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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?


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This defensive front was smothering QBs in the first four games of the season. This was clearly a result of injuries, IMO.

Just finished watching the KC game (week 4). Allen was a man child.

 

BTW, who is the starting three. I know its Allen and Payne. But who's the other end? Is it Ionnidis?

 

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51 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

 

 

BTW, who is the starting three. I know its Allen and Payne. But who's the other end? Is it Ionnidis?

 

 

I hope so.  Brian Mitchell seems to think it will be Ioannidis also.

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PFF knows. 

 

NFL pass-rush rankings: All 32 team's entering 2018

 

6. WASHINGTON REDSKINS

PROJECTED STARTING LINEUP:

Edge Defender: Ryan Kerrigan, 85.6 overall grade
Defensive Interior: Jonathan Allen, 81.3
Defensive Interior: Matt Ioannidis, 79.2
Edge Defender: Preston Smith, 76.0
Key Rotational Player: Da’Ron Payne, 87.7* (2017 college grade), Pernell McPhee, 79.9

Pressure Percentage as a team, 2017: 37.9% (8th)

 

Of the team’s in our top six, this is the one that I expect will surprise people the most, and that’s because the Redskins pass-rush was quietly one of the best in the NFL last season. Kerrigan produced 18 sacks and added four hits and 42 hurries, but with the Redskins struggling in general, it felt like his big performance didn’t get the credit it deserved, despite making the Pro Bowl. Where the Redskins can really impress people this season though is on the defensive interior. Ioannidis quietly produced the 14th-highest graded pass-rush grade among interior defenders last season, while the rising second-year star in Allen was on course to also rank inside the top 20 before injuries ruined his first season in the NFL.

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Anyone else notice Jonathon Allen jerseys have been half off on nfl shop pretty much the whole offseason?  Usually they slash the price like that when they part ways with a player, but you can get an Allen jersey for the same price as a cousins, rg3, or matt Jones jersey.  Did they order too many after the draft last year and need to unload?  Strange.

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Nice to see pff giving the skins some credit where most of the pundits wait for their record to improve before acknowledging a team has done well acquiring talent.

 

Skins didn't have any starters in the 25 and under team in ESPN, but j Allen was a runner up.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24019013/best-nfl-starting-lineup-age-25-picks-offense-defense

 

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1 hour ago, KillBill26 said:

Anyone else notice Jonathon Allen jerseys have been half off on nfl shop pretty much the whole offseason?  Usually they slash the price like that when they part ways with a player, but you can get an Allen jersey for the same price as a cousins, rg3, or matt Jones jersey.  Did they order too many after the draft last year and need to unload?  Strange.

 

 

He switched his number from 95 to 93.  Payne now wears 95 so the Payne #95 and Allen # 93 are full price.  LAST years Allen # 95 is discounted. 

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1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

He switched his number from 95 to 93.  Payne now wears 95 so the Payne #95 and Allen # 93 are full price.  LAST years Allen # 95 is discounted. 

Thanks ovc, didn't realize that.  Makes sense now.  

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6 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Thanks ovc, didn't realize that.  Makes sense now.  

 

 

I didnt either til I went on the site and almost ordered one.  Then it clicked that it was #95 and I had seen Payne wearing the #95 in his promo shoots.  

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15 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I didnt either til I went on the site and almost ordered one.  Then it clicked that it was #95 and I had seen Payne wearing the #95 in his promo shoots.  

I'm surprised Snyder doesn't make the player buy all the remaining jerseys in stock at full price before he allows them to change numbers.  

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8 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

I'm surprised Snyder doesn't make the player buy all the remaining jerseys in stock at full price before he allows them to change numbers.  

 

 

I don't think it has anything to do with Snyder, it would be Nike that would have a problem with it.  Snyder probably likes it because it means people are going to now buy up the 95's on the cheap for those trying to save money, or that arent aware of the change, and people are also going to buy up the 93s.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Did Gruden just say that Stacy McGee could miss the regular season?  Allen missed the bulk of last year and dropped in the draft, at least partially, secondary to health concerns. Taylor will likely be out for the season soon, as per the usual.

 

I love Payne, but he looked readily moveable with double teams and combo blocks on tape. I think he looks better as a DE or pass rushing nose.  I still don't think we have a traditional run stuffing nose, unless you count Settle, who is probably 2 years away from having an NFL body.

 

For us to be a top DL, it is really going to take both health luck, excellent play from a rookie who is being counted on to take major snaps, and significant progress from our other young players. Everything would have to come together just right for us to have a dominant defense, and I actually think the odds are higher that we have an injury or two, a disappointment or two, and aren't as good as everyone is expecting. 

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On 7/28/2018 at 9:20 AM, Anselmheifer said:

Everything would have to come together just right for us to have a dominant defense, and I actually think the odds are higher that we have an injury or two, a disappointment or two, and aren't as good as everyone is expecting. 

 

2 seasons ago our interior D-Line was Ziggy Hood, Kedric Golston, and Cullen Jenkins along with one of the worst defenses in NFL history. 

 

The bar is very low here. 

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Listening to some of Jay's comments it makes you think Settle plays nose and Payne all over the line?   Wonder if they envision Payne playing a bunch of LDE?  That was where McGee mostly played last year.  Clearly they value running stuffing out of that spot which is typically the strong side of the formation.

 

I saw somewhere that the Redskins worst run defense weakness wasn't actually up the gut last year but outside zone.  They weren't really good at anything run stuffing wise but outside zone was the biggest weakness.

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Well, if everyone stays pretty healthy, this might be a really good group. I wasn't much of a fan of the McGee pickup last year, so I'd like to see our young guys out there. I really want o see what Phil Taylor can do when healthy. I'm not expecting him to be what he was 5 years ago, but I think he could be solid in the middle, and that's gonna help our depth, at least. And..................I suppose I should add, for the like seemingly 10th consecutive year (it feels like it, anyway), I would like to switch back to the 4-3. :deadhorse:

 

Seriously, I think we could be lights out on D if we ran that.

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21 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Well, if everyone stays pretty healthy, this might be a really good group. I wasn't much of a fan of the McGee pickup last year, so I'd like to see our young guys out there. I really want o see what Phil Taylor can do when healthy. I'm not expecting him to be what he was 5 years ago, but I think he could be solid in the middle, and that's gonna help our depth, at least. And..................I suppose I should add, for the like seemingly 10th consecutive year (it feels like it, anyway), I would like to switch back to the 4-3. :deadhorse:

 

Seriously, I think we could be lights out on D if we ran that.

 

If McGee is banged up wonder if Taylor beats him to the roster.  You put on obvious run downs, Taylor, Settle, Payne at least in theory is a formidable group

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32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If McGee is banged up wonder if Taylor beats him to the roster.  You put on obvious run downs, Taylor, Settle, Payne at least in theory is a formidable group

 

 

Maybe? I don't know. I'd like to see Phil healthy, just to see if he can get back and play. And then let the chips fall where they may. I was never sold on McGee though, tends to take plays off. So, it could happen I suppose.

 

Settle might need a year. He's a big kid I know, but from what I understand, he's not as strong as he needs to be, more of a penetrator, good feet. Depends on how you want to use him, I suppose. Taylor at his best, could do it all though. I don't think we'll get that guy back, but he still might have some good play in him.

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1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

I don't know much about Hogshaven but they had a nice little breakdown of each position based on the first 4 days of camp.

 

Full Article

https://www.hogshaven.com/2018/7/29/17627480/redskins-training-camp-offensive-breakdowns-who-stood-out-and-who-needs-to-improve

 

 

 

QB: It’s clear Jay Gruden is smitten with Alex Smith at QB. Gruden made his frustration loud and clear during camp last year with Kirk Cousins checking down most of practice, to which #8 basically said tough luck-that’s how I work. As the 2017 season continued, Gruden reportedly bristled more and more at the thought of paying Cousins $25m/year. Smith is great on the move; he squares his shoulders on each and every throw, sets his feet like clockwork, and he possesses underrated speed and athletic ability. He gets to the edge quickly and decisively. As a result, he’s going to be great off-schedule. He has a slow throwing motion, but the ball hops off his hand and he throws some absolute ropes.

 

 

This is interesting. From what I've seen and heard, Smith is not a accurate passer on the move. Unless, in these cases he is resetting (and it seems he might be, but I'm not certain) as opposed to throwing on the run. I do think Smith has a underrated arm. One thing I also noticed watching some film on his deep balls, is that don't have much air. He might not have the best arm in the league, but I don't think he's far from that. I've seen some 40 yard lazer beams come off his hand.

 

Edit: I think Smith has a better arm than Cousins. Cousins has a pretty average NFL arm. Smith I think has a well above average/elite NFL arm.

Edited by Morneblade
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1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Maybe? I don't know. I'd like to see Phil healthy, just to see if he can get back and play. And then let the chips fall where they may. I was never sold on McGee though, tends to take plays off. So, it could happen I suppose.

 

Settle might need a year. He's a big kid I know, but from what I understand, he's not as strong as he needs to be, more of a penetrator, good feet. Depends on how you want to use him, I suppose. Taylor at his best, could do it all though. I don't think we'll get that guy back, but he still might have some good play in him.

 

Agreed about Settle. It's almost like his game doesn't match his size. He certainly has the ability to disrupt and get in the backfield and I trust that Tomsula will get the best out of him.

 

It's tough to look past Phil's injury history and maybe it's wrong to put too much weight on how good he looked in camp/pre-season last year, but IF he is healthy and IF he is still a wall, I see no reason why McGee or Hood should have a roster spot over him. I appreciate Hood being a leader, I really do, but for two years running he's been the worst-rated DT in the league. Let's hire him as Tomsula's assistant, but I don't want to see him suiting up for this team.

Edited by CTskin
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8 minutes ago, CTskin said:

 

Agreed about Settle. It's almost like his game doesn't match his size. He certainly has the ability to disrupt and get in the backfield and I trust that Tomsula will get the best out of him.

 

It's tough to look past Phil's injury history and maybe it's wrong to put too much weight on how good he looked in camp/pre-season last year, but IF he is healthy and IF he is still a wall, I see no reason why McGee or Hood should have a roster spot over him. I appreciate Hood being a leader, I really do, but for two years running he's been the worst-rated DT in the league. Let's hire him as Tomsula's assistant, but I don't want to see him suiting up for this team.

 

Before I get to anything else, I'll just say that Hood has been playing out of position. he's a 3-4 DE, not a NT. That being said, I would not mind seeing him go, as it would mean we're better off than we have been. I'm not even sure why he was playing there, unless we simply didn't have anyone better. And that ain't good.

 

As to Phil, yeah.............................. the injury history is long and ugly. I don't think you can count him to start for 16 games, or even be a high rotation guy. At least I don't think I could. As much as I like him, that's taking a big chance. McGee gets nicked a lot too, but when Phil goes down, it's bigtime. It's not out 2-3 with an ankle, it's tearing stuff or blowing knees out.

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Listening to some of Jay's comments it makes you think Settle plays nose and Payne all over the line?   Wonder if they envision Payne playing a bunch of LDE?  That was where McGee mostly played last year.  Clearly they value running stuffing out of that spot which is typically the strong side of the formation.

 

I saw somewhere that the Redskins worst run defense weakness wasn't actually up the gut last year but outside zone.  They weren't really good at anything run stuffing wise but outside zone was the biggest weakness.

Payne has the athletic numbers to play end in a 30. If Phil Taylor is healthy and/or Settle is way ahead of the curve, this would allow us to keep both Taylor and Settle on the 53 while allowing us to only have 4 or 5 active defensive linemen on game day with every DL position being 2-deep. Given the fact that Smith or Kerrigan play DE when we go 40 (last year some 60% of the time), we usually only have two guys listed as DLs, this would give us flexibility.

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When it comes to D Payne know his ankle is bruised or strained or sprained, I'm sure he will, be fine especially since he didn't even want to stop practicing but they made him. I'm so psyched hearing the reports of him giving Scherff all he could handle and just exploding during camp. 

 

I really hope to  see him play soon

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I thought Taylor looked great at the beginning of last year. To my eye, he was our best player on the DL prior to his injury. That being said, I still have a hard time justifying cutting or not signing any player with long term potential, in order to make room for Taylor. 

 

I may may be one of a few, but I’d really like to see an old school Ravens/Buccaneers quality defense and I don’t think we are that far away. I would sign Hankins. I think his addition brings us close to that level. Probably one very good pass rusher shy, but close. I think he could take us from a very good defense, to a dominant defense. 

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https://www.hogshaven.com/2018/7/30/17631546/redskins-training-camp-defensive-breakdowns-who-stood-out-and-who-needs-to-improve

 

DL: This unit is obviously what has fans buzzing the most, as it’s a unit loaded with both NFL Draft capital and young talent. I’m here to report that you all should remain excited, but also be patient and allow this unit to develop. One thing that struck me watching this unit in individual practice, 1v1s, and team work, is the sheer size of these men. Jonathan Allen is a tank, weighing in at over 290 lbs, but he looks like a child next to newcomer Da’Ron Payne. Fellow rookie Tim Settle is massive, and yet is one of the quickest defensive lineman on the team. Phil Taylor is his normal large self and consistently eats up double-teams and holds his ground. Matt Ioannidis, who looks like the runt of the group and weighs over 300 pounds, looks quick and was praised on multiple occasions by Greg Manusky and Jim Tomsula.

 

While Allen and Payne get all the fanfare right now because they were first round picks out of a decent college program called Alabama, Ioannidis might be the player the coaches are most excited about. The third-year Temple product is great with his hands, keeping linemen off his pads consistently and keeping his balance on some pretty nifty moves, including a spin-move the team has dubbed the ‘ice-pick.’ Jonathan Allen is already quietly one of the better interior defensive lineman in the league and he is trending in the right direction. Tomsula used him as the example on a plethora of occasions, which is a testament to the second-year player’s attention to detail and overall ability.

 
Payne certainly held his blocks using his massive size, but was, more importantly in my opinion, praised by his teammates and coaches for his smarts/knowing where he needed to be on any given play (until he heard some jeers for going down with an injury). Ziggy Hood is still the grizzled vet of this group, and he could often be seen leading his young counterparts throughout the day. Anthony Lanier spent time with the second unit and looks stronger and more confident; though, again, it’s tough to gather much from half-contact drills in practice. Overall, this group is incredibly talented and has the best defensive-line coach in the league molding them. That’s pretty exciting.

 

 

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