Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

[Skinsinparadise]

Ball control, run the ball (keep the defense fresh and off the field and explosive opponent's offenses off the field) and stop the run.  It's not sexy but i still think its the way to win in the NFL.   It's the way, they upset the Rams last year.  Conversely, it was the way the Giants knocked the Redskins out of the playoffs in 2016 - big time of possession gaps in both games.  

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/37138/after-passing-first-test-redskins-defense-faces-qb-gauntlet

Their ball-control offense. The defense was helped by what the offense did: Control the ball for 38 minutes, eight seconds. The Redskins rushed for 182 yards and, perhaps, discovered an identity -- and that should have a trickle-down effect.

“Explosive to me is ball control, having big-play ability, of course, but also expressing your will on the defense,” Redskins coach Jay Gruden said in July. “Hopefully with the power we now have at running back and the tight ends able to block, I think we can control the line of scrimmage. So explosive might mean control the ball and score 20 points.”

Of the 17 teams that finished with an edge in time of possession last season, 12 won at least nine games. Of the top five teams in time of possession, four had defenses that ranked in the top five in yards allowed per game, and the other ranked seventh. And four of those teams ranked among the top seven in points allowed.

[Sandy Monk]

I don't remember seeing this posted, and it sure is interesting, at least to me.

 

 

[Warhead36]

Yeah the gameplan was fine. Arizona outside of Fitzgerald(and I guess Johnson)don't really have great receiving threats. If they're keeping that many guys to block, better to just flood the secondary with DBs. Bradford won't kill you downfield throwing to one talented albeit older WR and a bunch of tomato cans.

[markmills67]

Jonathan Hankins gone to the Raiders, I still think we missed a trick not signing him and releasing Hood.

 

HTTR 

[XxSpearheadxX]

I still think that the best strategy for our defensive front to focus on is

 

 

Make'em say UNNNGGGH UNNNNNMGGGGH NAH NAH NAH NAH. 

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, markmills67 said:

Jonathan Hankins gone to the Raiders, I still think we missed a trick not signing him and releasing Hood.

 

HTTR 

 

Plus one. I love Payne. But, what we should have done is sign Hankins, go into the draft looking for BPA and trade up one slot for Josh Rosen when he fell that far. Our QB is 34 years old. 

[Sandy Monk]

Hindsight is such fun. 

[dyst]

Small sample size but few plays  I saw, Pernell got some pressure.

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, markmills67 said:

Jonathan Hankins gone to the Raiders, I still think we missed a trick not signing him and releasing Hood.

 

HTTR 

Agreed, same way i wish we flipped Preston for Mack, but its over now.  I like the idea of Preston not costing as much and still having that potential and seeing what we get from Settle.  Down the road, I expect us to draft a third Dlinemen in the 1st if Settle doesn't take over that role.  It's clear if we believe we can pressure with 3 or 4, we're going to take it, which I'm fine with, getting pressure with less players is a good thing.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Plus one. I love Payne. But, what we should have done is sign Hankins, go into the draft looking for BPA and trade up one slot for Josh Rosen when he fell that far. Our QB is 34 years old. 

I'm so glad we didn't do that. Maybe move up for Fitz, but Payne is going to change games for us and our front 7 is fantastic. 

[Morneblade]

6 hours ago, markmills67 said:

Jonathan Hankins gone to the Raiders, I still think we missed a trick not signing him and releasing Hood.

 

HTTR 

 

Hood is a DE, Hankins is a NT. Not really the same position.

 

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Agreed, same way i wish we flipped Preston for Mack, but its over now.  I like the idea of Preston not costing as much and still having that potential and seeing what we get from Settle.  Down the road, I expect us to draft a third Dlinemen in the 1st if Settle doesn't take over that role.  It's clear if we believe we can pressure with 3 or 4, we're going to take it, which I'm fine with, getting pressure with less players is a good thing.

 

What role is Settle supposed to take? Paynes? Allens? Ioannidis? Because, that is everyone. Went spent 2 firsts already, and Ioannidis looks like a steal.

[98ORAKPO98]

2 hours ago, dyst said:

Small sample size but few plays  I saw, Pernell got some pressure.

Pernell was a beast getting lots of pressures and QB hits in his limited playing time, he pressured Bradford into an early throw on the Dunbar pick as well. 

[98ORAKPO98]

 

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Hood is a DE, Hankins is a NT. Not really the same position.

 

 

What role is Settle supposed to take? Paynes? Allens? Ioannidis? Because, that is everyone. Went spent 2 firsts already, and Ioannidis looks like a steal.

Ioannidis, have bad feeling we lose him to free agency in 2020. Hankins can play 3-4 DE as well:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/riggosrag.com/2018/03/26/redskins-comparing-johnathan-hankins-to-the-top-nose-tackles-in-the-2018-nfl-draft/amp/2/

 

Quote

Given that Tomsula is arguably the best defensive line coach in football, Hankins could continue to get better and become an elite level nose tackle. It also helps that Hankins can play the end position in the 3-4 defense as well, so he will be versatile across all defensive fronts.

 

Some places Hankins is listed as a DE.  Point is i see the commitment to using high draft picks on either line.  I may be wrong on having to use a first on a corner (watching Dunbar), so hoping we use 1st on a LG this offseason then if someone overpays Ioannidis leaves door open to having just as many high draft resources to dine as oline (draft a qb in 2021).  I'd rather sign a veteran WR to challenge as #1 if Doctson doesnt take over that role, WR's take longer to make an impact then linemen.

[Sandy Monk]

I'm interested in seeing how much Hankins' one year deal turns out to be. I had been growing more and more suspicious in Hankins not being worth his asking price. With our current starters and impressive depth, I like where we are at DL. 

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Ioannidis, have bad feeling we lose him to free agency in 2020. Hankins can play 3-4 DE as well:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/riggosrag.com/2018/03/26/redskins-comparing-johnathan-hankins-to-the-top-nose-tackles-in-the-2018-nfl-draft/amp/2/

 

 

Some places Hankins is listed as a DE.  Point is i see the commitment to using high draft picks on either line.  I may be wrong on having to use a first on a corner (watching Dunbar), so hoping we use 1st on a LG this offseason then if someone overpays Ioannidis leaves door open to having just as many high draft resources to dine as oline (draft a qb in 2021).  I'd rather sign a veteran WR to challenge as #1 if Doctson doesnt take over that role, WR's take longer to make an impact then linemen.

 

The title of the article you posted seems to disagree with you.

I think this is flawed logic. First, just because someone can do something, does not mean they do it well. As a for instance, Hood is a DE, BUT he can play NT. He just sucks at it. It's akin to moving Swearinger to CB. Put the guy that is great at something, where he is great at.

 

Second, you have a feeling we MIGHT loosing Io in 2020? Ok, but I'd honestly just wait to see how that unfolds.

 

As to LG, I agree with you, I think we need to throw serious sources at that position.

 

And honestly, we're going to need to start looking seriously at QB's in a couple years too.

[Koolblue13]

If we lose Iaon in 2020 that means he's been awesome for 2 full seasons for us and we can't pay him, because other guys are playing great and will also need to be paid, so we let him go and get comp picks for him. It also gives us 2 drafts to replace him without needing to use high picks. 

 

This is what good teams do to stay good, so I'm not sure what the problem is. 

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

The title of the article you posted seems to disagree with you.

I think this is flawed logic. First, just because someone can do something, does not mean they do it well. As a for instance, Hood is a DE, BUT he can play NT. He just sucks at it. It's akin to moving Swearinger to CB. Put the guy that is great at something, where he is great at.

 

Second, you have a feeling we MIGHT loosing Io in 2020? Ok, but I'd honestly just wait to see how that unfolds.

 

As to LG, I agree with you, I think we need to throw serious sources at that position.

 

And honestly, we're going to need to start looking seriously at QB's in a couple years too.

 

I mean, i wouldn't post that article if teams didn't feel Hankins plays 3-4 DE well, thats my point that he can.  Your examples don't match because Hankins doesnt suck at 3-4 DE, he's actually good at that, too.  Payne can play both, he's dangerous at both, though i think wed all rather have at NT.

 

The QB thing I'd only go one more offseason not addressing with a first round pick, and like i said, the Ioanidis thing is a feeling, same way i have bad feeling were going to lose Preston because we won't want to overpay him but someone will.  Its not like I'm saying we should draft a first round 3-4 DE instead of keeping him, jus what i would do if we lose him and Settle doesnt fill his spot adequately (think it would be awesome to have 3 first rounds on the dline to have for several years together)

[UK_HOG]

8 hours ago, Morneblade said:

What role is Settle supposed to take? Paynes? Allens? Ioannidis? Because, that is everyone. Went spent 2 firsts already, and Ioannidis looks like a steal.

 

Ioannidis does indeed look like a steal.

 

 

 

We need more than 3 starting calibre inside linemen and hopefully Settle develops like we hope he can.  This gives Manusky the chance to rotate the linemen and keep them fresh.

The snap count from week 1 shows no one was over worked and we still had a very good defensive line

Daron Payne: 30

Jonathan Allen: 28

Matt Ioannidis: 27

Ziggy Hood: 20

Tim Settle 8

 

The Cardinals had 55 snaps on offence.

 

 

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

19 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I mean, i wouldn't post that article if teams didn't feel Hankins plays 3-4 DE well, thats my point that he can.  Your examples don't match because Hankins doesnt suck at 3-4 DE, he's actually good at that, too.  Payne can play both, he's dangerous at both, though i think wed all rather have at NT.

 

The QB thing I'd only go one more offseason not addressing with a first round pick, and like i said, the Ioanidis thing is a feeling, same way i have bad feeling were going to lose Preston because we won't want to overpay him but someone will.  Its not like I'm saying we should draft a first round 3-4 DE instead of keeping him, jus what i would do if we lose him and Settle doesnt fill his spot adequately (think it would be awesome to have 3 first rounds on the dline to have for several years together)

 

You said it yourself. Payne can play DE, but we'd all rather have him at NT, because that is what he is. Same with Hankins. It would be MUCH smarter to go after a actual 3-4 DE. And honestly, I'm not worried about keeping Io.

 

As to Settle, he's also better NT and DE, but he has really good feet. But I don't see us loosing Io, so....

 

As to QB, start looking in 2020. Alex might still be playing at a high level, so we'll have to see how that plays out. He keeps himself in great shape, so he could go for another 5 years or so before starting to taper off.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

You said it yourself. Payne can play DE, but we'd all rather have him at NT, because that is what he is. Same with Hankins. It would be MUCH smarter to go after a actual 3-4 DE. And honestly, I'm not worried about keeping Io.

 

I don't think its that simple with Hankins.  He played both in college, much better pass rusher then traditional NT, and even listed as a DE on nfl.com.  I like the flexibility that we would've had moving those three around while bringing down an OLB for a 4 man front (which we seem to do a lot), but its over now so we can move on.

 

6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

As to Settle, he's also better NT and DE, but he has really good feet. But I don't see us loosing Io, so....

 

As to QB, start looking in 2020. Alex might still be playing at a high level, so we'll have to see how that plays out. He keeps himself in great shape, so he could go for another 5 years or so before starting to taper off.

 

Reason i say 2021 draft is because i don't want a Rookie QB sitting on the bench that long waiting for Alex Smith contract to expire if we draft one in 2020 offseason.  Also would like to draft another guard in first round, Alex is expected to be starter for at least 3 years with that extension.  You don't really want a first round rookie qb sitting on the bench for 3-4 years, do you?

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I don't think its that simple with Hankins.  He played both in college, much better pass rusher then traditional NT, and even listed as a DE on nfl.com.  I like the flexibility that we would've had moving those three around while bringing down an OLB for a 4 man front (which we seem to do a lot), but its over now so we can move on.

 

Payne and Settle also played both in college, but they are still better as a NT. Io can play NT as well. The fact of the matter is that we have a really good group of young talent up front, and I don't see the need to put a high price FA in the mix there at this time. As far as DL goes, I think we're good, and I'd rather use resources at glaring weaknesses, such as WR and LG.

 

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Reason i say 2021 draft is because i don't want a Rookie QB sitting on the bench that long waiting for Alex Smith contract to expire if we draft one in 2020 offseason.  Also would like to draft another guard in first round, Alex is expected to be starter for at least 3 years with that extension.  You don't really want a first round rookie qb sitting on the bench for 3-4 years, do you?

 

I never said draft one in 2020. I said start looking, dependent on how Alex is playing. If Alex goes into 2020 with one year left on his contract and he is not playing well, you draft one and let him sit for a year, unless he earns the job outright. If Alex looks great, you don't and reevaluate in 2021, and so on.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

12 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Plus one. I love Payne. But, what we should have done is sign Hankins, go into the draft looking for BPA and trade up one slot for Josh Rosen when he fell that far. Our QB is 34 years old. 

 

 

Rosen went 10th...we picked 13th. May have cost us more than realized to get him. Not saying we shouldn't have, but it was more than one spot. Plus we had zero clue Rosen would fall close enough to trade up for...nor what it would have taken to sign Hankins back in March/April. Giving up a lot of cap space (Hankins) and a lot of draft picks (Rosen) was a real possibility if the Skins did your proposed plan. Not to mention putting finding a solution to the QB problem on hold for several more months in hopes of being able to trade up a few spots to grab a QB they actually liked (they may not have liked Rosen enough to trade up for him, afterall). Unless you're a big Colt McCoy fan, I don't see any negatives to the route they choose to take.

[markmills67]

Anyone any idea what Hankins got for his 1 year deal?.

 

HTTR 

[Renegade7]

13 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Payne and Settle also played both in college, but they are still better as a NT. Io can play NT as well. The fact of the matter is that we have a really good group of young talent up front, and I don't see the need to put a high price FA in the mix there at this time. As far as DL goes, I think we're good, and I'd rather use resources at glaring weaknesses, such as WR and LG.

 

We don't have to agree on Hankins, but were talking hypotheticals in regards to 2020.  Want a first rounder on LG next draft, have to see in 2021.  Hopefully we don't have to use a first rounder on a WR, Dunbar is shocking me at CB, so my preference over next 2-3 years is first rounders in the lines and QB.

 

13 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I never said draft one in 2020. I said start looking, dependent on how Alex is playing. If Alex goes into 2020 with one year left on his contract and he is not playing well, you draft one and let him sit for a year, unless he earns the job outright. If Alex looks great, you don't and reevaluate in 2021, and so on.

 

Ya, when you said evaluate, i didn't know what you mean.  Alex Smith contract doesnt expire until 2023 offseason.

8 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Anyone any idea what Hankins got for his 1 year deal?.

 

HTTR 

Not yet, he was making $9 million a year with Colts before being released.