Guardian: State attorney general to release 884-page report detailing decades of sexual abuse and cover-ups by the church

[Elessar78]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/11/pennsylvania-catholic-church-abuse-allegations-report

 

Mark Rozzi can remember the feeling of the tall grass brushing against his bare legs on the day he and a close friend desperately ran out of the rectory in Hyde Park, Pennsylvania.

 

Rozzi, who was 13 at the time, had just been raped by his priest, the Rev Edward Graff, and remembers thinking in that moment, as he ran through a field, that he would take his terrible new secret to his grave.

 

When he got home and was peppered with questions by his mother – a Sicilian from Messina who sensed something was wrong – he lied and said Graff had dropped his towel in front of the boys. He did not tell her about the things he came to understand as an adult – that Graff had groomed him for months, by secretly talking to him about sex, plying him with alcohol and showing him pornography. It had all culminated in his vicious rape by Graff in a shower, where Rozzi can still recall staring at the tiles and wondering if he should stay or run.

 

Rozzi did not, in the end, take his secret to his grave, and nor did hundreds of other victims.

 

This month, the state attorney general in Pennsylvania is expected to release an 884-page report that will detail decades of clerical sexual abuse and cover-ups by the Roman Catholic church in six of Pennsylvania’s eight Catholic dioceses. The report has not yet been made public, but has been shared with the bishops in the six dioceses: Allentown, Erie, Greensburg, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh and Scranton.

[Renegade7]

I haven't seen spotlight yet, so I may be asking question that's already been answered, but how is this this widespread without a substantial number of these preists in jail?  That's a near 900 page document covering only one state.  Are you kidding me?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

I haven't seen spotlight yet, so I may be asking question that's already been answered, but how is this this widespread without a substantial number of these preists in jail?  That's a near 900 page document covering only one state.  Are you kidding me?

 

What perplexes me is how this is so widespread.  I don't want to understand it, but I'd be interested in what causes this behavior amongst this group of men. 

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

What perplexes me is how this is so widespread.  I don't want to understand it, but I'd be interested in what causes this behavior amongst this group of men. 

I don't know if cause will help here, religion doesn't make you a pedophile, this is as bad as it is because they are getting away with it.  It's getting a gun and doing mass murder level easy, expect in this case the shooter typically gets transfered.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I don't know if cause will help here, religion doesn't make you a pedophile, this is as bad as it is because they are getting away with it.  It's getting a gun and doing mass murder level easy, expect in this case the shooter typically gets transfered.

I totally get that.  It makes me wonder though if pedophiles purposely choose this 'calling' as a means for easy access for this type of wrongdoing.  But then it's constantly covered up by the powers that be. 

[Zguy28]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I totally get that.  It makes me wonder though if pedophiles purposely choose this 'calling' as a means for easy access for this type of wrongdoing.  But then it's constantly covered up by the powers that be. 

It could be that, or men who are attracted to perverse sins like pedophilia and rape go into it seeking an escape or refuge in celibacy, but soon realize that its not, and in fact its a ripe environment.

[Riggo-toni]

Yeah, I am with ZGuy on this one. People who are deeply religious but have inescapable perversions choose the priesthood hoping it will cure them, but instead find themselves with easier targets.

[Renegade7]

53 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I totally get that.  It makes me wonder though if pedophiles purposely choose this 'calling' as a means for easy access for this type of wrongdoing.  But then it's constantly covered up by the powers that be. 

We live in a world where that is a reasonable question. 

 

My response to that is people don't join the military because of the low conviction rate in regards to rape and wanting to be in an environment ripe for the picking.  It's not enforced well enough or treated with the level of severity it deserves, so it happens more then say a public school or a burger king.  You rape Molly the cashier in the walk in fridge, you won't get as far as some of these folks who we worship with or still call heroes.

 

I'm sorry if I offended any military members bringing that up, but in all seriousness, if you are in the military and out here raping people, you are no hero to me.

43 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

It could be that, or men who are attracted to perverse sins like pedophilia and rape go into it seeking an escape or refuge in celibacy, but soon realize that its not, and in fact its a ripe environment.

Ya, I can't with a straight face type that I believe people join the church because its such a target rich environment.  We've sunk low as a species, but I don't know if we've sunk that low (maybe an exception here and there, but not the rule)

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I totally get that.  It makes me wonder though if pedophiles purposely choose this 'calling' as a means for easy access for this type of wrongdoing.  But then it's constantly covered up by the powers that be. 

 

I think that's exactly what it is

[Renegade7]

32 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I think that's exactly what it is

I forget how cynical you are sometimes.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

39 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I forget how cynical you are sometimes.

What other logical reasons are there for the amount that this happens in these churches vs. others?

 

I’m not saying there aren’t any.  It just makes sense that folks with this type of ‘disease’ would seek opportunities to prey. 

[zoony]

So yah, church might have a problem here.

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What other logical reasons are there for the amount that this happens in these churches vs. others?

 

I’m not saying there aren’t any.  It just makes sense that folks with this type of ‘disease’ would seek opportunities to prey. 

 

I just told you why there's so many of them, they don't get charged or fired, they get transferred. 

 

These cases typical stretch out over decades the number of victims is staggering.  I want to see the ratio of priests to victims and then ratio of priests to individual cases (as the ones that aren't stopped don't stop).  The rape situation is out of control in College Campuses and the Military, no way in hell would in insinuate that a majority of the perpetrators went to college or the military just to rape people. 

 

Saying most of the priests that joined the church and raping kids did so just so they can rape kids is a statement I don't think you quite realize the gravity of.  You can't just throw that out there without facts to back it for multiple reasons.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Renegade7

[Busch1724]

One aspect of this, and I'm guilty of this, is that for many years there have been jokes about stuff like this within the church. We've all probably told jokes about Catholic priests and kids, specifically boys. Yet as a society we never did enough or anything about it. Now I'm not pinning this on Catholics specifically, but no doubt there are issues within the church of a systematic cover-up. It's great something is being done about it and has reached this kind of level in the courts. Why not sooner? 

[mcsluggo]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I just told you why there's so many of them, they don't get charged or fired, they get transferred. 

 

These cases typical stretch out over decades the number of victims is staggering.  I want to see the ratio of priests to victims and then ratio of priests to individual cases (as the ones that aren't stopped don't stop).  The rape situation is out of control in College Campuses and the Military, no way in hell would in insinuate that a majority of the perpetrators went to college or the military just to rape people. 

 

Saying most of the priests that joined the church and raping kids did so just so they can rape kids is a statement I don't think you quite realize the gravity of.  You can't just throw that out there without facts to back it for multiple reasons.

 

i'd like to see a ratio of convicted priests to priests overall, as compared to convicted pedophile men v some suitable "potential pedephile men" grouping.

 

 

saying there is a 900 page document about this subject... doesn't actually give ANY information.    

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Saying most of the priests that joined the church and raping kids did so just so they can rape kids is a statement I don't think you quite realize the gravity of.  You can't just throw that out there without facts to back it for multiple reasons.

But I never said that.  I also don’t think that even if I did it has much gravity.  I’m a regular dude on the internet.

 

I’m simply curious if this environment that fosters this behavior appeals to a bad subset of people who might not otherwise choose this route.

 

 

[Renegade7]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But I never said that.  I also don’t think that even if I did it has much gravity.  I’m a regular dude on the internet.

 

I’m simply curious if this environment that fosters this behavior appeals to a bad subset of people who might not otherwise choose this route.

 

 

It's okay, from my standpoint, you asked outloud "if pedophiles purposely choose this 'calling' as a means for easy access for this type of wrongdoing", Llveron said yes, I called him cynical, then you asked me why I'm telling you you're playing with fire on that one.  Saying you're one guy on the Internet is like saying your vote doesn't count, it does, it adds up. 

 

You're curiosity is not invalid, what I'm saying is that you are indirectly inferring what I'm saying I want more stats on before even thinking of climbing up that tree.  McSluggo has a point that we need to know the ratio of priests doing this to those that aren't (How many priests are dirty priests and how many good ones knew?).  If we head into that territory, we have to make sure we have our facts straight.  This is a very sensitive issue that means different things to different people.

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I forget how cynical you are sometimes.

 

If it makes any difference I really don't mean to be. However, we are talking about people that abuse children. Do I really have to be cynical to believe that someone who could abuse a child would also take advantage of people's faith in order to do so? I dont really see it as much of a stretch. 

 

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

It's okay, from my standpoint, you asked outloud "if pedophiles purposely choose this 'calling' as a means for easy access for this type of wrongdoing", Llveron said yes, I called him cynical, then you asked me why I'm telling you you're playing with fire on that one.  Saying you're one guy on the Internet is like saying your vote doesn't count, it does, it adds up. 

 

You're curiosity is not invalid, what I'm saying is that you are indirectly inferring what I'm saying I want more stats on before even thinking of climbing up that tree.  McSluggo has a point that we need to know the ratio of priests doing this to those that aren't (How many priests are dirty priests and how many good ones knew?).  If we head into that territory, we have to make sure we have our facts straight.  This is a very sensitive issue that means different things to different people.

 

Dude, we are allowed to openly wonder without meeting your criteria first. 

[Renegade7]

14 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

If it makes any difference I really don't mean to be. However, we are talking about people that abuse children. Do I really have to be cynical to believe that someone who could abuse a child would also take advantage of people's faith in order to do so? I dont really see it as much of a stretch. 

 

Nah, all things considered, I don't blame you or anyone for feeling a certain way towards this issue.  Way I took this convo was heading the direction of saying there were people who were joining the church just to rape kids or that was a high percentage.  I won't go there yet, I'll take my time to get all the info, because in my head I know ya'll right, but would have a profound effect on me if that's common, like majority common, so I can't just jump into that one.

 

Quote

 

Dude, we are allowed to openly wonder without meeting your criteria first. 

 

I don't understand why anyone of you keep thinking that's why I'm saying when I say stuff like that, like I'm trying to control ya'll.  I have my feelings about this one, too, but I've also seen enough of these threads, this one could get ugly fast and I feel better getting that off my chest to see what happens then do nothing.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Renegade7

[China]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

So yah, church might have a problem here.

 

[Destino]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

I think that's exactly what it is

Is that even a question at this point?  Abusers of all sorts seek out positions that facilitate them.  If they attain such a position their list of victims quickly grows.  The question at this point should be why do we still wait for victims?  You know how everyone on the entire planet assumes that crime is major danger when entering a bad neighborhood?  People should feel like that, about people with power or representatives of powerful organizations.  They're dangerous. 

[DogofWar1]

These men of the cloth should be well acquainted with the solution Matthew 5:30 suggests.

[TheGreatBuzz]

So I went looking for a funny meme to put here.  Searched "****ed by priest" and apparently there is a whole porn niche for that.  So Im gonna be busy for a bit.  Lets see what y'all find.

 

 

Edited for profanity.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2018 by TheGreatBuzz

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Searched "****ed by priest" and apparently there is a whole porn niche for that.  So Im gonna be busy for a bit.

Sacks ‘n’ Stuff successfully defends his Taken out of context thread championship!!! SACKS ‘N’’ STUFF HAS DONE IT AGAIN!!!

[dfitzo53]

Profanity in that pic though Buzz.