The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Fair points. You can direct at me too, I've got thick skin haha. Interesting that Gruden really wanted Reuben Foster. If we'd have drafted him, Gruden would have been the key cog in that move. Guys stuttering over the mic 18 months later when put on the spot after the waiver claim.

 

But yes, get the point that he could be a good college evaluator. However, his man management skills appear poor. So, yep he's maybe a great scout, and OC in the right set up. 

 

 

As for evaluation skills, as Parcells liked to say if you bat 50-50 you are among the best in the business.  They all make many mistakes.  As for Foster, he is a good player, the issue with him is his personality.  Jay wasn't the only dude impressed with his talent, some draft geeks rated him a top 5 pick.  I know I've heard multiple times that Jay was the dude who fell for Ionnaidis and that was his guy.  But again if you got personnel people from around the league going out of their way to highlight Jay on that front -- then the word is out that he has a good eye for college talent.

 

And considering how hard it is to get the QB position right as is in the draft -- yeah I do trust the ex-QB Jay making that call by a mile over the other people in that building.

 

  

[Conn]

If Jay is gone, you'd think it's an entire house cleaning, so I'll take my chances that the next regime (GM/HC/staff) will be able to evaluate their own QB options. I'll take that risk over keeping Gruden around specifically to evaluate QB's I don't trust him to lead or coach. 

 

I'm not considering scenarios where we fire Gruden but keep Allen, because what's the point? 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

If Jay is gone, you'd think it's an entire house cleaning, so I'll take my chances that the next regime (GM/HC/staff) will be able to evaluate their own QB options. I'll take that risk over keeping Gruden around specifically to evaluate QB's I don't trust him to lead or coach. 

 

I'm not considering scenarios where we fire Gruden but keep Allen, because what's the point? 

 

That's a different point.  My point for me if they keep the whole gang, which sounds likely according to some who cover the team -- that to me is the one thing I'd like about it. 

 

There are zero reasons for me to want Bruce back.  As for Jay, I don't dislike him as a coach -- could they do better than him?  Sure.  Do I think they are likely going to do better?  Not really.   As for Bruce, I think it won't be hard to stumble on an improvement, where just about anyone will be better.  As for Jay, while I am not counting the days the way some here are as for him to leave-- I do get the desire for a change -- but if I were a betting man I think they are more likely to produce Zorn 2 than an improvement over Jay.

[RWJ]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  If they double down on the same band, wow.    But I'd say judging from some who cover the team, its almost slam dunk that it happens.

 

My one ray of hope is Keim.  Keim was among the group who said he expects the status quo but he was on that train before the Giants game.  After the Giants game, he changed his tune some and wrote an article about jobs are on the line potentially as to the last 3 games. 

 

I'd say if they finish 2-1 or 3-0, sounds like the band is all returning for sure.  1-2, I am guessing maybe.  The key shot I am gathering is 0-3 with a real stinker in that mix and major no shows for season finale against the Eagles.

 

But yeah its conceivable for me the more I think about it that an inept sounding Vinny can talk himself into major job security with Dan -- that a politician much smoother Bruce could do an even better job at convincing Dan that all is alright.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd say Bruce is telling Dan look hey the 6-3 is the real team.  Bad injuries derailed the season again.  We will win next year with Colt, groom a young QB behind him.  Guice will be back.  All this malaise with the fans is misdirected -- tell me what fan base isn't upset at the GM and or coach when they lose?  So its just par for the course.  The fan base will shrug it off once the 2019 season starts and we will start it on fire just like last year -- this year we will build our depth better so we can withstand the injuries, etc.  We will have a new announcement about the stadium next year, too -- here's what I got cooking.  This is not the time to reboot....

Maybe, just maybe Dan might look at the records of both Allen and Gruden and see what has been accomplished since their arrival.  That speaks for itself.

[Thinking Skins]

I really want to know who's making these moves because I do not want them in charge of personnel. Why did we ever bring back Marshall from IR? Why did we keep Perine  and now why have we cut Bibbs? He's been the second best RB on the team all year and we cut him because we have another RB who doesn't know how to block?

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I really want to know who's making these moves because I do not want them in charge of personnel. Why did we ever bring back Marshall from IR? Why did we keep Perine  and now why have we cut Bibbs? He's been the second best RB on the team all year and we cut him because we have another RB who doesn't know how to block?

I think this is a case of two bad chefs. You have to imagine Gruden is the bum who chose to make Bibbs inactive the last few weeks. That makes him the running back to cut. Sad thing is, it's a case of punishing production. Bad message to send to a team with morale problems.

 

Bibbs would have been respected and beloved by Gibbs during the glory years. He always had a few guys who shouldn't have been able to do it, but by grit, hustle, and study did so much better.  Bostic and Olkiewicz were the most famous examples, but there was Touchdown Terry Orr and a whole bunch of others. Bibbs deserves better. Problem is, Gruden or Allen are in love with the shinier car with the great specs.

[wit33]

It’s a Perine over Bibbs move, than a Marshal over Bibbs. I didn’t see much wiggle, or route running from Bibbs. He ran with solid power and burst though. 

[Thinking Skins]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It’s a Perine over Bibbs move, than a Marshal over Bibbs. I didn’t see much wiggle, or route running from Bibbs. He ran with solid power and burst though. 

Bibbs has like 3 tds in the year and has done a nice impression of last year's Thompson. The screen pass he took to the house was my play of the year before the AP run and the Crowder TD

[Skinsinparadise]

looks like Finlay concurs with the criticism

 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

59 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It’s a Perine over Bibbs move, than a Marshal over Bibbs. I didn’t see much wiggle, or route running from Bibbs. He ran with solid power and burst though. 

Perine was a draft choice and they'd rather get rid of an UDFA than a draft pick.  Silly!

[SkinsFTW]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

 Bibbs deserves better. Problem is, Gruden or Allen are in love with the shinier car with the great specs.

 

Bibbs should have found his way onto IR two times and he'd be a roster lock by now. Bruce Allen loves him some injury prone "talented" guys.

 

You'd think that by now, after how many years of 1/2 the roster being injured, that the injury issue would become the deciding factor but nope. Lets keep on deciding to roll with a bunch of Mr. Glass types and one of these years they'll all make it through the same NFL season.

[wit33]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Bibbs has like 3 tds in the year and has done a nice impression of last year's Thompson. The screen pass he took to the house was my play of the year before the AP run and the Crowder TD

 

Hes not a guy that’s going to make the first guy miss or beat LBs to the edge. Not saying it’s the right move, but I see the angle of Marahal being the more talented and natural back up to Thompson. 

 

Just saying the argument is more Bibbs versus Perine, in my opinion. 

 

Admittedly, I like Marahal and think he gots something to him. Don’t fault you if you feel similarly about Bibbs. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Skinsinparadise 2 things:

 

1. I don’t argue Gruden might be able to evaluate college talent. I also don’t really care if he can’t coach that talent.  He’s the damn head coach.  His primary job is to hire the best staff to coach the team, and make sure the players have the best chance of success with game palm and preparation.

 

He fails, and has failed spectacularly for 5 years at both.  

 

If he’s such a good talent evaluator, then move him to a front office positions hire a better coach.  Because he’s a BAD coach.  Not average.  BAD

 

2. Gruden is similarly awful about choosing talent to stick around.  You bring up thrash.  The Eagles actually also signed Thrash for the same reason Gibbs loves him.  The thing with Thrash is he produced, was well respected and had average NFL talent.

 

The reason Bibbs was cut is nexus Perone is a 4th rounder and Marshall is a Gruden guy.  Which is inexplicable.  Bibbs did nothing to deserve to be cut. 

 

Look, we’re probably going to be stuck with the same situation for another year or two before Dan catches on to the fact Bruce is incompetent and hired an incompetent coach.  

 

Thats what finally doomed Vinny.  even with the Rams roster, Jay wouldn’t get them past 9 or 10 wins because he’s just a bad coach.  He’d hire an incompetent DC, run his ridiculously predictable offense, and mis-manage games.  

 

It is what it is.  Bruce is a complete fool.  And one fool hired another.

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Look, we’re probably going to be stuck with the same situation for another year or two before Dan catches on to the fact Bruce is incompetent and hired an incompetent coach.  

 

Thats what finally doomed Vinny. 

 

I don't believe he ever will catch on, same with Vinny. Bruce probably isn't even the problem. It's likely Dan himself. Who has ran the circus for 20 years?

 

Didn't Vinny claim to have been fired because he didn't stop Dan Snyder from doing dumb stuff like hiring Zorn or going after Haynesworth?

 

Then immediately after hiring Bruce and Mike Dan Snyder decides that he would love to have him some McNugget and couldn't be talked out of it.

 

What has changed? Maybe Bruce actually stops some of the more moronic Dan stuff and he's appreciated for saving Dan from looking like even more of a buffoon.

 

Who is going to replace that and take all the heat caused by a bumbling idiot of an owner?

 

With the team setup the way it is, and has been since Marty, anything is possible but I doubt any claim that Dan Snyder is somehow going to finally see the light unless he finds another Vinny/Bruce somewhere first.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Skinsinparadise 2 things:

 

1. I don’t argue Gruden might be able to evaluate college talent. I also don’t really care if he can’t coach that talent.  He’s the damn head coach.  His primary job is to hire the best staff to coach the team, and make sure the players have the best chance of success with game palm and preparation.

 

He fails, and has failed spectacularly for 5 years at both.  

 

If he’s such a good talent evaluator, then move him to a front office positions hire a better coach.  Because he’s a BAD coach.  Not average.  BAD

 

2. Gruden is similarly awful about choosing talent to stick around.  You bring up thrash.  The Eagles actually also signed Thrash for the same reason Gibbs loves him.  The thing with Thrash is he produced, was well respected and had average NFL talent.

 

The reason Bibbs was cut is nexus Perone is a 4th rounder and Marshall is a Gruden guy.  Which is inexplicable.  Bibbs did nothing to deserve to be cut. 

.

 

I disagree with some of this.  I understand people clamoring for change.  Heck I said before the season if they don't make the playoffs regardless of context -- I'd get moving on from Jay and I still feel that way.  However, this Jay is a moron (hyperbole on my end to make a point) and a bad coach narrative I think is way over the top.

 

And while I agree with the sentiment of moving on.  I'd say at least 50-50 the next coach is a downgrade as opposed to an upgrade.  2 reasons behind that thought.  1. Dan is likely making the decision and the dude is incompetent and more concerned with hiring his next buddy then the most competent hire.  2.  Even if Dan gets his act together or makes someone else choose (I can see him leaving it to Doug who I don't trust on this front either but for different reasons), the best candidates are unlikely going to want to come here.  So I doubt the calvary is on its way -- hope am wrong, will see. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Joey T probably doesn't realize the can of worms he opened on twitter with that comment, Ive been reading some of them, funny stuff.  I am presuming Joe T is a Bruce guy.  I recall he was a Vinny guy. 

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

This last win likely cements that Bruce is coming back. Ugh.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RWJ]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 12:02 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

Joey T probably doesn't realize the can of worms he opened on twitter with that comment, Ive been reading some of them, funny stuff.  I am presuming Joe T is a Bruce guy.  I recall he was a Vinny guy. 

 

 

 

This is one time I hope Joe is right concerning a new GM.

[JCB]

Riddick would be great, but I think there's a very, very small chance he returns to a franchise he's repeatedly (and correctly) characterized as dysfunctional.

[Skinsinparadise]

Looks like Russell is going to be talking tonight about interest heating up around the league for Kyle Smith.

 

Dan let Kyle go to greener pastures, maybe give Bruce a 5 year extension and then tell people in the front office that you are still confused by the fan's issues with how the team rolls.

[HardcoreZorn]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Looks like Russell is going to be talking tonight about interest heating up around the league for Kyle Smith.

 

Dan let Kyle go to greener pastures, maybe give Bruce a 5 year extension and then tell people in the front office that you are still confused by the fan's issues with how the team rolls.

Or they will promote Smith as has been discussed they are grooming him for the role. Hope so.

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Or they will promote Smith as has been discussed they are grooming him for the role. Hope so.

Wasn't the word that Smith has hada larger role in player personnel, like with pro free agents now? That looks like they're moving toward promoting him instead of letting him go. 

[HardcoreZorn]

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

Wasn't the word that Smith has hada larger role in player personnel, like with pro free agents now? That looks like they're moving toward promoting him instead of letting him go. 

Agree, which is why I think Russell running around talking about his interest around the league is nothing more than an attempt to get fans riled up.

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Or they will promote Smith as has been discussed they are grooming him for the role. Hope so.

 

I was being sarcastic as to the Bruce promo.  Yeah the non brainer thing to do IMO is promote Kyle.  And yeah Russell himself has been among those pushing the narrative that the idea is to promote him but he also has said its not slam dunk.

 

15 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Wasn't the word that Smith has hada larger role in player personnel, like with pro free agents now? That looks like they're moving toward promoting him instead of letting him go. 

 

 

Yes as for FA -- it was Russell himself who reported that.  So yeah it could be.  But that's not 100%.  It's speculation that the idea is to promote him. 

 

13 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Agree, which is why I think Russell running around talking about his interest around the league is nothing more than an attempt to get fans riled up.

 

Maybe.  But I don't mind it.  Keim-Finlay among others have said some in that FO monitor the media-talk radio closely.  So if Russell has to beat into their heads that its a losing idea with fans to let Kyle go -- even if its just an off chance that's what they are thinking then I am more than cool with it.