petey hodge

Does Doctson even care?

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Doctson has a gift for making everything look extremely difficult but still pulling it off. 

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4 hours ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

 

Actually 6 for 66. That would be 96 catches for 1056 yards in a 16-game season.

 

Laveranues Coles esq numbers about 15 years ago. Think he bagged that many catches for less than 1,000 yards. Joking aside, I'd take that right now. He's improved significantly over the last couple of months.

12 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Doctson has a gift for making everything look extremely difficult but still pulling it off. 

 

Haha that's funny. I think you have a point.

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7 hours ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

 

Actually 6 for 66. That would be 96 catches for 1056 yards in a 16-game season.

 

Actually it was 5 for 62 when I post this a day ago. As for the rest of your post.

 

Really?

 

Tell me when he does that for 16 games. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Unbias said:

He's flashed, which he's done before. He's strung together a couple nice games, so my fingers are crossed. Right now the sample size is small, but he's under contract for another year, so why not be optimistic? 

 

 

The team also can use the 5th year rookie contract clause if they choose.

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It is interesting that he had his best statistical game this year in Colt's first game starting.  He now leads the Redskins WRs in receiving yards.  It may be a situation like Dallas had with Dez Bryant.  Dez was worth a lot with Romo as QB, but not worth much with Dak at QB.  If your WRs biggest strength is winning jump balls, their value to the offense depends a lot on whether the QB playing is willing to throw jump balls.

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Doctson isn't a 10 year veteran, its season 2 as a starter. He had 6 TDs last year. He is coming on stronger in recent games with some great catches in the mix. He isn't dropping the ball much of late, he is developing into a good run blocker. Jay has gone out of his way to complement him of late. I think things are looking up for the dude. Now whether he is a bonafide #1 receiver, that's a different conversation. But you got plenty of outright busts at receiver including with high picks, Doctson clearly is no bust.

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On 11/24/2018 at 1:58 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Doctson isn't a 10 year veteran, its season 2 as a starter. He had 6 TDs last year. He is coming on stronger in recent games with some great catches in the mix. He isn't dropping the ball much of late, he is developing into a good run blocker. Jay has gone out of his way to complement him of late. I think things are looking up for the dude. Now whether he is a bonafide #1 receiver, that's a different conversation. But you got plenty of outright busts at receiver including with high picks, Doctson clearly is no bust.

 

I think it's fair to assume he's never be a 'bonafide #1', which is fine. Many first round WRs don't, so maybe it's time we start giving him realistic expectations.  

 

Personally I think he's sort of like the Eagles Nelson Agholor. There games are quite different, but both came into the league with the scouts saying they had good fundamentals and should be able to contribute early. 

 

After Agholor's 2nd season he was regarded as a 'bust' and many thought he didn't deserve a roster spot. When his 3rd season hit his catch percentage jumped and he had ~800 yards and 8 TDs. I think his progress was a combination of him working through some mental blocks, but also the team figuring out how to best use his skill set. That was moving him into the slot and giving him more run-and-catch type opportunities. 

 

Back to Doctson, it seemed like the first bit of his career he became our defacto 'red zone/fade route' guy. That didn't really work, but that might have been put in a bad role that ultimately impacted his development. If I look at his production There are a few things that pop up: 

- His yards per catch are quite a bit down - His highest on the season was 14 yards per catch (against Dallas) when he averaged 14.3 last season. My thoughts are that maybe he's a better chain mover than a big play guy? 

- His catch % has gone way up - He's at 57% when his previous season high was 45%. Not sure if this is his development, usage or most likely a combination of the two. 

- He's on a 7 game streak with at least 3 targets - It doesn't sound like much, but it means he's a part of the game plan. Prior to that stretch the most consecutive streak he's had is 3 games (weeks 10-12 in 2017). Again, I can't determine if this is because of his development, less options or just a different play call mentality, but at least he's getting chances. 

 

Overall he's young and there's room to grow. For me I hope he can develop into a competent #2 where if the #1 is attracting a safety he can win against an average NFL corner most of the time. 

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Man the bar has been lowered for Doctson big time. But being a former 1st rounder, I guess its important to try to salvage something out of him. Truth is you can get his kind of production from most mid round draft picks any given year.

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46 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Man the bar has been lowered for Doctson big time. But being a former 1st rounder, I guess its important to try to salvage something out of him. Truth is you can get his kind of production from most mid round draft picks any given year.

 

The idea though that a receiver especially one drafted in the 20s in the first round should be a #1 receiver, sounds good in theory, but it often doesn't work out that way.  Heck a lot of them don't work out period.   From what I recall the receiver position has a high bust rate in the first round.

 

John Ross, Justin Blackmon, Tavon Austin Corey Coleman, Mike Williams, Kevin White on and on.   Heck in the same draft Treadwell

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19 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Man the bar has been lowered for Doctson big time. But being a former 1st rounder, I guess its important to try to salvage something out of him. Truth is you can get his kind of production from most mid round draft picks any given year.

 

Yep, I agree.  It's like we all want to give him a 7th place ribbon for participation.

 

I wonder what his trade worth is to other teams.  That's a true measure of his value....  What would he appraise at?  a 4th round draft pick? 

You decide

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20 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Man the bar has been lowered for Doctson big time. But being a former 1st rounder, I guess its important to try to salvage something out of him. Truth is you can get his kind of production from most mid round draft picks any given year.

 

 

At this point the pick has been made.  If he's got a future in the NFL on an active roster, albeit not as high as expected for where he was taken, it's not necessary to move on.  It would be a mistake to now over pay him to keep him around with the hopes that he does become that 1st round talent, but what's done is done in the draft.  If he can provide a level of contribution, keep him contributing unless there are clear other options that are better on the roster.  

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Doctson being a bust due to where he was picked in the draft is a different question than whether or not he can be a solid WR.

 

Amari Cooper was the 4th pick

 

Michael Crabtree was the 10th pick

 

I think it can be argued that neither WR has lived up to the expectations that come with being drafted that high, however Crabtree turned a corner at a certain point once he got over some injuries and was still productive and essential on the team.

 

Cooper flashes his athletic attributes but hasn't come close to the kind of WR he was expected to be.  

 

Basically, even if we are turning the page on Doctson becoming this stud #1 WR that can dominate a defense, doesn't mean we should abandon the hope that he becomes a solid contributor in the future.  

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"True" #1 stud WRs that a defense has to game plan around and who can basically do it all are incredibly rare. Most teams are at least somewhat WR by committee, even if it's just trying to scheme certain people to get open.

 

Guys like Julio, AB, OBJ, etc are the exception, not the rule. That's sort of like saying a 1st round pass rusher/DL is a bust if he doesn't end up being Von Miller, JJ Watt, or Aaron Donald. There have been so many highly drafted WR busts that if you get at least a good NFL player out of your draft selection at the position then you've not done too bad. 

 

Doctson isn't a world beater and he probably won't ever be on the level of the best in the game, but IMO he has shown that he does have good skills and can be productive if he gets the targets. Now that he has a QB who actually throws to his WRs, his production has gone up and he's making more of a difference. Curious to see how the chemistry between him and Colt grows through the rest of the season.

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To the question posed in the thread title, I remember after his big catch last night seeing him display some emotion. Pretty cool. I guess if he can take some steps in the final 4 games like he has the past few, he might be a good contributor moving forward. 

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17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

To the question posed in the thread title, I remember after his big catch last night seeing him display some emotion. Pretty cool. I guess if he can take some steps in the final 4 games like he has the past few, he might be a good contributor moving forward. 

 

I agree. One of the few positives from the past few weeks. I thinks he's progressing well in the circumstances.

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3 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

To the question posed in the thread title, I remember after his big catch last night seeing him display some emotion. Pretty cool. I guess if he can take some steps in the final 4 games like he has the past few, he might be a good contributor moving forward. 

 

I also saw this and was pumped for him....  but I wish he caught that lay-out touchdown pass.... that would have cured a few ills.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

 

I also saw this and was pumped for him....  but I wish he caught that lay-out touchdown pass.... that would have cured a few ills.

 

 

 

Unfortunately it wasn't a catchable ball. He completely laid out and it was still probably about a foot away from his hands.

 

Sucks Doctson he went from a guy who doesn't throw to his WRs, to a guy who does, starts to get more balls thrown his way, then that guy gets injured and now he has to deal with Captain Butt Fumble as his QB (though we all do so I guess it's shared pain). I was hoping that having McCoy in there would let Doctson shine a bit more down the stretch. 

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3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I agree. One of the few positives from the past few weeks. I thinks he's progressing well in the circumstances.

 

That's good.  But I hope he's gone next year.  He can go to another team if he wants to continue his career.  I'd be okay with that.  But he has underperformed and underachieved here.

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I think at the very least the idea that Maurice Harris > Doctson rap that was in vogue earlier in the season has been put to rest.  Doctson right now seems like the clear best WR on the team.  While i agree he's not a #1, he's improving and besides making some acrobatic catches -- i like the attitude and oomph he's playing with including emerging as a good run blocker.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I think Josh was going to have his first 100 yard game last night, he had 40 yards in that first quarter, before Colt was hurt.

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With Doctson the issue is no longer if he can play, it is whether he can be consistent and what kind of WR will he be.  He is good enough to be on an NFL roster, but his ultimate role is still to be determined. 

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4 hours ago, petey hodge said:

I also saw this and was pumped for him....  but I wish he caught that lay-out touchdown pass.... that would have cured a few ills.

 

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

Unfortunately it wasn't a catchable ball. He completely laid out and it was still probably about a foot away from his handsS

 

If you watch that reply and I noticed it during the game that he actually slowed down a bit. Gave up on his route. The ball was thrown to his shoulder where he should have been able to catch it and still be in bound for a TD. This is the reason why it just looks like it was overthrown. 

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We often see a guy open, slow up.  I'd guess it may not be prudent for a WR to always sprint as fast as they can. We saw that with Davis a few weeks back, wide open so he slows down, and Alex had passed as he had been still sprinting.

 

What is the rule there. I would guess with a noodle arm QB, the WRs will tend to slow down. Since it will be a floater anyways.  When a WR has a total gun arm QB firing missiles, I would guess they slow less often.  A QB knows how much a guy can accelerate.  Maybe guys slow to be better able to adjust to an under thrown ball, or slow up when they get to the place that the ball is supposed to be.

 

All speculation but think in the end this stuff gets worked out in reps.  Smith looked like in preseason mode much of the year, WRT to WR chemistry.

Edited by RandyHolt

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