!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[TradeTheBeal!]

I just want a veteran All-Pro LT to go with my young stud RB and promising rookie QB.

 

I see only one path to that goal.

[carex]

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I just want a veteran All-Pro LT to go with my young stud RB and promising rookie QB.

 

I see only one path to that goal.

 

Donald Penn qualifies

[WilberMarshall]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sheehan blasting Bruce this morning in the context of if he had the Texans interested in a dealing with them and Bruce rebuffed them (because Schefter among others are right and Bruce is telling people he's not open for business relating to Trent) then it was a mistake.  And he hopes they can still find another suitor. I am in the same boat.  But I am not pessimistic they can find another suitor.  I think it's possible.  But my worry is the same as Sheehan's worry which is that Bruce is stubborn when he's pushed and it would fit his personality to have a stand off as opposed to give in.   Right now am thinking 50-50 traded or not traded.   

 

I gather some will rationalize any outcome here including a stand off as a win.  But I am with Sheehan that's crazy.  There is no upside to a stand off with Trent.  That's a lose lose.  I simply don't think Bruce-Dan have built a winning FO culture from the stand point of doing the right thing and operating with class where I can rationalize them building something on that front where this would supposedly add to their culture driven accomplishments -- even if they are justified on the Trent issue.

 

Just glad that Bruce is confirming what we all knew about him. Anyway, he held unto Enron and Blockbuster stocks as they kept sinking in value. He might be doing same with Trent. 

 

You've paid the dude over 100 million dollars in salary. You've stood with him in his multiple drug suspensions and injury-shortened seasons. He gave you an out where you can possibly land a couple of decent draft picks. You are busy trying to swing #$%@ while peeing all over the floor?

 

[TheShredder]

@Skinsinparadise All of which sucks because TW screwed us all if that's the case and Allen's ego grows.  I would tend to lean towards trading him for what is now a 1st plus market set by the current events. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

6 minutes ago, carex said:

 

Donald Penn qualifies

 

Fair enough.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

@Skinsinparadise All of which sucks because TW screwed us all if that's the case and Allen's ego grows.  I would tend to lean towards trading him for what is now a 1st plus market set by the current events. 

 

If its a stand off yeah IMO we lose and Trent loses. 

 

I wanted to trade Trent regardless of any of this.  This is looking to be likely a historic draft at LT.  It's a perfect time to get 10 years younger and cheaper at this position.  I don't see how they can easily trade him in the next off season with him being on his way to 32 with FA to compete with and a draft that's stacked at the position.   So to me it's this season or bust as for trade value. 

 

Having said that i am not throwing in the towel, I still think we got time but the longer this goes on the less confident I get on that front. 

 

 

 

 

[FrFan]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If its a stand off yeah IMO we lose and Trent loses.

Having said that i am not throwing in the towel, I still think we got time but the longer this goes on the less confident I get on that front.

How about Trent deciding to retire ?

[bakedtater1]

5 minutes ago, FrFan said:

How about Trent deciding to retire ?

This is what I think is gonna eventually happen.. 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, FrFan said:

How about Trent deciding to retire ?

 

Be interesting and I obviously hope not.  Bruce flat out said Trent is not retiring in his interview with NBC 4.

 

 

Just listened to JLC who has been saying for months Trent isn't coming back.  So just to give a different take from Hoffman.  His take is Trent isn't coming back and he's made that clear to the team.  He can see a standoff coming on but he doesn't see the point of it.

 

He's optimistic that they could get a good haul for Trent still.  He thinks the Texans though was a unique opportunity for a trade for any team because the FO is being run right now by a HC with a pure short term view of that franchise so he was willing to give up major draft capital.  But he goes (as I did over the weekend) that the Texans trade should help and not hurt Trent's trade value assuming there are dance partners.   He goes LT is a premium position and the trade value for it is high.

 

I'll circle back to the Josiana tweet from a few days back.  She's been on the money about a bunch of things.  She said interest still persists.  So I presume they have possibilities that extend beyond the Pats and the Texans -- assuming those two teams are out. 

 

 

 

[Idaho fan]

I don't see any option other than trading him myself.  

 

In my opinion, if he misses a few games and then gives in and comes back to play his heart won't be in it and he would NOT play through any injuries.  Something similar will probably happen next year again IF he doesn't just retire as others have said here.  If he doesn't retire and sits out part or all of the season next year he would be gone the following year with no compensation.

 

Again in my opinion the FO needs to make a trade IF they can get decent compensation which I think is obviously a 1st +.  Next year is going to be a solid draft at WR and LT both of which will be a need.  I disagree that it sets a precedent for other players to do the same.  They will do it (or not) regardless of the TW outcome.  The agents aren't going to advise their players based on the TW outcome.  This team has some top young talent especially on defense.  Its time add some high picks and continue to build so hopefully this team won't continue to wallow in mediocrity (or below).  Let TW go play somewhere else - he is solid when he plays but no-one will be surprised if he plays a half season or less due to injury.  The Skins have made their point and other teams know that he won't be given away for a ham sandwich.  If interest still persists after the Tunsil trade then I think great trade value is out there.  TRADE.

 

Make the damn trade.  Get younger.  Continue to build for the future.  Its the only way this ends well in my opinion.

[Skinsinparadise]

Some Dan stuff has spilled into this discussion.  for those interested the WP just did a full bore Dan article. It's interesting it interviews both Jerry Jones's son (who likes Dan) and Cooke's son who doesn't.  They hit one of the points i've been making about that the dude is considered very emotional.  It's part of my point about him not having the stomach to trade veterans for high picks.  I hope though Trent forces the issue anyway. 

 

Reading that article, it was one of the longer-deeper ones about Dan's reign.  At the very least it is an entertaining read.  It paints a similar picture as other articles-sources but with new sources/angles.  The good and the bad.  Mostly bad as to what type of owner he is.  Mostly good about his charitable side.   And i believe it (both the good and the bad) because its consistent with a lot of other things said pro and con about him.

 

https://beta.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/09/03/two-decades-later-nfl-peers-view-daniel-snyders-redskins-tenure-with-mix-worry-optimism/

Interviews with current NFL power players, former league executives and former Redskins employees, most of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity to offer a more frank assessment, depicted Snyder as a competitive businessman who remains driven to return the Redskins to the championship level of his childhood, but one no closer to understanding how to do so than in his younger, more imperious ownership seasons. They showed an owner who has receded from the NFL’s inner circle, whose insular personality has reduced his influence and willingness to fully engage on league matters.

 

...“If you’d have told me that the Redskins would have been an afterthought in the D.C. market, I would have told you you were crazy,” one NFL power broker said. “But you’re starting to see that. And it’s a concern.”

 

...“The league office doesn’t want to touch that guy with a 10-foot pole,” the NFL power broker said. “They know he’s just going to scream and yell and get mad. It’s like, what’s the point?”

Even NFL peers who want to defend him, who view him as a committed business partner and a doting father of his two daughters and son, have difficulty overcoming his temperament. More than one person familiar with him described — or agreed with the description of — Snyder as someone who behaves the way a little kid imagines a rich person acts.

 

...Even those who scorn Snyder do not doubt his business acumen, his intellect, his drive or his willingness to build a championship team.

“He just doesn't like a lot of the other owners, and he's a tough personality,” one high-ranking member of an NFL organization said. “I do know he cares about the Redskins and wants to win, and I think he's frustrated he doesn't know how to.”

 

...One person close to Lafemina called his ouster “a perfect example” of Snyder’s refusal to hear uncomfortable truths. Multiple people familiar with the dynamic said Allen undermined Lafemina, treating him as a threat rather than an ally. Lafemina, now the chief business operator of the 2028 Los Angeles Olympics organizing committee, did not return messages seeking comment.

 

...It is a relationship seemingly built on personal connection as much as professional. Multiple former Redskins employees said Allen and Snyder sometimes talk late into the night at Redskins Park over drinks, typically Coors Light for Allen and Crown Royal XR for Snyder.

[Peregrine]

11 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

What does this have anything to do with. You sent me links connecting the Skins and Texans to a Clowny trade. This has nothing to do with the Tunsil to the Texans for two 1st rd picks. There is nothing in the links saying the Skins were offered what the Dolphins were offered for Trent. 

Wow.  You are really dense arent you. 

 

A. You said there were no sources the Texans had tried to trade for Trent

B. I said there were, and named them

C. You asked for them because you didnt believe that was true

D. I provided exact links

E.  Because truth wasnt what you were ACTUALLY after, you now are blustering and blundering to insist this now has no bearing on whether the Texans tried to trade for Trent?

 

Nice. Hahahahaha.

[KDawg]

I just don't get the desire to hang onto the guy...

 

One could say, "Well, by letting him go you set precedence and others very well may follow suit"

 

I think that's a good retort. But my answer hopefully would rebuff that a little...

 

- who cares?

 

If someone wants out... Get rid of them. They'll leave eventually anyways. Trade them, get some compensation and use it as an opportunity to rebuild that position group and as a building block as a new foundation for a franchise.

 

Honestly, if we traded Williams and Guice, Kerrigan, Payne, Scherff and Allen all came to the GM's door and asked for trades I'd trade them all away and bathe in my compensation.

 

Draft picks are a ridiculous form of currency. They have so much value. If you use the pick you gain youth and x years of a cheap contract (even in the new CBA I'm sure there will be some sort of wage scale for rookies). If you trade the pic you garner other picks to help bring in the kind of guys you want.

 

Typically if you have players wanting to leave it shows that there is a problem somewhere...

 

1) With the player (headcase? Homesickness? [yes, players do get homesick], etc?)

2) With the player's fit within the franchise or the franchise's fit to the player (this happens in every job. Get some compensation and get the player to a more desirable location, works for both sides)

3) With the franchise (if people want to mass leave, it's time to look in the mirror. If leadership can't do that, the NFL needs to).

 

If the plan is to trade him if he doesn't report by the deadline because you *think* that's maximizing his value... fine. (I don't agree, but fine).

 

If the plan is to trade him next offseason - fine. Again... I don't agree, but there is a plan. A bad one, imo, but a plan.

 

If the plan is to stroke your ego by not letting him move on, you've just hit the nail on the head as to why players may want to leave. Poor management.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Ooooh, A WaPo slam piece just in time for week one!

 

Nobody could’ve seen that coming!

[carex]

The one thing that gives me hope that we won't miss out on a trade is that if he reaaly wants tp play he can threaten retirement if they don't do it. I don't think they'd let that happen

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Some Dan stuff has spilled into this discussion.  for those interested the WP just did a full bore Dan article. It's interesting it interviews both Jerry Jones's son (who likes Dan) and Cooke's son who doesn't.  They hit one of the points i've been making about that the dude is considered very emotional.  It's part of my point about him not having the stomach to trade veterans for high picks.  I hope though Trent forces the issue anyway. 

 

Reading that article, it was one of the longer-deeper ones about Dan's reign.  At the very least it is an entertaining read.  It paints a similar picture as other articles-sources but with new sources/angles.  The good and the bad.  Mostly bad as to what type of owner he is.  Mostly good about his charitable side.   And i believe it (both the good and the bad) because its consistent with a lot of other things said pro and con about him.

 

https://beta.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/09/03/two-decades-later-nfl-peers-view-daniel-snyders-redskins-tenure-with-mix-worry-optimism/

want to touch that guy with a 10-foot pole,” the NFL power broker said. “They know he’s just going to scream and yell and get mad. It’s like, what’s the point?”

 

SIP, it seems as though Snyder doesn't care or pay attention to what the media says.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, RWJ said:

SIP, it seems as though Snyder doesn't care or pay attention to what the media says.

 

Agree.  But according to some who know him (quoted in different articles, beat guys talking about it on the radio, etc) he does care about declining fan attendance and TV ratings.

 

Unless something unexpected happens, I suspect he will have to deal with that this season.  He has a good draw initially to fill the stands because those fans travel -- Dallas, Bears, NE -- but after that it wouldn't surprise me if the attendance decline (TV ratings too) from last year bleeds into this year.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

From what I remember of Deangelo Hall's comments about Trent, there was some slight optimism in the words he used. He may have modified his words in different interviews, though.

 

Anyway, I remember when he said he asked Trent if he was gonna be showing up at Redskins Park this week so that he could have the scoop (he seemed to say it was meant half-jokingly to Trent). And he said Trent's response was that there was "zero" chance he would be at Redskins Park "this week." I remember thinking, he didn't say "this season"...or "ever"...he said "this week". Does that mean there is a chance he shows up some other week, just not this week?

 

I thought the same thing again when Hall made some later comment about how Trent said the reason he wouldn't be back this week was that there were still issues that had not been addressed. Does that mean that Trent will be back if those issues are addressed to his satisfaction, whatever those issues are? Does it mean that both sides had been working on those issues, and still might be doing so? That there were other issues that had been addressed? I mean, if that's the case then it's a different situation than Trent, Bruce, and Dan are all being stubborn egomaniacs unwilling to budge and expecting the other to blink.

 

I had expected those two perspectives to be added to the mix by the media members following the story, but I don't recall it ever being discussed. The "zero chance" was focused on, many times without the context in which it was said. I haven't kept up with this thread too much so it could have been talked about here, though. 

 

Anyway, long-winded way of saying I'm strangely content with this whole situation lol...

[desertbeagle85]

1 hour ago, Peregrine said:

Wow.  You are really dense arent you. 

 

A. You said there were no sources the Texans had tried to trade for Trent

B. I said there were, and named them

C. You asked for them because you didnt believe that was true

D. I provided exact links

E.  Because truth wasnt what you were ACTUALLY after, you now are blustering and blundering to insist this now has no bearing on whether the Texans tried to trade for Trent?

 

Nice. Hahahahaha.

 

No the conversation I was having is if they offered the Redskins what they offered the Dolphins.  You provided links to story's of them trying to trade Clowny to the Skins for Trent. So again I say where are the links proving that the Skins were offered what the Dolphins were offered for Tunsil. Clowny links mean nothing and the guy is overrated. The Skins would've been dumb to trade Trent for Clowny. Maybe go back and read what was being talked about. I clearly said when there is proof that the Skins turned down what was offered for Tunsil.  Only thing I ever said about Clowny was that the Texans made a bad trade with Seattle. The problem is you jumped into a conversation that you weren't apart of and you didn't even know what was being discussed.

 

Nice. Hahahaha

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Anyway, long-winded way of saying I'm strangely content with this whole situation lol...

 

I presume this means you'd rather keep Trent than trade him?

[purbeast]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Bruce flat out said Trent is not retiring in his interview with NBC 4.

 

Bruh...

 

Please tell me you aren't taking anything Bruce Allen says with more than a grain of salt.

 

Remember when he also said he fully expected Trent to show up at training camp?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

18 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

No the conversation I was having is if they offered the Redskins what they offered the Dolphins.  You provided links to story's of them trying to trade Clowny to the Skins for Trent. So again I say where are the links proving that the Skins were offered what the Dolphins were offered for Tunsil. Clowny links mean nothing and the guy is overrated. The Skins would've been dumb to trade Trent for Clowny. Maybe go back and read what was being talked about. I clearly said when there is proof that the Skins turned down what was offered for Tunsil.  Only thing I ever said about Clowny was that the Texans made a bad trade with Seattle. The problem is you jumped into a conversation that you weren't apart of and you didn't even know what was being discussed.

 

Nice. Hahahaha

 

 

 

 

desertbeagle85: "When there is a creditable source saying the Skins turned down what was offered to the Dolphins. I'll be just as mad as everyone else, but I have yet to see that yet."

 

Peregrine: "You said there were no sources the Texans had tried to trade for Trent "

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I presume this means you'd rather keep Trent than trade him?

 

Actually, it means I'm equally ok no matter what they do lol...

 

Trade him? Cool. I won't be thinking "they could have brought him back."

 

Trent returns? Cool. I won't be thinking "Big mistake, we should have traded him and planned for the future."

 

Let him sit all year? Cool. I won't be thinking it's nothing but a staring contest born out of spite, ego, and greed.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Actually, it means I'm equally ok no matter what they do lol...

 

Trade him? Cool. I won't be thinking "they could have brought him back."

 

Trent returns? Cool. I won't be thinking "Big mistake, we should have traded him and planned for the future."

 

Let him sit all year? Cool. I won't be thinking it's nothing but a staring contest born out of spite, ego, and greed.

 

So a win no matter what the outcome.    Most have a specific preference -- trade him, keep him, stand off.  If I am Bruce I am hoping Dan is thinking that way, no matter what the outcome -- we win.   For me it's trade him and its not even close. But to each their own. 😀

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So a win no matter what the outcome.    Most have a specific preference -- trade him, keep him, stand off.  If I am Bruce I am hoping Dan is thinking that way, no matter what the outcome -- we win.   For me it's trade him and its not even close. But to each their own. 😀

 

Nah, I don't think any of those scenarios are necessarily "wins". I just don't think any of them are even close to being major losses, either. If Trent comes back, the reality still exists that arguably our best player seriously considered retiring over playing for the Skins again. If we trade Williams, the haul better be damn good--I mean, DAMN good--or else the whole thing would have fizzled out to 'meh' level conclusion. If he sits out all season, then the reality that neither side did (or would do) enough to solve the issues doesn't give me warm and fuzzy feelings.

 

But going back to what Hall said and my (admittingly faulty) memory of his words, it doesn't sound like Trent genuinely would rather retire than play for the Skins, it does sound as if both sides have indeed been trying to get the issues addressed even if they haven't yet, and nobody knows if the Texans' offer to the Dolphins was based on how good they felt Tunsil is (highly doubt it, though), or on how desperate they may have felt the situation had become because Tunsil was apparently the only option available to them, or so they felt.

[Est.1974]

Trade him. Already burnt his bridges.