Who should be Starting RB in 2018??? (Public Poll)

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Page down a little bit, below the stats.

It's not listed as an actual stat, but in the paragraph with the bold title " ESPN Fantasy Projection: "

To answer your question, his Yards After Contact in 2017 was only 1.68, however as I noted in my last post and quote from that paragraph on ESPN, it uses other stats to come to his defense for those low numbers (faced stacked boxes the 5th most in the league and only travelled 1.45 Yards BEFORE Contact - the 6th lowest, reflecting the declined quality of blocking)

Gotcha.  Ya, that's regarding his average, but if you watch his play, even when he's not hit in the backfield or stacked box he's down pretty much everytime he's touched.  That's something stats can't explain but eyes can, not to mention he was hurt a lot last year, played hurt sometimes and missed almost half the season.

 

IDK, I don't want to argue about this, I'm done with Kelly.  

[REDSKINS JR]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

Fine, if you don't want to take two seconds to do your own research, I'll do it for you.

 

2019 offseason we'll have $16 million in cap space:

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/

 

Below is the list of free agents that offseason:

 

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/washington-redskins/

 

The only two players that really matter to me are Preston Smith and Colt McCoy.  If there's someone else you think we just absolutely cannot let leave, please explain why and how much you'd pay them.

 

If we cut Vernon Davis and Stacy McGee, that's and extra $7 million in cap space, which brings our number to $23 million in cap space.  If we're serious about getting Bell, I'd trade CT for a draft pick (what we get really will depend on how healthy he stays, I'm already against resigning him since he can't stay healthy).  That's an extra $3 million, so now the number is up to $26 million.  It also allows Guice, if healthy, to be the supplemental back to Bell instead of the "where do we put him" guy.

 

You keep saying we have to resign Preston Smith, but the question is for how much?  He's never had more then 8 sacks in a season, so unless he gets double digit sacks, I'm not giving him Kerrigan money, which is $13 million a year.  We also have to be careful with overpaying him versus his production, because if he gets 8 sacks again or less, I'm not giving him more then Reed and Zach Brown (who are around $9 million).  If he does get double-digit sacks, that's a difference conversation, because I don't want to give him more then Kerrigan because I don't believe he's better then Kerrigan. For the sake of this conversation, lets give him $9 million, but be prepared for other suitors.  If he hits free agency, you can forget it, he's going to get overpaid and I wouldn't match it unless he goes off whether we go after Bell or not. 

 

BTW, I'm letting Ty Nsyke leave (since we have Christian) and already prepared to do the same with Crowder because its looking like Quinn is going to get punt return duties (we can also draft another slot receiver).  I'm not overpaying a slot receiver if he's not playing special teams. So say Preston is back for $9 million, we're now down to $17 million in cap space.  I've said $14-$15 million offer to Bell and just kill him with guaranteed money up front to compete with other teams and get his cap hit to something like $14 million the first year.  What we need to do is get him to buy into the money we can guarantee total and up front so we can get that first year number down to something like $13 million.  That will leave us with $4 million in cap space. I'd offer Colt a similar contract to what we gave him that was under $1 million the first year, and to expire same year as Alex Smith.  Now we're down to $3 million and talking draft picks and top 51.  There's really no telling how that will shape out, but I want that first pick to be LG and to replace Hopkins with competition or a draft pick (cutting Hopkins would save us $2 million in cap space).

 

So that's ideal scenario for 2019.  What could easily happen is Preston Smith goes off and we have to decide how much we want to give him versus letting him walk and replacing him with a draft pick.  If he leaves, getting Bell in here next season will be easy, but I'd stick as close to what I mentioned as we can.  I think Smith is going to leave anyway because Bruce is going to get caught between paying elite talent (which even as shrewd as he is he's not afraid to do via Alex Smith and Josh Norman) and the reality that no matter what someone is going to offer more. 

 

There's really too many moving parts for me to lay out what I think will happen in 2020 offseason. What I do know is if we do nothing at all nor what I mentioned, right now we'll have $50 million in cap space in 2020:

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/

 

These the notable free agents in 2020 and their 2019 salary (that I haven't already gotten off the team in my scenario):

 

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/washington-redskins/

 

Brandon Scherff - $12 million

DJ Swearinger - $5 million

Josh Doctson - $3 million

Mason Foster - $2 million

Matt Ionnidas - $700K

 

So what Bruce and Doug have done is set this team up to give people team friendly deals and avoid cap hell.  We have no idea how these guys are going to play over the next two years, will they stay healthy, will other more important needs come up, or will we end up in a situation where we'd have to overpay someone to keep them.  But fitting Bell into this is NOT impossible.  If someone wants to give Bell $17 million a year, they can knock themselves out. But if you're going to tell me that adding him will cause us to lose other players, show me the numbers and why since I've taken the effort to show you other wise.  Stop parroting the same thing over and over again, I heard you the first 17 times and every time I come with additional takes, you've come at me with insults.  Not cool.

 

I have no idea how he has that number, you can count every time he runs and not see him get an extra two yards out of it last year and this year.  What year was that stat from?

We resigned Colt already

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, REDSKINS JR said:

We resigned Colt already

You really just quoted that entire post to say that?  OverTheCap didn't update, that's my bad, but that's $2 million more then what I would've given him for 2019 anyway, that's not end of the world, it expires after 2019 season anyway, so not even a factor in 2020 yet. Cut Hopkins next offseason like I said and we're back up to $3 million walking into the draft.

 

Seriously, why you quote that whole post just to say that?

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Robert Kelley with  4.68 40 time.

 

1. Darkwa Can Run Fast
Despite not receiving an invite to the NFL Combine earlier this year, he was able to showcase his speed at Tulane's Pro Day. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.46 seconds, an especially solid time for a back who stands 5-11, 212.

 

 

That 40 time was 5 years ago, before multiple injuries he sustained.

He suffered 2 separate leg injuries in 2016.

And then when that video highlight was taken from 2017, despite running for the TD, he appeared to be pretty slow, and slower than Kelley, so I think the injuries slowed him down, and that 40 time is not accurate. The defenders he outran on the Redskins - yea you guessed it, were very slow

[REDSKINS JR]

Didn't realize I did   I thought I had to hit quote to respond

[JoggingGod]

@Renegade7 First off Smith is as good a pass rusher as Kerrigan already, maybe better. Sacks are not the only part of being an edge rusher. He brings a lot of athleticism and pressure on the field, which are two things that Kerrigan does not. He would be a huge loss and not worth losing in favor of a running back. 

 

Second, Smith is worth more than Norman and Reed at this point. Norman was a complete liability last year and cannot make a play worth his contract to save his life. Reed misses half a season per year. You’re telling me you want to pay players past their prime over a young pass rusher who just entered his? 

 

Third, Guice is a waste as a supplamental back. You take starters in the 2nd round. Guice was drafted to be a bellcow on 1st and 2nd down. Unless you’re telling me you want Bell as a 3rd down scat back which is a laughable, laughable waste of Bell’s money. So you’re wasting resources either way by signing Bell.

 

Fourth, signing Bell is a typical Dan Snyder move. Sacrifice your draft picks and cap space to sign some big name locker room cancer. Albert Haynesworth ring a bell?

 

For the last time, we don’t need a RB. Period. End of story. We have way bigger holes to spend money and draft picks on than a guy who isn’t going to be the same player 3 years from now. 

 

I mean do you not realize that Bell turned down an massive deal from the Steelers? He’s not a team player. He’s looking for a team to bleed money from. I would actually riot if we signed Bell.

 

 

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, REDSKINS JR said:

Didn't realize I did   I thought I had to hit quote to respond

Don't sweat it, its not that big a deal.  Was just curious if agreed or disagreed with anything I said.

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 minutes ago, REDSKINS JR said:

 I thought I had to hit quote to respond

 

Haha, that would be like on Youtube and other sites.

Here, after you hit quote, you have to edit out or delete all the information from the person you quoted, that does not apply to your response - as much as possible.

Otherwise it will show the whole thing, no matter how large.

[Renegade7]

30 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

@Renegade7 First off Smith is as good a pass rusher as Kerrigan already, maybe better. Sacks are not the only part of being an edge rusher. He brings a lot of athleticism and pressure on the field, which are two things that Kerrigan does not. He would be a huge loss and not worth losing in favor of a running back. 

 

Pressures do matter, but Kerrigan is getting home.  He's also better in coverage.  How are you with a straight face going to say Kerrigan doesn't bring pressure on the field and he had 13 sacks last year?  Losing Preston would be a huge lose, but you're not answering the question regarding how much to pay him.  You really can't until he gets through this season.

 

Quote

Second, Smith is worth more than Norman and Reed at this point. Norman was a complete liability last year and cannot make a play worth his contract to save his life. Reed misses half a season per year. You’re telling me you want to pay players past their prime over a young pass rusher who just entered his? 

 

What does this even mean?  I'd be open to getting rid of Norman to do this, but asking this question like that is suggesting you'd rather get rid of Reed to pay Preston.  If Reed can't stay healthy again, I'm with you. Does that mean Vernon Davis is our starting TE? He'll be 35 going into next season.

 

Quote

Third, Guice is a waste as a supplamental back. You take starters in the 2nd round. Guice was drafted to be a bellcow on 1st and 2nd down. Unless you’re telling me you want Bell as a 3rd down scat back which is a laughable, laughable waste of Bell’s money. So you’re wasting resources either way by signing Bell.

 

No, I don't believe Guice can be or should be a bellcow with knee injuries in back to back seasons.  Saying something stupid like having Bell as a 3rd down back doesn't make you smart.  Remember, the premise on me wanting to go after Bell again is that I don't want to wait to see if Guice fully recovers, I've seen this movie before.  You want and expect 2nd rounders to be starters, but that's not always how it turns out.  Remember we had Fred Davis, Devin Thomas, and the Comb? Dude, there are no promises in this league, you should know this by now following this team.

 

Quote

Fourth, signing Bell is a typical Dan Snyder move. Sacrifice your draft picks in favor of signing some big name locker room cancer. Albert Haynesworth ring a bell?

 

Whoa Whoa Whoa, Bell is a cancer now?  Show me an article that says that or stop making false accusations to further your cause, which sounds like stand pat and hope for the best.  If you want to compete for a superbowl, you need elite talent.  Guice isn't elite, he's recovering from an ACL tear before he had a single regular season snap, we don't know what he is now.  At least with him and Bell as our top backs we're safe with a legit #1 RB and can protect Guice from getting overused and injured again (similar to what we are doing with CT)

 

Quote

For the last time, we don’t need a RB. Period. End of story. We have way bigger holes to spend money and draft picks on than a guy who isn’t going to be the same player 3 years from now. 

 

I can't help you if you believe Bell is going to fall off a cliff before he even reaches 30, but Alex is 34.  For the last time, all the NFC powerhouses can run the ball except us.  We need to do something or we will be outside looking in.  We may disagree on what will happen with Guice, but I'm already thinking about how to protect him so we don't lose him, and you want to go balls deep like everything fine. Bell is going to be a FA, so we don't have to give up draft picks to get him, so stop bringing that up like trading is an option now, I'm not saying that anymore, its too late for that.

[Renegade7]

16 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Haha, that would be like on Youtube and other sites.

Here, after you hit quote, you have to edit out or delete all the information from the person you quoted, that does not apply to your response - as much as possible.

Otherwise it will show the whole thing, no matter how large.

 

@REDSKINS JR  When you make a quote box, you can delete as much out of it as you want (recommend since its a forum rule to avoid quoting large text when you can).  If you want to break a quote up into chunks to respond to individual points separately, just put your cursor where you want to make a break and hit enter a couple times.  That's how I'm breaking up my posts to address each section individually.

 

If you put @ then someone's username, it tags them to get their attention so you don't have to quote them.

[JoggingGod]

@Renegade7How many times do I have to tell you this? Torn ACLs don’t ruin players’ careers anymore and RB is not even close to the same position as QB. You never see backs still dominating at age 30 but you often see QBs dominating at age 36. It’s the nature of the RB position. You are a stud until you reach age 28 or 29 and then you fall off. That is why we should completely bank on Guice for now because he is so young and will give us many more years of great RB play vs giving Bell a 4 or 5 year contract.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

 

And in terms of RB, here is a list of RB's that may be available very soon by cut or for a minimal investment, late round pick, some would cost more:

 

Who of this group is definitively better than Kelley/Perine? 

Some are currently the back some are 3rd string or worse on their current teams.

 

TJ Yeldon (because they really love corey grant) jags

Corey Grant jags

Mack Brown (Remember him? yep) ravens

Ameer Abdullah detroit

Aaron Jones green bay

Jonathan Williams saints

Tevin Coleman $ worth the most would cost a 2nd or 3rd I'd imagine. Steal for a 4th imo.

Mike Gilleslie

Thomas Rawls

Chris Ivory

[JoggingGod]

Just now, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

And in terms of RB, here is a list of RB's that may be available very soon by cut or for a minimal investment, late round pick, some would cost more:

 

Who of this group is definitively better than Kelley/Perine? 

Some are currently the back some are 3rd string or worse on their current teams.

 

TJ Yeldon (because they really love corey grant) jags

Corey Grant jags

Mack Brown (Remember him? yep) ravens

Ameer Abdullah detroit

Aaron Jones green bay

Jonathan Williams saints

Tevin Coleman $ worth the most would cost a 2nd or 3rd I'd imagine. Steal for a 4th imo.

Mike Gilleslie

Thomas Rawls

Chris Ivory

Jones was solid last year and Yeldon may be good.

@Renegade7In fact if anything someone like Darkwa is better insurance for Guice because he’s decent AND he’s inexpensive.

[Renegade7]

16 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

@Renegade7How many times do I have to tell you this? Torn ACLs don’t ruin players’ careers anymore and RB is not even close to the same position as QB. You never see backs still dominating at age 30 but you often see QBs dominating at age 36. It’s the nature of the RB position. You are a stud until you reach age 28 or 29 and then you fall off. That is why we should completely bank on Guice for now because he is so young and will give us many more years of great RB play vs giving Bell a 4 or 5 year contract.

 

Torn ACLs don't ruin players careers anymore?  Where were you when RG3 showed up?  At this point, you're just saying the same thing over and over again, if you got nothing new, just stop responding to me. 

 

Guice injured his knee two years in a row, this ACL tear didn't come out of nowhere, so stop acting like it.  Bell is 26, 30 is the wall you are thinking about (not 28) so a 4 year contract is right on time for when we expect him to hit the RB wall and Alex Smith's contract to run out. That's a 4 year window with two players we KNOW can get the job done.  

 

We're getting to a point where neither of us around going to change our minds about Guice future. There's no way I'm going to completely bank on a RB who has knee injuries in back to back seasons.  None of should, not matter how much we want this to work out.

15 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

In fact if anything someone like Darkwa is better insurance for Guice because he’s decent AND he’s inexpensive.

Only reason you are saying that is because you are convinced Guice is going to be fine and I'm not.

[JoggingGod]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Torn ACLs don't run players careers anymore?  Where were you when RG3 showed up?  At this point, you're just saying the same thing over and over again, if you got nothing new, just stop responding to me. 

 

Guice injured his knee two years in a row, this ACL tear didn't come out of nowhere, so stop acting like it.  Bell is 26, 30 is the wall you are thinking about (not 28) so a 4 year contract is right on time for when we expect him to hit the RB wall and Alex Smith's contract to run out. That's a 4 year window with two players we KNOW can get the job done.  

 

We're getting to a point where neither of us around going to change our minds about Guice future. There's no way I'm going to completely bank on a RB who has knee injuries in back to back seasons.  None of should, not matter how much we want this to work out.

1) RG3 sucked regardless of the ACL tear. He had zero idea how to play the QB position. 

 

2) Guice ran for 1250 on his hyper extended knee. He’s not fragile like Jordan Reed. There’s plenty of reason to believe he will be a lead back for the next several years.

 

3) RB is the last position you should be investing a lot in. You bank on your guy and if he somehow doesn’t work out you can find a replacement easily. 

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

1) RG3 sucked regardless of the ACL tear. He had zero idea how to play the QB position. 

 

Ignoring my point, but whatever.  Your the one that said ACL tears don't ruin people's careers, an absolute statement that is absolutely wrong.

 

Quote

2) Guice ran for 1250 on his hyper extended knee. He’s not fragile like Jordan Reed. There’s plenty of reason to believe he will be a lead back for the next several years.

 

And that's probably why his knee is jacked up.

 

Quote

3) RB is the last position you should be investing a lot in. You bank on your guy and if he somehow doesn’t work out you can find a replacement easily. 

 

You can't on the one hand insist up and down that Guice will be fine then worry about the running back getting injured. 

 

You aren't 100% wrong on this, but the rest of conference is forcing our hand on this, imo.  Rules of Engagement have changes, super bowl champ is coming out the NFC and they are going to have one or two star running backs. Bell is not the only way to address the running game, but im convinced he will put us over the top.  That's more important to me then finding a starter at the position, Darkwa doesn't put us over the top.

 

@JoggingGod we both want redskins to win but disagree on how to do it. It's jus football, though, if you tone down your rhetoric, I'll tone down mine.

[JoggingGod]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ignoring my point, but whatever.  Your the one that said ACL tears don't ruin people's careers, an absolute statement that is absolutely wrong.

 

 

And that's probably why his knee is jacked up.

 

 

You can't on the one hand insist up and down that Guice will be fine then worry about the running back getting injured. 

 

You aren't 100% wrong on this, but the rest of conference is forcing our hand on this, imo.  Rules of Engagement have changes, super bowl champ is coming out the NFC and they are going to have one or two star running backs. Bell is not the only way to address the running game, but im convinced he will put us over the top.  That's more important to me then finding a starter at the position, Darkwa doesn't put us over the top.

 

@JoggingGod we both want redskins to win but disagree on how to do it. It's jus football, though, if you tone down your rhetoric, I'll tone down mine.

1) Go back and look at all of the super bowl teams in recent years. A lot of them don’t have a star RB. Eagles had two good ones but neither of them are elite or were paid anywhwre in the realm of $14 million. So that is a white faced lie.

 

2) A hyperextension and torn ACL isn’t a jacked up knee, especially when you’ve just turned 21. Jaylon Smith had severe nerve damage in his knee and now he’s supposedly back to being the player he was in college.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

1) Go back and look at all of the super bowl teams in recent years. A lot of them don’t have a star RB. Eagles had two good ones but neither of them are elite or were paid anywhwre in the realm of $14 million. So that is a white faced lie.

 

 I just told you to look at the rosters of the NFC powers and you won't do it, went right over your head. They can all run the ball, because they have great running backs, that's what we are up against THIS YEAR.  You can't say look at the past contenders and what works, that really doesn't matter this year because it won't be the case.

 

5 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

2) A hyperextension and torn ACL isn’t a jacked up knee, especially when you’ve just turned 21. Jaylon Smith had severe nerve damage in his knee and now he’s supposedly back to being the player he was in college.

 

Do you seriously not know the difference between ligament damage and nerve damage?  And I am so GD sick of talking about the difference between getting a knee injury one season (like Jaylor), versus getting knee injuries on the same knee two years in a row.  Please just stop responding to me if your going to keep calling me stuff like stupid or a liar, or just shoot me a pm so we can just take this off the air.  

[JoggingGod]

15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 I just told you to look at the rosters of the NFC powers and you won't do it, went right over your head. They can all run the ball, because they have great running backs, that's what we are up against THIS YEAR.  You can't say look at the past contenders and what works, that really doesn't matter this year because it won't be the case.

 

 

Do you seriously not know the difference between ligament damage and nerve damage?  And I am so GD sick of talking about the difference between getting a knee injury one season (like Jaylor), versus getting knee injuries on the same knee two years in a row.  Please just stop responding to me if your going to keep calling me stuff like stupid or a liar, or just shoot me a pm so we can just take this off the air.  

1) The only two NFC powers that have elite backs right now are Los Angeles and New Orleans, and only one is paying their back $14 million per season. Other teams like San Fran, Green Bay, Carolina, Philadelphia, Minnesota have RBBC. In fact New Orleans’ “elite” back was a 3rd round rookie who wasn’t expected to produce much at the beginning. 

 

2) One knee injury that resulted in nerve damage is 10x worse than a hyperextension and a clean ACL tear (that he was able to walk on mind you). The hyperextension may have contributed to the tear, it may have not. It easily could have been a freak non-contact tear too. But either way it wasn’t two season ending injuries. That isn’t enough to panic and sell your soul for Le’Veon Bell.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

That 40 time was 5 years ago, before multiple injuries he sustained.

He suffered 2 separate leg injuries in 2016.

And then when that video highlight was taken from 2017, despite running for the TD, he appeared to be pretty slow, and slower than Kelley, so I think the injuries slowed him down, and that 40 time is not accurate. The defenders he outran on the Redskins - yea you guessed it, were very slow

 

For a dude that had the 5th best breakaway stats for runs (15 yards plus) to be slower now that 4.68 Robert Kelley -- doesn't add up to me. If you are slower than Robert Kelley then you are very slow -- so how is he breaking away with big runs, can't be because of the Giants vaunted O line?

 

With his big runs last year -- wonder how he did it slower than Kelley that would make him about 4.7 -- that's fullback level slow.  But I'll agree with this point, if he is indeed slower than Kelley which means VERY slow then I wouldn't touch him.  I doubt he descended from being a speedy RB to super slow last season but to play with that point a little he should be a but quicker this season now that they took a plate out of his leg.

 

 

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Free agent RB Orleans Darkwa had minor surgery this morning to remove the plate in his leg he had inserted last offseason, I’m told. X-rays confirmed the fractured healed in full & his doc recommended removing the plate that limited his explosiveness. Should be good in 4 weeks.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2752016-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-running-backs-of-2017-season#slide4

 

NFL1000: Ranking the Top Running Backs of 2017 Season

NFL1000 SCOUTS

72. Rob Kelley, Washington Redskins

Inside Running: 14/25
Outside Running: 15/25
Receiving: 14/20
Blocking: 13/20
Position Value: 7/10
Overall Grade: 63/100

Rob Kelley's season was sporadic due to various injuries. He is a powerful back that doesn't shy away from contact and can be effective when he makes decisive cuts. However, Kelley misses lanes from time to time and lacks the speed to run away from defenders regularly.

 

40. Orleans Darkwa, New York Giants

Inside Running: 17/25
Outside Running: 17/25
Receiving: 14/20
Blocking: 14/20
Position Value: 7/10
Overall Grade: 69/100

Orleans Darkwa was one of the few bright spots on the Giants roster. He flashed potential to be in contention for the starting running back job going into 2018, displaying vision and good contact balance in the power running scheme. He took advantage of his opportunity early in the season after the Giants suffered some injuries at running back, but he was contained better by opposing defenses as the year progressed. He'll need to show that he can sustain those flashes of potential if he is to claim the starting job outright.

 

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2017/3/8/14845344/skins-stats-is-robert-kelley-the-answer-at-running-back

ATHLETICISM

Kelley's showing at his pro day was very similar to his college production, in that both were extremely underwhelming.  In the following table I compared his 40-yard dash, vertical jump, short shuttle, 3-cone drill, bench press and SPARQ-X score to 114 other NFL running backs.

This set of backs consists of nearly 100 active NFL runners and about 15 of the top prospects coming out of college this year.  The table is sorted from lowest to highest by Player Profiler's SPARQ-X score.  SPARQ is a composite metric for overall athletic ability.  The table is sortable and expandable.

 

Kelley's rankings in the group for each of the categories is listed below.  Also, speed score (weight adjusted speed), agility score (shuttle + 3 cone), explosion score (vertical jump + broad jump) and SPARQ-X percentile values and rankings have been added in.

Robert Kelley Testing Results & Rankings (of 115)
	40	10	Speed
Value	4.68	2.71	94.2
Ranking	7th Worst	17th Worst	18th Worst
	Shuttle	3-Cone	Agility
Value	4.63	7.19	11.82
Ranking	2nd Worst	16th Worst	5th Worst
	Vertical	Broad	Explosion
Value	29.5	110	139.5
Ranking	6th Worst	7th Worst	6th Worst
	Bench	SPARQ-x	Percentile
Value	16	86.5	1st
Ranking	20th Worst	2nd Worst	2nd Worst

Yes, you read all of that right.  Kelley's best showing in any of these athletic testing metrics was 20th worst.  He ranked in the bottom ten in 40-yard dash, short shuttle, agility score, vertical jump, broad jump, explosion score and SPARQ-X.  Only Jalen Richard had a worse short shuttle time and a lower SPARQ score.

Here is how his vertical jump, broad jump and short shuttle numbers rank among every running back that has ever participated in those drills at the combine: 15th worst, 34th worst and 4th worst.  Wow.

 

I think those terrible results in the vertical and broad jumps make it fair to say that Kelley is probably one of the least explosive NFL running backs of the last 20 years.

All in all, Robert Kelley is the most unathletic starting running back in the NFL.  He is also one of the least athletic backs in the entire league regardless of depth chart position.

The only other running backs that tested nearly as poorly as Kelley did were Jalen Richard, Alfred Blue, Matt Asiata, Theo Riddick, Kapri Bibbs and Antonio Andrews.  Every one of those players has flashed potential, but have yet to consistently perform at a high level in the league.

I'll end this section with a simple, yet spot-on quote from NFL athleticism and SPARQ expert Zach Whitman.

Not all good athletes are good players
Very few poor athletes are good players
Most great players are great athletes

— Zach Whitman (@zjwhitman) March 6, 2017

 

 

[Renegade7]

10 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

1) The only two NFC powers that have elite backs right now are Los Angeles and New Orleans, and only one is paying their back $14 million per season. Other teams like San Fran, Green Bay, Carolina, Philadelphia, Minnesota have RBBC. In fact New Orleans’ “elite” back was a 3rd round rookie who wasn’t expected to produce much at the beginning. 

 

You are severly underestimating Devonta Freeman, Mark Ingram, Dalvin Cook, and Jay Ajay.  Just because a team has two solid running backs doesn't mean it's RBBC.  The only one on that list that hasn't made a pro bowl is Cook, and he was well on his way before he got hurt.  

 

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2) One knee injury that resulted in nerve damage is 10x worse than a hyperextension and a clean ACL tear (that he was able to walk on mind you). The hyperextension may have contributed to the tear, it may have not. It easily could have been a freak non-contact tear too. But either way it wasn’t two season ending injuries. That isn’t enough to panic and sell your soul for Le’Veon Bell.

 It wasnt, Guice knee wasn't treated properly by LSU and whether they said it was fine by the end of last season or not, he straight tore it this year.  Did it heal and fully tear completely this time or did it never fully heal? 

 

You talk about Smith like he's a success story, he played last year with a knee brace, there's no promise he'll be what he could be. Research doesn't support that:

 

http://m.startribune.com/athletes-recover-from-acl-injuries-eventually/391891671/

 

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The Northwestern research is sobering for pro athletes hoping for AP-like returns from ACL injuries, but on the bright side it showed that 80 percent return to play. Most get to 80 percent of their pre-injury performance levels, Mai said. “You won’t get back to full strength, but you’ll get close.”

 

And while it might sound grim for NFL players to only play 1.6 seasons on average after ACL injuries, Mai said the average player only lasts 3.8 seasons in the league anyway.

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For a dude that had the 5th best breakaway stats for runs (15 yards plus) to be slower now that 4.68 Robert Kelley -- doesn't add up to me. If you are slower than Robert Kelley then you are very slow -- so how is he breaking away with big runs, can't be because of the Giants vaunted O line?

 

With his big runs last year -- wonder how he did it slower than Kelley that would make him about 4.7 -- that's fullback level slow.  But I'll agree with this point, if he is indeed slower than Kelley which means VERY slow then I wouldn't touch him.  I doubt he descended from being a speedy RB to super slow last season but to play with that point a little he should be a but quicker this season now that they took a plate out of his leg.

 

 

He had 2 guys escorting him all the way to the endzone which helped compensate his slow speed.

Anyway, if you really want to know, try it like I said, and line up that video of his long run next to Kelley's 66 yarder

[Morneblade]

12 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

And in terms of RB, here is a list of RB's that may be available very soon by cut or for a minimal investment, late round pick, some would cost more:

 

Who of this group is definitively better than Kelley/Perine? 

Some are currently the back some are 3rd string or worse on their current teams.

 

TJ Yeldon (because they really love corey grant) jags

Corey Grant jags

Mack Brown (Remember him? yep) ravens

Ameer Abdullah detroit

Aaron Jones green bay

Jonathan Williams saints

Tevin Coleman $ worth the most would cost a 2nd or 3rd I'd imagine. Steal for a 4th imo.

Mike Gilleslie

Thomas Rawls

Chris Ivory

 

Let me add 2 more guys that are playing on the 3rd team and have looked good

John Kelly (Rams)

Chris Warren (Raiders)

[KillBill26]

12 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

And in terms of RB, here is a list of RB's that may be available very soon by cut or for a minimal investment, late round pick, some would cost more:

 

Who of this group is definitively better than Kelley/Perine? 

Some are currently the back some are 3rd string or worse on their current teams.

 

TJ Yeldon (because they really love corey grant) jags

Corey Grant jags

Mack Brown (Remember him? yep) ravens

Ameer Abdullah detroit

Aaron Jones green bay

Jonathan Williams saints

Tevin Coleman $ worth the most would cost a 2nd or 3rd I'd imagine. Steal for a 4th imo.

Mike Gilleslie

Thomas Rawls

Chris Ivory

Good post, we probably will see some of these names become available. My two cents:

 

I don't see Jones, grant, or ivory going anywhere, unless we overpay.  Pass

 

Williams had a good year backing up mccoy, then out of the blue Buffalo let him walk.  Makes you wonder what his deal is.

 

Gillislee and Rawls could be good fill in options for this year if they were cut, but I wouldn't give more than a 7th for either

 

Abdullah was a big-time prospect, but is always hurt.  But we may be in position to take a shot on him, because we have nothing to lose.  If he can stay healthy, he could have a really good season with our oline.  If he gets hurt, we are right back where we started.

 

With Freeman's injury history, I don't see Atlanta giving up Coleman for anything less than a 3rd.  I'd probably jump at that if we could agree to and extension beforehand so it's not just a rental.  Coleman and guice would be a good 1-2 punch similar to Atlanta's situation now with Freeman's, and maybe Atlanta doesn't feel they can pay both.  We will have guice on the cheap for three more years, and CT is on an affordable contract.  Would still be a pretty cheap unit overall.

 

Yeldon is decent, but is more along the lines of CT / Marshall, I'd like to see more of a between the tackles runner.

 

And I don't know why we are wasting our time with Jamaal Charles, reminds me of the off-season we brought it larry Johnson and Willie Parker, I think Shaun Alexander too, to only realize they were all declining and not worth a roster spot.  Ditto for Charles. I'd much rather have Bibbs or Marshall over Charles.

 

 

[JoggingGod]

36 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You are severly underestimating Devonta Freeman, Mark Ingram, Dalvin Cook, and Jay Ajay.  Just because a team has two solid running backs doesn't mean it's RBBC.  The only one on that list that hasn't made a pro bowl is Cook, and he was well on his way before he got hurt.  

 

 It wasnt, Guice knee wasn't treated properly by LSU and whether they said it was fine by the end of last season or not, he straight tore it this year.  Did it heal and fully tear completely this time or did it never fully heal? 

 

You talk about Smith like he's a success story, he played last year with a knee brace, there's no promise he'll be what he could be. Research doesn't support that:

 

http://m.startribune.com/athletes-recover-from-acl-injuries-eventually/391891671/

 

 

1) Freeman plays with Matt Ryan and had an elite WR corps to take pressure off him. We don’t have any of those. Ingram had his best year when Kamara came in. Eagles and Vikings won without Ajayi and Cook, neither of which are star talents right now.

 

2) Smith has a much much much much much worse injury. That was my point. He didn’t just tear his ACL. He tore other ligaments and had nerve damage. The fact that he, with something that could be considered career ending, is back on the field and playing like he did in college right now shows that there is no reason to assume that a hyperextention and a torn ACL would ruin a player in today’s medical world.

 

3) ACL recovery is dependent on the player but Guice is at a huge advantage given his pain tolerance, playing style, and timeframe of recovery.