!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[hatchetwound]

8 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

To me it only makes sense if you get a pick with the TW trade and then trade Clowney for more picks. 

Interesting thought, but how could that work in a practical sense?  It's not like we can sign him to a cap friendly deal where we would eat the cap in the event he is traded  (think the brock osweiler trade in reverse, where we eat the cap and receive a pick for it).  

 

MAYBE we do a 3 person trade where we trade Trent to Houston for picks, Team X sends Houston player Y (like a 2nd string RB), and Team X sends us picks

[Hazel-Ra]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I hope the gamble in keeping Williams pays off.

 

I just have a feeling this is going to go down as another major blunder for this regime and its going to set the tone for 2019.

Can you imagine the outrage here when fast forward to Dec and it turns out A: The Patriots 1st round offer was legit and,

 

B: Tom Brady suddenly has a drop off this year and they go 9-7

[Jericho]

The whole situation remains weird. With most holdouts, you at least definitely know why the player is holding out. You hear something from the player, or at least the player's agent. But with Williams you get zilch. You get some stories from some reporters. And although some of those stories might have been leaked from Williams' camp, the stories themselves are inconsistent. Some maintain he will never play in Washington again. Period. Others say the same thing, but nudge nudge wink wink pay him a lot of money and it'll all be fine. Everything else just seems like posturing by either side.

 

In the end, Williams doesn't have a ton of leverage. He's 31 and has two years left on his deal. He could just retire, but if he legitly no longer wanted to play, he's just have done that already. Williams wants to play through some combination of love of the game and money. But if he doesn't play, he starts losing game checks. And those will add up quick. Even if Williams comes back for the minimum six games needed to fulfill his contract, is he willing to forfeit 10 games worthy of checks? And for what purpose? Just to repeat the process next year as well? In the end, he's basically praying the team trades him it seems. Or he secretly just wants a big payday. I don't know. but he's at the mercy of the Redskins and Bruce Allen. Not sure if the team is considering trades (despite the public stance saying they aren't) or just aren't happy with the offers. But I suspect something will budge in the near future.

[hatchetwound]

18 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

MAYBE we do a 3 person trade where we trade Trent to Houston for picks, Team X sends Houston player Y (like a 2nd string RB), and Team X sends us picks

I got it!!!!!!!

 

We send: TW and Chris Thompson to Houston

Houston sends us: a pick

Houston sends Team X Clowney

Team X sends us draft picks

 

 

Houston gets the OLine help it needs plus a RB to help with the Lamar Miller situation

Team X gets Clowney

Houston and Team X don't indivually give up a ton in draft picks but combined give us a nice haul.

We get rid of a malcontent who is eating cap space and a player who cant stay healthy.... who is eating cap space

 

 

Its literally a win for everyone.  GET IT DONE BRUCE

[TheBlueIndian]

If I am Brucey I tell Trent my bottom line for a trade and tell him if he wants out find a dance partner and off you go. If not, forfeit your paydays until you do or show up and play.

 

Trent has zero leverage in this situation and going forward it just gets worse for both parties.

 

If he is so set financially then why the heck would a big payday make a difference to him. Play out your contract and let the chips fall where they may.

 

I think the whole story is some BS cover for something else we are likely never going to find out about, but in the end I suspect he will suit up when the rookie becomes the starter.

[Malapropismic Depository]

16 minutes ago, hawgboy said:

Can you imagine the outrage here when fast forward to Dec and it turns out A: The Patriots 1st round offer was legit and,

 

B: Tom Brady suddenly has a drop off this year and they go 9-7

 

Don't worry.

Dwayne Has Skins in his back pocket.

[desertbeagle85]

24 minutes ago, amm0409 said:

 

 

Listen Bruce Allen has it all figured out. 🙄

[RandyHolt]

Breaking News: There will be NO breaking news, breaking, in the next 5 minutes.

 

Perine + Trent + Doctson --- to where lord only knows. Lets just say Houston. 

 

Too bad blockbusters rarely never happen in football.

 

 

[goskins10]

35 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

This had me wondering.... do you remember that poll about the least trustworthy and least prepared GMs and we made both lists?

 

Do you think its Bruce's particular style\approach to get the best deal (or at least, protect us from trade rape) that's given him that reputation???

 

I want to preface my response with there were some problems with that "poll". Several not well defined questions. Left too much open to interpretation. Having said that, were there is smoke there is fire. So while maybe he is not the absolute worst I have to believe that he measures very close to the bottom. 

 

to answer your question, i do agree that his insistence on winning the deal has turned off some agents to the point they play more hard ball with Bruce and i honestly believe there are some FAs that have been steered away by their agents. 

 

Not directed at you but to others sure to chime in - Before i get the deluge of "name one person!", just save it. It is my impression but an impression with at least some backing based on how much a POS i know him to be. He had the same jerk reputation in Oakland and then again in Tampa. So if you honestly believe that not a single free agent has been put off by Bruce's reputation that's your right but IMO it's a highly flawed belief. Bruce is a slimy ass POS. This we know as fact based on how he has handled many situations. I guess it's possible that he is a really nice and honest guy with FAs and they all want to come here but I find that very hard to believe. 

 

In fairness, I also believe FAs have other destinations they are not interested in. So is it all Bruce that would keep a FA from coming here? Probably not. But it's certainly a consideration. If it were me and all things were equal and one GM is known to be a straight shooter and they other to be a POS, I know what my choice would be. 

[hatchetwound]

Great post.

 

I think we are in agreement

 

1) He's not great.  He is somewhere right below the middle of the pack

2) His approach has not helped his image, makes him look worse than what he is.

 

Say what you will, but at least we are not blowing draft picks on players who drop more rap albums than catch touchdowns for us

on his watch

[Malapropismic Depository]

4 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Breaking News: There will be NO breaking news

 

 

Breaking News : All "news" is hypothesizing rumination.

[Skin'emAlive]

28 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

This had me wondering.... do you remember that poll about the least trustworthy and least prepared GMs and we made both lists?

 

Do you think its Bruce's particular style\approach to get the best deal (or at least, protect us from trade rape) that's given him that reputation???

 

A good GM doesnt have to be trustworthy. Would you say that Danny Ainge is a good GM? Is he trustworthy? How about Bill? You think Rich Seamore, and others find him trustworthy? A good GM knows his cards and when to show his hand. The past 3 years has shown that Bruce has played his cards right. We were 6-2 with a terrible season from Alex Smith, and one of those losses were the Drew Brees career game which included a ref handing him a certificate on national tv during the game. Then our OL went down, and that was it. We are extremely thin at OL with a phenomenal 2020 OL class on the horizon. Hold for the flop.

 

Trent can posture all he likes. In the end he will be 33, injury prone, and coming off a 2 year holdout without ever addressing anyone. And we will still get a 3rd rd comp out of that while he will have thrown his career away. He's been incredibly selfish about all this, and his advice has been poor. Bruce should sit on this.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Clowney to Washington only makes sense if you are moving on from Kerrigan. Ive never been sold on Ryan as i think he is a one-move pass rusher... but the man gets it done year after year, is a leader on the team, and has never had any other help. You cant make that trade. Additionally, Clowney has already specifically targeted a few franchises that he would be open to resigning with. He is not a good trade for us.

 

Why would we have to move on from Kerrigan?  We lost Foster to injury.  Lot's of ways they can line up guys in their nickel package and utilize both Clowny and Kerrigan, especially in a 4-2-5.

 

Edge - Clowny

1 tech DT - Payne/Settle

3 tech DT - Allen/Loannidas

Edge - Kerrigan

 

ILB - Hamilton/Sweat

ILB - Bostic/Anderson (or whatever combinations of LBs)

 

Now, the fear of him not resigning with us is there, so it could turn out to be a one season rental.  But if TW is refusing to play and we could get Clowny and maybe a 2nd round pick, I'd entertain the offer.  Not sure if the Texans would offer that pick in addition and am guessing they would want a straight up trade.  Which if that was the case, too much risk.  

[hatchetwound]

1 minute ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

A good GM doesnt have to be trustworthy. Would you say that Danny Ainge is a good GM? Is he trustworthy? How about Bill? You think Rich Seamore, and others find him trustworthy? A good GM knows his cards and when to show his hand. The past 3 years has shown that Bruce has played his cards right. We were 6-2 with a terrible season from Alex Smith, and one of those losses were the Drew Brees career game which included a ref handing him a certificate on national tv during the game. Then our OL went down, and that was it. We are extremely thin at OL with a phenomenal 2020 OL class on the horizon. Hold for the flop.

 

Trent can posture all he likes. In the end he will be 33, injury prone, and coming off a 2 year holdout without ever addressing anyone. And we will still get a 3rd rd comp out of that while he will have thrown his career away. He's been incredibly selfish about all this, and his advice has been poor. Bruce should sit on this.

Agree completely.

 

Bruce isn't "bad".  For the reasons you mentioned plus like I said, he isn't blowing assets like Vinny.  He is an upgrade over the previous regimen.

 

But until he builds a winner, we can't slap the label that he is good either.  (The closest he has been to building a winner was 2012.  But RG3's knee plus the Mara's screwing us out of spite ended that quickly)

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, hatchetwound said:

Agree completely.

 

Bruce isn't "bad".  For the reasons you mentioned plus like I said, he isn't blowing assets like Vinny.  He is an upgrade over the previous regimen.

 

But until he builds a winner, we can't slap the label that he is good either.  (The closest he has been to building a winner was 2012.  But RG3's knee plus the Mara's screwing us out of spite ended that quickly)

Some would say there is nothing worse in this era of football than to be ho-hum middle of the pack.  Not Bruce of course, it’s working for him.  But for fans, it’s terrible.  Being the worst = high draft picks and higher potential for regime change.  In the middle gets you “we’re close” every offseason and buys time.

[hatchetwound]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Some would say there is nothing worse in this era of football than to be ho-hum middle of the pack.  Not Bruce of course, it’s working for him.  But for fans, it’s terrible.  Being the worst = high draft picks and higher potential for regime change.  In the middle gets you “we’re close” every offseason and buys time.

I can see that.  Just missing out is frustrating.

 

But.....

 

I would argue that its very important to build a team organically with a lot of home grown talent.  It might not pop right away.  But then you get that QB and all of a sudden some of those close losses become wins.  Those 7-9 seasons become 10-6 or, dare I say, 11-5 seasons.  

 

Look at green bay.  Rodgers alone can carry his team to a division title.  

 

So if Haskens work out, all of a sudden we have a team with a strong D, a strong running game, a line with only a few holes.... get us a WR or two (FA and or Draft) and all of a sudden we are in the discussion.

[desertbeagle85]

22 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Why would we have to move on from Kerrigan?  We lost Foster to injury.  Lot's of ways they can line up guys in their nickel package and utilize both Clowny and Kerrigan, especially in a 4-2-5.

 

Edge - Clowny

1 tech DT - Payne/Settle

3 tech DT - Allen/Loannidas

Edge - Kerrigan

 

ILB - Hamilton/Sweat

ILB - Bostic/Anderson (or whatever combinations of LBs)

 

Now, the fear of him not resigning with us is there, so it could turn out to be a one season rental.  But if TW is refusing to play and we could get Clowny and maybe a 2nd round pick, I'd entertain the offer.  Not sure if the Texans would offer that pick in addition and am guessing they would want a straight up trade.  Which if that was the case, too much risk.  

 

Clowny is over rated and isn't worth trading for. He will cost money the Skins don't have to resign. I don't want the guy and hope the Skins aren't stupid enough to trade for him. No way we get Clowny and a 2nd for Trent.

[TheBlueIndian]

17 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

Great post.

 

I think we are in agreement

 

1) He's not great.  He is somewhere right below the middle of the pack

2) His approach has not helped his image, makes him look worse than what he is.

 

Say what you will, but at least we are not blowing draft picks on players who drop more rap albums than catch touchdowns for us

on his watch

please don't forget 

3) we are winning off the field

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

Now, the fear of him not resigning with us is there, so it could turn out to be a one season rental.  But if TW is refusing to play and we could get Clowny and maybe a 2nd round pick, I'd entertain the offer.  Not sure if the Texans would offer that pick in addition and am guessing they would want a straight up trade.  Which if that was the case, too much risk.   

 

I think there might be a salary cap issue with the scenario you lay out because I don't think Trent's salary can offset Clowney's after he signs his franchise tag.  That's also a potential issue too.  Clowney can scuttle trades to places he doesn't want to go by doing what LeVeon Bell did and not signing his franchise tag offer, because he can't be traded until he signs it.

[Skinsinparadise]

That D. Hall thing that was posted here, they are talking about it on the radio.  The gist of it is D. Hall said he talked to Trent and Trent told him there is zero chance he will be at Redskins Park next week leading to the Eagles game.

 

Hoffman on the air said as far as he knows, the Redskins still don't want to trade him but would be willing perhaps if they are blown away by an offer.

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think there might be a salary cap issue with the scenario you lay out because I don't think Trent's salary can offset Clowney's after he signs his franchise tag.  That's also a potential issue too.  Clowney can scuttle trades to places he doesn't want to go by doing what LeVeon Bell did and not signing his franchise tag offer, because he can't be traded until he signs it.

 

Supposedly Clowney prefers to go to a contender, and cited the Eagles and Seattle.  Don't know if that's true but that's all over the Internet. 

[Skin'emAlive]

15 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Why would we have to move on from Kerrigan? 

 

Clowney is a bull-rushing type of Edge. He plays a similar role that Kerrigan plays. Sweat is more of a speedy edge. (though after seeing how much mass he's put on in one offseason, the sky is the limit here). We dont need Clowney. We need lineman and receivers.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

if Haskens work out, all of a sudden we have a team with a strong D, a strong running game, a line with only a few holes.... get us a WR or two (FA and or Draft) and all of a sudden we are in the discussion.

That sounds great when you put it like that, but one of the hardest parts of being a good GM in the NFL, is aligning all the pieces that work together at the same time.  It's more than just drafting good players, it's about foresight and effectively managing resources.  Bruce has never shown the ability to do that in his life.

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

A good GM doesnt have to be trustworthy. Would you say that Danny Ainge is a good GM? Is he trustworthy? How about Bill? You think Rich Seamore, and others find him trustworthy? A good GM knows his cards and when to show his hand. The past 3 years has shown that Bruce has played his cards right. We were 6-2 with a terrible season from Alex Smith, and one of those losses were the Drew Brees career game which included a ref handing him a certificate on national tv during the game. Then our OL went down, and that was it. We are extremely thin at OL with a phenomenal 2020 OL class on the horizon. Hold for the flop.

 

Trent can posture all he likes. In the end he will be 33, injury prone, and coming off a 2 year holdout without ever addressing anyone. And we will still get a 3rd rd comp out of that while he will have thrown his career away. He's been incredibly selfish about all this, and his advice has been poor. Bruce should sit on this.

 

Ultimately, I think you're right.  The team has the leverage in this situation.  But it still sucks really bad for us because we've got some coaching instability this season.  We're in a position where Jay really needs to win to keep his job, the defense is built, and we've got an exciting young QB prospect.  And that is getting dragged down by our two biggest contracts not playing.  We've basically got a massive handicap where 18% of our cap is just dead, and it will be 19% next year.  That is really hard to overcome.

 

I think we need to move on and get some draft pick compensation for him.

[hatchetwound]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Supposedly Clowney prefers to go to a contender, and cited the Eagles and Seattle.  Don't know if that's true but that's all over the Internet. 

 

Hypothetical question:  Lets say we did a 3 way trade like I laid out below.  And pretend the draft picks we receive are the same no matter which of those two teams involved. 

Would you rather have Team X be Seattle or Eagles.

 

On one hand, we get our picks and now Clowny in the division, so Seattle would be my kneejerk reaction.

But to play devils advocate....

Maybe we would WANT philly to trade for him.  First, we take THEIR picks, so our rival has less draft assests in a stacked class.  Secondly.... He might end up being a 1 year rental.  They can't sign him to an extension right away.  Who's not to say he gets there and then hates it.  Hates being part of a rotation.  Hates their fans.  Hates that dump of the city.  He could turn around and say "Nope, I'm going somewhere else" and Philly is left with nothing.

 

 

 

TLDR:  You can talk me into whatever, as long as we get picks lol 

[Skin'emAlive]

17 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

But until he builds a winner, we can't slap the label that he is good either.  (The closest he has been to building a winner was 2012.  But RG3's knee plus the Mara's screwing us out of spite ended that quickly)

 

People forget how much Mara ****ed us. We had no ability to fill out the OL, and Griff lasted 3 quarters of a season before his career ended. The hardest part of being a GM is finding the qb. The next hardest is not putting him out there until you have the pieces around him that can keep him up. Its why most terrible franchises never find success, and the best franchises seem to be able to seemlessly transition to the next guy. You gotta take a measured approach to this.