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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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Man... from a 2018 article:

 

ESPN's College GameDay aired a feature on Saturday that seemed ready to tell the story of Tagovailoa's family life in Hawaii and the road to Tuscaloosa. Instead, it made for a disturbing viewing experience as Tua's father, Galu, detailed how be molded Tua into a football star with a "Bible and the belt" philosophy.

 

Early in the story, Galu discussed how he forced Tua to throw lefty despite his son being right-hand dominant. The reason: Galu was a lefty.

 

Tua said his father's strict discipline applied to both school and sports. When Tom Rinaldi followed up for clarification on what he meant, the Alabama quarterback said the "belt was involved" when he threw an interception or failed to get a certain grade.

 

"Two things in a Tagovailoa is your faith and your discipline. It's simple," Gula said, laughing.

 

"He means the Bible and the belt. You gotta work, son. You gotta do better. The evaluation from dad is the most honest," his mother, Diane, added.

 

The feature also shed light on how Tua ended up at Alabama. Gula made the decision. Regardless of what Tua favored, he said his father had the final say.

 

The story understandably had viewers criticizing ESPN and the Gula.

 

When the segment concluded, ESPN's Desmond Howard made a joke about it and called Galu a, " Hawaiian Joe Jackson."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2018/12/01/alabama-tua-tagovailoa-discussed-espn-dad-beating-him-belt/38653613/

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

SIP, I agree with the scouts in your two recent posts who thought we were going to take Chase Young and then a TE. 


We always TALK about taking BPA, but then draft for need. We are going OT, WR, TE, or CB with our 3rd and probably our 4th and TE looks like both the direst need and the shallowest group. 

That being said, I wouldn't mind some combination of Trautman/Edwards in the 3rd/4th or Pittman/Albert O. Our 1st next year looks destined for OT or CB. Can't fix everything at once. 

 

I can go for either scenario you mentioned.  It was interesting that the scout thought there would be an early run on TEs.  By early I'd presume in the 2nd-3rd range.   I'd really prefer to get a TE who can do it all and on that front my favorites are Trautman and Asiasi.  I like Albert O and Kmet a lot as pass catchers and both to me are decent albeit inconsistent blockers but I think they both have the size to grow into that.  So for me its those 4 guys I'd really want.

 

I like Hopkins, Hunter & Harrison Bryant as H back types.  I think they all have potential as receivers but worry about them all as blockers.   I don't like Deguara as much as those three as a receiver but IMO he's a better blocker than them. 

 

If they skip the first run of TE's, I can see Rivera/Kyle Smith fall for Colby Parkinson.  Seems like a high character dude.  He's not IMO a great blocker but he's decent.  I've dubbed him before as sort of the poor man's Asiasi.  So if they are taking one in the late 4th or early 5th if there has been an early run on TE's, I'd think he might be a target or maybe Deguara.  I don't love either player but I am ok if that's where they go if its later in the draft. 

 

I liked watching Pickney but his combine was atrocious.  I don't think you can be that hot with 5.0 speed.  I like him as a blocker and he has decent hands.

 

As for the receivers, its hard for me to know what's smoke and what's real but judging by what am reading in the third there is a chance that one or two of these guys might fall to our pick in the third.

 

A. Shenault

B. Hamler

C.  Aiyuk

D. Reagor

E. Pittman

F. Mims

 

Seems like there is some momentum (again if the smoke has any value and it might not) that Pittman might go in the 2nd.  And some seem to suggest that the draft geek types are overrating Mims.  I got to rewatch now all 6 of them.  It's been a long time since I've watched them closely.  I don't love Shenault, Aiyuk and Hamler as much as the typical draft geek.  But in the third round am ok with any of the three for different reasons.  I just don't see them as first round-early 2nd round talents.  When I watched Mims, I was doing it in the context of seeing him as a 2nd tier type, not a first tier type.  And I liked him as one of my favs in the 2nd tier.  It doesn't shock me that some scouts don't see him as a first tier type.  As for Reagor I like his explosiveness but he has some flaws so I wouldn't take him super early.   

 

So I want to watch all these guys again without worrying about judging whether they are worthy as being first tier types but instead from the frame work of what if they dropped to the third.  I'll try to do that this week.  But yeah I think good chance we are taking a receiver and a TE in the 3rd-4th.  That's part of the reason why I spent so much time on those spots. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)

Tua’s father is a problem, man. Yikes.

 

RE: Tight end a dire need:

 

Is it? Carolina had Olsen, yes. But their tight ends were used as blocking guys. Take a look at the tight ends on roster. Most of them have a history of being decent blockers. 
 

Turner uses 2 and 3 TE sets regularly. And they’re mostly used for blocking purposes. I’m not sure tight end is a dire need. It’s a need as it pertains to getting a better receiving option, but I don’t see it as dire. Free safety, linebacker, LT, CB are all higher on my need list. 

Edited by KDawg

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17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That Tua article makes me want to stay really ****ing far away. Poor guy man.

 

Yeah, that's off the rails. That goes beyond being a strict parent and into straight up abuse territory. 

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12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Tua’s father is a problem, man. Yikes.

 

RE: Tight end a dire need:

 

Is it? Carolina had Olsen, yes. But their tight ends were used as blocking guys. Take a look at the tight ends on roster. Most of them have a history of being decent blockers. 
 

Turner uses 2 and 3 TE sets regularly. And they’re mostly used for blocking purposes. I’m not sure tight end is a dire need. It’s a need as it pertains to getting a better receiving option, but I don’t see it as dire. Free safety, linebacker, LT, CB are all higher on my need list. 

If they didn't think it was a need, they wouldn't have made a run at Hooper.

 

I'm fine rolling in with what we have and don't really even want to draft one.

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Just now, Koolblue13 said:

If they didn't think it was a need, they wouldn't have made a run at Hooper.

 

I'm fine rolling in with what we have and don't really even want to draft one.


I don’t agree. They made a run at Hooper because he was a significant upgrade. They also made a run at Cooper, who was also an upgrade.

 

There aren’t many tight ends in the draft that could be Hooper’s level, and if they are available at 66 is there another more highly rated player on their board available? I think the answer is yes. But the Skins are the only ones who know their board.

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2 minutes ago, KDawg said:


I don’t agree. They made a run at Hooper because he was a significant upgrade. They also made a run at Cooper, who was also an upgrade.

 

There aren’t many tight ends in the draft that could be Hooper’s level, and if they are available at 66 is there another more highly rated player on their board available? I think the answer is yes. But the Skins are the only ones who know their board.

The draft part we agree.

 

It was between us and another team for both FAs. We were aggressive at both of them and only those 2 players. They must be viewed as problematic. As holes.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The draft part we agree.

 

It was between us and another team for both FAs. We were aggressive at both of them and only those 2 players. They must be viewed as problematic. As holes.


Sure, tight end is an issue. But a receiving tight end is NOT as important as a free safety, CB, LB, LT in Turner’s offense. Again, Carolina has Olsen. Look at the other tight ends on their roster from last year. You can get that production from McKissick, Sims, Harmon as a HB, a rookie receiver, etc.

 

I just don’t think they chase tight end as a dire need that HAS to be drafted. I think they take a guy if he’s a in t the top of their board.

 

Receiving tight end is a hole, but it’s not a necessity. Turner’s offense needs guys who can block. They went hard after Hooper because he can do both and would make their lives easier, in my opinion.

Edited by KDawg
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Posted (edited)

I would bet money they will draft a TE and while I am a BPA guy, I think a TE could easily fit that in the 3rd to 6th rounds depending on who is available.

 

They swung and missed at Olsen. They considered Hooper. Both are OK blockers but more of a pass catcher type.  Ian Thomas can catch, too. Norv always seemed to want a TE who is a passing weapon.

 

Standig seems pretty plugged in. He has been talking up them shooting for a TE. Both scouts in the article I posted picked a TE as their choice for the Redskins in the third.

 

I think a TE is coming. And I am more than cool with it. I got about 10 TEs I like over anybody we got now. And about 6 that are in my view slam dunk better than any in house TE.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I’m with you that I think we do it. 
 

I just don’t know if doing it is the best plan if other options are on the table. 
 

But we’re sure as **** gonna do it.

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34 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m with you that I think we do it. 
 

I just don’t know if doing it is the best plan if other options are on the table. 
 

But we’re sure as **** gonna do it.

 

Not sure how I feel about it though. On one hand I realize it's a glaring need, but on the other hand I really wish it were a need in a really good TE class as opposed to such a mediocre one like we have this year. 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Not sure how I feel about it though. On one hand I realize it's a glaring need, but on the other hand I really wish it were a need in a really good TE class as opposed to such a mediocre one like we have this year. 

I would be ok with one of 1) Kmet or Trautman in the 3rd (decent chance they’re gone by then) 2) using our 5th on Asiasi or Hopkins, or 3) Deguara, Sullivan, Breeland, Woerner etc. in the 7th.  
 

Point being, outside of Kmet/Trautman, I’d avoid TE with our first 3 picks.  

Edited by skinny21
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14 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I would be ok with one of 1) Kmet or Trautman in the 3rd (decent chance they’re gone by then) 2) using our 5th on Asiasi or Hopkins, or 3) Deguara, Sullivan, Breeland, Woerner etc. in the 7th.  
 

Point being, outside of Kmet/Trautman, I’d avoid TE with our first 3 picks.  

 

Kmet, I agree. But I could definitely see Trautman lasting until the 3rd. He looked great at the Senior Bowl but that doesn't change the fact that he played for a small school and his route running and blocking will need some time to be refined at the NFL level. I think plenty of teams will be interested but I also think most of them will pass on him in the 1st and 2nd in favor of guys who are more likely to be pro-ready. 

 

I certainly could be wrong though. 

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3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Man... from a 2018 article:

 

His dad is a lunatic.  There is no way that kid is well socialized, and the dad sounds like he'll be a nightmare for his son's NFL team.  If fans were put off by RGIII's dad, Tua's is a whole other level of controlling.  But cynical as it is to acknowledge, being heavily seasoned as the victim of a cult-mentality might actually serve Tua well in an NFL career.

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We need to be picking BPA at every draft choice.  The only position group on this team that is flush with a level of talent that other teams would envy is interior DL.  There might not even be a season and no one is expecting a Superbowl Run.  We should be picking BPA everywhere except QB and DT in order to give ourselves the best chance at actually finding solutions at any of the other positions.  A TE could be BPA after a trade down or in the fourth or fifth round, but there is no way one will be the BPA at 66.  I'll be pissed if we reach for one.

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While I get the need at TE and WR, I don't remotely understand the idea of targeting a specific position in a specific round a month out from the draft. It starts with the fact that no one has any idea which players will be available when the Redskin pick. It's reinforced by the idea that many positions, particularly TE, are notorious for slow learning curves. And then its complicated by the fact that 3rd rounders are hardly sure fire starters. Many never pan out. The idea that the team has zeroed in on a specific player this far out make no sense to me.

 

As a example, look at TEs front he 2017 draft. They've had three years to make their mark. Three went in the first round in 2017 - OJ Howard, Evan Engram, and David Njoku. All have shown flashes of skill and potential, but Cleveland just demoted Njoku with Hooper, Howard's been more potential than production, and Engram hasn't really stayed healthy since a fairly decent rookie year. After that, two TEs went in the second round, Gerald Everett (44th overall) and Adam Shaheen (45th). Everett has done nothing outside a few games late last year. Shaheen has been constantly injured. One TE went in the third - Jonnu Smith. He's been an okay back-up. Basically none of these guys have really done that much to get excited about. Of course, George Kittle went in the 5th round of that draft. So you never really know. But the idea that any 3rd rounder ends up as as the "solution" is iffy. So the team should target the guy they think is at least best overall, be it TE or more likely a different position.

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On 4/1/2020 at 1:52 PM, volsmet said:

A WR some like is a guy named Lucky Jackson, I haven’t seen much of him myself. Two others are from Ark St, Merritt & Bayless. 

 

 

 

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With a name like Derek Mountain at TE, you can't go wrong,  😀

 

the only major TE name I haven't watched yet is Mitchell Wilcox, got to do that this week, 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

We need to be picking BPA at every draft choice.  The only position group on this team that is flush with a level of talent that other teams would envy is interior DL.  There might not even be a season and no one is expecting a Superbowl Run.  We should be picking BPA everywhere except QB and DT in order to give ourselves the best chance at actually finding solutions at any of the other positions.  A TE could be BPA after a trade down or in the fourth or fifth round, but there is no way one will be the BPA at 66.  I'll be pissed if we reach for one.

 

I agree about BPA.  As for 66, I don't think it would be a wild reach though that Trautman or Kmet would be best player available at 66 or close enough.   I see both especially Kmet often in the 2nd round in mocks.  Both I think will be really good players.  But impossible to know who is BPA naturally until the draft unfolds.  If I had to guess right now, I'd say it's a surprise WR who falls or CB.  I'd also guess they either take that WR or CB or trade down and hope that Asiasi is still there in the early 4th.  IMO there are 4 really good TE's in this draft.  And I don't mean good relatively speaking, I mean they'd be good in any draft.  After those 4 you got IMO about 4 decent H-back types but only one is a sure blocker.    

 

I don't make the point as much as @volsmet does but I agree with him about the value of O line trumping most other positions in building a team especially when your current O line has holes like we do.  So judging by most of the third round mocks I've seen, I'd go Isaiah Wilson.   I'd wonder if they would though.  I'd also consider Robert Hunt if he's there to fix LG.  So everything being equal, I'd go O line depending on who is there. 

 

Having said that, this team including Kyle seem to marry BPA with need somewhat and Doug has let that cat out of the bag from time to time in his interviews years back, ditto Kyle.  Kyle in an interview described that they considered taking Harmon as early as the 4th but they needed other spots, talked about talking Holcomb in the 5th in part because they needed a MLB and were surprised that Harmon was still there in the 6th so at that point he couldn't resist.

 

I doubt Kyle takes let say a player he rates a 85 at a position of need over a 92 let's say.  But he gave the impression that if he needs a player at a spot who rates an 84, he will take that guy over a lesser need at 86.  Though he and Doug openly touted they go BPA but still when they start getting specific it sounds like a marriage of BPA and need where they aren't strict BPA guys.  I recall Doug flat out leaking to beat guys in 2018 they wanted to take DT and RB early, and that's exactly what they ended up doing.  I recall it came out if they didn't go with Guice in the 2nd they had other RBs in mind.

 

So yeah I am sort of expecting a repeat of that this year because like those drafts, I think there is a good shot need-BPA sort of flow. And they have again leaked their intentions at least a little that they want to give Haskins weapons.  That mission didn't flow in FA albeit they tried.  So its not hard to piece together that guys like Standig are likely right in that they will go heavy on offense in this draft.   IMO we are going to get for sure: WR, TE, CB, OT in some permutation.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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10 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m with you that I think we do it. 
 

I just don’t know if doing it is the best plan if other options are on the table. 
 

But we’re sure as **** gonna do it.

Why are we going to do it, if receiving TE is not viewed as a need, because we're in agreement that there will be better players available? 

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Why are we going to do it, if receiving TE is not viewed as a need, because we're in agreement that there will be better players available? 

 

Because I don't want them to/think we need to. That's why. To spite me. :ols:

 

I think the pick at 66, with no trade down, likely has to be a BPA and that guy could be at LB/LT/WR/CB/FS. I don't see it being a tight end unless there are significant runs on the other positions OR they like players at those other positions that they expect to be around in the 4th and risk it. That's the one scenario I would be good with.

 

It's not that I don't want a good receiving option TE. They are a good option to have. But this team needs to build and TEs typically take some time to come together. Our OL is one of our weaker position groups all in all. Linebackers are a big question mark. Corners could be. FS is still a significant hole... And I think all of those positions could have players that are better overall players than tight ends at 66. But, we'll see how it plays. 

Edited by KDawg
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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So yeah I am sort of expecting a repeat of that this year because like those drafts, I think there is a good shot need-BPA sort of flow. And they have again leaked their intentions at least a little that they want to give Haskins weapons.  That mission didn't flow in FA albeit they tried.  So its not hard to piece together that guys like Standig are likely right in that they will go heavy on offense in this draft.   IMO we are going to get for sure: WR, TE, CB, OT in some permutation.

 

I think it will be some order of those positions in three to seven too, but I hope it's not TE in the third because I don't think there is any value to be had there.  I honestly don't think any of this year's crop of TEs are day two-worthy.  Kmet being the top guy in the class is an indictment of the position group this year.  He's the kind of day three project who should have stayed in school, but seems to have declared early to try and take advantage of the weakness of the class.  Trautman is the other guy I see steadily being projected into the third and I'm not a big fan of him.  The red zone domination is the best thing about his game, but so much of that feels like he was just beating up on small players who weren't very aggressive.  IMO he's a low upside try-hard who doesn't have any explosion in his game and doesn't seem to have a great feel as a route runner or blocker.  I think he's just going to be a decent, unremarkable NFL player who will only flash as a red zone jump ball winner.  I don't think he comes close to the level of quality and upside that the day two and early day three DBs, RBs, and WRs have, and I think there will be numerous OLs who are better than him available throughout the third.

 

The only TE I found myself really liking from a value perspective is Harrison Bryant in the late fourth or early fifth.  His film is a little meh and he needs to build up his body for the NFL, but I thought he was the best TE in the class when I watched them.  TDN has him at 135, and that feels like a good bargain for him.  I've been getting him with our fifth rounder in mocks, and I'd be happy with that.

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