skinny21 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 That’s high praise for Chinn @volsmet Robinson out of Tulsa was the corner I was referring to earlier. I think you’ll dig his press game if you haven’t watched him (I’m guessing you have tho). Finally watched Raequan Williams. I like him. Gives ground vs double teams, but he 1 gaps well (IMO), shows success vs run and pass - nice bull rush, and swim move. I think he’d be a nice developmental guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said: You guys are awesome. I appreciate all of you so much for this thread. Except @KDawg. You know why. 😏 2 minutes ago, skinny21 said: That’s high praise for Chinn @volsmet Robinson out of Tulsa was the corner I was referring to earlier. I think you’ll dig his press game if you haven’t watched him (I’m guessing you have tho). Finally watched Raequan Williams. I like him. Gives ground vs double teams, but he 1 gaps well (IMO), shows success vs run and pass - nice bull rush, and swim move. I think he’d be a nice developmental guy. Reggie Robinson is a stud, I know of one rust belt franchise thats been high on him this winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 10 hours ago, volsmet said: Reminds me, almost exactly, of Johnathan Abram. I hadn’t seen a clip of him until the few you just shared. Same speed exactly and he plays with a similar style of ferocity in his play. Though Chinn is a bigger dude, with talk that he can do the hybrid thing. Chinn is 6 '3, 221. Abram, 5 '11, 205. Chinn with 13 INTs, 6 FFs. IMO he can do it all, run stopping, coverage blitzing. He looks like a missile on the field. At least in the 2 games I watched he's just about always around the ball. Plays with attitude-tone setter. He's a converted corner. The main weakness that hits me is his athleticism is a double edge sword where sometimes he overshoots his target and takes himself out of the play at times for that reason. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/get-to-know-jeremy-chinn-the-late-rising-safety-who-could-crack-the-first-round-of-the-2020-nfl-draft/ ...A player you will often find projected to be selected around pick No. 150 overall or so – and in many cases barely among the top 10 safeties in what is not shaping up to be a particularly strong or deep class – is earning much higher accolades in private, among NFL personnel. I am aware of multiple teams who have a late-first/early-second grade on him right now, coming off a stellar outing against big-time prospects in the Senior Bowl, and that may well continue to rise. ...Add in his affable nature and a 30 score on the Wonderlic, plus his positional versatility, and he checks all of the boxes on the checklist of characteristics that propel prospects much higher than what Mock Draft Nation would have you believe this time of year. He is the modern-day NFL defender -- a positionless but highly-athletic and explosive player who can fill a variety of different roles on any given snap. "I think I helped myself at the Senior Bowl showing these NFL teams that I belong playing at that level," Chinn said. Chinn's tape speaks for itself – with 13 career interceptions, including a career-best four his senior season, to go with 181 solo tackles and a handful of them behind the line of scrimmage. Expect to see him among the top five at his position on a lot of revised ratings by March, and, given the trends in the modern passing game, a player who ends up being drafts a whole lot closer to pick 25 than pick 150 by the time the draft rolls around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Duvernay has a similar ability to make chunk plays on basic stuff like Ruggs. It's nice because you don't have to run anything special for them in order for them to be productive. They can thrive in any offense as a compliment to your other pieces. That's the beauty of speed and shiftiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Who you picking Chinn or Dugger? 3rd Round? Will they still be there? @stevemcqueen1 @Skinsinparadise @volsmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I'll be honest, I don't have a good feel for either Chinn or Dugger. I've mostly just been watching the major college guys at safety so far. Many of the ranking websites have those two somewhere between 40 and 80, so it's possibly they could be there at 66. Those rankings are highly volatile though. You can see on drafttek that Chinn jumped 148 spots from their previous ranking of him. I also see that Winnfield Jr has climbed quite a bit on rankings since the combine, and has breached the top 32 on some boards. That bums me out because I had been thinking there was a chance he could be the BPA at 66 and offer us good value. I'd been taking him with that pick in my mock drafts from a couple of weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Based on how I expect things to unfold in FA, I think that 3rd round pick @ 66 is going to be earmarked for a trade-down or a WR that falls. CB, TE, G, FS will be addressed in FA. WR will be the lone "hole" and it's an incredibly deep class. Which is why I could see us trading back for a mid-3rd and another 4th and taking a WR in the mid-3rd. Rivera's recent comments on the OL make me think he's happy with where things stand outside of LT. It sounds like they're set to bring back both Guards, like the OL depth, and just have to figure out Trent's situation. Regardless, I expect us to go OT in some capacity in the 4th or 5th just for future depth/Moses replacement. And obviuosly, if we trade Trent, I think that pick (or our first pcik in the 3rd whichever comes 1st) get's earmarked for OT assuming one is there that fits close enough to BPA. Bradberry, Boston, Hooper and a LB like Klein ... and if we have money and the market isn't too high, maybe someone like LIttleton. That really frees up the draft to go Chase, WR in the 3rd ... and then hit BPA in the 4/4/5 and hopefully get LB, TE, OT or some combo in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Choosing between Chinn and Dugger is interesting. But I think Dugger is a better choice as I think he's more versatile. I'd have to do more leg work on Chinn, I've only watched a handful of him. What I've seen is that he is an intimidating son of a gun out there, but he plays reckless. Which in today's NFL is a mistake for many reasons, including missed tackles and penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 @volsmet, I actually like this IOL class quite a bit. I think Ruiz and Biadasz are top 40 players and Muti is a first round talent who will probably fall because of his injury history. But measuring top 50 picks isn't great for determining the position's quality because of how depressed its draft value is compared to pretty much any other position except safety. If you just go by individual grade instead, there are probably about 15 prospects who I would consider good, and a good bet to become starters. I honestly think there are only like seven edge players and maybe nine or ten IDLs who are as good. I love Chase Young and like Epenesa. I can see the upside in Gross-Matos and Okwara although I think they're just kind of OK right now. And I love Anfernee Jennings and Zach Baun, but view both as natural linebackers who will play a hybrid edge/stack role, and they probably won't spend as much time rushing as the true edge guys. After those six, I'm not a huge fan of anyone else in the class. Maybe Willekes and Anae, but they're nothing special. As a group, their combine workouts were poor too. There isn't a ton of athleticism there this year, we are very fortunate to be in position to draft Chase Young and not have to worry about the lousy depth of the group. Meanwhile give me Shane Lemieux, Robert Hunt, Damien Lewis, or Tyler Biadasz in the third or fourth and I will be super happy with that. Probably be happy with Kindley or Stenberg too. I'm going to go through several other guys that got good grades from Zierlein and see how I feel about them, but I have a feeling the list of day two and day three talent that I like at IOL will grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Jon Runyan, Jr. Watched a few games of his, and I think this one showcases the good and bad. The Good: -Doesn't get thrown off too much by various rush moves. Maintains his base and sticks with his block -Shows some power and aggression and can move people off the line. -Uses his hands decently. Not as well as the top tackle prospects, but he stays engaged with his target. -Gets to second level and creates a wall relatively well. The Bad: -Gets blown up fairly often, and when the DL gets a good power punch on him, his head flails back and that takes him way off balance at times. -Not the best athlete. Can get to second level, but he's not going to get a quick linebacker scraping across. -I don't see much explosion out of him. He can recover even if he's knocked off balance due to decent footwork, and that allows him to anchor. But he doesn't explode into contact. The Verdict: -Worth a 7th rounder if he's on the board. He has a pedigree, but he doesn't wow you enough to warrant taking a risk earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 @JamesMadisonSkins I could see things playing out that way, but I’d be surprised if they plan on a certain position vs going BPA. @volsmet Love Agim’s get off, but does it feel to you that he frequently puts his shoulder into olinemen vs using his hands effectively? I really am a complete novice at breaking down linemen though. Regarding Cleveland, I like his athleticism, but I’m worried about his functional strength in terms of anchoring. So often he got bulled back. To his credit, he almost always stopped his guy, albeit with his back almost up against the qb. Makes me nervous to put him up against top NFL talent though... @stevemcqueen1 On the subject of IOL, any sense of Bredeson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Pittman Jr, Moss' kid, Surtain Jr, and now Runyan Jr Christ I'm getting old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: Pittman Jr, Moss' kid, Surtain Jr, and now Runyan Jr Christ I'm getting old Winfield, Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 I just went through TDN and did a 3+ round mock draft with trades and controlled every team. I also factored in a trade of Trent to LA Chargers for their 2nd round pick. Here's how my top 15 went: 1.1: Cincinnati: Joe Burrow, QB LSU 1.2: Washington: Chase Young, Edge OSU *Trade* MIA sends 1.5, 1.26 and 2.56 to Detroit for 1.3 1.3: Miami: Tua Tagovailoa, QB Alabama 1.4: NY Giants: Mekhi Becton, OT Louisville 1.5: Detroit: Jeffery Okudah, CB OSU 1.6: LA Chargers: Justin Herbert, QB Oregon 1.7: Carolina: Derrick Brown, DT Auburn 1.8: Arizona: CeeDee Lamb, WR Oklahoma 1.9: Jacksonville: Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson 1.10: Cleveland: Jedrick Wills, OT Alabama 1.11: NY Jets: Andrew Thomas, OT Georgia 1.12: Oakland: Jerry Jeudy, WR Alabama 1.13: Indianapolis: Henry Ruggs, WR Alabama 1.14: Tampa Bay: Javon Kinlaw, DT South Carolina 1.15: Denver: Tristan Wirfs, OT Iowa 1.16: Atlanta: K’Lavon Chiasson, Edge LSU 1.17: Dallas: C.J. Henderson, CB Florida 1.18: Miami: Josh Jones, OT Houston 1.19: Oakland: Xavier McKinney, S Alabama 1.20: Jacksonville: Kristian Fulton, CB LSU 1.21: Philadelphia: Justin Jefferson, WR LSU 1.22: Buffalo: AJ Epenesa, Edge Iowa *Trade: IND sends 2.34 and 2.44 to NE for 1.23 1.23: Jordan Love, QB Utah State 1.24: New Orleans: Patrick Queen, LB LSU 1.25: Minnesota: Neville Gallimore, IDL Minnesota 1.26: Detroit: Kenneth Murray, LB Oklahoma 1.27: Seattle: Cesar Ruiz, IOL Michigan 1.28: Baltimore: Yetur Gross-Matos, Edge Penn State 1.29: Tennessee: Terrell Lewis, Edge Alabama 1.30: Green Bay: Laviska Shenault, WR Colorado 1.31: San Francisco: Grant Delpit, S LSU 1.32: Kansas City: Jeff Gladney, CB TCU Rest of Draft for Skins: 2.37: Austin Jackson, OT USC 3.66: Donovan Peoples-Jones, WR Michigan 4.98: Thaddeus Moss, TE LSU Cut it after our early 4th because TDN doesn’t factor in comp picks, and after that it does become a crap-shoot from team to team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 On second thought, I'll take any of the three of them. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said: Who you picking Chinn or Dugger? 3rd Round? Will they still be there? @stevemcqueen1 @Skinsinparadise @volsmet I would be surprised if either of them makes it to our 2nd pick. I’d need to watch more of each, to assign personal preference, but guys that size - who move as they do - will have some arguing for them in round 1. I can’t see either in round 3. If +100 odds were put on each side, I’d bet on one of them going in the first over either of them lasting until the 3rd. 2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: Based on how I expect things to unfold in FA, I think that 3rd round pick @ 66 is going to be earmarked for a trade-down or a WR that falls. CB, TE, G, FS will be addressed in FA. WR will be the lone "hole" and it's an incredibly deep class. Which is why I could see us trading back for a mid-3rd and another 4th and taking a WR in the mid-3rd. Rivera's recent comments on the OL make me think he's happy with where things stand outside of LT. It sounds like they're set to bring back both Guards, like the OL depth, and just have to figure out Trent's situation. Regardless, I expect us to go OT in some capacity in the 4th or 5th just for future depth/Moses replacement. And obviuosly, if we trade Trent, I think that pick (or our first pcik in the 3rd whichever comes 1st) get's earmarked for OT assuming one is there that fits close enough to BPA. Bradberry, Boston, Hooper and a LB like Klein ... and if we have money and the market isn't too high, maybe someone like LIttleton. That really frees up the draft to go Chase, WR in the 3rd ... and then hit BPA in the 4/4/5 and hopefully get LB, TE, OT or some combo in there. Rumor in the land of the lost is Washington likes Shenault. Perhaps he falls as others move up. 🤷🏻♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said: @volsmet, I actually like this IOL class quite a bit. I think Ruiz and Biadasz are top 40 players and Muti is a first round talent who will probably fall because of his injury history. But measuring top 50 picks isn't great for determining the position's quality because of how depressed its draft value is compared to pretty much any other position except safety. If you just go by individual grade instead, there are probably about 15 prospects who I would consider good, and a good bet to become starters. I honestly think there are only like seven edge players and maybe nine or ten IDLs who are as good. I love Chase Young and like Epenesa. I can see the upside in Gross-Matos and Okwara although I think they're just kind of OK right now. And I love Anfernee Jennings and Zach Baun, but view both as natural linebackers who will play a hybrid edge/stack role, and they probably won't spend as much time rushing as the true edge guys. After those six, I'm not a huge fan of anyone else in the class. Maybe Willekes and Anae, but they're nothing special. As a group, their combine workouts were poor too. There isn't a ton of athleticism there this year, we are very fortunate to be in position to draft Chase Young and not have to worry about the lousy depth of the group. Meanwhile give me Shane Lemieux, Robert Hunt, Damien Lewis, or Tyler Biadasz in the third or fourth and I will be super happy with that. Probably be happy with Kindley or Stenberg too. I'm going to go through several other guys that got good grades from Zierlein and see how I feel about them, but I have a feeling the list of day two and day three talent that I like at IOL will grow. I grade a class on its potential/likely impact, last years interior OL was loaded at the top, including several easy top 50 overall prospects, I just don’t see much in this one. If you rank your top 15 interior OL, I’d put 15 Edge guys against them and be shocked if the edge guys didn’t have a far greater impact in the league. There is almost always depth on the interior, but this year is about as bad as it gets, imo. Baun was a pass rusher in college, his ability to rush the passer is what moves him up, I would certainly include him in my top 15 edge, which is obviously an important inclusion. Certainly you may be correct, but last year ...Jenkins, Mccoy, Bradbury, Risner ...it was a loaded class & here you’re talking about guys you’d take in round 3, but guys like that exist in every draft, so I don’t give it the ++ grade you do. Of course, I also like Weaver & Lewis who you aren’t particularly high on. I’d prefer any of anyone’s top 5 edge guys to anyone’s #1 iOL in this class - last year I was higher on the iOL than 99%, this year it appears I’m lower. I hope you’re correct, the more perceived depth at each position, the more likely someone we love falls to us in 3/4 + 5. 15 minutes ago, volsmet said: Rumor in the land of the lost is Washington likes Shenault. Perhaps he falls as others move up. 🤷🏻♂️ I should say, our OC likes Shenault. 2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Meanwhile give me Shane Lemieux, Robert Hunt, Damien Lewis, or Tyler Biadasz in the third or fourth and I will be super happy with that. Probably be happy with Kindley or Stenberg too. I'm going to go through several other guys that got good grades from Zierlein and see how I feel about them, but I have a feeling the list of day two and day three talent that I like at IOL will grow. Steve doesn’t even mention my boy Jonah Jackson. 😕 1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said: Pittman Jr, Moss' kid, Surtain Jr, and now Runyan Jr Christ I'm getting old I was thinking the same yesterday reading an update on Canes TE Michael Irvin Jr. Incidentally, I expected Bobby Hurley to be at Duke long enough to play with his son. What a heart warming story that would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: I just went through TDN and did a 3+ round mock draft with trades and controlled every team. I also factored in a trade of Trent to LA Chargers for their 2nd round pick. Here's how my top 15 went: 1 hour ago, KDawg said: On second thought, I'll take any of the three of them. Seriously. 40 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: Nice to see Oregon donate uniforms to the Hawkeyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, skinny21 said: @stevemcqueen1 On the subject of IOL, any sense of Bredeson? I would say that I get a Jonah Williams playing style vibe from him. Reputation for being a high intangibles guy. Pretty good technician, with NFL size. Can definitely dance with rushers and he has a quick first couple steps. He can jump set and hit his spot/target and he is a nice puller. I think the biggest issue with his game is a lack of functional power. Voch Lombardi is going to say he's not on the ass-whupping team this year. Very very little dominance and meanness as a run blocker and finisher. Definitely lacks the kind of easy, explosive power that Muti and Lewis and Hunt have so much of, and that's kind of a downer. But even though he's no mauler, he's a very good pass blocker and he can do enough winning as a run blocker to not be a drag on your run game, particularly as a puller and stretch run blocker. I think him and Lewis are probably the two best pass blockers among the guards. It's unfortunate for him that he didn't work out at the combine, because I could have seen him running well. He's a very easy and natural runner. I like other players at the position more than him, but I could certainly understand teams drafting him above some of the guys I like more due to the quality of his pass blocking reps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Just as a public service announcement to anyone watching these Michigan offensive players, be sure to take frequent breaks and decompress. The human nervous system was not designed to spend a lot of time watching Shea Patterson quarterback that offense. You'll end up like a CIA detainee who got waterboarded too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Just as a public service announcement to anyone watching these Michigan offensive players, be sure to take frequent breaks and decompress. The human nervous system was not designed to spend a lot of time watching Shea Patterson quarterback that offense. You'll end up like a CIA detainee who got waterboarded too much. They covered this on Stick to Football podcast a few weeks back in talking up Donovan Peoples-Jones ... that if he had a competent QB and stats to show for his last season he would likely be in the Top 5 WR discussion. They spent a good 5 minutes on how angry Shea Patterson makes them haha Hey @volsmet I ran the same TDN concept but did so with a trade-down. 1.5: Isaiah Simmons, LB Clemson 1.18: Andrew Thomas, OT Georgia 2.37: Tee Higgins, WR Clemson (From LAC for Trent) 2.56: Adam Trautman, TE Dayton 3.66: Damon Arnette, CB Ohio State 4.98: Kenny Willekes, DE Michigan State Trade scenario would be 5, 18, 56 and a 2021 1st for #2. Leveraging #2 and the Trent situation for LB Simmons, OT Thomas, WR Higgins, TE Trautman and a 1st in 2021 would be pretty ideal. I like Kenny Willekes from MSU ... he had an insane SPARQ score and is 6'3 260 .. so fits the 4-3 DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said: Who you picking Chinn or Dugger? 3rd Round? Will they still be there? @stevemcqueen1 @Skinsinparadise @volsmet I like a lot about what I've read about Dugger but haven't really watched him but I plan to find some time today. I like a lot of what I've seen and read about Chinn. Chinn to my eyes is a baller. Once I watch Dugger closely I'll give my apples to apples comparison. Both dudes are similar size. But Chinn slightly bigger 6 '3, 221 versus 6 '1, 217. Chinn slightly faster and slightly stronger. Chinn with 13 INTs and 6 FF. Dugger with 6 INTs and no FF. 47 minutes ago, volsmet said: I should say, our OC likes Shenault. I am back and forth about Shenault but I can see why Turner would love him, since he supposedly loves the sweeps, end arounds, etc -- that's Shenault's wheel house, he's like a RB with the ball in his hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said: Pittman Jr, Moss' kid, Surtain Jr, and now Runyan Jr Christ I'm getting old John Kitna’s kid just signed a letter of intent with Oregon State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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