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When Can We Get Out of the Alex Smith Contract???

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15 minutes ago, redskins4ever28 said:

*sigh* Alex Smith is absolute trash...  I don't care what anyone on here says to defend him, if you really think that guys even a top 20 qb in the league you need to get your head checked.  I remember I wrote 2 letters to the skins FO the past 2 years to please just sign Kirk and stop pretending like we can do better when we haven't had a QB in 30 years.  But, nope.....  Im sure some of you will be like "DUDE WTF KIRK WOULD JUST THROW INTS AND COST US GAMES"

Baloney.  Kirk will throw more picks, but we have NO SHOT at keeping up with a good offense right now..   If you score 21 on us, we lose..  Its a JOKE.  Stop wearing blinders fellas.

 

Stop dancing around this; how do you really feel? ? 

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Two options, go all in on rebuilding in season (hard to do)

Suck it the rest of the season and draft a QB this year.  I like Will Grier but there are many talented guys coming out I bet.   Start Alex next year, work draft pick in when you can.
That would be my plan... because lets face it, would you ant to send out one of this years First Rd QBs with this Offensive line?  Yeah I didn't think so, so that means we are paying Alex to take some lumps, and like it... What if he retires/asks out of the contract?

No idea then.

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Forgive my ignorance, but I’ve been seeing something like we could eat another 20M in cap to cut him after this season.  That seems awful low given his guarantees.

 

Id never want to eat 20M in cap but if they clean house and dump Bruce and Jay, I’d think a new GM/coach would want to start from scratch, and cut the losses.

 

That number just seems too small to me.

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I am not sure if the topic question was answered, didn't read every post.  So here are the possibilities, as I see them.  I am not going to focus on which years the cap hits get taken, as that don't matter too much.  The important thing is how much is the total cap spent.

 

1. Knee-jerk "cut Alex Smith now" angry Redskins fan option.  If you do this, you've paid $55 million for eight games of Alex Smith.  Not only does that get Bruce fired, but after eight games of Colt you will be begging to bring Alex back.  Terrible choice

 

2. Cut Alex after the season.  Same $55M price tag, but hey at least you got a full season of Alex Smith for your money.  This still gets Bruce fired, so he won't do it.  A new GM might consider it, because he doesn't get the blame for Bruce's sunk costs, and it gives the team the ability to minimize losses and look for a franchise QB as soon as possible. But there are better options.

 

3. Keep Alex in 2019.  This means you are committed to paying him his $16M salary in 2020. Total cost: $71M. This buys you three full years of Alex Smith, 2018-202.  How many of those 48 games you choose to let him start is up to the head coach.  You would look to draft a QB highly in 2019 or 2020, starting him as soon as he's ready.  Alex Smith as the world's most expensive backup is still better for your team than Alex Smith as a starter.

 

4.  Keep Alex as your starter through 2021 ($90M) or even 2022 ($111M).  This is insane.  Nobody wants this, not even Alex Smith. Just listing it for completeness.

 

5. Trade Alex after this season.  Total cost: $40M + picks. The team that took him would be committing to pay him $15M in 2019 and $16M in 2020, total $31M.  So they would have to genuinely want two years of Alex Smith as a starter (impossible), or it would have to be a Brock Osweiler situation, where we are giving away picks to unload as much of his cap hit as possible.

 

6. Trade Alex after 2019.  Total cost: $55M + ???. The team that took him would be committing to $16M in 2020.  This is reasonable, especially if Alex Smith has anything left in the tank for 2020.  Remember, as bad as Alex is, there are ten starting QBs worse than him.  He is a veteran, would be a stabilizing force on a team needing a one year bridge to get to their newly drafted QB.  At least that is how we would sell it.  In this scenario, we might even be getting picks back for him.  It would be 4th round picks or lower, either way.

 

7. Alex Smith retires after this season. Total cost: between $18.4M and $40M, or possibly up to $55M.  In this scenario, it would be up to an arbitrator to decide how much of his signing bonus Alex would have to give back to the Redskins. More likely, we would negotiate a specific number with Alex's agent, and it would be on the high end, since Alex is holding the cards.

 

8. Alex Smith retires after 2019.  Total cost: between $38.8M and $55M, maybe more.

 

Of all these, I think the most likely is #6: After the 2019 season, we trade Alex Smith away for a 5th round pick.  By "we" I mean the new Redskins GM, after Bruce gets fired.

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@Tsailand

I'd be good with #6, but I disagree with #1. I don't think we'd ever beg to bring Alex back. We know what Colt is. He'll throw some picks. But at least they will throw with some anticipation and has looked better running Gruden's O than Alex has.

 

But yeah, I don't think most people understand that unless we do a Brockesque trade, we're stuck with him for 3 years, the dead cap is just too much to dump him before then.

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25 minutes ago, Veretax said:

Two options, go all in on rebuilding in season (hard to do)

Suck it the rest of the season and draft a QB this year.  I like Will Grier but there are many talented guys coming out I bet.   Start Alex next year, work draft pick in when you can.
That would be my plan... because lets face it, would you ant to send out one of this years First Rd QBs with this Offensive line?  Yeah I didn't think so, so that means we are paying Alex to take some lumps, and like it... What if he retires/asks out of the contract?

No idea then.

 

I get what your saying but it just absolutely drives me nuts that this FO has screwed up what we had.  Its mind boggling to me.  30 years no QB and you get rid of the young gun slinger that we groomed?  Who does that?  Ill tell you who, teams like San Diego who got rid of Brees.  Its like we are so bad we don't know when we have it good.  Im happy we are 5-3, but I also know its just a ruse.    Could we make playoffs?  Sure, trash division and with our joke of a schedule and we should.  But this isn't sustainable...  AP is a monster, and Guice will be great, our Defense is looking great, and our OL is unhealthy but overall pretty darn good, so we need a QB and a wr.  The sad part is GOOD QBS MAKE THEIR CRAP WRS LOOK GOOD.    Im done ranting, Im sorry..  Understand I was born in 84 and been a fan since 89, and Im NOT from the area.  Im an Altoona PA native (Steeler Country), but I wear my colors proud and even have a redskins tattoo on my forearm for all to see.  But I HATE that this FO did this screw up over the past 2 years.  I hate the fact that I want to boycott this team and stop supporting them until we see change but I cant because I love the team too much lol.  Its a sad life I live I guess, haha

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29 minutes ago, Veretax said:

Two options, go all in on rebuilding in season (hard to do)

Suck it the rest of the season and draft a QB this year.  I like Will Grier but there are many talented guys coming out I bet.   Start Alex next year, work draft pick in when you can.
That would be my plan... because lets face it, would you ant to send out one of this years First Rd QBs with this Offensive line?  Yeah I didn't think so, so that means we are paying Alex to take some lumps, and like it... What if he retires/asks out of the contract?

No idea then.

 

Think he might. Got all the $$$$$ he needs. He thought he was going to a contender, but the injuries and maybe scheme not working out. 

 

Would be the best thing for all, maybe. Then, QBotF and Guice? with some mixed in AP? Oh, me likey! 

 

Need OL and WRs bad too, obviously. 

1 minute ago, redskins4ever28 said:

The sad part is GOOD QBS MAKE THEIR CRAP WRS LOOK GOOD. 

 

explore this, if able, and willing to look beyond one or two rare QBs... 

 

I'd be curious, but too lazy to do the work, always. 

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People know i am no apologist for Alex Smith.  He's been disappointing.  And I am not ruling out any of the worst case scenarios laid out here by some. 

 

But I agree that he has weak weapons.   However, he has a stud RB which we haven't had in well over a decade.   So he does have it easier than his predecessor.  Like his predecessor, he doesn't have a FO who does a good job to set him up for success.   Is it that crazy why Kirk would want to leave to a team that actually give him not just one but two really good receivers, running backs (when Cook was healthy) and engages in FA seriously when they want to upgrade.   And before this warrants the FO police to hit back -- yeah this FO IMO aren't awful at it, they are mediocre, so so.  Yes, good decisions mixed in with the bad.  But not enough good decisions IMO. 

 

And yes i like our college scouting but no I don't for the most part like pro scouting.  And for those who think that's sour grapes.  You hear the same point made in a different way among others from Bruce's biggest cheerleader, Chris Cooley, who is at Redskins Park and knows the personnel people.  Cooley has outright goofed on the pro scouting department.  I can't recall him ever complementing any of the people who work in pro, certainly not Santos.  But he gushes plenty about Kyle Smith.  He even joked one time that they leave the team needs know to the draft because they don't trust the pro department to get it right.

 

I agree with (and said so at the time) what Finlay said in the summer which is their FA approach this off season was arrogant.  They didn't do much to upgrade pass weapons.  They doubled down on the same approach in the past as to O line.   Even though both things did them in last year.

 

Heck even RB and NT they took their chances on and didn't delve into FA on those counts.  Lucky for them the draft fell to them in a way where they drafted by need.

 

And all the Alex hype to me was another symptom of that arrogance.  I've heard multiple times they thought they upgraded at QB so that alone will make their passing game better.  And guys who are typically reluctant to just throw out gossip like Keim even echoed that.  

 

With that diatribe from me, oddly enough I am not in the group throwing in the towel.  Unlike last year, they have a stud a RB.  Thompson is hurt but at least is coming back.  And most importantly instead of facing for most of last year the toughest schedule in the NFL, they now have the weakest.  All is not lost.

 

Just saying if the season goes south where you can associate it to clear FO mistakes -- then it would be a poetic and justified end to the Bruce regime.  Shakespearian if you think about the whole narrative.

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So a week ago people are commending how great the team is around Alex, which is why we are now winning games. Now we are back to talking about how terribly run we are. The back and forth is nauseating. It's a long season, though I fear the OL injuries may be too tough to overcome.

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@Skinsinparadise I agree with you on all fronts, per usual.  What concerns me though is that if you look at some of Adrians best plays, they are sprung by guys that will not suit up again this year.    I just have a hard time convincing myself that the running game will not suffer badly as a result of that, no matter who is carrying the ball.  Add to that, one of Alex’s biggest issues is being indecisive, holding the ball too long.  He will inevitably have to get rid of it faster and sack up and get bludgeoned for the sake of a completion to move the sticks.  I haven’t seen that out of him here or elsewhere really.  While I agree that the lack of weapons and even the Oline depth is the fault of the FO, the fact that these inferior weapons are getting open and Alex isn’t hitting them, kind of plays into the arrogance of Jays system.  There are a lot of positive plays to be made every single week that just aren’t being made.  Now with actual issues on the Oline and one less weapon, I can’t quite convince myself things are going to get better now.

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I agree that he has weak weapons.   However, he has a stud RB which we haven't had in well over a decade.   So he does have it easier than his predecessor.

 

AP looked good despite so many missed blocks of week's past. 

AP ran what? a 1.9 average last week behind a crap OL and poor ATL defense. 

 

G'Bless that man, and he is what you claim.. a stud RB... but that OL.. 

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk would want

 

not at all crazy, but do not care, he gone forever regardless

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But not enough good decisions IMO. 

 

F/O dudes need to be fired. That's, imho, how the League should work. You take gambles. They fail miserably? you lose your cushy job.

 

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And all the Alex hype to me was another symptom of that arrogance. 

 

It was yet another arrogant gamble, yeah. I was right there with them, but I thought two things as caveat. Alex would play aggressive like a man with something further to prove... and a better OL than he had in 2017..  (if healthy). Fail thoughts, both, and not likely needing to be separated in relation. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

All is not lost.

 

Just saying if the season goes south where you can associate it to clear FO mistakes -- then it would be a poetic and justified end to the Bruce regime.  Shakespearian if you think about the whole narrative.

 

LOL, guess so.. and yeah, the decision makers have to be held accountable. Again, applaud the optimism, though I uncharacteristically retain none much, really. 

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Just now, HardcoreZorn said:

So a week ago people are commending how great the team is around Alex, which is why we are now winning games. Now we are back to talking about how terribly run we are. The back and forth is nauseating. It's a long season, though I fear the OL injuries may be too tough to overcome.

 

We're continuing the conversation that we've had since the Draft.

"Why don't we draft a LG? Ours is not good and injury prone."

"Why don't we hit FA and get a G, and we need better talent at WR."

"Why are we only going dumpster diving with FAs?"

 

Where have you been?

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3 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

So a week ago people are commending how great the team is around Alex, which is why we are now winning games. Now we are back to talking about how terribly run we are. The back and forth is nauseating. It's a long season, though I fear the OL injuries may be too tough to overcome.

 

Probably because the defense played really well in 6 of 7 games, as well as the offense that was sprung by the running game.

 

However there were still skeptical folks in regards to the competition we had beaten.  As well as knowing deep down that how we were winning was not a sustainable model.

 

Losing 3/5 of the Oline, it’s only natural that folks are going to go back questioning the depth of this often injured group.

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51 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

I am not sure if the topic question was answered, didn't read every post.  So here are the possibilities, as I see them.  I am not going to focus on which years the cap hits get taken, as that don't matter too much.  The important thing is how much is the total cap spent.

 

1. Knee-jerk "cut Alex Smith now" angry Redskins fan option.  If you do this, you've paid $55 million for eight games of Alex Smith.  Not only does that get Bruce fired, but after eight games of Colt you will be begging to bring Alex back.  Terrible choice

 

2. Cut Alex after the season.  Same $55M price tag, but hey at least you got a full season of Alex Smith for your money.  This still gets Bruce fired, so he won't do it.  A new GM might consider it, because he doesn't get the blame for Bruce's sunk costs, and it gives the team the ability to minimize losses and look for a franchise QB as soon as possible. But there are better options.

 

#1 is extreme, but I could see #2 happening if Bruce is fired sometime between now and the beginning of the new league year.  #2 would be my preferred option as well, because in this perfect scenario, a new GM is either: assessing Gruden for the season, or giving a new coach a chance to address the position the way they see fit.  Either case, I don't see someone fighting for their professional career, or trying to begin a new regime, willingly hitching their wagon to Alex Smith.  

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1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

3. Keep Alex in 2019.  This means you are committed to paying him his $16M salary in 2020. Total cost: $71M. This buys you three full years of Alex Smith, 2018-202.  How many of those 48 games you choose to let him start is up to the head coach.  You would look to draft a QB highly in 2019 or 2020, starting him as soon as he's ready.  Alex Smith as the world's most expensive backup is still better for your team than Alex Smith as a starter.

 

 

This would be my choice. If you're paying someone, may as well keep him as a backup QB even if he's beaten out for the starting job at some point. Stranger things have happened too...if we somehow are contending, a backup like Smith would be a nice luxury to have. 

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8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

This would be my choice. If you're paying someone, may as well keep him as a backup QB even if he's beaten out for the starting job at some point. Stranger things have happened too...if we somehow are contending, a backup like Smith would be a nice luxury to have. 

 

eh, he sure wouldn't complain or hinder the young buck. Wants to start and win, but ultimately, who should complain about being a 20+ mil a year part-time teacher? lol

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@BatteredFanSyndrome@Morneblade

 

I think you're confusing what I'm getting at. They should have had a better option for LG, though quality OL are scarce throughout the league. If I recall, a lot of people were upset we let Spener Long go for 7M AAV, who is one of the most poorly rated guards in the league. Just an example, but it's not as if every team throughout the league has 9-10 starting level OL. And every team has weaknesses/weaker spots, it's just the good ones can scheme around it and mask their deficiencies.

 

As of right now, we are still 5-3 with playoffs still a legitimate possibility. It was just last week everyone is celebrating Clinton Dix trade and we are going places. Now we are melting again, just like after Indianapolis and Green Bay. It's right to question and be skeptical, sure. But it seems crazy to get too high or too low from game to game. To talk about how great the rest of the team has been as a way to diminish Alex, and then the very next week talk about the FO not giving us the resources we need to succeed. Do you not see how those two things are directly contradictory? Sustainable or not, you can't have it both ways.

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35 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

So a week ago people are commending how great the team is around Alex, which is why we are now winning games. Now we are back to talking about how terribly run we are. The back and forth is nauseating. It's a long season, though I fear the OL injuries may be too tough to overcome.

What? 

A Week ago people still were complaining about Alex and others were like "OMG JUST BE HAPPY WE ARE 5-2"  But we weren't happy because Alex is so bad and we didn't want to lie to ourselves.

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8 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

eh, he sure wouldn't complain or hinder the young buck. Wants to start and win, but ultimately, who should complain about being a 20+ mil a year part-time teacher? lol

 

That and why pay someone that much money to not contribute somehow? If the money is being spent and hindering acquisition of other players, you might as well keep him as one of the better backups over adding yet another new QB or keeping McCoy. 

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2 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Now we are melting again, just like after Indianapolis and Green Bay. It's right to question and be skeptical, sure. But it seems crazy to get too high or too low from game to game.

 

Hey man, first, I so hope you are right. Truly and completely. I think you'd have a hard time finding any clicks from me that were not "likes" towards you. 

 

That said.. this is anything but "just like."

 

 

I'd only ask you two fair, I think, questions.

1. What do you imagine the run blocking like now? Aside from a few big ones per game, I thought it was meh before the injuries, tbh. 

2. what does no run game do for the already underwhelming pass game with bleh at WR? 

 

I am absolutely and in no way telling you how you should feel as a fan going forward. Only suggesting why I.. and perhaps others.. are so close to mailing it in. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, redskins4ever28 said:

What? 

A Week ago people still were complaining about Alex and others were like "OMG JUST BE HAPPY WE ARE 5-2"  But we weren't happy because Alex is so bad and we didn't want to lie to ourselves.

Maybe it just comes down to my philosophical belief in being a fan. I simply don't understand how somebody like yourself gets any satisfaction from this team if you can't shut up when we're 5-2 instead of crying about just the QB of the team. And then waits to pounce when they lose again with this "see! told you Alex is crappy!" Whatever, this is a battle not worth fighting. Cheers and hail to the Redskins.

1 minute ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Hey man, first, I so hope you are right. Truly and completely. I think you'd have a hard time finding any clicks from me that were not "likes" towards you. 

 

That said.. this is anything but "just like."

 

 

I'd only ask you two fair, I think, questions.

1. What do you imagine the run blocking like now? Aside from a few big ones per game, I thought it was meh before the injuries, tbh. 

2. what does no run game do for the already underwhelming pass game with bleh at WR? 

 

I am absolutely and in no way telling you how you should feel as a fan going forward. Only suggesting why I.. and perhaps others.. are so close to mailing it in. 

 

 

Even I said just a little bit ago that I fear the OL injuries may be too much to overcome. But that's not really what I'm at all getting at. And this board was indeed melting after Indy and NO.

 

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41 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

AP looked good despite so many missed blocks of week's past. 

AP ran what? a 1.9 average last week behind a crap OL and poor ATL defense. 

 

G'Bless that man, and he is what you claim.. a stud RB... but that OL.. 

 

 

Sure, but you sort of make my point.  Without him having a big day -- the team just loses.  Last year they didn't even have that -- with running backs who were just as much scrubs (sans Thompson) as the receivers. 

 

41 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

not at all crazy, but do not care, he gone forever regardless

 

 

i wouldn't care either in your shoes since you weren't a fan and watched him develop.  In one sense, yeah forget the players who are now gone.  This situation is different because of how epically inept they looked negotiating the contract.  And even if I went along the lines of the few vocal FO defenders -- that the dude just wanted out and they had no choice.  What does that say about this FO when your most important player can't wait to leave.  If this FO doesn't change or change their approach, don't be shocked if Alex doesn't want to leave at some point, too whether he expresses it or not.  They are doing him no favors either.  And like Kirk, Alex is a stand up guy so would likely say all the right things publicly. 

 

Laconfora said Josh Norman doesn't like this FO and can't wait to leave, too. In his case, he's probably out regardless.  But, at some point, maybe there is some smoke to the fire.  I am not saying you are on the other side of this position.  Just explaining why to some who are frustrated by this FO, we can't let it go until changes happen.  If Bruce is gone, then I can care less then about anything related to Kirk. 

 

41 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

F/O dudes need to be fired. That's, imho, how the League should work. You take gambles. They fail miserably? you lose your cushy job.

 

 

Yep. 

 

41 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

LOL, guess so.. and yeah, the decision makers have to be held accountable. Again, applaud the optimism, though I uncharacteristically retain none much, really. 

 

I got to see it play out.  to me this game is key because if they can't beat Tampa it proves how vulnerable this team is to explosive passing teams and if so the defense is overrated.  but I am not going there, yet.  Maybe the defense needed another wake up call.   My key source of optimism is Chris Thompson.  As down as i am about the receivers though I am higher than most on Doctson -- I think Thompson is electric if he's right.  And I like this defense so hoping it was just an aberration.

 

If they can survive this coming game and get Quinn (granted a mystery) and Thompson a week later then it might do the trick.  I am headed to the Tampa game so maybe I am deluding myself so I feel good when I am driving 4 hours back and forth. ?

 

As for people (not you) posting about how are people complaining now when they were extolling everything last week.   You got me where that's coming from.  The lack of passing weapons among other things has been limiting this offense win or lose.   The lack of depth at O line was a ticking time bomb talked about for months during the Spring.  Maybe they are vindicated and the season still stays on track.  I am ok with that position.  But it has to play out.  In the meantime, at the very least the lack of depth, trusting Lauvao on the O line, coupled with lack of passing weapons is what plenty are panicked about.  And the panic doesn't seem weird, its actually being talked about on 106.7 as i am typing this. 

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3 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Even I said just a little bit ago that I fear the OL injuries may be too much to overcome. But that's not really what I'm at all getting at. And this board was indeed melting after Indy and NO.

 

Cool. Yes, they were.. and yes, you should be fearful that they can't overcome this. May something or someone bless us all for what lies ahead. 

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1 hour ago, Veretax said:

Two options, go all in on rebuilding in season (hard to do)

Suck it the rest of the season and draft a QB this year.  I like Will Grier but there are many talented guys coming out I bet.   Start Alex next year, work draft pick in when you can.
That would be my plan... because lets face it, would you ant to send out one of this years First Rd QBs with this Offensive line?  Yeah I didn't think so, so that means we are paying Alex to take some lumps, and like it... What if he retires/asks out of the contract?

No idea then.

 

Even if we lose out, it wouldn't be enough to snag a top 5 pick.  Raiders, Giants, Niners, Bills, Cards, Browns, Broncos, Jets all suck too.  I'd predict that right now the top 5 would look something like this (and 6-7 possibly being):

 

1. Raiders

2. Giants/Bill

3. Bills/Giants

4. 49ers/Cards

5. Cards/49ers

6. Jets

7. Broncos

8. Browns

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sure, but you sort of make my point.

 

I don't think I was making an effort to fight your point. My point was that, even "with some great OL", AP was still working harder than he should have had to, just tom get anything, on many plays. Now, w/o that same "great OL", the run game is probably about nonexistent.

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Last year they

 

Nope. I am stopping there. I'm not interested in the whole QB comparison that is irrelevant since the 2018 offseason. One was gone anyway.

 

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

i wouldn't care either in your shoes since you weren't a fan and watched him develop. 

 

and there we go again. What are you doing, man? I'm not going to bite on this anymore. Keep it about the team and not me or you personally.

 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I got to see it play out.  to me this game is key because

 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The lack of passing weapons among other things has been limiting this offense win or lose.   The lack of depth at O line was a ticking time bomb talked about for months during the Springs.

 

Agree Agree, and more agree. 

 

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And the panic doesn't seem weird,

 

Not at all. Fans are passionate. 5 and 2 record... in a current NFCE... very compelling, even for the broken fan. Losing a third game.. losing so many needed payers... a crushing turn of events. 

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