BatteredFanSyndrome Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 @skinsmania123 My thanks to your post is not to say that I agree with every ounce of what you posted. But to merely show respect for the fact that while we don’t entirely agree, what you provided is a much more rational and unique take than what much of the mouth-breathing crew provides. Thank you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, PF Chang said: Just for this upcoming year! This isn't a convincing argument. The cap hits for a LTD with Kirk could have been backloaded slightly too. You don't actually know that. Though if a good team does get a discount I guess you'll say see, nobody really wanted him!! a man who's willing to give a discount would never let that bs about future QBs and contracts leave his mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 8 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: McCartney would look like an absolute buffoon if he acquired maximum leverage for his client and then allowed him to sign for less than what Smith just signed for. Actually I think KC could sign with the Vikings for 1 dollar and his agent couldn't do a thing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 12 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: If you don’t think Kirk will sign for more than what Alex Smith just signed for you’re crazy. He doesn’t need to have a microphone and explicitly say that for everyone who has been paying attention to know that. McCartney would look like an absolute buffoon if he acquired maximum leverage for his client and then allowed him to sign for less than what Smith just signed for. I do think Kirk will sign for more than what Smith got because he's younger and at least as good. But the point was to hit free agency so he could get away from this ridiculous organization. That's why he didn't counter offer. That's why his father essentially said he wouldn't sign here long term for any price. I wouldn't be surprised to see a discount for Minnesota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Kirk about to get [much] richer http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/27/packers-working-on-deal-for-aaron-rodgers-that-likely-surpasses-garoppolos/ Packers working on deal for Aaron Rodgers that likely surpasses Garoppolo’s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 36 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said: But back to your post - you cannot deny that Cousin's made lemonade out of lemons last year. He was awesome and almost single handedly beat K.C. and New Orleans. It was a quantum leap in development. He ran more, he stretched himself. He was not as rigid as I have seen him in the two prior years. It is not his fault that his D allowed an extraordinary amount of points in a number of contests that we should have won. You could easily say IF he had Jackson and Garcon we would have done much better IF they did not get hurt as well. But who the hell knows we may had games with 50 points and still lost. Now do I think his trajectory upward is bound to continue? He seems to always improve his craft and has studied the successful QB' so yeah. The thing with Alex Smith is that you know what you have and it is never going to be anything but that. I think Gruden is going to be somewhat frustrated with him. I agree with everything you say. And I wanted to keep Cousins here. Unfortunately. He didnt want to play ball with this front office. Not that I can blame him in all honesty. But he really left the team with no choice except to move on. I am sure they wish they would have paid him after his 6 good games in 2014. But hindsite is what it is. I am not a Cousins hater. I think the guy will be successful for whatever team he ends up on. I was just pointing out some stats that helps make losing him a little less painful. One thing that will be different with Smith is we wont be seeing very many back breaking interceptions out of him. He just doesnt turn the ball over. Now the flip side of that is that he doesnt take many chances either. But that was one of the gripes about Cousins as well. I actually prefer Smith over Cousins because of his legs. He can run and it is a bug part of what makes him dangerous. Now, we are talking about a guy who will be 34 at the start of the season. So who knows when he will start to lesson that. But age didnt seem to slow him down last year at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 31 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said: Until after the year they realize that they screwed up. Then they're still on the hook for 70M guaranteed. The same guys who didn't want to guarantee Cousins 40M The insiders reporting on the contract have all been pretty clear that most of the guaranteed money after signing is for injury only so in all likelihood a lot less than 70M fully guaranteed. Won't know for certain until the deal is actually signed of course but that sems pretty likely. The 40M was after 1 season starting during which Kirk sucked donkey balls for the first 8 games and was 2 years ago when contracts and the cap were lower. I mean we could have got Dan Marino for less than Alex Smith if this was 1985. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcbothwel Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said: Kirk about to get [much] richer http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/27/packers-working-on-deal-for-aaron-rodgers-that-likely-surpasses-garoppolos/ Packers working on deal for Aaron Rodgers that likely surpasses Garoppolo’s I understand the need to keep him happy, but right now the Packers have Rodgers on a series of 1 year contracts for the next 4 years at about 90M. Thats about 20M each of the next two years of his contract and 2 Franchise tags. I dont see how giving him the Garoppolo deal is smart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 48 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said: Until after the year they realize that they screwed up. Then they're still on the hook for 70M guaranteed. The same guys who didn't want to guarantee Cousins 40M Bit of a problem with the numbers here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said: The thing with Alex Smith is that you know what you have and it is never going to be anything but that. I think Gruden is going to be somewhat frustrated with him Bruce's is getting the heat but I think Smith is 100% Grudens choice. He may get frustrated, but I'd wager he went all in for him. I said on here 12 months ago that he'd chase him and it's unfolded that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 11 hours ago, carex said: so, I'm seeing a claim, that Kirk isn't even going to negotiate during the legal tampering period The man's going to actually make it difficult for the people who want to give him ungodly sums of money All this discount talk is rubbish. He's going to want the best part of 30mil per year with most of its gtd. The talk that it's not about money may have some substance, but not much. He will be making a move that gives him a chance to cash in once more on another deal down the line. He's got two nice pay days lined up in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 27 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: All this discount talk is rubbish. He's going to want the best part of 30mil per year with most of its gtd. The talk that it's not about money may have some substance, but not much. He will be making a move that gives him a chance to cash in once more on another deal down the line. He's got two nice pay days lined up in his career. Totally agree. He might take $500,000 a year less for a contender but that is about it, no way he signs for less than Stafford or Carr and probably a lot more. Most of the conjecture is he wants a shorter deal, 3 or 4 years mostly guaranteed and then back to the market for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Boss_Hogg said: Kirk about to get [much] richer http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/27/packers-working-on-deal-for-aaron-rodgers-that-likely-surpasses-garoppolos/ Packers working on deal for Aaron Rodgers that likely surpasses Garoppolo’s I think the Rodgers deal would set the upper limit for Cousins. So, in some ways it could make the target more transparent to everyone else. It's one thing to pay Cousins a little more than Stafford or Carr or Garoppolo...but I'm not sure a team will go over what Green Bay pays Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Interesting to me that Green Bay is rumored to be working extension for Rodgers soon after it was reported the Vikings were clearing deck of all 3 QBs to bring in Cousins. Not sure if it's at all related, but maybe Green Bay would prefer to price Cousins out of Minnesota's grasp? Or at least make it harder financially on them. If I'm Green Bay, Cousins on that Minnesota team scares me a bit. Just an interesting thought I just had, not at all sure if it means anything or is related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: Interesting to me that Green Bay is rumored to be working extension for Rodgers soon after it was reported the Vikings were clearing deck of all 3 QBs to bring in Cousins. Not sure if it's at all related, but maybe Green Bay would prefer to price Cousins out of Minnesota's grasp? Or at least make it harder financially on them. If I'm Green Bay, Cousins on that Minnesota team scares me a bit. Just an interesting thought I just had, not at all sure if it means anything or is related. You are looking at things backwards and upside down. Green Bay is the one panicking because if Cousins signs for $30 million a year then Green Bay has to pay Rodgers well north of that amount. It is in Green Bay’s best interest to get Rodgers to sign before Cousins. Cousin has been pushing the price up over the past year to the benefit of all quarterbacks. They all owe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: If you don’t think Kirk will sign for more than what Alex Smith just signed for you’re crazy. He doesn’t need to have a microphone and explicitly say that for everyone who has been paying attention to know that. McCartney would look like an absolute buffoon if he acquired maximum leverage for his client and then allowed him to sign for less than what Smith just signed for. Kirk's agents job is to get Kirk what he wants and none of us really know what Kirk wants, we will learn that when he signs with a team. His priority might be to join a stacked team and have his best chance to win a couple of Super Bowls and play his way into the HOF and the money is secondary. That is my take on Cousins which means Minnesota is target 1A for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 9 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said: You are looking at things backwards and upside down. Green Bay is the one panicking because if Cousins signs for $30 million a year then Green Bay has to pay Rodgers well north of that amount. It is in Green Bay’s best interest to get Rodgers to sign before Cousins. Cousin has been pushing the price up over the past year to the benefit of all quarterbacks. They all owe him. Hmmmm could be. Although my theory is eventually the QB market will cap. If Cousins gets 30M it doesn't necessarily mean Green Bay HAS to give Rodgers more (even if he deserves it). I would hope Rodgers is smart enough to realize that while he could justifiably demand well north of what Cousins signs for, it will only affect the overall team around him in the long run. Locking him in at let's say 30M on the eve of free agency gives Cousins and his agent more ammunition to demand that on the open market. Which could make it hard for the Vikings to land him or severely hinder their team since they realize Rodgers is good enough to compensate for an average supporting cast and Cousins is not. Though Cousins would give the Vikings a nice 1-2 year window to win a SB, no matter the price. In reality, it's probably a combination of all of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said: Hmmmm could be. Although my theory is eventually the QB market will cap. If Cousins gets 30M it doesn't necessarily mean Green Bay HAS to give Rodgers more (even if he deserves it). I would hope Rodgers is smart enough to realize that while he could justifiably demand well north of what Cousins signs for, it will only affect the overall team around him in the long run. Locking him in at let's say 30M on the eve of free agency gives Cousins and his agent more ammunition to demand that on the open market. Which could make it hard for the Vikings to land him or severely hinder their team since they realize Rodgers is good enough to compensate for an average supporting cast and Cousins is not. Though Cousins would give the Vikings a nice 1-2 year window to win a SB, no matter the price. In reality, it's probably a combination of all of the above. Again...backwards and upside down. If Green Bay signs Rodgers for $ 30 million per then teams can then say that Cousins is not in the same elite level as Rodgers therefore worth less. Everything points to Green Bay feeling the pressure. Cousins is the driving force causing Green Bay to react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 17 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said: You are looking at things backwards and upside down. Green Bay is the one panicking because if Cousins signs for $30 million a year then Green Bay has to pay Rodgers well north of that amount. I doubt GB are panicking. Rodgers deserves a better deal, so that's a good a reason as any. Plus they could do with more cap space, talk of Cobb/Nelson on the bubble. Their GM also wants them to be aggressive in FA. Think they simply want to push on a notch so it's a case of bringing a few things in order. Getting his contract sorted being of primary importance to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Jimmy Garappolo has a $137.5 million 5 year deal that averages $27.5 million per year with $48.7 million GTD and $ 74.1 million GTD for injury. I see Cousins looking at a slight increase in average but higher GTD. So I can see Cousins being happy with a $140 million 5 year that averages $28 million per year....BUT....with three years GTD or $84 million. It is the GTD amount that is the most important and what will be the record. Keep in mind this is real GTD money not injury related. This will keep the average palatable for the team signing him yet fit the desire for more GTD years. This is where Cousin’s history of being durable makes him stand out among other top quarterbacks. Cousins has played every game during the past 3 years and has never sustained a major injury. Meaning his knees and shoulders are ‘clean’. Not many top quarterbacks can claim that and what will get him the record breaking total GTD money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, skinsmania123 said: Now do I think his trajectory upward is bound to continue? He seems to always improve his craft and has studied the successful QB' so yeah. The thing with Alex Smith is that you know what you have and it is never going to be anything but that. I think Gruden is going to be somewhat frustrated with him. I think that’s a bit harsh on Smith ... he has accomplished an awful lot but he was a slow developing guy no doubt ... but the 2017 of Smith was a step change in his development . In the year the chiefs draft his replacement he responds with the best performance of his career dismissing some of the criticism that he won’t take the shot ... There are flaws in both players games that perhaps no amount of want to will make them truely elite but it is churlish to say one will succeed and the other won’t ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: Kirk's agents job is to get Kirk what he wants and none of us really know what Kirk wants, we will learn that when he signs with a team. His priority might be to join a stacked team and have his best chance to win a couple of Super Bowls and play his way into the HOF and the money is secondary. That is my take on Cousins which means Minnesota is target 1A for him. I suspect he wants the above but also to paid Jimmy G (plus a little more) money. Minny clearly look right in play now, none of their 3 impending FA's rank at Kirks level. My view has always been Denver, just seems a fit, but we will see. It will be very interesting to see what news filters out on the Jets position. If Kirk is looking for a 'short term' almost fully gtd deal, say 3/85 or 4/115, the Jets could really force the issue. Are they prepared to go right over the top to get him, and if so, what would he do...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 28 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: I suspect he wants the above but also to paid Jimmy G (plus a little more) money. Minny clearly look right in play now, none of their 3 impending FA's rank at Kirks level. My view has always been Denver, just seems a fit, but we will see. It will be very interesting to see what news filters out on the Jets position. If Kirk is looking for a 'short term' almost fully gtd deal, say 3/85 or 4/115, the Jets could really force the issue. Are they prepared to go right over the top to get him, and if so, what would he do...... I view Cousins as a very grounded young man who can pass on the biggest deal because his ego doesn’t require setting a record and he isn’t shallow enough to define success in terms of $ first. I think success for him is about winning on the field and working with people he likes and respects, I doubt 10 or 20% more would move him from the best team to a lesser team. The more I think about it really looks like Minnesota. Both parties get their best shot at a Super Bowl together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Saw the guys on NFL Network this morning saying that Cousins is looking for a shorter term deal. Something like 3 years. So he can maximize his contract again at the end of it. If these reports are accurate you have to hand it to the guy for being different from anyone else as far as contract negotiations go. Although if I am team looking to break the bank for him I am not signing the guy on a short term deal. I want at least a 5 year commitment from him to be the face of the franchise. I just thought it was an interesting take from them. 3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: I view Cousins as a very grounded young man who can pass on the biggest deal because his ego doesn’t require getting the best deal and he isn’t swallow enough to define success in terms of $ first. I think success for him is about winning on the field and working with people he likes and respects, I doubt 10 or 20% more would move him from the best team to a lesser team. The more I think about it really looks like Minnesota. Both parties get their best shot at a Super Bowl together. The morning team on NFL Network disagrees with you completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The NFL Network guys might be right but I doubt it. We’ll learn what is most important when he signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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