!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[bedlamVR]

I think we have to trade him right now and rip the band aid off and give his money to Brandon and use a high pick on a LT in 2020 which is something we would have to do soon anyway 

[Bang]

1 hour ago, Nerm said:

 

In my opinion, the reports from the front office telling the media that they expect fines will force Trent to come back was a very bad approach.  It seems like, even if you believe that it will work, it is a bad idea to make that public.  I feel like that public posturing will just make a player dig in deeper.

Yeah, but that's really nothing new. every holdout that goes this long you hear about the fines they will accrue. It's pretty much standard negotiation tactic #1 when dealing with holdouts.

 

~Bang

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

We may actually agree on something! 😎

 

This draft looks crazy stacked at LT and WR.   This team is due for some good luck.  Just by chance this is the perfect time for this Trent thing.    I get all that think that this Trent holdout is bad luck.  And people digging in pro or anti FO but IMO its irrelevant in this situation.   And it is bad luck if we take a one year perspective.  But as for the big picture if we are sitting with 2 first round picks in this coming draft -- I'd bet money that many people will be really jazzed headed into the off season. 

[HardcoreZorn]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This draft looks crazy stacked at LT and WR.   This team is due for some good luck.  Just by chance this is the perfect time for this Trent thing.    I get all that think that this Trent holdout is bad luck.  And people digging in pro or anti FO but IMO its irrelevant in this situation.   And it is bad luck if we take a one year perspective.  But as for the big picture if we are sitting with 2 first round picks in this coming draft -- I'd bet money that many people will be really jazzed headed into the off season. 

 

Yep and I totally agree that this isn’t a move we would make on our own terms. Even though I’m pro FO, I think one thing they continually drop the ball on is their ability to unload their assets and grab a valuable return. Getting an additional first in as you said what appears to be a loaded draft at positions of need for us makes too much sense. We would come out with WR/OT and really be set up with young potential cornerstones at the most important positions on the field (QB, OL, DL).

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

Yep and I totally agree that this isn’t a move we would make on our own terms. Even though I’m pro FO, I think one thing they continually drop the ball on is their ability to unload their assets and grab a valuable return. Getting an additional first in as you said what appears to be a loaded draft at positions of need for us makes too much sense. We would come out with WR/OT and really be set up with young potential cornerstones at the most important positions on the field (QB, OL, DL).

 

 

People can twist this pro FO or anti FO if they choose.  IMO on that front there isn't enough information to land on a position, yet.    But I really don't care on this front.  Whatever it takes to get a high pick in the 2020 draft.

 

As you know, on the aggregate I am not a big believer in this FO as to building a winner.  But I do believe in one faction of it which is college scouting.  I trust Kyle to pull a gem at WR and LT with two first round picks in a draft that is looking mega loaded at both positions.  Also, among the Dan critics, I am of the faction (a small faction since plenty disagree with me on this) that a franchise QB can potentially override his issues.  Conversely, i don't think this team becomes a winner without a franchise QB.   

 

So the way I look at it is we already put the money on the craps table with a potential franchise QB.  We are playing a hand.  So just play the full hand aggressively.  I hate the play it in the middle approach to tread water or whatever.  Go young -- take a step back to take two steps forward.    If Haskins is the goods it will likely be give or take in his year 3 when he reaches the peak of his powers.    At that point, if you have a young LT and a #1 receiver culled from this 2020 draft -- then they might be cooking with something seriously good.  And their cap with a young QB, #1 receiver, good LT all at rookie salaries would make it easier to go for the kill in FA or at least be able to keep their D line intact with them poised to hit FA. 

 

Even if we ran with the idea that Trent at 33-34 would still be at the peak of his powers.  At that juncture we'd have to resign him in FA since his contract runs out in 2 years.  So what would that be like 16 million for a mid thirties LT?  I just don't see how Trent is a part of the rebuild.  We are going to chose resigning Trent lets say over Payne or Allen?  And if you can obtain real draft capital for Trent now -- you can't beat that IMO for a team that's still rebuilding. 

 

So that's why I got zero angst about any of this.  My only concern is they have some sort of stand off with a hold out with no trade.  

 

 

[Conn]

It worries me that the "feel good" outcome of this is that we get a 2020 1st rounder. I just have a hard time believing it happens. 

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

It worries me that the "feel good" outcome of this is that we get a 2020 1st rounder. I just have a hard time believing it happens. 

 

Multiple national reporters, some of whom checked around with personnel people they know -- landed on a first rounder and perhaps change.  The worse case one said was a 2nd and a 4th.  

 

Maybe they end up wrong.  But if Duke Johnson generates a third rounder, you'd think an elite LT can generate more.  And if there are really multiple suitors for Trent as some purport -- I think they have a decent shot at it.  The wildcard to me is how is Trent's health right now?  Can he pass a physical? 

[actorguy1]

Originally hoping Trent was staying away until he was healthy enough to participate in camp. Now perhaps FO is waiting for him to be healthy enough to trade him.

[carex]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Multiple national reporters, some of whom checked around with personnel people they know -- landed on a first rounder and perhaps change.  The worse case one said was a 2nd and a 4th.  

 

Maybe they end up wrong.  But if Duke Johnson generates a third rounder, you'd think an elite LT can generate more.  And if there are really multiple suitors for Trent as some purport -- I think they have a decent shot at it.  The wildcard to me is how is Trent's health right now?  Can he pass a physical? 

 

the big issue may be them offering a first and them offering a package they say is equivalent to a first

 

As for his health, something was removed from his head.  Besides concussion is a lot of stuff in a physical head related?

[Koala]

On 8/8/2019 at 10:31 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My only issue from Trent's side of things is if he wants to leverage a trade, I'd chill with the I am not playing for them narrative.  Granted its not coming from him directly or his agent.  But if that's what he truly is telling people then it makes it harder to leverage trade value.  If the Redskins are seriously considering trading him, and he really wants out, his best shot to get out is for the Redskins to get good value for him. 

 

 

yeah thats why im 90 percent sure its a negotiating ploy more than anything.

 

Id try to negotiate a little with him using a backloaded contract extension so as to free up money to sing Brandon.  If he bites, good. 

 

But dont trade him for less than a late first round pick or early 2nd.  Call his bluff, if he wants to sit out the year let him.  He will discover that sitting out a year will murder his market value

[Nerm]

16 minutes ago, Koala said:

yeah thats why im 90 percent sure its a negotiating ploy more than anything.

 

If so, it will be the first time I have seen a player use the strategy of... " I don't trust my employers or the training staff.  I will never play for that team again" negotiating ploy before.

[dyst]

For the love of GOD! We lost RG3 and Kirk for nothing. Get something for Trent. It should be a 1st.

[sportjunkie07]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So that's why I got zero angst about any of this.  My only concern is they have some sort of stand off with a hold out with no trade.  

This part is particularly concerning and seeing as how multiple teams are interested and we haven't made a trade yet, it is pretty alarming. 

 

I do agree with you about playing our hand agressively. 

 

The 5th year on a rookie contract is unique to first rounders and we are setup to have quite a few of them.. especially if we can land a 1st for trent. Imagine utilizing these 5th year options for allen, payne, haskins, sweat, a 2020 LT, and a 2020 WR. It could pay dividends in regard to cap efficiency and would be an advantage few if any teams have been able to pull off. 

 

The Alex Smith trade is an albatross hanging over the team. I think we need to be creative in dealing with it. Whether trading him to a rebuilding team next year for a 2nd rounder (see osweiler to Cleveland) or absorbing the guaranteed money next year (which we should've done this year). I don't know a ton about contracts so I'll just leave it there. 

 

Bottom line, I think as early as 2021 we have a couple year window where we could suprise some people, if we play our cards right. But the team needs to go in with a unified vision starting with upper management..which they have seemed incapable of doing. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, carex said:

 

the big issue may be them offering a first and them offering a package they say is equivalent to a first

 

As for his health, something was removed from his head.  Besides concussion is a lot of stuff in a physical head related?

 

If I recall it was Finlay who said he isn't sure if he'd be cleared to play -- that was weeks back.  You got me as to why but there is a narrative floating out that it's a possibility.

 

10 hours ago, Koala said:

 

But dont trade him for less than a late first round pick or early 2nd.  Call his bluff, if he wants to sit out the year let him.  He will discover that sitting out a year will murder his market value

 

From my stand point, I'd be floored if its less than that.   Him murdering his market value also murders our trade value.  My only strong stance on this is I can care less about the FO making a point to Trent.  For me it's about building a winning team as opposed to winning a spitting match.  

 

7 hours ago, sportjunkie07 said:

This part is particularly concerning and seeing as how multiple teams are interested and we haven't made a trade yet, it is pretty alarming. 

 

 

Some suggest (especially Keim) that they'd push it until they end of August and gamble that the time lapsed coupled with maybe new injuries occurring would hike the trade value.  The beat guy that seems to be holding out that they figure this out is Craig Hoffman and he thinks the standoff might extend into the season.

 

7 hours ago, sportjunkie07 said:

 

The 5th year on a rookie contract is unique to first rounders and we are setup to have quite a few of them.. especially if we can land a 1st for trent. Imagine utilizing these 5th year options for allen, payne, haskins, sweat, a 2020 LT, and a 2020 WR. It could pay dividends in regard to cap efficiency and would be an advantage few if any teams have been able to pull off. 

 

Exactly.  And the 2020 draft was hyped even last year before the 2019 one.  It's looking special for WR and O line.

 

 

[CommDownMan]

15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This draft looks crazy stacked at LT and WR.   This team is due for some good luck.  Just by chance this is the perfect time for this Trent thing.    I get all that think that this Trent holdout is bad luck.  And people digging in pro or anti FO but IMO its irrelevant in this situation.   And it is bad luck if we take a one year perspective.  But as for the big picture if we are sitting with 2 first round picks in this coming draft -- I'd bet money that many people will be really jazzed headed into the off season. 

 

To me it appears to be a matter of how you feel about this team.  If they are ready for a playoff push this hurts.  If they aren't this puts us in position to trade a good but aging player and have more potential pieces for the future. 

 

I do think we would be lucky to be contenders in the 2 years of his contract and I don't think his injury history warrants a new even bigger deal (not that he appears to want it).  This gives him a chance to be on a contender and forces us to do something that was probably the right plan we would never willingly take. 

 

With the fire BA page and several about QB develpoment, WR, Oline status (with or without TW) I think I know which way many here would lean.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, jsharrin55 said:

 

To me it appears to be a matter of how you feel about this team.  If they are ready for a playoff push this hurts.  If they aren't this puts us in position to trade a good but aging player and have more potential pieces for the future. 

 

I do think we would be lucky to be contenders in the 2 years of his contract and I don't think his injury history warrants a new even bigger deal (not that he appears to want it).  This gives him a chance to be on a contender and forces us to do something that was probably the right plan we would never willingly take. 

 

With the fire BA page and several about QB develpoment, WR, Oline status (with or without TW) I think I know which way many here would lean.

 

I like Jay more than most.  I am not a Bruce guy to say the least.  But I don't care if a losing season is collateral damage to anybody (aside from Kyle Smith) in some quest to win now at all expense -- if the idea of win now translates to another mediocre season.  If your coach is that lame of a duck and or ditto the Team President then just fire them.  You don't let their status effect a team trying to build over the long term.  That's on Dan for continually not being a forward thinking owner IMO.    As a chess player in my view, he's just about always in the moment or reacting and not proactive and looking ahead about his moves like how the best chess players operate.    

 

One of the things some beat guys said especially JP Finlay during the Kirk contract impasse was there was no thought to trade Kirk because even though many recognized he wasn't coming back, they still were all about the NEXT season.  And Finlay said something to the effect that even two seasons down the line is like 20 years down the line as for the mindset of plenty in that building.  If so that's on Dan.  I don't blame Jay or anyone else for having a win now or else mindset if that's what's been dictated to them.

 

Dan IMO typically approaches every season like he's close even though he's not.  And that IMO is one of the numerous reasons he hasn't built a winner.  The other team that seemed to approach NFL life that way was the Browns for years.  And they had an epiphany in recent years that instead of patching things up -- why not strip the team to make it even more barren and load up on picks.  Like the Redskins they've struck out at QB royally for years.  Now they got the QB position right, are loaded with young talent and have the cap space.  And are a better team IMO than the Redskins.  The Redskins were a better team in recent years than the Browns but for what purpose?  we can talk about our 7-9 season and 8-7-1 etc while the Browns were awful.  But so what?  The Browns at last in theory are an exciting team and on the rise in a big way.    Jimmy Johnson did it the same way in Dallas.

 

Dan has improved in the sense that they don't trade draft picks like they once did.  But otherwise, I haven't seen an all in take a step back to take two steps forward approach.  I don't think Dan can emotionally take it.  So yeah for me this Trent drill might box him in to do what by reflex he doesn't like to do.     And i get its a tough year to do this with fans checking out, etc. I was watching the Giants preseason game the other night and to my naked eye those stands were much fuller than at the Redskins game.  This might be one of those darkest before the dawn type seasons whether Dan likes it or not.  And I think that this might happen with or without Trent.   And ironically I'd think he'd benefit more even from a PR stand point from having an extra first rounder if they pull it off.  If they are rebooting the coaching staff/front office whatever -- its a lot more exciting with a loaded draft and them loaded with picks versus a run of the mill version of this. 

[carex]

as poorly as the Redskins have played in the past and as little faith as fans have in Snyder to pick someone who can build a winner the idea that we should tank is makes no sense.  It's internally contradictive, because it should result in a team that's perpetually terrible rather than a team that's always hanging right around average despite having terrible amounts of injuries.

 

But other teams have done it?  Other teams didn't have Dan Snyder as an owner and for you all that should make that idea not work

[FrFan]

15 minutes ago, carex said:

But other teams have done it?  Other teams didn't have Dan Snyder as an owner and for you all that should make that idea not work

Colts did, we could, we didn't and got RG3 instead 😉 Sometimes it's better to take one step backward to be able to jump forward. Nevertheless we're hopeless with Dan at the helm.

[Skinsinparadise]

Trading Trent isn't tanking.  I don't think for example it would make an 8-8 team, 3-13.  They've had plenty of bad seasons WITH Trent Williams.  This is a team with a good young nucleus.  QB is a question mark but hopefully Haskins is this goods.  It needs more young players.  This isn't making a really good team bad.  This IMO is helping turn a mediocre team (with some good pieces) take a bigger step forward. 

 

Dan has a 20 year sample size.  We have an idea of what he likes to do.  We have an idea of how his way works or doesn't.  the cool thing about the NFL is they even quantify results where you can do an apples to apples comparison.  Dan's tenure has been peppered with giving up high picks for veterans.  And just about every one of those deals hasn't worked out.    Trading Trent for a high pick would be a new fangled thing for Dan.  And call me crazy but it wouldn't hurt Dan to shake up his "success" model some. 😀

[Skin'emAlive]

I see that you all are finally starting to come around...

 

Its obvious that we arent a contender. Haskins isnt ready yet. Our line is in shambles. And we are paying tens of millions to a guy who more than likely wont play again. Luckily for us, we are actually in the drivers seat for the final chapter of a franchise defining rebuild. Its unfortunate that this means another year older for guys like Kerrigan, but thats just how it is. The goal of this season should be:

 

1. Get Sweat, Collins, Moreland up to speed and figure out were we are regarding the lb position

2. Avoid throwing Haskins out there to the wolves until later in the season. Theres no reason for it.

3. Wait until the end of August and get the maximum return on a top 3 LT in the game. ( imo that is a 1st and 3rd)

4. Wait until the second half of the year to start working in Guice and Love

5. Drive up the value of Doctson. We wont be able to trade him, but a compensation pick might be nice.

6. Lock down Sherf

 

It is the right time to move on from Trent. He still has a ton of value, and we arent a contender. Its right for both parties to make the move. If we are terrible this year it sets us up for an incredible situation. The top end of the draft could include Herbert, Fromme, Tua, and Lawrence. If we are high, we could sell that pick and get a kings ransom. Coming out of the 2020 draft with Jerry Jeudy and Tristan Wirfs would cap the greatest 4-year draft plan in decades.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

It is the right time to move on from Trent. He still has a ton of value, and we arent a contender. Its right for both parties to make the move. If we are terrible this year it sets us up for an incredible situation. The top end of the draft could include Herbert, Fromme, Tua, and Lawrence. If we are high, we could sell that pick and get a kings ransom. Coming out of the 2020 draft with Jerry Jeudy and Tristan Wirfs would cap the greatest 4-year draft plan in decades.

 

Agree though Lawrence can come out in 2021 at the earliest. 

 

But yeah at LT:  Andrew Thomas, Walker Little, Wirfs, Leatherhead on and on.

 

At WR:  Jerry Jeudy, C. Lamb, H. Ruggs, Reagor, Shenault, C. Johnson, T. Johnson on and on

 

It's like being hungry all day and walking into a 5 star buffet.  This draft looks potentially insane.  Then you got a potentially loaded QB draft which should push people down the board and add value to picks for teams like us who don't need QBs.  It's the perfect storm.  Garafalo, Schefter, Laconfora all think they should get at least a first rounder for Trent.  They should make it happen.  

[carex]

38 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Colts did, we could, we didn't and got RG3 instead 😉 Sometimes it's better to take one step backward to be able to jump forward. Nevertheless we're hopeless with Dan at the helm.

 

the Colts would have gone 0-16 to get Luck, the best we could have done was matched them since we didn't play their division and frankly if we'd tanked then our violating the spirit of the salary cap penalty would have included our pick

[rabidskin]

I think we are forgetting how good Trent is and that most all players get injured.  How many Redskins players In the history of our franchise, were considered the #1 player and the best at his position of all 32 teams?  He is definitely the best player on our O-line and the core of our O-line strength....Pay him and stop wasting years of trying to build. We just signed a 36 year old in Penn to take his place?  Trent is 31 and Bruce wants to nitpick the best LT in the NFL???  Give Trent what he deserves contract or not as he has earned it and keep building around him.   When will the FO get it together?...years and years of losing but then you see what a man like Dorsey can do with a 1 win and 33 loss team over 2 years and they can compete for their division now.  I am sure Trent wants to leave, but think what this will start when you hear Kerrigan, Shreff, Payne, Allen all start saying the same when their contracts are almost up.  This will effect all of our players....It's time to change the consistent problem of losing and that is with Allen and Snyder's decisions.  Fire Allen and pay Trent what he deserves.  Winning is now and not always something for the distant future that never gets realized.  How many of you fans can go to work and fail constantly without getting fired.  Are we winning yet year after year?   Why? Is our fan base shrinking?, yes and more each year.  Wait till you see the stands if Trent doesn't play...a few early losses and the stands will empty the Burgundy and Gold and be filled with visiting teams jerseys like last year.  Watch what happens if Trent doesn't play....it won't be pretty.

[carex]

4 minutes ago, rabidskin said:

I think we are forgetting how good Trent is and that most all players get injured.  How many Redskins players In the history of our franchise, were considered the #1 player and the best at his position of all 32 teams?  He is definitely the best player on our O-line and the core of our O-line strength....Pay him and stop wasting years of trying to build.

 

we have seen nothing to suggest he's asking for more money

[HardcoreZorn]

Somehow the fan base is dwindling and tuning out more and more right as we are getting it together and adding more and more cornerstones. I can only hope they translate it the field, specifically that D line. They are going to keep us in a lot of games this year.