JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 39 minutes ago, nonniey said: Well it depends on what the article said the trades were for. If we ended up at three with an extra pick this year or in the future and drafted the guy we would have at 2 anyway then that extra pick is what we'd gain. Dolphins trade 5/18/39/56 to Skins for 2. Skins trade 5/18/66 to Lions for 3. Skins get Chase at 3 and net 39 and 56. I mean there are a dozen ways you can slice the potential trade given how many picks each side has, especially the Dolphins. If the Lions, Dolphins and Skins all entered a 3 way trade discussion then I think it could benefit everyone a bit more. Lions get 5, 18 Skins get 3, 56 Dolphins get 2 Skins gain a late 2 ... Lions get access to one of the stud defenders + 18 ... and Dolphins jump up to #2 and give up substantially less than they would have to if they went straight to 2 with WAS ... But this scenario would require everyone to be honest but also sell the realities of them staying in their respective spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 18 hours ago, The Consigliere said: He's scary fast, did a wonderful job finding the end zone for Alabama, and there's literally ZERO WR's with his profile that weren't straight up busts over the past decade plus. Hmm, that's a good point. I'm struggling to think of any. Super speedsters are often injury prone, which isn't Ruggs problem as far as I know. But a lot of the lower catch speedsters in college don't translate well to the pros for whatever reason. 18 hours ago, The Consigliere said: The best producer with an analogous profile is Ted Ginn, and literally noone thought he was worth the investment within a year of his selection. I get being attracted to the TD's, to the speed, to the athleticism, to the Alabama Helmet, but come, man, it's just absurd. 12 catches 46 catches 40 catches. No breakout age because there isn't a breakout season, market share is awful (17th percentile) The closest I can think of is Santana Moss. Similar size, 5'10 190ish to Ruggs 5'11 190ish (although Moss put on pounds once he hit the NFL). Dominator Rating: Ruggs - 17.5% Moss - 24.8% Last 3 seasons at college: Ruggs - 12 catches, 46, and 40 Moss - 30, 54, and 45 40 speed: Ruggs - 4.27 Moss - 4.31 Vertical: Ruggs - 42" Moss - 42" Both played on absolutely stacked teams. The 'U' teams that Moss played on were loaded with NFL pro-bowlers (and possible HoFers). Likewise, the 'Bama teams that Ruggs played on are probably also loaded with future NFL pro-bowlers. 18 hours ago, The Consigliere said: This isn't to say that Ruggs will be a bust, he's a mega athlete, and like McClaurin and Thomas at OSU, he was battling a gigantic pile of future day 1 and day 2 NFL prospects for playing time which explains some of the issues in terms of production, but man, when you are using a top 10-15 pick in the NFL draft, a draft this deep at the position, why are you taking on so much crazy risk with your first rounder? Just strikes me as insane, way too much bust risk for a position noted for piles of busts, and not terribly wise to use early 1sts on to begin with, even when the profiles are actually good. Yikes. I'm still in the mindset that Ruggs is going to be a good WR in the NFL, but you're right it is kind of telling that I can only think of 1 successful comparison to his size, athletic profile, and college production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 😩 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Two run throughs on a draft simulator: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 We get pick 5, Miami’s #1 next year, and pick 39 We trade next years 2 firsts to Detroit for pick 3 We draft Young at 3 We draft Simmons at 5 We draft Mims at 39 Errybody happppeyy happppey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, volsmet said: We get pick 5, Miami’s #1 next year, and pick 39 We trade next years 2 firsts to Detroit for pick 3 We draft Young at 3 We draft Simmons at 5 We draft Mims at 39 Errybody happppeyy happppey We're happy as pigs in ****. Until 2021 when we have no first rounder and have nothing to look forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, KDawg said: We're happy as pigs in ****. Until 2021 when we have no first rounder and have nothing to look forward to. Matt Moore will be a FA again in 2021, so we’ll have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, volsmet said: Matt Moore will be a FA again in 2021, so we’ll have that. We're gonna sign him for 12 years, $12M this year. Guaranteed, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, KDawg said: We're happy as pigs in ****. Until 2021 when we have no first rounder and have nothing to look forward to. Haha I was going to say. Until 2021 rolls around at that ends up being pick #3 and #17 ... I'd rather trade 5 and 39 and 66 for 2 and pocket the #1 next year haha. @KDawg I still can't do TDN with too much joy as long as they don't have the comp picks factored in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 No chance in hell Detroit would take two future firsts for #3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said: @KDawg I still can't do TDN with too much joy as long as they don't have the comp picks factored in. I can't handle how ****ty some of the draft sites are. The one linked on the post in this forum is formatted so poorly I can't handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, KDawg said: I can't handle how ****ty some of the draft sites are. The one linked on the post in this forum is formatted so poorly I can't handle it. FanSpeak is soooo much more versatile than TDN but the format for TDN is so much nicer. I wish the two could be blended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, volsmet said: We get pick 5, Miami’s #1 next year, and pick 39 We trade next years 2 firsts to Detroit for pick 3 We draft Young at 3 We draft Simmons at 5 We draft Mims at 39 Errybody happppeyy happppey Everybody but the Lions and the other NFC East teams. 23 minutes ago, KDawg said: We're happy as pigs in ****. Until 2021 when we have no first rounder and have nothing to look forward to. Of course if Detroit was stupid enough to do that our happiness over that trade would far surpass us not having an exciting 2021 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 17 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: Good insight: That's interesting. He says something to gist of FA is about filling holes, Draft is about adding talent, period. Draft philosophy is pure BPA over Need. If this is true, then it's a big difference from Bruce Allen who was leaned into the Need side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, nonniey said: Everybody but the Lions and the other NFC East teams. Of course if Detroit was stupid enough to do that our happiness over that trade would far surpass us not having an exciting 2021 draft. SPOILER ALERT: They wouldn't. Ol' @volsmet just wanted to generate some excitement today. Been too quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 I think we have some positions that could certainly be addressed, but reading the tea-leaves from what the FO has said ... our "holes" would be: TE, WR2, CB1, LB Fans assume FS, but haven't hard anything from our coaching staff or front office to assume we definitely need to go after that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: Haha I was going to say. Until 2021 rolls around at that ends up being pick #3 and #17 ... I'd rather trade 5 and 39 and 66 for 2 and pocket the #1 next year haha. @KDawg I still can't do TDN with too much joy as long as they don't have the comp picks factored in. 3 & 17 for Chase is a deal ESers are willing to make. 1 hour ago, PartyPosse said: No chance in hell Detroit would take two future firsts for #3 Not in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, volsmet said: 3 & 17 for Chase is a deal ESers are willing to make. Right. Well, considering many on here wouldn't trade 2 for 5 and 18 this year ... But more so ... in that trade scenario I would be looking at going BPA and just loading up on talent, but the one area that might be void of talent is OT, depending on how the chips would fall. And in that case, we'd be looking at a stop gap in 2020 and that draft capital in 2021 would be critical to landing a stud LT and DE (assuming Kerrigan isn't the long-term solution oppisite Sweat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 48 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: That's interesting. He says something to gist of FA is about filling holes, Draft is about adding talent, period. Draft philosophy is pure BPA over Need. If this is true, then it's a big difference from Bruce Allen who was leaned into the Need side of things. Sounds like an influx of Vols heading to Ashburn. Incidentally, ever since we stopped drafting Vols & started loading up on Bammers, we have been turrrrble. 🤔 18 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: I think we have some positions that could certainly be addressed, but reading the tea-leaves from what the FO has said ... our "holes" would be: TE, WR2, CB1, LB Fans assume FS, but haven't hard anything from our coaching staff or front office to assume we definitely need to go after that position. We are the Swissest of the cheeses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, volsmet said: Sounds like an influx of Vols heading to Ashburn. Incidentally, ever since we stopped drafting Vols & started loading up on Bammers, we have been turrrrble. 🤔 We are the Swissest of the cheeses. I don't know. I really don't think we have that many holes and I think most of our issues on defense stem from atrocious coaching. That being said, we do need at the very least depth at CB, can stand to bring in a better FS, and could use some talent at LB. On offense, we need a WR2 and TE at the very least. OT and OG is TBD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: I think we have some positions that could certainly be addressed, but reading the tea-leaves from what the FO has said ... our "holes" would be: TE, WR2, CB1, LB Tackle is the big one though. They’ve only talked about it in regards to Trent, but if he isn’t returning.... 1 minute ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: Fans assume FS, but haven't hard anything from our coaching staff or front office to assume we definitely need to go after that position. Good point. With Collins, Nicholson, Apke and Everett on board, they may actually feel ok there, particularly if they put a lot of blame on coaching/communication. On the other hand, they haven’t talked about the position, as opposed to dline and rb - which they’ve been positive about. Actually, they’ve been positive about the linebackers, corners and receivers too... hmm. The only spots I haven’t seen them address are FS, C and RT... that’s kind of interesting, now that I think about it. Regarding TDN’s mock, I tried to just pretend comp picks were accounted for by mentally removing a slew of guys in later rounds (and seeing who was available late 5th and beyond for our 4th rd comp pick). So, for 4.2, I just skipped the first 8-10 guys available. For 5.2, I skipped 20 or so, etc. 1 - Chase Young, Edge 3 - Bryce Hall, CB 4 - K’von Wallace, S 4 - Michael Pittman or Tyler Johnson, WR 5 - Devin Asiasi, TE 7 - Raequan Williams, IDL 7 - Darius “Jet” Anderson, RB Might have gone with Quarterman in the 5th and Dalton Keene in the 7th instead. @KDawg One thing I love about Simmons (among others), is that he could both fill a big need at SLB - I don’t see a real viable option there - and wouldn’t have to come off the field in nickel. I know you know that obviously, but man, what a huge help to our D and it’s versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 @volsmet let's say: Sign: CB James Bradberry FS Karl Joseph LB Corey Littleton TE Eric Ebron LG Ereck Flowers RG Brandon Scherff Draft: 1.2: Chase Young, Edge OSU 2.9: Austin Jackson, OT USC (from Cleveland for Trent) 3.2: Damon Arnette, CB OSU 4.2: Saahdiq Charles, OT LSU 4.38: KJ Hill, WR OSU 5.2: Thaddeus Moss, TE LSU If the team could put together this sort of off-season in the next 2 months, and you look to the draft class in hopes that the players in the Top 5 rounds can at least contribute and develop to fill holes, then I would objectively say ... For 2020 Season: Major holes: None on the surface Potential holes: LT, WR2 And those potential holes are listed because you don't have sure-fire starters locked in ... but you do have a lot of upside. Obviously you aren't going to head into the 2021 off-season with 0 holes. There will be some that certainly emerge. Some of the FA signings may not deliver like you'd hope ... or some of the draft picks you make might not accelerate and develop as you'd like. Maybe you let Charles and Jackson fight it out for RT and Swing OT and cut Moses and priorite LT with the 1st round pick. Chase Roullier likely leaves after 2020 and maybe Ross Pierschbacher doesn't develop and they have an obvious hole at OC ... But regardless, my point is that I agree we have holes, but the idea that we have too many to fill is silly. We might have holes/uncertainties at some very key positions, but we also have $60+ million (or $74 if we trade Trent) in cap space and some draft capital to get things done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 And @volsmet while I am ALL for loading up on as much talent as possible, I actually struggle quite a bit in any trade-down scenario because I find I have too many picks, and none of the players available fit glaring needs. Obviously you go BPA and it's a great problem to have, but at a certain point you have to look at the roster and realize we have a lot of talent, and no obvious "get him off the 53" guys. In the same scenario above re: Free Agency and Trent Trade ... Sign: CB James Bradberry FS Karl Joseph LB Corey Littleton TE Eric Ebron LG Ereck Flowers RG Brandon Scherff Trade-Down Draft: 1.5: Jedrick Wills, OT Alabama 1.18: Henry Ruggs, WR Alabama 2.7: Lloyd Cushenberry, C LSU 2.9: Cole Kmet, TE Notre Dame 3.2: Damon Arnette, CB OSU 4.2: Akeem Davis-Gaither, LB App State 4.38: KJ Hill, WR OSU 5.2: Saahdiq Charles, OT LSU Your holes are really filled and exceeded by pick 2.9. The rest is just icing on the cake. TE with Ebron + Kmet. LB with Littleton + Gaither ... RT with Charles and LT with Wills ... CB with Bradberry and Arnette ... KJ Hill just icing on the cake as the WR4 or WR5 behind McLaurin, Ruggs, Harmon, Sims ... I am all for that draft BTW, completely amazing and ... honestly I would be very, very tempted to take that over the Chase pick because it absolutely revolutionizes the roster top to bottom ... but you're kind of filling holes with good to strong starters, and other than swapping Trent (Strength) for Wills and adding Ruggs and Kmet as quality starting options, you aren't really drafting any flat out elite talents like Chase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: I don't know. I really don't think we have that many holes and I think most of our issues on defense stem from atrocious coaching. That being said, we do need at the very least depth at CB, can stand to bring in a better FS, and could use some talent at LB. On offense, we need a WR2 and TE at the very least. OT and OG is TBD. The great thing about our new staff is we’ll see just how gifted our guys are, they’ll be one gap exploding chaos creating burgundy body snatchers. Would you make Scherff a top 2 paid G? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, volsmet said: Would you make Scherff a top 2 paid G? Probably. Primarily because the cap is rising and that #2 paid OG will look really 1-2 years into the contract. Plus it beats the alternative, which is creating another hole you have to fill (whether as a starter, or to backup Martin/Flowers). He's also a really strong starter, is a mean blocker, and can help anchor the OL when you are likely to lose both starting OTs in the next 12 months and probably replace them with young players needing some leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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