Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Panthers

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Is it just me or does Jordan Reed not have "it" anymore with his routes.  He's not toasting linebackers or safeties and making them look cross footed.

 

The question then is, if he is still doing that, how are we not getting the ball to him?  What happened to him being the one on one nightmare?

 

Is our scheme sucking and putting him out in space and defenders are helping towards him too much?

[Bonez3]

Gruden's coaching at the end of the first half was downright incompetent. Knowing that a FG is likely best outcome, you cannot call any play that has possibility to lose yardage on 1st down. Even sacrificing clock for yardage on a run would have been reasonable. 

 

The defensive strategy of rushing 4 clearly didn't work for final 2 series. Manusky must have been in a coma. If you're gonna rush 4 the coverage scheme cannot allow the type of open receivers Carolina had. Finally, on 4th down they pressured Cam and he folded, as Cam does. 

 

All in all, impressed with AP. D line did a good enough job and Norman kinda had a good game, huge peanut punch. 

[skinsmania123]

7 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Is it just me or does Jordan Reed not have "it" anymore with his routes.  He's not toasting linebackers or safeties and making them look cross footed.

 

The question then is, if he is still doing that, how are we not getting the ball to him?  What happened to him being the one on one nightmare?

 

Is our scheme sucking and putting him out in space and defenders are helping towards him too much?

He looks great to me. He has "it" but how the hell are we ever going to see it except on that acrobatic catch he made yesterday with another Alex Smith misfire. There was not a defender around him or he may not have come down with it.  

 

I look for him all the time. He gets separation but I do not see Smith going to him much. He goes to Davis, which is to me is partly habit.  Jordan Reed should have plays dialed up for him by Gruden.  How you can have such a talent on offense and underutilize him in the manner in which they do really is unbelievable . 

[RandyHolt]

16 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Is it just me or does Jordan Reed not have "it" anymore with his routes.  He's not toasting linebackers or safeties and making them look cross footed.

 

The question then is, if he is still doing that, how are we not getting the ball to him?  What happened to him being the one on one nightmare?

 

Is our scheme sucking and putting him out in space and defenders are helping towards him too much?

 

We are not seeing the hoops moves.  The former Capital Brooks Laich used to say, if you see a player that is not playing the way he normally does, he is probably injured.

 

I don't think its a stretch to think he is probably battling an injury of sorts.  I have seen quite a few posters wondering why we are not heavily targeting him this year.  I think the answer is pretty obvious - he is not 100% or we want him to stay at 100%. We have only played 5 games.  9 targets was good to see yesterday.

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Gruden's coaching at the end of the first half was downright incompetent. Knowing that a FG is likely best outcome, you cannot call any play that has possibility to lose yardage on 1st down. Even sacrificing clock for yardage on a run would have been reasonable. 

 

Your veteran QB has to know he can't take a sack. Nothing wrong with being aggressive. That's on Alex. Has to be more aware of the situation.  

 

2 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

 

The defensive strategy of rushing 4 clearly didn't work for final 2 series. Manusky must have been in a coma. If you're gonna rush 4 the coverage scheme cannot allow the type of open receivers Carolina had. Finally, on 4th down they pressured Cam and he folded, as Cam does. 

 

Actually it worked exactly the way it's supposed to. Keep Cam from beating you with his feet and nothing deep. No big plays. Keep it all in front of you. Eventually Cam will make a mistake - and he did. Missed a few guys he should have hit In the end, the team won the game - D only gave up 17 pts - tier 2nd lowest pt total and after they scored 30+ pts the last two weeks. 

 

2 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

 

All in all, impressed with AP. D line did a good enough job and Norman kinda had a good game, huge peanut punch. 

 

Agree Dllne and AP. I will assume you were being sarcastic about Norman. He really had a great game. Glad to see it. Word is he called a team meeting with the D. They all aired some issues. Was a really good meeting. Teammates feel a lot better about Josh after the meeting. He is apparently quite in the locker room - seemed aloof. People close to the team said they came away with a better understanding of who Josh is. I may have to retract my wanting him gone after this season if he keeps this up. 

[NoVaSkins21]

6 hours ago, moondog said:

Dallas’ pass rush is gonna cause us problems. 

 

Lawrence and their DL is going to feast.  They're going to stack the box against AP and force Smith and the WRs to beat them deep.  Pretty simple gameplan for them

[Warhead36]

I have no issue with Gruden being a little aggressive on that last drive to end the half. We were really on the fringe of FG range(not knowing of course that Hop had 56 yard range in him yesterday). And with IIRC 56 seconds left, if we can pick up a 15+ yard chunk we could take shots into the EZ. You have to trust your veteran QB to not take a sack or grounding in that situation. I blame Smith more than Gruden.

[clskinsfan]

See a lot of ragging on the OLine in this thread. And yes they have struggled up the middle in pass pro. But they are road grading people in the running game. We are 12th in YPG Rushing so far this season. And I think they will only improve from here.

3 minutes ago, SAli457180 said:

 

Lawrence and their DL is going to feast.  They're going to stack the box against AP and force Smith and the WRs to beat them deep.  Pretty simple gameplan for them

 

Yep. That is how I would play us. Although I think we can still run on them in all honesty. 

[RandyHolt]

I would love to have a full discussion on why it took NFL coaches until the past 5-10 years to use defensive timeouts aggressively at the end of havles. Sure, Belly was doing it for much longer than that, but it took the rest of the league forever to even consider it. Its more than trying to get 2 consecutive possessions, its about trying to score at every chance. Defenses now play to get the ball back with time.  It had been grinding on my nerves for close to 2 decades, wondering why not?

 

That, and going for it on 4th down. I think it's safe to say the conservative play calling we have all seen most of our lives was indeed just that, very conservative.  I used to call it coaching scared, which was somewhat frowned upon IIRC.

 

Hats off to Jay to have to stones to call 3 timeouts to get the ball back at the end of the first half.

 

One day, letting a guy score a TD on purpose to save any chance a team has at winning, may become common place. Its rare that the opportunity presents itself so its not a big deal, but I expect to see it openly discussed within the next 20 years.

[RandyHolt]

Without AP, I question how smooth our grading would be.  He is not Barry Sanders'ing, but he is not running through wide open holes either. He is making a lot of the yards out of very little IMO. Maybe many OLs are afforded such luxuries (back making them look great) but it just seems AP has been showing great vision and cuts, making the most of what he has.  If I am way off base, at least he is doing it better than our fleet of backs over the recent years.

[skinsfan35yrs.]

Alls I can say is once again we saw a tail of 2 halves with this offense and that sucks. 17 pts one half a measly 6 in the 2nd. 127 yrds passing in the 1st half and a grand total of 36 yrds  passing in the 2nd. A chance to put the game away put go backwards and no score at all

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Oops wrong thread.

[bobandweave]

Very happy with a win after that Monday night embarrassment.

 

Things aren’t right everywhere and there is plenty to work on. Like why over the past decade has this team been a better bet as the dogs then when they are favorites at home? That goes a lot further then Kirk or Alex or Jay and is a fact. Doesn’t make a lot of sense until you peal back the layers and see the issue has always been Snyder. The week prior the culture of not giving a damn was shown to the whole world with the players riding scooters. No serious franchise would ever do that before a big game but for the Redskins it was just another day at the office.

 

And what do they do after that Saints thrashing? They get mad and they play better. Until the second half when they start coasting and feeling good about themselves and nearly lose the game again. But they didn’t, maybe it was pride finally showing up? The thing I want to see from this staff and players more then anything is a desire to show the world they can compete with anyone out there. We haven’t seen a killer instinct in years. That starts at the top. 

 

Now the players can make a difference to this yo-yo crap we’ve seen this year with one win one loss one win one loss and this weeks win. Do I believe we can show pride against the team I call the pukes ? that others call the Cowboys this week? Time will tell us but to me it starts with an attitude that everyone can see this week. If they come out with a party atmosphere again this week the pukes will beat them. If the players treat this week like it matters to them then they can easily beat the pukes. 

 

The pukes are a one dimensional offense. The have one star player and after shutting down one of the best RBs in the league and holding McCaffrey to only 20 rushing yards they can shut down Zeke. The players have to want it more then the pukes if they want respect. They should blitz the hell out of Dak in all passing situations because none of those pass catchers are any good. If they do that they should be able to win this week.

 

The problem is what teams going to show up? I have no idea and as someone who bets the every other week showing up likely will have me taking the pukes this week to win as much as I hate that. Good thing I haven’t bet on my team once in five years. 

 

This week I’m feeling good that they won a game they were expected to lose and showed up. The players need to remember the winning feeling and play like it matters and everything will right itself. Alex will find his grove, AP will run wild, and then the division is there’s to lose. It starts this week let’s hope the players and coaching staff is up to the task

 

[hatchetwound]

14 hours ago, mojo said:

The play where the panthers jumped offside and Smith didn’t take advantage of the free play was really disappointing to me.  In Smith, I knew weren’t getting the most physically gifted QB but I thought above the shoulders he would be an upper echelon player.  Brady, Rodgers, those guys have a free play and they are immediately taking a shot for a big gain.  Instead, Smith is looking around for the refs and holding his arms up for a flag and chucks the ball out of bounds. I thought he had more savvy than that.

Is it possible he was having trouble hearing if there was a whistle because of all the panthers fans there?

[Morneblade]

14 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Without AP, I question how smooth our grading would be.  He is not Barry Sanders'ing, but he is not running through wide open holes either. He is making a lot of the yards out of very little IMO. Maybe many OLs are afforded such luxuries (back making them look great) but it just seems AP has been showing great vision and cuts, making the most of what he has.  If I am way off base, at least he is doing it better than our fleet of backs over the recent years.

 

Let's not be subtle about it. Without AP, we're 0-5 and the run game is 32nd in the league. A complete and utter dumpster fire. His vision and jump cuts are still tops in the league. He's still fast enough. He is a completely animal with the ball in his hand. Everyone on the damn team should look at how hard he plays and try to emulate that. He's still one of the best RB's in the league, and if we blocked the run better, he's probably top 5 in yards.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

Gruden's coaching at the end of the first half was downright incompetent. Knowing that a FG is likely best outcome, you cannot call any play that has possibility to lose yardage on 1st down. Even sacrificing clock for yardage on a run would have been reasonable. 

 

The defensive strategy of rushing 4 clearly didn't work for final 2 series. Manusky must have been in a coma. If you're gonna rush 4 the coverage scheme cannot allow the type of open receivers Carolina had. Finally, on 4th down they pressured Cam and he folded, as Cam does. 

 

All in all, impressed with AP. D line did a good enough job and Norman kinda had a good game, huge peanut punch. 

 

I have some issues with this post. 

 

First of all...every play ever designed can become a disaster very quickly. I've watched countless Redskins games where chip-shot FG range quickly devolved due to a holding call on a running play. Secondly, we can't have it both ways...we can't want Gruden to "step on their throats" and then sporadically, in hindsight, say that we were way too aggressive. That end-of-the-half was finally managed perfectly by Gruden...his 14-year veteran QB and his OL with 3 fringe Pro Bowlers are what failed us on that drive. 

 

I agree with your defensive assessment to a T. We seemed happy to guide the Panthers down the field 12-15 yards at a time until we were very backed up. Maybe this will introduce Manusky to a more aggressive blend of calls? 

 

I also loved the Josh Jab! 

 

 

[MartinC]

15 hours ago, SAli457180 said:

 

Lawrence and their DL is going to feast.  They're going to stack the box against AP and force Smith and the WRs to beat them deep.  Pretty simple gameplan for them

 

Which will be exactly the same game plan we use against them. Stop Elliott, keep Dak in the pocket and challenge him to beat us with his arm not his legs. Believe it or not we have better weapons at the skill positions than they do - their leading receiver by far is Beasley.

 

 

[Morneblade]

20 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Which will be exactly the same game plan we use against them. Stop Elliott, keep Dak in the pocket and challenge him to beat us with his arm not his legs. Believe it or not we have better weapons at the skill positions than they do - their leading receiver by far is Beasley.

 

 

 

Ours is Chris Thompson for receptions, or Reed for yards. I don't think we get to brag much about how good our weapons are. We're better at TE, and Cole Beasley is likely better than anyone we have. And they have Zeke, who I think is a bigger threat out of the backfield than Thompson.

 

I don't see us having any real advantage.

[Stefanskins]

21 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

I will take what Mark Rypien did from 89 to 91 over any 3 years you wish to choose from Cousins. 2 Pro Bowls and one Super Bowl MVP. Looking at passing yards and completion percentages is as meaningless as wins and losses - different eras, systems and play calling.

 

Ryp might be the best deep ball thrower I have seen in a Redskins uniform.

I think without a doubt Ryp was the best deep ball thrower I have seen in a Redskins uniform

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, Stefanskins said:

I think without a doubt Ryp was the best deep ball thrower I have seen in a Redskins uniform

 

I think you have to go back to Jurgenson to find a guy that could throw deep like Rypen. But he wasn't so good with short and medium range passes. There was a reason we called him "Duck".

[MartinC]

41 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Ours is Chris Thompson for receptions, or Reed for yards. I don't think we get to brag much about how good our weapons are. We're better at TE, and Cole Beasley is likely better than anyone we have. And they have Zeke, who I think is a bigger threat out of the backfield than Thompson.

 

I don't see us having any real advantage.

 

I will take Crowder and Beasley as pretty much a wash. Reed and Davis are MUCH better than anything they have at TE and Richardson is better than any other receiver they have.

 

Elliott IS their offense (and Dak when he gets outside the pocket or uses his legs on read option). I would scheme to take him away and almost dare them to beat us with other players.

 

If we can pass protect we will beat them. If.

[Morneblade]

35 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I will take Crowder and Beasley as pretty much a wash. Reed and Davis are MUCH better than anything they have at TE and Richardson is better than any other receiver they have.

 

Elliott IS their offense (and Dak when he gets outside the pocket or uses his legs on read option). I would scheme to take him away and almost dare them to beat us with other players.

 

If we can pass protect we will beat them. If.

 

I'm not that high on Richardson. I think Beasley is better than Richardson.

 

If we can run block we can beat them. It doesn't matter what Alex does, or doesn't do, it's all about AP with the team the way it is right now. If he goes off, I think we win. If not, we really don't have any chance.

[RandyHolt]

On D I think first priority is to stack the box to stop Zeke.  Force Dak to beat us with a WR group so weak that it rivals our own.

 

And then on O, dink and dunk and feed AP. We do not alter the plan!

 

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, RandyHolt said:

On D I think first priority is to stack the box to stop Zeke.  Force Dak to beat us with a WR group so weak that it rivals our own.

 

And then on O, dink and dunk and feed AP. We do not alter the plan!

 

 

Oh, I agree. You have to stop Zeke. On the flip side, they have to stop AP. Same gameplan for both teams. The big issue is Dak. Alex, so far hasn't done much with his feet. Dak has, and that makes this a much tougher matchup. Basically, all Dallas has to do is stop the run, and play zone. Alex hasn't done much with his legs this year, and if I was Dallas, I wouldn't worry so much about him. Dak is another story. We're going to need a spy for him. I don't think Dallas needs to spy Alex.

 

And it's not that Alex can't demand one, it's that we haven't really schemed it. Not much RPO. No RO, not many boots. We need to do more of this.

 

What I'm worried about is getting away from AP. I don't see Jay sticking with him consistently. I can see getting a couple bad runs in a row and Jay getting pass happy. I don't see Dallas getting away from Zeke as quickly.

[Destino]

If the Redskins beat the Cowboys (and the Giants) I think they'll do it the same way they've earned their other three wins.  They need to finish the first half with a lead.  These are the scores at half time of every Redskins win this season:  21-0, 28-10, 17-6.  The Redskins have been outscored in the 2nd half of every game, which isn't surprising given that they've yet to score more than 6 points in the second half of any game this season.  The best chance to beat the Cowboys and Giants is to force Dak and Eli to throw it.  Holding a two score lead in the second half helps, because the opponent will not want to run the ball too much and risk shortening the game.  

 

 

If Alex Smith is forced to pass because the Redskins fall behind... that's when the Redskins are in trouble.  The passing game this season just hasn't shown the ability to score points when the other team knows they have to push the ball downfield.  The redskins are at their best when the running game is working and Alex Smith can be opportunistic on throws down field.