talking about isolated incidents.  Middle East has been this way forever and will always be that way.  You cannot make irrational people think rational especially in masses. 

Is there any region in the world that didn't spew mass hatred and intolerance at some point in time? Seriously, read some history on European colonization or the enslavement of Africans or what we’ve done in this country or anywhere in the world save Antarctica. Those the penguins there can be pretty ****ed up.

[visionary]

Um...wait, this was planned on Monday?  

(Before the embassy situation?)

 

 

Well at least Trump has someone advising him to bomb Iranian oil refineries....

 

 

 

 

[Hersh]

4 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

No one is saying they are the source of all problems.  However we can’t exactly ignore how they harbor extremists and terrorists.  If they were simply battling each other and leaving everyone else out the world would go “ok y’all have fun over there killing each other.”  But they don’t.  The groups they allow in their countries commit attacks on other sections of the world.   Groups like Isis that have no tolerance for anyone.    People love to use the Bible to spew hate these days like the Middle East uses the Quran but the difference is one is ready to blow themselves up to get a point across.

people use the Bible to justify Trump. How has that worked out? 

[RichmondRedskin88]

1 minute ago, bearrock said:

 

Do you know how any people died as a result of World War II?  Was that started in the Middle East?

I was a history minor in wars focus so yeah I think I would know.  
 

Anyway you are talking about a regime that took over using propaganda.  Spewed religious intolerance.  But that was a isolated section of history with one country.  Same way I could talk about Stalin and his secret police.  I can keep going. 
 

We are talking about a region that has shown itself to be hostile to the outside world.  A region that will never stabilize because the roots are not power, greed, etc.  Its hate of another’s beliefs. You can’t change that. 

3 minutes ago, Hersh said:

people use the Bible to justify Trump. How has that worked out? 

I don’t see car bombings daily in the US. Let me know when that starts. 

[visionary]

Have a lot of respect for the guy but he’s being kind of unfair here. He’s blaming the American left for something that is pretty typical of most people. I get his point though.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by visionary

[Hersh]

9 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

I don’t see car bombings daily in the US. Let me know when that starts. 

Don’t bother looking deeper, ya know at hate crimes or his destabilizing the world or his provoking of Iran. We can just make it “if they have car bombs daily, let’s kill everyone.” That’s solid. 

[bearrock]

1 minute ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

I was a history minor in wars focus so yeah I think I would know.  
 

Anyway you are talking about a regime that took over using propaganda.  Spewed religious intolerance.  But that was a isolated section of history with one country.  Same way I could talk about Stalin and his secret police.  I can keep going. 
 

We are talking about a region that has shown itself to be hostile to the outside world.  A region that will never stabilize because the roots are not power, greed, etc.  Its hate of another’s beliefs. You can’t change that. 

 

You're taking the very worst of Islam and conflating that with the entire region.  Many would say the same of some aspect or practitioners of Christianity (and I say that as a Christian).

 

But first, I don't buy that violence in the middle east is solely or even predominantly due to religious reasons.  Religion is used to rile the masses, but it's nothing but a tool for those in power.  Religon, nationalism, these are just an easy tools to use for those seeking more power.

 

Second, even if religion was the cause of the problem in ME and greed/power was the cause of the problem in the rest of the world, greed/power has done far more damage in the last 100 years.  How many people would have thought Europe hopeless after two world wars?

 

[Hersh]

2 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

You're taking the very worst of Islam and conflating that with the entire region.  Many would say the same of some aspect or practitioners of Christianity (and I say that as a Christian).

 

But first, I don't buy that violence in the middle east is solely or even predominantly due to religious reasons.  Religion is used to rile the masses, but it's nothing but a tool for those in power.  Religon, nationalism, these are just an easy tools to use for those seeking more power.

 

Second, even if religion was the cause of the problem in ME and greed/power was the cause of the problem in the rest of the world, greed/power has done far more damage in the last 100 years.  How many people would have thought Europe hopeless after two world wars?

 

dude, stop. We should totally start by bombing the hospitals where there are new borns, then hit elementary schools. Let’s make them feel it cause America is awesome and everyone in that region deserves to die. Why? Cause they live there!!! If any of them flee, we drone the ****ers. 
 

Us and Europeans, we’ve never massacres THAT many nor enslaved people for THAT long compared to the Middle East so **** THEM!!!

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by visionary

[RichmondRedskin88]

16 minutes ago, Hersh said:

Don’t bother looking deeper, ya know at hate crimes or his destabilizing the world or his provoking of Iran. We can just make it “if they have car bombs daily, let’s kill everyone.” That’s solid. 

You are talking about two different groups of intolerant people.  One may have a idiot that shoots up a church or cafe. Another group would jump at the chance to blow up a city.  Let’s trade the trump racist/religion nut jobs for the extremists in the Middle East shall we?   Let’s see what building gets blown up first. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by RichmondRedskin88

[bearrock]

4 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

You are talking about two different groups of intolerant people.  One may have a idiot that shoots up a church or cafe. Another group would jump at the chance to blow up a city.  Let’s trade the trump racist/religion nut jobs for the extremists in the Middle East shall we?   Let’s see what building gets blown up first. 

 

 

Are we really going to argue about which group of nutjobs have the worse group of nutjobs? (Yes, I know McVeigh was anti-government, not some religious whackjob).  Crazy is crazy.  Terrorism is terrorism.  Your particular chosen justification has nothing to do with anything.