When Can We Get Out of the Alex Smith Contract???

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

22 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Maybe it just comes down to my philosophical belief in being a fan. I simply don't understand how somebody like yourself gets any satisfaction from this team if you can't shut up when we're 5-2 instead of crying about just the QB of the team. And then waits to pounce when they lose again with this "see! told you Alex is crappy!" Whatever, this is a battle not worth fighting. Cheers and hail to the Redskins.

 

Even I said just a little bit ago that I fear the OL injuries may be too much to overcome. But that's not really what I'm at all getting at. And this board was indeed melting after Indy and NO.

 

 

Because people are tired of the same ole same ole around here.  It wears people down and not everyone reacts the same, which is 100% fine.  If everyone shared the same thoughts, opinions and reacted the same way to every situation it would be one boring world to live in.

 

People can be happy but not optimistic, especially in regards to this teams performance.  I got called out in the next day after the game thread about being so negative every week, even after a win.  I'm fine with that, because I know how happy and excited I am/was, know how much I was cheering/screaming at the TV during the game, etc.  Nobody on here can see my reactions, hear my words, etc. during the game so they have no way of knowing how much I'm enjoying the game, etc.  

 

I also know that I have lowered my expectations of this team after 26 years of piss poor seasons, FO, and let downs after great starts to the first half of seasons.  Do you think the coaches get all giddy after a win and just sit back and not provide feedback to players on what they did wrong?  Not jump their **** and yell, etc.  If they do, that's not the type of coaches I want coaching my team.  Ugly, sloppy wins are W's sure, but it's their job to give tough love and point out mistakes, etc. so they play better the next week.

 

So some of us fans pointing out mistakes, etc. doesn't mean we don't enjoy the win or love our team, it's just another way of showing our passion, even though its pointing out negatives.  Doesn't mean we care more or less than those fans that don't point out mistakes either.  I've always hated the "this makes you better fan" argument because it's stupid.  People express themselves differently, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

19 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Cool. Yes, they were.. and yes, you should be fearful that they can't overcome this. May something or someone bless us all for what lies ahead. 

 

It would seem that way, but if our D can still step up with a strong performance in 2 out of every 3 games, we're going to have a shot to win 4-5 more games this year. Will we win those games? Who knows...but we've seen teams win when their defense can keep them close on the scoreboard. 

 

Jacksonville had no business doing what they did just last year...

[Sandy Monk]

19 minutes ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

So some of us fans pointing out mistakes, etc. doesn't mean we don't enjoy the win or love our team,

 

Liked your overall sentiments. You said it just right, imho. Nice job. 

 

"some"

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

I don't think I was making an effort to fight your point. My point was that, even "with some great OL", AP was still working harder than he should have had to, just tom get anything, on many plays. Now, w/o that same "great OL", the run game is probably about nonexistent.

 

Not so sure Peterson is shut down without an O line.  Maybe. I get the logic.  Will see. 

 

32 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

 

Nope. I am stopping there. I'm not interested in the whole QB comparison that is irrelevant since the 2018 offseason. One was gone anyway.

 

If you are going to make the point that its irrelevant.  Don't get why you get upset when people respond back that its relevant especially when they explain why.  If you disagree, cool.  But its not case closed just because you say so.  If you don't want a conversation on it -- best thing to do is not engage versus engaging and making a strong point on said topic while saying you don't want to engage.   

 

32 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

 

and there we go again. What are you doing, man? I'm not going to bite on this anymore. Keep it about the team and not me or you personally.

 

 

I think which you keep missing on this point is this.  It has ZERO about you personally.  It's all about context.  And if you didn't experience that context --- how can you shoot down the relevance of the context?   That just seems weird to me.   It's not a shot that you weren't a Redskins fan through the whole Kirk thing -- its a fact. 

 

And that has nothing to do with taking a jab that you are a new Redskins fan but simply saying how can you explain the relevance of context when you weren't part of that context.  It would be like me preaching to you about Andy Reid with some narrative about the Chiefs that you experienced but I didn't.  And I explained to you before this isn't apples to apples to the SF trade where KC was getting rid of a bum of a QB where the feeling from most is good riddance what's next.   There are carry over feelings here from one QB to another.  It's different.

 

The best analogy I can think of is this.  It's like taking me back to college, a friend dates someone and it was a wild ride, and i know the whole history of it, went through it, and know how it led to my friend's current relationship and feelings about it.  You don't go through any of it.  You meet the same dude recently.  And you are explaining to me how my point about my friend's experience has no relevance because every relationship is totally different and new.  And you just don't buy that what he went through colors squat.  And you even preach to me about what's relevant or not.   It's not obviously as personal as that when it comes to the NFL but the analogy I think brings the point home so.  

 

[Sandy Monk]

It's been a positive day with lots of positive exchanges, @Skinsinparadise. As a person that has downed several beers, I will happily leave this alone with a simple HTTR.

 

In other words, I'm just not going to bite... and I hope I never do. I like it here from time to time, and will now carefully walk the lines as carefully as I can. 

[redskins4ever28]

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Maybe it just comes down to my philosophical belief in being a fan. I simply don't understand how somebody like yourself gets any satisfaction from this team if you can't shut up when we're 5-2 instead of crying about just the QB of the team. And then waits to pounce when they lose again with this "see! told you Alex is crappy!" Whatever, this is a battle not worth fighting. Cheers and hail to the Redskins. 

 

 

I used to be like that.  The older I got the more times this team has burned me and just killed any type of dream I had for it.  I feel I no longer need to "prove my fandom/loyalty."  They need to prove to me that they are worthy of it.  I got a friggin redskin tattoo on my arm, you don't think I have the right to be salty after 30 years of this sad a** crap?  Sorry, I will not be "OH YAY WE ARE 5-2/5-3" anymore.  They've had more the enough time.  I want results, especially when they gave the only QB that looked good for us in 30 years away.

[ThomasRoane]

On 11/4/2018 at 7:01 PM, bobandweave said:

Formula is simple. Run the ball effectively (they didn’t do that today), play good against the opposing RB (didn’t do that today either), and limit turnovers. There is a historic over 80% chance a team wins in this league when they win the turnover battle (they tied today).

 

Turnovers as a stat when measuring QB's are not a simple apples to apples comparison.  Matt Ryan took chances.  He had one turn over (really his receivers fault) yet he also threw for 350 yards and 4 TD's.  And he put on the brakes eating clock towards the end.  Hell, Alex could get 0 turn overs every game if he doesn't throw the ball beyond ten yards.  If you don't get chunk plays then you have a hard time winning today's NFL. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:To talk about how great the rest of the team has been as a way to diminish Alex, and then the very next week talk about the FO not giving us the resources we need to succeed. Do you not see how those two things are directly contradictory? Sustainable or not, you can't have it both ways.

 

Key words: has been

 

The rest of the team has been playing really well via the running game and defense in the majority of games.  However many folks have said that the way we were winning was not sustainable for a variety of reasons. 

 

A: The QB play.  Just not good enough.  The very reason he was made available to us.  It’s 2018, not 1985.  The FO is responsible for the acquisition of said player.  So even if they have done some other things right, they don’t get a pass for the biggest issue that faces every NFL team in this day and age.

 

B: The defense is good and much better than in years past.  But it’s not enough to always carry the dead weight of the offense or fair to expect them to get stop after stop and reward the sputtering offense with turnovers regularly.

 

C : Injuries. They happen, we know that all too well.  Almost every bit of optimism about the parts responsible for the little bit of offensive success we’ve had are either old (AP) or have shown the tendency to be injury prone (Oline).   That’s not even talking about the defense, which we all saw what happens when some fat boys go down.  We may not have been talking about the depth to this point because we haven’t needed to.  But right now it’s smacking us right in the face.

 

So when you see people “melting down” or whatever you want to call it, it’s with good reason because much of it was to be expected in one way or another. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Sandy Monk said:

It's been a positive day with lots of positive exchanges, @Skinsinparadise. As a person that has downed several beers, I will happily leave this alone with a simple HTTR.

 

In other words, I'm just not going to bite... and I hope I never do. I like it here from time to time, and will now carefully walk the lines as carefully as I can. 

 

This early in the day? Wish I could have a few beers now.  ?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This early in the day? Wish I could have a few beers now.  ?

Right.

 

I’m hoping Sandy is in another country a few time zones ahead of us.

[joeken24]

So I'm going to play a little bit of connect the dots.....

 

Dot 1 - The average pass release time for an NFL QB is around 2.5 seconds. Anytime after that and you're probably looking at a busted play.

Dot 2 - WR need to be into their routes and separating by the time the ball is released. It would also be nice to have a RB that can run those medium to deep routes (like he had with Hunt). That would open up this offense big time.

Dot 3 - Defenses are much quicker off the ball, making it difficult for big linemen to maintain the pocket.

Dot 4 - The longer an O-line pass blocks the more susceptible they are to injury.

 

Connecting Dot 1 - Alex's average release time is 2.32 seconds. That's what he's used to. That's what made him successful in KC. So far, the passing scheme includes a lot of slow developing routes (much like its always been with Gruden). Rarely do we see slants or the coveted pick plays with our WRs. We saw two quick seam routes to Doctson a couple weeks ago.

 

Connecting Dot 1 to 2 - You need skilled WRs, not size speed receivers (hopefully, you can get a dog like a Julio Jones) to get out and create separation quickly. The current WRs aren't quick or talented enough to get separation off the ball. The Skins need a technician that can get off the press, run the slant or seam route and be strong and crafty enough to break a tackle for some YAK.

 

Connecting Dots 1 & 2 to Dots 3 & 4 - Obviously, the faster you get rid of the ball in the pass game, the less you have to worry about those quicker D-linemen and the less stress you place on your lineman, thus less injuries (possibly). I'm not sure if the Redskins line is getting injured more on pass plays than running, so I can't make that case. But I would bet linemen on average get injured on passing plays more oft than not.

 

Its Gruden's job to connect these Dots and fix them, right? And another thing....I find it hard to believe a QB does well on one team and poorly on another without a little help from the coordinator.

 

So I'll end by saying this.....its only been 8 games between these two (Alex and Jay). Both have been in this game for a while all be it in different ways (obviously). So I'll try to be patient. But Gruden has to adjust. There is no two ways about it. IMO, its better for the Alex to be comfortable than anything else.

Thank goodness AP adjusted, but don't you find it peculiar that a HOF running back has to adjust?

 

The word on Gruden:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2014/03/28/opposing-coaches-describe-a-jay-gruden-offense/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0cac43dc0880

 

The word on Alex:

 

[Veryoldschool]

2 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Turnovers as a stat when measuring QB's are not a simple apples to apples comparison.  Matt Ryan took chances.  He had one turn over (really his receivers fault) yet he also threw for 350 yards and 4 TD's.  And he put on the brakes eating clock towards the end.  Hell, Alex could get 0 turn overs every game if he doesn't throw the ball beyond ten yards.  If you don't get chunk plays then you have a hard time winning today's NFL. 

 

this

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, joeken24 said:

 

Connecting Dot 1 to 2 - You need skilled WRs, not size speed receivers (hopefully, you can get a dog like a Julio Jones) to get out and create separation quickly. The current WRs aren't quick or talented enough to get separation off the ball. The Skins need a technician that can get off the press, run the slant or seam route and be strong and crafty enough to break a tackle for some YAK.

 

 

They are getting separation.  But you might have something with create separation quickly or in another words guys that are adept to play off of short 3 step throws -- screens, hitches, shallow crosses.  Golden Tate ironically would be a guy like that.  Oh well. 

 

I've been re-watching the games on coaches tape.  I've done this once before and it wasn't greeted warmly by some.  But I'll be brave and take the medicine from them if they decide to give me a hard time for showing some of this. 

 

Heck I liked Kirk but I was willing to say he had a bad game when he did. As for Alex, IMO, he has had a bad season versus just some bad games.  Yes his receivers aren't great.  But as Cooley who was a professional receiver (albeit) TE who knows Jay's scheme and knows how to read film as a professional -- likes to say, Alex's receivers aren't great, they are C level guys.  However, they are getting open and Alex is missing too many passes.  He's not an accurate QB for whatever reason right now.  

 

All those plays before are misses.  Guys have enough separation.  And if you look at these plays typically multiple guys are getting open with potential for big plays -- if you look at still #2, that's potentially a TD of Alex throws to Maurice.  And I am not cherry picking there are more plays like this.  And I think that one has been one of Alex's better games.  I thought on the aggregate he was OK in this one.  Not good.  No bad.  So so.   And that was against one of the worst pass defenses in the league who was missing a starting corner.

 

Do I think better weapons will help him?  Sure.  Does he need more YAC from his receivers, yep.   do I think this is the best we can get out of him -- nope.  Do I think more playing time will help?  Yes.  So I agree with a lot of the points that people advocate on his behalf.  Where I disagree with some is about his play thus far.  IMO if he keeps playing like this, they should eat his 2019 contract and move on.  I don't think you are going far with a QB who is both conservative and inaccurate.  So while I remains optimistic he improves.  I am with the naysayers about how he's played thus far.   So hopefully, better play is coming.  

 

[joeken24]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They are getting separation.  But you might have something with create separation quickly or in another words guys that are adept to play off of short 3 step throws -- screens, hitches, shallow crosses.  Golden Tate ironically would be a guy like that.  Oh well. 

 

I've been re-watching the games on coaches tape.  I've done this once before and it wasn't greeted warmly by some.  But I'll be brave and take the medicine from them if they decide to give me a hard time for showing some of this. 

 

Heck I liked Kirk but I was willing to say he had a bad game when he did. As for Alex, IMO, he has had a bad season versus just some bad games.  Yes his receivers aren't great.  But as Cooley who was a professional receiver (albeit) TE who knows Jay's scheme and knows how to read film as a professional -- likes to say, Alex's receivers aren't great, they are C level guys.  However, they are getting open and Alex is missing too many passes.  He's not an accurate QB for whatever reason right now.

 

All those plays before are misses.  Guys have enough separation.  And if you look at these plays typically multiple guys are getting open with potential for big plays -- if you look at still #2, that's potentially a TD of Alex throws to Maurice.  And I am not cherry picking there are more plays like this.  And I think that one has been one of Alex's better games.  I thought on the aggregate he was OK in this one.  Not good.  No bad.  So so.   And that was against one of the worst pass defenses in the league who was missing a starting corner.

 

Do I think better weapons will help him?  Sure.  Does he need more YAC from his receivers, yep.   do I think this is the best we can get out of him -- nope.  Do I think more playing time will help?  Yes.  So I agree with a lot of the points that people advocate on his behalf.  Where I disagree with some is about his play thus far.  IMO if he keeps playing like this, they should eat his 2019 contract and move on.  I don't think you are going far with a QB who is both conservative and inaccurate.  So while I remains optimistic he improves.  I am with the naysayers about how he's played thus far.   So hopefully, better play is coming.  I am with the optimists on that -- there is logic to a QB improving the longer they play with the same receivers and system.  But IMO he has to fix his inaccuracies for this to work out.

 

 

Ok. So you've proven that guys are getting open. I suppose the question is when they are getting open and whether the concept of the play allows Alex to be looking that way. I'm sure its a bit more complex than that (both Alex and Jay have alluded to that), so I won't make any assumptions on it. But its clear Alex is less comfortable with this offense than he was in KC, thus the happy feet and the inaccuracy as a result. It looks like Alex is thinking about the concept of the play while having a different defensive look than what the game plan dictated. In other words, he's confused with 2.5 seconds to figure it out, a injured O-line and no play maker to speak of to bail him out. In the words of the old ball coach, "its not very good".

 

BTW, you are absolutely right about Golden Tate. I was also screaming for them to pick up Albert Wilson in FA before the season. But alas, Gruden says he's good with the receivers he has. That my friend is ****ing bull****. That's damn near like trading away Khalil Mack. Oh wrong brother....but you see a trend.

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

Ok. So you've proven that guys are getting open. I suppose the question is when they are getting open and whether the concept of the play allows Alex to be looking that way. I'm sure its a bit more complex than that (both Alex and Jay have alluded to that), so I won't make any assumptions on it. But its clear Alex is less comfortable with this offense than he was in KC, thus the happy feet and the inaccuracy as a result. It looks like Alex is thinking about the concept of the play while having a different defensive look than what the game plan dictated. In other words, he's confused with 2.5 seconds to figure it out, a injured O-line and no play maker to speak of to bail him out. In the words of the old ball coach, "its not very good".

 

Or as Baldinger likes to say: "That's going to be a problem. That's going to be a big problem."

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

Ok. So you've proven that guys are getting open. I suppose the question is when they are getting open and whether the concept of the play allows Alex to be looking that way. I'm sure its a bit more complex than that (both Alex and Jay have alluded to that), so I won't make any assumptions on it. But its clear Alex is less comfortable with this offense than he was in KC, thus the happy feet and the inaccuracy as a result. It looks like Alex is thinking about the concept of the play while having a different defensive look than what the game plan dictated. In other words, he's confused with 2.5 seconds to figure it out, a injured O-line and no play maker to speak of to bail him out. In the words of the old ball coach, "its not very good".

 

If you slowly watch the plays which I am doing.  I actually give him a break on a certain type a play which I see some which is Alex getting rid of the ball really fast before receivers make their breaks (with the TV tape you could see some of the more blatant versions of it like the throw to Peterson's back before he broke) -- and in those cases guys aren't always open because he's getting rid of the ball too fast (or so it seems) and if he waits just a tick more a receiver is often open for a big play. 

 

I give him a pass for that -- not knowing who is responsible, Alex getting rid of the ball like a hot potato when perhaps he shouldn't or the receivers for not breaking fast enough.   But it plays to your point that if he's looking to get rid of the ball quick and short then they can use a guy who thrives that way.  A guy again like Golden Tate.

 

The plays I am focusing on in all my clips, not just these, are plays when he gets sacked or have incompletes.  In those situations is it the receiver not getting open, bad protection, or Alex is just missing the receivers or not seeing them.  On a lot of those plays (not all of them), Alex is usually doing one of the these things:  A. starring at the receiver and oddly not throwing to him.  B. just missing the throw, often pretty easy throws.  C. Not seeing guys open for big plays.  I could see some of it when I was at the Arizona game, in that one, guys where getting open deeper down field but Alex didn't throw to them for the most part.  

 

I can understand that everything being equal he'd rather not throw deep because that's his style.  But IMO he's missing too many throws that don't look that difficult.  Cooley says that's been the #1 problem, accuracy, and a surprising one.    And the beat guys who have talked about private behind the scenes frustration -- its centered on big plays being left on the field and Alex missing throws.

 

I think of all things, Alex needs to fix whatever is giving him problems with accuracy.   IMO a conservative QB who isn't accurate isn't going to last long as a starter.  Not saying that will be the case here.  I am just saying IMO he has to improve to justify being a starter.  Not saying he can't.  But no way am I sold on his performance thus far. 

[joeken24]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you slowly watch the plays which I am doing.  I actually give him a break on a certain type a play which I see some which is Alex getting rid of the ball really fast before receivers make their breaks (with the TV tape you could see some of the more blatant versions of it like the throw to Peterson's back before he broke) -- and in those cases guys aren't always open because he's getting rid of the ball too fast (or so it seems) and if he waits just a tick more a receiver is often open for a big play. 

 

I give him a pass for that -- not knowing who is responsible, Alex getting rid of the ball like a hot potato when perhaps he shouldn't or the receivers for not breaking fast enough.   But it plays to your point that if he's looking to get rid of the ball quick and short then they can use a guy who thrives that way.  A guy again like Golden Tate.

 

The plays I am focusing on in all my clips, not just these, are plays when he gets sacked or have incompletes.  In those situations is it the receiver not getting open, bad protection, or Alex is just missing the receivers or not seeing them.  On a lot of those plays (not all of them), Alex is usually doing one of the these things:  A. starring at the receiver and oddly not throwing to him.  B. just missing the throw, often pretty easy throws.  C. Not seeing guys open for big plays.  I could see some of it when I was at the Arizona game, in that one, guys where getting open deeper down field but Alex didn't throw to them for the most part.  

 

I can understand that everything being equal he'd rather not throw deep because that's his style.  But IMO he's missing too many throws that don't look that difficult.  Cooley says that's been the #1 problem, accuracy, and a surprising one.    And the beat guys who have talked about private behind the scenes frustration -- its centered on big plays being left on the field and Alex missing throws.

 

I think of all things, Alex needs to fix whatever is giving him problems with accuracy.   IMO a conservative QB who isn't accurate isn't going to last long as a starter.  Not saying that will be the case here.  I am just saying IMO he has to improve to justify being a starter.  Not saying he can't.  But no way am I sold on his performance thus far. 

I am definitely not sold on his performance. I also believe what you're saying is evident. But I also believe Alex's confidence is compromised due to his inability to get comfortable with this offensive scheme. I agree Alex has to hit open receivers when he sees them. None of this sailing the ball ****.

 

But I think the problem goes deeper than just Alex. Gruden's offense is supposed to be predicated (much like Andy Reid's) on quick passes. That's not what I've seen at all. And the little I have seen is poorly executed. That leads me to believe that execution is not emphasized or enforced enough in practice.

 

Another problem IMO: Gruden prefers to have a lot of plays, instead of perfecting a few. I don't think 75 different (poorly executed, btw) plays is necessary. Variations of a few perfectly executed plays is better to me. You run deceptive formations and you run the **** out of motion to create match up problems for the defense. I rarely see much pre-snap movement other than that phantom WR that runs all the way behind the offense. I'm always like "what the **** is that ****?" That **** ain't foolin' nobody unless its Tyreek.

 

Another problem: We all know, Gruden is really predictable on 1st down. Its also fair to say, 2nd down is predictable based on what happens on 1st. If the first down run doesn't work (god forbid there's a holding penalty), the defense and everybody else on the planet knows what comes next - the underneath pass, right? So a defense calls their zone coverage, maybe sprinkle in a blitz or at least show it. They might even run a nice little twist stunt up front (like the Colts and the Falcons did) and wa la!! You've got a confused QB, slow WRs that don't adjust or get into routes quick enough to get open and a O-line that can't pick up the stunt. How do you combat that and how does a QB gain confidence? Oh and lets not talk about the drops.

 

I suggest Gruden figure out how to isolate Reed. Is that happening? Not as often as it should. I don't believe Gruden understands the concept of the hot hand. Nobody in the league can cover Reed. So why on earth would you bother trying to "spread the ****ing ball around?" KISS!!! There shouldn't ever be a third and short that causes the QB to read the defense. Isolate Reed however way you can, and pass the ball to him. Too ****in' easy!!! It really is. Even in zone if you perfect the execution in practice.

 

But we all know what happens in practice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

On 11/4/2018 at 4:14 PM, Sandy Monk said:

Just cut him already. Would be a fun thing to see, and definitely less tears. 

Safe statement. Can I ask how many hes won for us?

[Sandy Monk]

3 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Safe statement. Can I ask how many hes won for us?

 

I don't understand the context to grasp your question here. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

I don't understand the context to grasp your question here. 

Sorry, I didnt mean to quote you 

[Skinsinparadise]

52 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

I am definitely not sold on his performance. I also believe what you're saying is evident. But I also believe Alex's confidence is compromised due to his inability to get comfortable with this offensive scheme.

 

 

 

Don't doubt that he needs more time to get comfortable.   He's a bit of a victim of the high expectations from Jay and the FO in the off season.  The idea of how smart he is, and the play book is already more expansive than before.  I said so in the off season.

 

52 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

I agree Alex has to hit open receivers when he sees them. None of this sailing the ball ****.

 

 

I'd give him a much bigger break if I saw accuracy.  But I always thought he was an accurate QB.  So when I say I think he will improve, its mostly about this point.  If its just conservative play, it would be one thing.  Just chemistry with receivers, I'd get that too.  But the bad misses to open receivers -- that's my issue because that's typically not about the system or chemistry -- those are just some bad throws. 

 

52 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

I

But I think the problem goes deeper than just Alex. Gruden's offense is supposed to be predicated (much like Andy Reid's) on quick passes. That's not what I've seen at all. And the little I have seen is poorly executed. That leads me to believe that execution is not emphasized or enforced enough in practice.

 

 

 

I haven't really seen this.  In the Arizona game it was a ridiculous number of short passes.  I was at that game so I paid more attention on that front.   Alex YPA numbers would indicate a mega number of short passes -- ranked 28th in the NFL on that front.  I just picked a game randomly and re-watched the first half offense against the Giants.  Every play i watched aside from two were 3 step drops or shorter than that. 

 

I see a theme cooking in your post that this is on Jay to some degree.  I'd agree if receivers weren't getting open.  Jay's reputation is being a great play designer who knows how to get receivers open.  If you slow down the coaches tape you can see they are actually getting these C level receivers open.  Alex seems the weaker link IMO in the operation at the moment versus the receivers as to the passing game.

 

Having said that, he did play better against Atlanta.  They are about to face another atrocious pass defense so maybe that's the recipe to get things right.  I agree with your point about confidence.  I think he and the passing game needs a big game hopefully to break out of the funk. If this O line can protect him, its the perfect storm to break out.  The Tampa defense is actually setting a record for most points allowed.  

 

If this is about defending Alex.  I am not blaming Jay but blaming the FO.  He could use a WR who can give you YAC.   His receivers can get open and have gotten open.  But they don't have any explosive players in the passing game.  And a guy who can take a hitch or whatever and take it to the house.  The Falcons put a clinic on in YAC last Sunday.  We have nobody that produces YAC.  That's why I keep hammering we need Thompson back badly. 

 

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

6 hours ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Because people are tired of the same ole same ole around here. 

This is why I will never see eye to eye with you and others who share that sentiment.

 

I don't see same ole same ole. At all. Are we there yet? No, of course not. But it seems like you and many others are so fed up with how many years it took us to even get to this point that you are losing sight of how drastically different it is around here. And then after every loss go "SEE HERE WE GO AGAIN I TOLD YOU!"

 

We went decades without a Daron Payne caliber defensive lineman that was drafted and developed on this team. Or a Jonathan Allen. Or a Matt Ioanidis for that matter. Now we have all three of them, all under 25, all on rookie contracts.

 

It's just an example, and certainly the most impressive, but if you look at this roster, at THIS team, and see same ole same ole from say 2009-2010, then frankly you forgot all about 2009-2010. And the reason for that is because we still haven't put together a contender, and as the years mount so does the frustration and apathy. Just take a look at the stadium and crowd at Fed Ex. If we were 5-2 10 years ago that place would have been rocking man.

 

If you see marginally better, then I'm sorry, I vehemently disagree with you as well. It's a 180 in approach, and the talent on this roster reflects that. I posted a roster comparison a few months back to illustrate that point. There is a stark contrast in talent from back then to back now. In all three phases of the team, starters, depth, you name it.

 

I'm just as frustrated, if not more so, than anyone. I've never seen anything worth a damn in my lifetime. I'm just as frustrated as anybody that Alex is not playing well, and seems to be holding us back from being even better. I'm just as frustrated as anybody that our OL just crashed and burned.

 

But none of that causes me to lose sight of the progress happening. None of it makes me slam the team after every loss and act like I'm right and everyone is wrong and stupid. And certainly none of it makes me lose my marbles over losing Cousins. Not yet at least. It's going to take years for that one to play out, not weeks.

 

It's the above that gets me frustrated. Not criticism of the team, but visceral hatred and the overarching theme of so many posts "that they were right." On a game to game basis.  But then they hide behind statements like "trust me, I'd love nothing more than to be wrong." To be honest, I'm not so sure...

 

If after this whole thing plays out and we collapse, let's hit the reset button. I can guarantee this job is a pretty attractive one, ten fold more than it was post Zorn. But let's let the movie play out before flipping out after each and every loss. The NFL, especially today's NFL, is a roller coaster of a ride. Unless you are the Rams/Saints/Patriots/Chiefs. Everyone else is kind of stuck in this middling boat. I witnessed the same thing on this board take place after our first 2 losses of the year. Let's see what Jay and company are made of. I'm not throwing in the damn towel yet, not when we're halfway through the year and leading the East. Not with what this defense has proven capable of.

 

In sum, it's not the criticism or honest analysis of the team that is annoying. It's the impulsiveness with which some people speak. The desire to be right. The downright negativity. I totally get people react in different ways, process things differently. And I probably should just be more mindful of that and stay away from the boards outright after a loss. I just wish it weren't that way, and that the fan base had more unity. It's as broken as it's ever been.

 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@HardcoreZorn

 

Yes, we’re all so desperate to be right.  Nothing keeps the ticker moving like proving people I’ve never met from the internet wrong about a sport that I’ll never be employed to “be right” about.  You nailed it!

 

What I find interesting is that folks constantly crush Jay, Doctson, and a few others on here like it’s their job.  They are Redskins last time I checked. I never see you in those threads passionately defending them.  You are constantly drawn to the QB/Bruce threads because you’ve invested heavily in those debates.  This is much less about how you feel sad that the fanbase is “melting down” and more about how much you hate it that folks like me appear to “be right” to this point.

[joeken24]

So there is an legitimate argument surrounding Alex Smith's performance. I've spent most of this rainy day posting about it.

 

But in a fairness, he's QB'd this team to a 5-3 record. And to be honest, in the three games the Redskins lost, the defense played putrid (gave up 103 points in three games, yikes!!). In this last game, Alex threw for #8 like yards and they lost the game. So I don't know, I admit I am back and forth with this. Maybe we need to allow this process to mature. Who knows, maybe we end up with the best of both worlds (Wins with an explosive offense). I think that's what the issue is and what we all want. #8 was able to QB some explosive games offensively (sometimes he did). But lets not forget those rotten eggs up in the meadowlands. #8 didn't win. I don't want to get into that debate here, but #8s team has the same record as the Skins. We have a QB that normally wins (as a matter of fact, one of the winning-est QB over the past 3 years).

 

We want excitement, I get it! But I'll take wins for now. I'll be pissed at those horrible throws and the missed wide open receivers during the game. The goal is winning. I'll try to remember that.

 

I still believe Gruden needs to adjust to his players. The coach's job is to make sure the player succeeds. Right now, Alex is struggling. It seems like Gruden is of the mind set that Alex needs to learn Grudens offense to be successful. **** that!!! Gruden needs to learn Alex and call plays accordingly.

 

Joe Gibbs had to learn that and won SBs

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2016/09/29/How-Bill-Belichick-Joe-Gibbs-and-Bill-Walsh-mastered-NFL-QB-changes/7141475171488/

 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

 

But in a fairness, he's QB'd this team to a 5-3 record. And to be honest, in the three games the Redskins lost, the defense played putrid (gave up 103 points in three games, yikes!!). 

Not sure how you can say in “fairness” and include the Colts game where the D gave up 21 points and picked Luck off twice, while the Redskins offense mustered a measly 9 points.  The Colts game is a good example of a game where folks say “Alex didn’t lose us the game” just because he didn’t turn it over a bunch.  On the contrary, I think Alex’s performance as a passer was the biggest contributor to losing the game.