Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[Springfield]

4 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

So tell me, which party just gave away over $1 trillion to the rich? 

 

To be fair, it was never theirs to begin with.  They just decided to stop collecting as much.  More accurate would be “which side just lessened the rich’s burden by $1T”

[nonniey]

18 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

Do you consider appealing to white folks as identity politics?

It is why I won't vote for Trump (Or in upcoming Senate race in AZ populists Kelli Ward or Arpaio).

[Destino]

Making political discussions about the people making the arguments, instead of the arguments themselves or the issue at hand, does not help.  I don't need to understand Trump voters and I'm not interested in explaining myself to them.  I'd rather we identify problems and discuss how we would go about solving them.  That might get us somewhere.  

 

Pragmatism is boring though and it doesn't scare, excuse me I mean "motivate", voters.  So what we get instead is a battle between white supremacists and godless communists.  Oh no, how will we ever understand those people?  We won't.  We're not meant to.  Our role in this depressing game is to oppose the great evil threatening us and not concern ourselves with the details.   

 

This situation made Trump possible.  He exploited it like no one before him, without an ounce of shame or concern for possible consequence.  

[visionary]

17 minutes ago, nonniey said:

It is why I won't vote for Trump (Or in upcoming Senate race in AZ populists Kelli Ward or Arpaio).

Is there a huge difference between voting for people who openly espouse these ideas and voting for those who do so quietly by supporting Trump and his plans and tirades while in congress and in interviews after getting elected?

 

I mean obviously publicly stoking fear and racial hatred and such is bad, but there are other ways to support it without drawing as much attention that are also bad. (In my opinion)

Edited May 5, 2018 by visionary

[nonniey]

29 minutes ago, visionary said:

Is there a huge difference between voting for people who openly espouse these ideas and voting for those who do so quietly by supporting Trump and his plans and tirades while in congress and in interviews after getting elected?

 

I mean obviously publicly stoking fear and racial hatred and such is bad, but there are other ways to support it without drawing as much attention that are also bad. (In my opinion)

But there are options within the Republican party but by definition there can't be any in the Democratic Party (Identity politics is basically the foundation or the mission statement of that party and always has been). 

Edited May 5, 2018 by nonniey

[TradeTheBeal!]

This kinda feels like it might be identity politics.

 

 

[visionary]

 

[Kilmer17]

I don’t think either side is interested in understanding each other. 

 

Why should they?  They both believe they are right and therefor the other side needs to be the one to make concessions. 

 

 

[Zguy28]

I had to refresh myself on identity politics.

 

"a tendency for people of a particular religion, race, social background, etc., to form exclusive political alliances, moving away from traditional broad-based party politics"

Everybody does this... sadly.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/03/opinions/identity-politics-pelosi-opinion-sheffield/index.html

[Bozo the kKklown]

Just so people can stop pretending to be shocked or try the “both sides” conversation, this stems from the New York Times and other outlets running with stories profiling Trump Country. The attempts to learn about them and why they voted for Trump. These pieces have been put together to make us understand those people and lessen that they voted for a racist, sexist who would love to be a fascist dictator.

[LD0506]

Ahhhh, this has gotten so tiresome.............

 

There is no conversation to be had, there's really no point in it. If you argue with crazies you validate their dumbassery and give them the attention they crave, stop feeding the troll(s).

 

Stop arguing about politics, politics has been so infected and soiled that it is utterly worthless, talk about something meaningful, like $$$. Where is most of the money? Most of the jobs? Most of the opportunity, pretty much all of the good restaurants and theaters and all that stuff that makes life worth living? Ain't Wichita

 

This has become a huge directed breeding experiment now, any kids with even a trace of a clue are going to beg, borrow or steal the first chance to get the **** outta Hooterville and head to the closest city, in hopes of finding a decent job and a churro. They're not going back. The rest will sit in their squalor, breeding another generation to be culled. The brains and ambition and imagination will continue to be concentrated in areas that are, just by sheer coincidence I'm sure, amazingly incredibly blue. The diehard redder-than-red leftovers will continue to sink towards their final destiny as a Mad Max wasteland.

 

Vote that mother****ers

[Kilmer17]

It’s a difficult subject to talk about.  It can always be interpreted as one side telling the other they need to conform. 

 

I would think hunk that the Dems in the US would want to take a step back and say “ok wait.  We couldn’t beat HIM?”   And then try to find out why people voted the wat they did.  

 

That conversation ion always goes south quickly. 

[Hersh]

8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

It’s a difficult subject to talk about.  It can always be interpreted as one side telling the other they need to conform. 

 

I would think hunk that the Dems in the US would want to take a step back and say “ok wait.  We couldn’t beat HIM?”   And then try to find out why people voted the wat they did.  

 

That conversation ion always goes south quickly. 

 

This was done. The problem is that Trump does things that hurt some of these groups economically, as an example, or does something that they railed against Hillary for doing and they support him just the same. 

 

 

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, Hersh said:

 

This was done. The problem is that Trump does things that hurt some of these groups economically, as an example, or does something that they railed against Hillary for doing and they support him just the same. 

 

 

Right. So the question is why. 

if the answer is “eff those racist hicks!” Well don’t be surprised when they still support him. 

[Springfield]

8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Right. So the question is why. 

if the answer is “eff those racist hicks!” Well don’t be surprised when they still support him. 

 

Somehow, Trump was seen as some sort of underdog, unconventional, up and comer who promised change.  He argued the same things Obama did but to a different crowd.  Listen to what Kanye says in his rant with TMZ.  He basically said that Obama (and by extension Hillary) were too nice and fancy, they were bourgeoisie.  Trump is the proletariat, he’s the savior of the middle and lower class.

 

I don’t buy it, but I think his followers do.

[Hersh]

13 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Right. So the question is why. 

if the answer is “eff those racist hicks!” Well don’t be surprised when they still support him. 

 

Are you asking the question why are they still supporting? If so, I think the entire point of the OP is that some are done trying to understand why based on what people say as to why they support Trump. I don’t think that equates to eff those racist hicks unless someone presents themselves as a racist.

[Kilmer17]

I don’t think they WANT to support him. But if te Dems eff up and nominate another terrible candidate I think they will again. 

[Hersh]

3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I don’t think they WANT to support him. But if te Dems eff up and nominate another terrible candidate I think they will again. 

 

That is true for a small percentage of voters. I think they generally make it known that the GOP isn’t currently representing them or they make it know that they have had second thoughts or have lots of concerns about Trump. I think is more about people that remain diehard Trump supporters and say he is doing great. At least that’s my take away from the OP.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Just so people can stop pretending to be shocked or try the “both sides” conversation, this stems from the New York Times and other outlets running with stories profiling Trump Country. The attempts to learn about them and why they voted for Trump. These pieces have been put together to make us understand those people and lessen that they voted for a racist, sexist who would love to be a fascist dictator.

 

That isn’t the only reason to understand them, and it doesn’t have to be a reason to understand them. 

 

I’ve found great value in understanding who voted for trump and why, and the only thing that’s changed is I think less of a lot of people than I did before. 

 

I suppose ive also learned not to bother discussing politics with them. There’s not much to discuss when the root of a persons thoughts comes from identity politics. 

 

Doesnt seem to be many people willing to discuss and form opinions/ideas without somehow being strongly influenced by their desire to help or hurt a group of people based specifically on said groups race/gender/creed/sexual preferences. Doesn’t really matter what party they align with. It’s really annoying how everyone has made everything about race etc

[No Excuses]

There is sort of a uniform consensus from detailed studies on voter preferences in 2016 that show racial issues were at the heart of Trump support.

 

I don't know why we are so quick to dismiss the race angle when the evidence so very clearly points towards it.

 

If anything, the conservative movement in this country needs to have a dialogue on what it is morphing into. Take this for instance:

 

Quote

 

A GOP Senate candidate who glorifies Adolph Hitler and advocates limiting the number of Jews in government was bounced from the California Republican Party’s convention in San Diego on Saturday, May 5, removed by security while he was kicking and dragging an Israeli flag.

 

Republican officials have denounced Patrick Little’s views, condemning his anti-Semitism and noting that Little isn’t active in the state party.

“It’s appalling,” GOP state party Chairman Jim Brulte said Friday. “We denounced him as harshly as we could.”

 

Little, 33, of Albany in Alameda County, made headlines in recent weeks after the self-described “white advocate” finished second in an April SurveyUSA poll of California’s U.S. Senate contest, supported by 18 percent of state voters. He finished behind only Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein, and the survey said Little was backed by 46 percent of Republicans polled.

 

 

https://www.ocregister.com/2018/05/05/anti-semitic-u-s-senate-candidate-booted-from-california-gop-convention-while-kicking-israeli-flag/

 

I am not going to link to it, but Don Blankenship is currently running race baiting ads in West Virginia targeting Mitch McConnel's wife and her Chinese background. 

 

Corey Stewart, who is most likely going to challenge Tim Kaine in the VA Senate race is another openly racist, neo-confederate who has massive support amongst the VA GOP base.

 

Racial animosity is very clearly at the core of the conservative movement at the moment.

Edited May 5, 2018 by No Excuses

[skinsmarydu]

4 hours ago, tshile said:

 

Pretty much everyone on the left who thought she was a great option to be president. 

 

It’s not a tiny few, and assault weapons are not the only guns people are talking about. 

For my record, not a great candidate, but y'all already know I voted for Bernie in the primary. But I'm a ****load smarter than Trump and I wasn't running, so I went with my gut.

My opinions aren't right or wrong. They're just mine.

Edited May 5, 2018 by skinsmarydu

[Bang]

Too many Trump supporters relish in his worst, defend the indefensible, and dig in deeper the lower he goes.

Trying to find the answer as to why may very well BE that they ARE hateful ignorant people hellbent on a fascist ideology, and they aren't smart enough, or are too brainwashed to be able to recognize it. 

None of tghis is new. None of t. These folks have been steadily gaining in strength on the AGOP side, because their propaganda and leadership has no qualms about manipulating their worst traits, and playing upon their worst fears.

It has boiled the GOP down to the crazies. The lunatics who are perfectly happy to enable this con artist to loot the country and burn our (their) values to the ground.

 

as we've seen.. his approval rate does not dip below a certain point..  roughly 30%.. the steadiness of this number shows that is where they are going to make a stand, and those folks are not ever going to listen or try to understand that which they cannot. What they have been taught for tghe last 25 years is to hate..  and they do. Hate doesn't get undone. Hate usually has to be destroyed, especially on the level it has been cultivated, and to the new heights in which it is being manipulated.

 

I do know some Trumpsters.. more like GOP straight ticketers. (as one said to me, "I know he's a hot mes, but he's my hot mess".. to my incredulous look of confusion..)They give me the side eye when he comes up..  but they are stuck on team, above all. A couple of them will never change. Some of them view it like it's a game.  A couple of them .. i think for them it's like a divorce that is a long time coming. They keep holding out hope for conservatism to mean conservatism again,, and they are bending their own rules to justify a lot.

 

But your MAGA hat wearing clown with a big ol' Gadsden flag flyin' off his pickup truck?

Yeah, right.

 

~Bang

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 hours ago, SkinsHokieFan said:

Their children will will be working for mine.

My children don’t hire dirty Trump supporters.

[tshile]

10 minutes ago, Bang said:

as we've seen.. his approval rate does not dip below a certain point..  roughly 30%.. the steadiness of this number shows that is where they are going to make a stand, and those folks are not ever going to listen or try to understand that which they cannot. What they have been taught for tghe last 25 years is to hate..  and they do. Hate doesn't get undone. Hate usually has to be destroyed, especially on the level it has been cultivated, and to the new heights in which it is being manipulated.

 

I think this number is flawed. That’s approval rating. That’s a look at the individuals job. 

 

I think the the more important/accurate number is who would vote for him. People who will justify it because they refuse to vote for a democrat. 

 

If you vote to put him in power you’re just as culpable as people who “approve” of what he’s doing. It’s just another form of approval, whether they admit it or not. 

 

I think the the number of people willing to vote for him again is still over 40%. I think any decent dem candidate will beat him in 2020, but I think trump will still pull over 40% of the electorate 

[tshile]

That may seem trivial but in the grand scheme of things, it shifts the conversation from “just under a third” to “just about half” of the country thinking this way 

 

thats a big deal in my opinion. A third is a ridiculous portion. Around half is so alarming I’m not so sure leaving isn’t a joke of an option. I’m hard pressed to think this country is what is best for my family. And we’re white upper-middle class. Among the least affected.