Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[No Excuses]

21 minutes ago, grego said:

 

Did you see Weiss on morning joe last week? 

 

No but unfortunately I read her “Intellectual Dark Web” article and it was a steaming pile of garbage. 

 

The NYT is noticeably suffering without a public editor on board.

[Renegade7]

43 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

It takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to let Trump voters off the hook for their racism and bigotry when literally that was the backbone of his campaign.

 

Every rigorous analysis of voter views since the election has shown that cultural and racial tension was the core basis of Trump's rise and support within the GOP.

 

I get that people don't want a derogatory label attached to them, but let's not pretend that it isn't well earned. Perhaps the onus should be on people to not be deplorable.

Agreed.  There's a way to go about that without stooping to their level on it.  For me, its not 100% clear on what we should do(but I'm going keep working on it), but its 100% clear to me what we should not do.  We told the GOP to go to their room and they said "No", does that mean we need to punch them in the face for it?  Keep in my mind, I support corporal punishment, but I know where the line is.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Renegade7

[@DCGoldPants]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Agreed.  There's a way to go about that without stooping to their level on it.  For me, its not 100% clear on what we should do(but I'm going keep working on it), but its 100% clear to me what we should not do.  We told the GOP to go to their room and they said "No", does that mean we need to punch them in the face for it?  Keep in my mind, I support corporal punishment, but I know where the line is.

 

You focus on the elected officials and not those who elected them. If you attack the voter for being stupid or even trying to convince them in the least offensive way possible. They are likely to dig in their heels deeper because people are stubborn. 

 

Comments about the high road are right. Hasn't gotten then anywhere. Doesn't mean you have to get sucked into the swamp with the Hannity types. You can frame it as "not only is this President a liar on levels we have never seen before. He's lying to everyone. His opponents and his supporters." and then pivot to the Reagan "There you go again" when attacked from his admin, State TV, etc. Don't get into the details. Just "There you go again". Watch the meltdown on Tucker or Judge Speed trap. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

24 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I can't watch MSNBC either, but I have my reasons that I've explained before in other threads.

 

[condensing just to keep the quote shorter but summary is you feel there is a lot of **** stiring going on from the left]

 

As for "I'm right if Dems get one or both chambers of congress", because during the Virginia elections, many of the candidates on the local level stayed focused on local issues instead of trying to bring Trump into everything (as the right likes to do things like bring Hillary all the way down into issues she has no control over).  There are people on the right that will call out the left for stuff that isn't true no matter what, but I'm looking at the elections since 2016, DNC is taking seriously all the flaws that lead up to that debacle.

Wouldn't you agree that your first paragraph does not support your position? Maybe the reason the democrats are winning is because people are pissed off at the GOP right now? Actually, I'm sure that if you think about it, you understand that that's exactly what the case is. Nobody is being driven to the polls by issues any more now than they were in the last election. People are motivated to vote because they see what a **** nugget Trump and the rest of the GOP goo have become.

 

The next part about not understanding what I and others want the Dems to do... I've been pretty clear about it. I don't want them to make up bull**** scandals, I don't want to have my Facebook feed littered with memes of fake quotes and photoshops of Trump slicing Mexicans' throats, I don't want 5000 websites popping up targetting idiots with obviously ridiculous tabloidal nonsense, I don't want a candidate who knows nothing but gets elected because he acts like an asshole, I don't even want them to say that Republicans or conservatives are the enemy.

 

I want them to say, "Look, all this stuff is what the GOP is doing. Conservatives and Republicans are not our enemy, but the GOP isn't either of those things. The GOP on the federal level, is willing to destroy our country's integrity for power, not even realizing that they have no power... they are beholden to (not supported by) the wealthiest Americans and they are more than willing to **** over the rest of us if they are told to do so in order to give more to the people who need it least." I want someone to stand up and say "Trump is a ****ing liar!" I want them to point out, over and over and over again that he mocks disabled people and POWs and lies about Obama wiretapping him and ****s porn stars while his wife is home nursing their new baby and brags about sleeping with his friends wives and defends the KKK and threatens nuclear war when one of the fireflies buzzing around in his brain lets out a fart, and etc, etc, etc and I want them to take every piece of **** GOP congressman who supports and defends that behavior to account.

 

I have no desire to sit back and watch the GOP continue winning by making a bunch of mouth breathing morons vote for them with hate and fear and corrupting the each branch of the government with every dirty trick in the book while the dems talk about the availability and affordability of energy. One you crush the biggest issue... the greatest threat to our country... then we can work on fixing the energy problem.

 

edit: I do want the politicians to start playing just as dirty with things like gerrymandering, obstruction, blocking nominations, etc. Or, not so much I want them to as that I recognize that they have to.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[No Excuses]

30 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Agreed.  There's a way to go about that without stooping to their level on it.  For me, its not 100% clear on what we should do(but I'm going keep working on it), but its 100% clear to me what we should not do.  We told the GOP to go to their room and they said "No", does that mean we need to punch them in the face for it?  Keep in my mind, I support corporal punishment, but I know where the line is.

 

SteveMcQ already posted this but I think he was spot on. Two of the most important things we can do:

 

1. Educate. Educate. Educate. We need a movement in this country that reestablishes the value of education and counters the anti-intellectual movement that the GOP has ushered in where the pursuit of education is looked down upon. There are signs (teacher strikes etc) that we are potentially on our way to making this a national issue.

 

2. Media outlets in the US needs to start exposing white people to the diversity of culture and thinking found in the more multicultural centers of the country. There is no other way to break the cycle of bigotry and fear for people who live in 90% + majority white towns and have no exposure to people who are not of their identity.

[Kilmer17]

I’ll ask again. 

 

If neither side tries to understand those who didn’t vote for them, who wins?

[bearrock]

3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I’ll ask again. 

 

If neither side tries to understand those who didn’t vote for them, who wins?

Russia?

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I’ll ask again. 

 

If neither side tries to understand those who didn’t vote for them, who wins?

No one, not even Russia. 

 

Reading between the tea leaves, Putin is realizing he can't control Trump and is focusing on keeping us unstable with the idea that it will benefit him.  He's taking a risk the Trump has a line with the most powerful military on the planet. This feels like a calculated risk that still has a chance of backfiring on him, but a risk none the less.

 

In regards to internally, we'll never find a middle ground between us if we don't care what that is.

[twa]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

If it were true, the entire left would be a bunch of Marx loving commies. 

 

 

So it is true ...

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Wouldn't you agree that your first paragraph does not support your position? Maybe the reason the democrats are winning is because people are pissed off at the GOP right now? Actually, I'm sure that if you think about it, you understand that that's exactly what the case is. Nobody is being driven to the polls by issues any more now than they were in the last election. People are motivated to vote because they see what a **** nugget Trump and the rest of the GOP goo have become.

 

Acknowledging that both are true should not be considered an invitation that either are false.  Dems have been mad with the GOP, its on a different level now.  Parties being energized due to the failings of the incumbent opposing party is historically what happens in mid-term elections, that is nothing new.  What is new is Dems running candidates in districts they normally don't.  What is new is that my mom is now completely irrational in regards to how she feels about Trump, I have to fact check her all the time now because she's about to blow a gasket every time his name comes up. 

 

We all know Trump is a horrible person, we don't need anything else to confirm that.  I voted in November but withheld my votes for a lot of local seats because I couldn't tell what they really wanted to do once elected.  I don't like making assumptions, even with a D next to their name (which in a lot of local elections done here, we don't even get that), and even though I didn't see many of their websites focusing on Trump, I want to make clear that I won't vote for someone that centers their campaign around that.  Hating Trump is not a policy issue, it's not a platform, and its a recipe for focusing future elections on the fact their opponent is part of an opposing party instead of the issues (which we shouldn't be doing now nor should we be doing in the future).

 

This lady gets it, you heard about her, right?

 

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/07/562679573/election-of-transgender-lawmaker-in-virginia-makes-history

 

Do a ctrl-f on that article, the word "Trump"doesn't appear once.

 

Quote

The next part about not understanding what I and others want the Dems to do... I've been pretty clear about it. I don't want them to make up bull**** scandals, I don't want to have my Facebook feed littered with memes of fake quotes and photoshops of Trump slicing Mexicans' throats, I don't want 5000 websites popping up targetting idiots with obviously ridiculous tabloidal nonsense, I don't want a candidate who knows nothing but gets elected because he acts like an asshole, I don't even want them to say that Republicans or conservatives are the enemy.

 

We agree on this part, have for a while.  I always want to give ya'll the benefit of the doubt when we talk about "playing the GOP's game", but some of ya'll keep slipping in that regard.

 

Quote

I want them to say, "Look, all this stuff is what the GOP is doing. Conservatives and Republicans are not our enemy, but the GOP isn't either of those things. The GOP on the federal level, is willing to destroy our country's integrity for power, not even realizing that they have no power... they are beholden to (not supported by) the wealthiest Americans and they are more than willing to **** over the rest of us if they are told to do so in order to give more to the people who need it least." I want someone to stand up and say "Trump is a ****ing liar!" I want them to point out, over and over and over again that he mocks disabled people and POWs and lies about Obama wiretapping him and ****s porn stars while his wife is home nursing their new baby and brags about sleeping with his friends wives and defends the KKK and threatens nuclear war when one of the fireflies buzzing around in his brain lets out a fart, and etc, etc, etc and I want them to take every piece of **** GOP congressman who supports and defends that behavior to account.

 

At this point, I believe we are all on the same page that this guy would win the "Most likely to be the Anti-Christ" award walking away backwards.  I don't need anymore evidence for this, my focus now is on what laws did he actually break and which policies I do or do not agree with.  When the other half of the aisle is willing to look past all that, are we sure that harping on things outside of actual criminal activity or terrible policy decisions is really to matter? 

 

I don't want to see a single campaign ad about him having an affair with Stormy, I want Muller to finish his investigation before 2020 so the focus becomes on people trying to defend him actually being caught breaking the law versus 'Christian values requiring forgiveness".  Everyone is either on the same page with how horrible a person Trump is or in denial about it, there isn't a single campaign ad that can be made to change anyone'd mind on it at this point, why even waste the money?

 

Quote

I have no desire to sit back and watch the GOP continue winning by making a bunch of mouth breathing morons vote for them with hate and fear and corrupting the each branch of the government with every dirty trick in the book while the dems talk about the availability and affordability of energy. One you crush the biggest issue... the greatest threat to our country... then we can work on fixing the energy problem.

 

The stats back up that GOP is on an unsustainable path right now from a numbers standpoint since 2016:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2017/09/13/politics/special-elections-oklahoma-new-hampshire/index.html

 

It's already a given we have to get rid of Trump, but you're sounding like this is a setup up for the Republicans to double down on their control of the government in the mid-terms and the stats are pointing towards the opposite.  Alabama has a democratic senator for crying out loud.

 

Quote

edit: I do want the politicians to start playing just as dirty with things like gerrymandering, obstruction, blocking nominations, etc. Or, not so much I want them to as that I recognize that they have to.

 

This is where our lines differ. 

 

Gerrymandering has already made it to the SC now.  GOP wants to claim that the maps favor Dems more then the previous map, but everybody in the room knows the map got so bad that any changes at all would help the DNC.  We're getting to a point in that issue where it could be a watershed in terms of multiple maps having to be redrawn, so if Dems screw that up by trying to go as far as the GOP did, SC won't be on our side anymore.  SC shouldn't be picking sides in regards to political party versus what's fair or the country in general, this is a perfect example of trying to meet the GOP halfway would backfire horribly.

 

I do not want us to tit for tat with the GOP on petty nonsense, someone needs to be the adults in the room, otherwise the whole thing will be run by children.  There should be a law forcing nomination processes to either start and/or complete within a certain time frame, we should never allow or encourage Dems to do what McConnell did to Obama in regards to his SC nominee. Threatening a Government Shutdown over DACA was a mistake, and they still have nothing to show for it. If Dems get control of the federal government in a way they don't need GOP support for certain issues, no way should they resort to their same games to achieve anything, they won't need to.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Renegade7

[Llevron]

34 minutes ago, twa said:

 

So it is true ...

 

You dont even try anymore do you?

[grego]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

No but unfortunately I read her “Intellectual Dark Web” article and it was a steaming pile of garbage. 

 

The NYT is noticeably suffering without a public editor on board.

Wasn't that, in part, about Harris? 

 

You should check it out on YouTube. It's another of a long list of someone saying something but someone hearing something completely different, which I think is a huge problem today.

 

Fortunately they were able to iron out where they were miscommunicatung, unlike many of these interviews /debates and they realized they agreed on more than they thought. 

[LadySkinsFan]

I want to hear the words tax scam, and I want Trump's policies on immigration affecting our farmers, how all of his policies are taking jobs instead of job creation, every damn thing that they have done to hurt Americans.

[tshile]

It’s going to be real awkward for some of you if trump wins in 2020. 

[Larry]

35 minutes ago, tshile said:

It’s going to be real awkward for some of you disastrous for the country if trump wins in 2020. 

 

FTFY. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

38 minutes ago, tshile said:

It’s going to be Hillary’s fault if trump wins in 2020. 

 

This is fun.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

I’ll ask again.  If neither side tries to understand those who didn’t vote for them, who wins?

I said it earlier... I did try to understand Trump supporters. It didn't help. The more I understood, the less hope I had. Summing up my findings... basically, they suck.

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

You dont even try anymore do you?

Like when Mr. Burns stole the Simpsons puppies...

 

http://www.simpsonsworld.com/video/311773251697

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I said it earlier... I did try to understand Trump supporters. It didn't help. The more I understood, the less hope I had. Summing up my findings... basically, they suck.

Do you mean people that voted for Trump in general or people from Trump's base?  I feel you on the later 110, but they aren't the same thing.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

What is new is that my mom is now completely irrational in regards to how she feels about Trump

Is she?? OR IS SHE THE SANEST PERSON YOU KNOW??!?!?!?

 

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Do you mean people that voted for Trump in general or people from Trump's base?  I feel you on the later 110, but they aren't the same thing.

Ah, that's why I was careful to say "Trump supporters and not Trump voters".

Edited May 13, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Renegade7]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Is she?? OR IS SHE THE SANEST PERSON YOU KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWW??!?!?!?

Mom is Type 1 Bipolar and I'm Type 2, so we both take meds to help keep our emotions from getting the best of us : )

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Mom is Type 1 Bipolar and I'm Type 2, so we both take meds to help keep our emotions from getting the best of us : )

You're just mad because your mom agrees with me and loves me more. I know how it goes... Just like that foreign exchange student from Norway we had staying with us when I was in high school. Punk ass Bjorn...

 

Anyway, I need to go wish her a happy mother's day from the Trump stomping son she never had.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Renegade7]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Don't disparage your mom just because she agrees with me and loves me more. What's her number? I need call her up and wish her a happy mother's day.

I'm not going to overract to this, but if you've seen what I've seen with her, you wouldn't of said that.  I'll tell her I know someone that's ready to throw bows, too : )

 

She doesn't fact check anymore because she thinks we're past the point of that mattering, and I keep having to the straddle the line of making sure she knows what she's talking about if she's going to go off about it in public and not seem like I'm trying to defend Trump, which so far hasn't backfired yet.  Her brother posts stuff on FB all the time that she reposts without checking, Trump is doing enough that we don't need to make **** up to further disparage him.

[Llevron]

Oh, yea. I totally understand Trump supporters. Still think they are **** humans. What's not to understand?  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Oh, yea. I totally understand Trump supporters. Still think they are **** humans. What's not to understand?  

Oh, there's so many layers. It's not exactly what it appears to be.

 

Actually it is. You know who understands Trump supporters? FOXNews, FOXNews advertisers, the GOP, INFOWars, etc. Why do you think they all put out the content that they do?

 

You know who REALLY, REALLY understands Trump supporters? I'm thinking of an organization that had the best and brightest people in the country (not our country) undertaking a concentrated effort to study and understand Trump supporters based on research and data. Does everyone know what the main strategy of the Russian disinformation campaign was? Fueling the flames of racism.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Fueling the flames of racism.

Exactly. Everybody knows that's been one the greatest weaknesses of this whole Melting Pot idea almost from get-go.  The sad truth is that vulnerability may never go away and always be there ready for somebody to try and exploit.