How do you see current society playing out? Headed towards Civil War Lite?

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

you aren't comparing kids today to their parents.... you are comparing kids today to their great-great-grand-parents.      

 

from the 1880s (ish) to 2016, for the most part the country got gradually less racist  (and from the outside at least, it looked like it was fairly monotonic-one-sided and continuous).   Since 2016, we have stepped back.   Maybe not to 1950 (yet), but we have stepped back.   in 2008, Racists may have had racist thoughts...but they KNEW that at the very least it wasn't socially-acceptable to out yourself, unless you had already confirmed that you were safe and around "friendlies".   Now....?   who gives a ****?   throw out all the racist **** you want, and if it triggers a few snowflakes?  then all the better!   woohaw!!!  

 

We were a completely different country in our great-great-grandparents day, our parents youth or their parents adult life is a better comparison as its closer to the modern setup of our country.  We didn't have a high-school enrollment rate similar to modern times until the 1930s, a conversation about school desegregation sounds a lot different in the time it happened versus late 1800s.

 

Racist thoughts are for the most part just that, thoughts.  How many laws do you see in place compared to 50-100 years ago specifically designed to support white nationalism?  We don't have more racists, they are more vocal again, there's a difference.  Them talking out loud is not the same as bringing Jim Crow back, I believe some of ya'll really aren't keeping racism today in context and no one is really showing me they are ahead of me in understanding this topic by throwing out current events because it typically isn't being done in a way to compare to how bad it really used to be. 

 

We are nowhere near that country anymore, saying we are right around the corner is hyperbole.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I hope this Renegade is as yummy as the first 6. ? ? 

 

 

Hopefully it never comes to this, but this are not normal times : )

 

 

[mcsluggo]

On 6/1/2018 at 1:55 PM, Renegade7 said:

 

If they were worse then their parents, there would be more black men getting hung from trees for whistling a a white woman, not nearly non-existent right now. 

 

We're not even close, so if they just want to march around with tiki torches, more power to them, the Internet will put the face out for everyone to see.  And no, I don't believe as a percentage of the country more people support white nationalism then 50 or 100 years ago.  These conversations about racism sometimes I feel take a turn without context of when it was truly out of control, that's not what's happening right now. 

 

I agree it is easier to find and feed those views via the Internet, but we didn't tear the country apart over Jim Crow, we passed the Civil Rights Act.

 

57 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

you aren't comparing kids today to their parents.... you are comparing kids today to their great-great-grand-parents.      

 

from the 1880s (ish) to 2016, for the most part the country got gradually less racist  (and from the outside at least, it looked like it was fairly monotonic-one-sided and continuous).   Since 2016, we have stepped back.   Maybe not to 1950 (yet), but we have stepped back.   in 2008, Racists may have had racist thoughts...but they KNEW that at the very least it wasn't socially-acceptable to out yourself, unless you had already confirmed that you were safe and around "friendlies".   Now....?   who gives a ****?   throw out all the racist **** you want, and if it triggers a few snowflakes?  then all the better!   woohaw!!!  

 

37 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

We were a completely different country in our great-great-grandparents day, our parents youth or their parents adult life is a better comparison as its closer to the modern setup of our country.  We didn't have a high-school enrollment rate similar to modern times until the 1930s, a conversation about school desegregation sounds a lot different in the time it happened versus late 1800s.

 

Racist thoughts are for the most part just that, thoughts.  How many laws do you see in place compared to 50-100 years ago specifically designed to support white nationalism?  We don't have more racists, they are more vocal again, there's a difference.  Them talking out loud is not the same as bringing Jim Crow back, I believe some of ya'll really aren't keeping racism today in context and no one is really showing me they are ahead of me in understanding this topic by throwing out current events because it typically isn't being done in a way to compare to how bad it really used to be. 

 

We are nowhere near that country anymore, saying we are right around the corner is hyperbole.

 

Again.... nobody (except you, when you when you retort against it) is asserting that race relations are worse now than they were under Jim Crow or Plessy v Ferguson ... nobody.   But that is a pretty damned low bar.   

 

what people have been saying is that it is that kids now witness more overt racism than their parents did (one generation).   That isn't hyperbole.     

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

what people have been saying is that it is that kids now witness more overt racism than their parents did (one generation).   That isn't hyperbole.     

 

That's not true. 

 

Are either of your parents minorities?  Have you asked them about this?  I have, this is coming from many people including my dad who was 8 years old when MLK was killed and saw DC tear itself apart with his own eyes.  He was 5 when we banned Racial Segregation, 3 when the Redskins were the last time to integrate, you really think everything went well and dandy overnight and what we're seeing today compares to the racial atmosphere of that time period?

 

Edit: I will not let this go because I know too many black people that won't even try because they, too, believe its just as bad as it was.  It's not, we are putting our own selves in neutral by so many of us thinking like that.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Renegade7

[TD_washingtonredskins]

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That's not true.  Are either of your parents minorities?  Have you asked them about this?  I have, this is coming from many people including my dad who was 8 years old when MLK was killed and saw DC tear itself apart with his own eyes.  He was 5 when we banned Racial Segregation, 3 when the Redskins were the last time to integrate, you really think everything went well and dandy overnight and what we're seeing today compares to the racial atmosphere of that time period?

You're comparing your kids to your parents' youth. What about yours? 

 

I think mcsluggo is correct...my kids (9 and 11) will grow up seeing more hateful things than I did. Not than my parents (who were 9 and 11 in 1959), but more than I did (who was 11 in 1988). 

[LD0506]

Well things have gotten uglier, I don't think anyone could argue that, but today we see it instantly online, millions get to form their own opinions and the blowback is usually widespread and substantial. Even in the '60s it was at a distance, a newspaper article or item on the evening news and easier to just dismiss and ignore. Today it travels at the speed of light, businesses have been forced to respond, people vote with their wallets and speak out, etc.

 

It's progress, even though it doesn't feel like it sometimes.

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

You're comparing your kids to your parents' youth. What about yours? 

 

I think mcsluggo is correct...my kids (9 and 11) will grow up seeing more hateful things than I did. Not than my parents (who were 9 and 11 in 1959), but more than I did (who was 11 in 1988). 

 

Most of the racism I dealt with being mixed was from other black people more then white people. Growing up, I more likely ran into a white person that felt guilty about the race thing and didn't want to look like that at all, while blacks were still using there perception as a grudge, even those living in upper-middle class in the suburbs with a pathway to colleges like Virginia Tech right in fron to of them no problem. 

 

Cops treating me like a threat before confirming there even was a threat or having guns drawn at me at a routine traffic stop, yes, white officers.  But are we talking about examples of racism on TV being higher or kids these days actually going through racism themselves?  We're in a 24/7 newscycle era, examples of racism are going to get plastered across any TV screen, sometimes before its even confirmed to be race-related.  Racism used to be so common that it literally came with the territory, they didn't have to reach.  We got it good if we're going to an outrage over what happened at Starbucks.

 

There's a difference between seeing racism on youtube and what people had to experience every day to point it came with the territory.  As has been touched on, Racism in the country is real, but its being fanned like a distraction from the real battle which is rich vs poor.  Ya'll aren't helping minorities as much as you think by insisting you are right, actually the opposite.  I don't know how many have known or dealt with "The Man doesn't want me to make it, why bother" issue, that is making education in lower income communities damn near impossible for some people once they believe this as fact. 

 

Obama was son to a single mother who ended up teaching at Harvard and eventually president of the united states, that's what we need to be feeding these kids who wonder if they real can amount to anything considering their circumstances.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Renegade7

[Kilmer17]

13 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

Well things have gotten uglier, I don't think anyone could argue that, but today we see it instantly online, millions get to form their own opinions and the blowback is usually widespread and substantial. Even in the '60s it was at a distance, a newspaper article or item on the evening news and easier to just dismiss and ignore. Today it travels at the speed of light, businesses have been forced to respond, people vote with their wallets and speak out, etc.

 

It's progress, even though it doesn't feel like it sometimes.

I think things are uglier in the vacuous minefield of the internets.  But in actual human interaction, I think our country is far far more civilized and friendly than at any point in history.

[Renegade7]

22 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think you are pretty far off.  I know quite a few that are solidly middle class nutjobs.  And pretty much everyone of them, has a ****load of guns.  

 

That they plan to use for suppressing people that don't agree with them?

Edited June 4, 2018 by Renegade7

[mcsluggo]

10 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think things are uglier in the vacuous minefield of the internets.  But in actual human interaction, I think our country is far far more civilized and friendly than at any point in history.

 

for the big picture, i agree with you.   

 

better than 1820?  holy **** yes,   

better than 1920?  for damned sure.    

Better than 1950? by a country mile.   

better than 1970?  oh my yes.   

Better than 2015?   or 2010?  or 2000?       I don't think that it is better.

 

I think that we as a country have made huge strides.   And I believe that those strides built on each other in a wonderful way ("built on the backs of giants" if you would).  People could always find troubling facts hitting them in the face (Loving versus Virginia wasn't until the LATE 1960s...holy ****!!??),  but  i think that for the most part, every generation of old people for the last 100 years COULD look at things, and see real progress looking back at what happened during their lifetime..... 

 

and right now we are hiccuping.  we have backslid a litte.   we haven't given it ALL back by any means, but we gave SOME back, and that is troublesome.   

[TheGreatBuzz]

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That they plan to use for suppressing people that don't agree with them?

Not that I know of.  But I try to avoid conversing with them as much as possible.

[LD0506]

59 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think things are uglier in the vacuous minefield of the internets.  But in actual human interaction, I think our country is far far more civilized and friendly than at any point in history.

 

The ugliness is very real, it's out there. SOME people are friendlier and more civilized, others, not so much.............

 

NSFW, NSF humans language......

https://www.facebook.com/StopDjTrump/videos/2087642424838944/

https://www.facebook.com/Docwachi/videos/10215960514106210/

 

[Renegade7]

31 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

and right now we are hiccuping.  we have backslid a litte.   we haven't given it ALL back by any means, but we gave SOME back, and that is troublesome.   

 

To be clear, I'm not denying this. 

 

I'm coming at this from the perspective of the state of race relations being used against our society for ulterior motives and the ramifications it has on minorities believing the cards are too stacked against them to even try.  It's why many of them drop out and or join gangs.  We have to be very careful in how we have this conversation because its not like we've never seen this before and we know the media is going to make a mountain out of anything that gets ratings.  Everyone having a camera in their pocket is increasing the visibility of these incidents, people pushing back against this are more organized and those they are pushing back against are move visible.

 

Like I've said before, the lights got switched on and now we all know how many roaches are in the house.  If you were paying attention, you already knew they were there.

[Forehead]

I tend to think that in general, the Internet has allowed people to anonymously voice thoughts that have always been there.  I do think our society as a whole has too much comfort to risk everything with a civil war, and I think it worse comes to worse, you'd see something like what happened with that Cliven Bundy group, only with more casualties.  In a battle of right wing gun nuts vs. the national guard and/or some other military, I'll side with the military.

 

I think most of society will grind their teeth, **** on whichever social media platform they prefer, and then go about their day trying to support themselves, their family, etc.  I think my grandkids, should I have any, will eventually ask me what it was like living through the Trump presidency and I'll give them my honest feelings about it, knowing that it was a terrible footnote in our history.  I think the loss of some of our global stature is permanent, but we'll still be a major player in world politics.

 

In the short term, I'm basically hoping that someone more normal than Trump is in office, and there's massive blowback against the Incel type idiots, before my daughter, who is now eight, enters high school.

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think things are uglier in the vacuous minefield of the internets.  But in actual human interaction, I think our country is far far more civilized and friendly than at any point in history.

Think it depends where you live. Here in NoVA, things are pleasant. But then you see some of the racist rant in public place videos out there and its pretty shocking.

 

There is, essentially, two Americas.

[nonniey]

10 hours ago, mcsluggo said:

 

you aren't comparing kids today to their parents.... you are comparing kids today to their great-great-grand-parents.      

 

from the 1880s (ish) to 2016, for the most part the country got gradually less racist  (and from the outside at least, it looked like it was fairly monotonic-one-sided and continuous).   Since 2016, we have stepped back.   Maybe not to 1950 (yet), but we have stepped back.   in 2008, Racists may have had racist thoughts...but they KNEW that at the very least it wasn't socially-acceptable to out yourself, unless you had already confirmed that you were safe and around "friendlies".   Now....?   who gives a ****?   throw out all the racist **** you want, and if it triggers a few snowflakes?  then all the better!   woohaw!!!  

Agree we've been stepping back but that started in 2009. Damn shame really. 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

On 5/31/2018 at 6:00 PM, TheGreatBuzz said:

It is an interesting question.  I will admit that depending on what I am ordered to do, those civilian clothes in my truck might come out quite quickly.

I think that was part of our "drunken mumbling too"....about at which point we head to the northern border. 

 

#1 - Let me help you with thread names next time. 

      Generation Next Steps

#2 - I will never call you Nostradamus  

#3 - Last week, I heard some talking head on some show make the statement that we are CURRENTLY in a civil war. Understanding there are no battles, but a Cyber Civil War. Really got me to thinking. Families split, fighting each other. The country is so divided and enraged. Something will happen. What that is, and how big it will be, those questions are still TBD. 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by thegreaterbuzzette
to not have subsequent posts

[Renegade7]

Saying "Civil War" is click bait.  People die in Civil Wars, they don't get their panties in a bunch.

 

Not pointing towards anyone in particular, but sometimes I believe its lost the fact our Civil War killed more Americans then any other single war were were ever in.  It wasn't until Vietnam that the combined total of every other war we had been in (including WW2) matched the number of Americans that died in the Civil War.

 

Edit:  Keep in mind, Civil War Trust won't accept the 850,000 number, and insist on the 620,000 number that I'm using for my post and others go by officially.

Edited June 5, 2018 by Renegade7

[Kosher Ham]

Disclaimer... i'm at the level of sleeping....

I read the first page. Seems interesting. 

I don't want to agree or disagree with the other 4 plus pages. 

 

Yet. Good topic. Thanks Buzz. 

 

My initial thought was don't blame...years ago. 

These days, not sure. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

So a guy I know just posted this on FB.  Seemingly normal white middle class dude.  Never seen anything like this from him before.  He has a few kids who I am sure he passes these views on to.

 

"

Wish more f***** (rhymes with maggots) ass liberals would off themselves.......

Sorry not sorry.

"

 

I responded that with those views, maybe he should have taken his own advice.  

 

Tell me again how our society is worth saving................

 

 

EDIT: and I edited out the one word and put the stars.  He just put the actual word on FB.

Edited June 8, 2018 by TheGreatBuzz

[TheGreatBuzz]

Pretty sure I won't be on his friends list from this point going forward.  Good thing about arguing with people you used to work with is you know where their soft spots are.

[TheGreatBuzz]

So he had the company he worked for (major airline) on his Facebook profile.  I sent a screen shot of that and his post to his company.  Is that a dick move?

[China]

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So he had the company he worked for (major airline) on his Facebook profile.  I sent a screen shot of that and his post to his company.  Is that a dick move?

 

No.  If something happens, he should already have known that actions have consequences, hyperbolic vitriol is not necessary, and the internet/social media isn't private.

Edited June 9, 2018 by China

[Nerm]

44 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So he had the company he worked for (major airline) on his Facebook profile.  I sent a screen shot of that and his post to his company.  Is that a dick move?

 

He seems to hate liberals.  How much do you hate him?  His post was offensive, but, I have seen similar comments about conservatives.  Would you send that screen shot to their employers?

[CousinsCowgirl84]

3 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So a guy I know just posted this on FB.  Seemingly normal white middle class dude.  Never seen anything like this from him before.  He has a few kids who I am sure he passes these views on to.

 

"

Wish more f***** (rhymes with maggots) ass liberals would off themselves.......

Sorry not sorry.

"

 

I responded that with those views, maybe he should have taken his own advice.  

 

Tell me again how our society is worth saving................

 

 

EDIT: and I edited out the one word and put the stars.  He just put the actual word on FB.

 

what a piece of ****. Anthony bourdain lived the life, saw what needed to be seen, so if he had a thought about something, liberal or conservative, you ought to consider it. Empirical evidence trumps all.