2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

Rashaan Evans was nasty too.  That TFL he got on that goal line sequence was amazing.  Really impressed with the way this Titans team came together.  They've been drafting well the past several years.

[Riggo'sRangers]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

Rashaan Evans was nasty too.  That TFL he got on that goal line sequence was amazing.  Really impressed with the way this Titans team came together.  They've been drafting well the past several years.

They sure as hell have. They are going to be a problem in the AFC going forward. Good coaching too.

[Going Commando]

10 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I’m already on record as wanting this. Harris and Guice and Love could be super potent, if healthy. If Guice isn’t healthy, that’s even more reason we would benefit from Harris. 
 

mcqueen, what do you think of Najee’s pass blocking?

 

Due to the nature of his role for Alabama, you won't really see him pass blocking very much.  Basically runs routes on any play that's not a handoff except for some play action looks where he sets up behind the center and leaks out if no blitz is coming.  I don't think it should be an issue though.  He's really powerful and imposing and physical.  It's just a matter of him learning all of his new protections and honing technique.  Looks like he tends to oversell the play-fake and doesn't get set up as quickly as he should.  He's a deliberate mover.  That's good for setting up runs but not blocks.

 

But most collegiate running backs have to make a similarly difficult jump to the NFL as pass blockers because of how few protections college teams run.  So the learning curve for Najee shouldn't be unusual.  We can't tell his capacity for synthesizing new info from where we sit, but even guys who need a lot of reps to get things to click can eventually become really good.  Guice had a reputation for that coming out of LSU and his pass blocking grade was outstanding this season.  I like Najee's potential because he's huge and he's definitely not scared of hitting people.

[Going Commando]

Rewatching the Rose Bowl and I'm a lot more impressed with Herbert's play than I was the first time I saw the game.  Teams are going to see Josh Allen in him.  He's going to be a top ten pick IMO.  His ability to fire throws in the gaps between the linebackers and safeties is rare.  As is his ability to stick long throws outside the numbers against solid coverage.  Plus he's got size and real speed.  He's got a low key personality that won't ruffle any feathers.  He'd be a great fit for Carolina if they move on from Cam.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Thoughts on us landing Alabama's DeVonta Smith with our 3rd round pick this year? I like him better than Ruggs who seems to be going higher in most mocks. I think we could nab him and get another steal in the 3rd.

 

Terry McLaurin and DeVonta Smith could be a pretty deadly duo. I think the speed of McLaurin, Smith, and Sims would be too much for teams to handle, all three are burners. 

[Est.1974]

Rivera inherited Peppers, first thing he did was get his QB in Cam, next draft he got his defensive captain in Kuechly. He he said he liked the look of our backers, but I think we go Young then LB in the draft. 

 

I think well we'll end up with sneaky good value at TE in the mid round too. Could be an overlooked position.

[Skinsinparadise]

I just watched three games of Hunter Bryant.  I like him.  I don't love him but I keep hearing there aren't many TEs to love in this draft.  So beggars can't be choosers.   But for the 4th round, I'd consider.

 

He doesn't physically look the part IMO.  He looks like a slightly oversized receiver.   He's a bit small and not imposing looking for a TE.   The reason why I watched him first is a draft geek type said he's one of the more well rounded TEs in this draft and he can block.   IMO that's sort of true but not exactly.  He's not like Hockenson where he's a mauler and his blocking stands out.  From what I saw he's inconsistent as a blocker.  He can get mauled on some plays himself and just flat out whiffs on blocks at times. 

 

But he's a willing blocker. Vernon Davis and Jordan Reed at times look like they want no part of the action as to getting physical blocking -- Bryant on the other hand will engage.  But I'd rate him as an average blocker at best nothing hot.  He's feisty as a blocker and will lock in and on some plays impress and move the defenders.  And on other plays not but not for a lack of effort.  I'll give him that he has the right mindset for it. 

 

I think he needs another 10 pounds of muscle.  Right now he's not a TE who can move people at the point of attack.  He can handle safeties and corners just fine but he's not a big enough dude IMO to handle D linemen as a blocker.   

 

As a receiver, he's somewhat impressive but nothing insane.  He was a go to type for Eason.  They move him around a lot - slot, outside, etc.  They really use him somewhat like a receiver.  He's wicked coming on crossing routes up the middle and for a TE he's a good YAC guy -- so would be a good fit for Haskins' strength.  they also send him deep more than the typical TE -- it looks like he's going to time well at the combine based on what I saw -- good speed, agility, etc.    Makes some really nice catches, I show a one handed one here.  But also has some drops.  He sort of strikes me as a poor man's Jordan Reed -- not as good as a passing weapon but better blocker.  But again he's nothing to write home about as a blocker.

 

I put a Chase Young clip at the bottom.  I watched one of Bryants' games versus Ohio State from 2018 and it showcased Chase some.  I think an underrated part of his game is how he can occupy the opponent's RB and TE to help the tackles which in effect takes a playmaker out of the play for the QB. 

 

[Going Commando]

In the middle of watching stack linebackers and not sure if I like or dislike Chris Orr.  He's a very odd player.  Manifestly good downhill thumper and weakside blitzer who spends a lot of his time in various difficult coverages.  Doesn't look like a particularly good or coordinated coverage player, but he has ball skills and produces and he doesn't crap his pants when he's got a difficult assignment.  He's super confident in his coverages even though it's very seat of his pants stuff.  It's like he just refuses to acknowledge he's not good at it and somehow gets it done.  Closes like a freight train when he gets the right read, but the processing looks pretty slow at times, and he gets fooled more than you expect from a guy who is a star on a super highly ranked defense.  He is an absolute pitbull in scrummage situations.  He's the teammate you want to come back you up when you get stood up by a ball carrier and are hanging on for your life.  And he tangles with climbing guards who look twice as big as him and wins!

 

He's got a weird body for the position.  Reminds me of the build that Steven Daniels had when we drafted him out of Boston College.  Very compact.  Very long armed.  No neck.  He's from the London Fletcher school at the position, except that he doesn't have anything close to London's HoF caliber instincts.  I think he'll go in the sixth or seventh round if he gets drafted.  He'll get chances because he can play all three linebacker spots.

 

I could see a broad range of outcomes for him at the next level.  He's either going to find a way to be a good cog for a creative 4-3 team that heavily utilizes his skill as a blitzer.  I could see him being one of those late round gems the Ravens always seem to dig up out of nowhere.  Or he'll be out of the league in two seasons, much like Steven Daniels was.

 

Clearly Malik Harrison and Micah Parsons are a lot cleaner and better prospects than him.  Something about him though.  He's a testament to value of heart in football.

 

On the other hand from Orr, I know I don't really like Troy Dye.  He's a great athlete and a very aggressive player and a leader, and he's made a ton of plays in the passing game, but I think he's got too many flaws to be worthy of the third round projection that most places seem to be giving him.  The play strength is a serious detriment.  If he gets blocked, the gap is lost.  He can't get off of blocks by tight ends.  And his pursuit and fit angles just aren't good enough.  I don't think he sees the field well and an under-strength chase and hit WILL like him has got to see where the blocks are setting up and keep himself clean as he works to the ball.  He definitely can't be effective on the strong side, and most 3-4 teams aren't really going to want him.  So he's a pure 4-3 WILL.  But a 4-3 WILL with messy play recognition?  That's late round value.  I think he's going to get over-drafted due to his height and speed.  He has good special teams potential though.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

So he's a pure 4-3 WILL.  But a 4-3 WILL with messy play recognition?  That's late round value.  I think he's going to get over-drafted due to his height and speed.  He has good special teams potential though.

 

Speaking of Will LBs, I can see some good fits here for that spot.  Who do you think is the SAM LB here?  That's the one spot that I struggle with.    Maybe they can do what the Giants did years back when they moved Kiwanuka to that spot even though arguably he was more of a natural DE and that didn't end up that hot from what I recall.  The Redskins version of that I guess would be Kerrigan but he doesn't strike me as a good SAM. 

 

Foster-Hamilton both strike me as more as a WILL.  Holcomb and Bostic as MLBs.  The SAM to me isn't evident.    I guess if Del Rio runs a 4-3 underfront a lot, the SAM sort of becomes a quasi 3-4 OLB type so you can use Kerrigan-Sweat in that way.  But it seems like they have to acquire a natural fit for that spot. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I think this is a good move by him, he will put up monster numbers in 2020.  He and Waddle will be somewhat like the Jeudy-Ruggs version of the 2021 draft.  I'd give an edge to Jeudy-Ruggs but I think the other duo isn't a mile behind. 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Speaking of Will LBs, I can see some good fits here for that spot.  Who do you think is the SAM LB here?  That's the one spot that I struggle with.    Maybe they can do what the Giants did years back when they moved Kiwanuka to that spot even though arguably he was more of a natural DE and that didn't end up that hot from what I recall.  The Redskins version of that I guess would be Kerrigan but he doesn't strike me as a good SAM. 

 

Foster-Hamilton both strike me as more as a WILL.  Holcomb and Bostic as MLBs.  The SAM to me isn't evident.    I guess if Del Rio runs a 4-3 underfront a lot, the SAM sort of becomes a quasi 3-4 OLB type so you can use Kerrigan-Sweat in that way.  But it seems like they have to acquire a natural fit for that spot.  

 

I'd say you're right that there isn't an obvious SAM fit, but that Ryan Anderson is probably the best option there.  Josh Harvey Clemons has the size and is a natural fit to man cover tight ends because of how tall he is.  But he basically fell off the defensive depth chart this past season, so his future here is uncertain.

 

It's not a super important position given that we have Landon Collins.  As you point out, we can primarily use edge players in the spot.  We need a good nickel defensive back though.  It'd be nice to find someone who can rush and be a real asset in run support.  A safety/corner hybrid who is comfortable in the slot would be really nice to get.  I was pretty impressed with Jack Burrell in the Rose Bowl.  Was really impressed with K'Von Wallce in the Clemson-Ohio State game too.  Xavier McKinney could definitely play that kind of role too but he'll probably get drafted too high for us.

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think this is a good move by him, he will put up monster numbers in 2020.  He and Waddle will be somewhat like the Jeudy-Ruggs version of the 2021 draft.  I'd give a slight edge to Jeudy-Ruggs but I think the other duo isn't a mile behind. 

 

I think it's a good move too.  Kind of undermines our ability to hunt value at the WR position though.

 

I've got to disagree with the assertion in the tweet that he can be the #1 WR next year.  The underclassmen are too good.  It'll be hard for him to get picked ahead of Ross and Chase for sure.  Bateman is awesome too and Rondale Moore is going to be eligible as well.  It's going to be a more top heavy class at WR next year than this one is.

[Anselmheifer]

28 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'd say you're right that there isn't an obvious SAM fit, but that Ryan Anderson is probably the best option there.  Josh Harvey Clemons has the size and is a natural fit to man cover tight ends because of how tall he is.  But he basically fell off the defensive depth chart this past season, so his future here is uncertain.

 

It's not a super important position given that we have Landon Collins.  As you point out, we can primarily use edge players in the spot.  We need a good nickel defensive back though.  It'd be nice to find someone who can rush and be a real asset in run support.  A safety/corner hybrid who is comfortable in the slot would be really nice to get.  I was pretty impressed with Jack Burrell in the Rose Bowl.  Was really impressed with K'Von Wallce in the Clemson-Ohio State game too.  Xavier McKinney could definitely play that kind of role too but he'll probably get drafted too high for us.

 

I'm starting to think that it isn't that critical to be filling all of our holes on defense this year. Rookie pass rushers can be very good, but I would look for Sweat-Allen-Payne-Ioannidis-Young to be closer to peak in 2021. I think this year is about making sure Haskins develops. If Haskins develops, given our youth and telent on the DL and the presence of McLaurin, this team is going to be good. I think we want FS, LB and CB shored up by 2021. 

 

I don't like Ryan Anderson at Sam. His movement skills are too poor. Maybe he backs up the SAM and DE spots. I'd prefer Kerrigan over Anderson as our SAM, but I think our SAM of the future isn't on the team. 

 

And, I love Devonta Smith. This is a good move for him. Not only is this draft rich at WR, but it is also deep and talented at the top of the first. All of that talent was going to push Smith down. And we didn't have a second to grab him anyway. 

Also, I'm not at all sour about our lack of a second. I think Sweat is easily going to justify the cost of two seconds, especially when played across from Chase Young. 

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Speaking of Will LBs, I can see some good fits here for that spot.  Who do you think is the SAM LB here?  That's the one spot that I struggle with.    Maybe they can do what the Giants did years back when they moved Kiwanuka to that spot even though arguably he was more of a natural DE and that didn't end up that hot from what I recall.  The Redskins version of that I guess would be Kerrigan but he doesn't strike me as a good SAM. 

 

Foster-Hamilton both strike me as more as a WILL.  Holcomb and Bostic as MLBs.  The SAM to me isn't evident.    I guess if Del Rio runs a 4-3 underfront a lot, the SAM sort of becomes a quasi 3-4 OLB type so you can use Kerrigan-Sweat in that way.  But it seems like they have to acquire a natural fit for that spot. 

Bostic is out of course, unless we re-sign him.  I feel like our best fits for SAM are Sweat, JHC, and McKinzey as I feel like they have a decent/good blend of size, speed and athleticism.  Brailford is a big unknown to me (is he more of an end or OLB?).  Anderson and Kerrigan are possibilities, but I really question their coverage skills... same with Orchard.  
Personally, I think Sweat is a little more like Kiwanuka than Kerrigan is - long and fairly lean - though Kiwanuka bulked up for DE, shed some for OLB, and then added it back to move back onto the line.

[Anselmheifer]

14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Bostic is out of course, unless we re-sign him.  I feel like our best fits for SAM are Sweat, JHC, and McKinzey as I feel like they have a decent/good blend of size, speed and athleticism.  Brailford is a big unknown to me (is he more of an end or OLB?).  Anderson and Kerrigan are possibilities, but I really question their coverage skills... same with Orchard.  
Personally, I think Sweat is a little more like Kiwanuka than Kerrigan is - long and fairly lean - though Kiwanuka bulked up for DE, shed some for OLB, and then added it back to move back onto the line.

 

I don't think JHC is going to amount to anything. Sweat is going to be our best option at LDE, across from Chase Young, hopefully. If the SAM spot is used largely as a run stopper and extra rusher, I think McKinzy could be an option here, but I also really like Brailford as a developmental option. Brailford is the same size as Marcus Washington with slightly longer arms, and has a better 40 time and vertical leap than Marcus Washington, Ryan Kerrigan, Ryan Anderson or Cassanova McKinzey. He's a plus athlete at the spot and was a productive pass rusher in college. It's the kind of draft and stash move the Ravens would make. I'm not sure Brailford has the instincts for it, but I'd love to see him get a try there. Maybe he can be coached up. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jordan-brailford?id=32194252-4143-9937-a42d-be30771b4671

 

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Marcus&l=Washington&i=4631

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ryan-kerrigan?id=2495190

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ryan-anderson?id=2557853

 

Edit: Also, did anyone watch Blake Cashman enough this year to see how he looked? I thought we should have drafted him last year.

[skinny21]

@Anselmheifer - I believe Del Rio used Von Miller as a SAM - part of the reason I mentioned Sweat there - but moreso because he’s just more athletic and has a better body type than Anderson (like a large radius to muddy throwing lanes).  I think it’s fair to guess he is our DE opposite Young though.  
 

Thanks for the info on Brailford... good to know.  
 

I’ve said it before, but even though we have questions of who will fit where, I like that we have a large range of diversity in our LB corp.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I think it indicates Tua might stay. If so the interesting part of it is I think the only off chance you get a haul for the #2 pick is if lets say SD and Miami both want Tua and decide to get into a bidding war.  But without Tua out, I don't see serious takers for the #2 pick. Herbert to me is too much of a wild card to trade up for that high.  That's all fine with me I am perfectly content with taking Chase at #2.

 

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think it indicates Tua might stay. If so the interesting part of it is I think the only off chance you get a haul for the #2 pick is if lets say SD and Miami both want Tua and decide to get into a bidding war.  But without Tua out, I don't see serious takers for the #2 pick. Herbert to me is too much of a wild card to trade up for that high.  That's all fine with me I am perfectly content with taking Chase at #2.

 

 

Love it.  Less potential trade down compensation for the Giants.

[method man]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I don't think JHC is going to amount to anything. Sweat is going to be our best option at LDE, across from Chase Young, hopefully. If the SAM spot is used largely as a run stopper and extra rusher, I think McKinzy could be an option here, but I also really like Brailford as a developmental option. Brailford is the same size as Marcus Washington with slightly longer arms, and has a better 40 time and vertical leap than Marcus Washington, Ryan Kerrigan, Ryan Anderson or Cassanova McKinzey. He's a plus athlete at the spot and was a productive pass rusher in college. It's the kind of draft and stash move the Ravens would make. I'm not sure Brailford has the instincts for it, but I'd love to see him get a try there. Maybe he can be coached up. 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jordan-brailford?id=32194252-4143-9937-a42d-be30771b4671

 

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?f=Marcus&l=Washington&i=4631

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ryan-kerrigan?id=2495190

 

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ryan-anderson?id=2557853

 

Edit: Also, did anyone watch Blake Cashman enough this year to see how he looked? I thought we should have drafted him last year.

Man I miss Marcus Washington. Most underrated defender this team has had this century. Was so consistent and did his job well...also one of the few FAs to make a Pro Bowl after signing with this team. Cornelius Griffin and Shawn Springs were very underrated too

[Conn]

Springs was so fun to watch dominate in divisional matchups, despite his health being frustrating. The closest thing we've had to that ability to shut down prototypical WR1 types since Springs was that one hot season Breeland had, and even then he was always pretty handsy. Norman never really got to that level again here, the way we used him. And Dunbar hasn't really been tested imo the way those guys were bc offenses could choose to attack us in so many ways and be effective. But maybe I'm selling Dunbar short. 

[primetime441]

6 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Springs was so fun to watch dominate in divisional matchups, despite his health being frustrating. The closest thing we've had to that ability to shut down prototypical WR1 types since Springs was that one hot season Breeland had, and even then he was always pretty handsy. Norman never really got to that level again here, the way we used him. And Dunbar hasn't really been tested imo the way those guys were bc offenses could choose to attack us in so many ways and be effective. But maybe I'm selling Dunbar short. 

If you're going to go that far back, don't forget Champ Bailey.

[HTTRDynasty]

10 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

And Dunbar hasn't really been tested imo the way those guys were bc offenses could choose to attack us in so many ways and be effective. But maybe I'm selling Dunbar short. 

 

I agree Dunbar hasn't been consistently tested as a CB1.  I think he deserves the chance though.  Ranked as the #2 CB on PFF this season behind only Richard Sherman (interesting note: both are converted WR's).  I want Byron Jones in FA as CB2, but I think we have our CB1 if he can stay healthy.

 

PFF Rankings: Top 25 cornerbacks through Week 17

 

 

2. QUINTON DUNBAR, WASHINGTON REDSKINS

Don’t look now, but Quinton Dunbar has stolen the show from Josh Norman in our nation’s capital. He has excelled in off-coverage in both man-to-man and zone, and he finished the regular season with an 87.6 PFF overall grade that ranks second among the league's cornerbacks. 

 

The below play shows Dunbar’s great vision and anticipation against combination routes. While in a three-deep zone, Dunbar has enough depth to defend the vertical route into his zone, but he also maintains vision for the intermediate route developing underneath. He covers a lot of ground and ultimately gets to the point where he can essentially defend both receivers. 

 

 

Dunbar allowed a passer rating of just 56.9 on throws into his coverage in 2019, the sixth-lowest mark among his peers. He excelled in off-coverage, where he would often play the sticks, and allowed only 17 first-down receptions across his 52 total targets, which ties for the 10th-best rate in the NFL. Now in his fifthseason, Dunbar has proven to be incredibly valuable, as he allowed just two touchdown passes across 347 coverage snaps. He is the kind of cornerback Ron Rivera is sure to love in Washington.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I watched McKinney closely.  I don't agree that he hits heavy for his size or the box safety stuff.  The dude to me is a pure FS.   He's plenty rangy.  If anything he needs to bulk up to play like a box safety that this dude is suggesting he is now.  If somehow we get a 2nd rounder (which is looking doubtful) he'd intrigue me if he's still there. 

 

 

 

[NYSkins21]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think it indicates Tua might stay. If so the interesting part of it is I think the only off chance you get a haul for the #2 pick is if lets say SD and Miami both want Tua and decide to get into a bidding war.  But without Tua out, I don't see serious takers for the #2 pick. Herbert to me is too much of a wild card to trade up for that high.  That's all fine with me I am perfectly content with taking Chase at #2.

 

 

 

 

But I think it also benefits us because it increases the likelihood that Cinci takes Burrow @ #1. They won't be able to fall back on the chance that Tua would be there to have a few picks later.

[HTTRDynasty]

3 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

But I think it also benefits us because it increases the likelihood that Cinci takes Burrow @ #1. They won't be able to fall back on the chance that Tua would be there to have a few picks later.

 

OTOH, if they expect to be just as terrible of a team next year, they can draft Young this year and have the chance to draft either Tua or Lawrence in 2021.  Very risky, but would be incredible if it paid off.

[Anselmheifer]

57 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

OTOH, if they expect to be just as terrible of a team next year, they can draft Young this year and have the chance to draft either Tua or Lawrence in 2021.  Very risky, but would be incredible if it paid off.

 

Don't say things like that out loud please.