The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Conn]

If we lost a promising young talent the locker room thinks should be playing...in favor of guys like Floyd and Chesson...well, that would be par for the course. 

[RandyHolt]

Have we kept Quick who doesn't even get targets, over him? I assume so.

 

Its says a lot when Crowder is the best WR we can develop in what seems like 2+ decades. 

 

Speaking of drops, Davis seems like he has had a lot of drops, yet Sprinkle doesn't even have a catch. Or maybe he finally got one last week when no one was watching.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’d really love to know who is responsible for this. Sure, he could end up being Taylor Jacobs, in the practice hall of fame.  But we’re trotting out Michael Floyd every week in desperate need of some hope at the position. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

26 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

This is all just so us.

 

Add that to the so us thread, lose a potential future superstar WR over stone hands Floyd, and yet still arent smart to enough to loot someones best QB they are trying to stash on the PS, and continue to get older and older at QB.

 

Vets out of the league >>> The future

 

Actually, vets out of the league ARE OUR future

I won't say Cobbs is a future potential superstar, but you've nailed my feelings on this.

 

With the injuries and the disaster this season has been, how utterly astounding is it that we are losing talent from our Practice Squad, rather than plundering it off of others'?

 

Just another testament to how completely inept our franchise is. It's mind-boggling.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

seems like we've been caught asleep on the job again.

[Skinsinparadise]

was just listening to Sheehan's podcast who had Mike Jones on it, Jones goes how much Dan depends on Bruce including Bruce representing Dan at owners meetings.  Then combining Jones' and Cooley's narratives looks like Bruce has convinced or is trying to convince Dan that the team is close to the promised land, 6-3, then injuries hit -- so don't break up the band when they are so close to breaking loose.

 

Sheehan seems to think that Dan in the end won't be so dense and realize the business consequences of bringing the gang back in the off season.  Will see.

[Est.1974]

This will be an all time low if Snyder doesn't see what's going on under his nose this time around. The last month has seen an almost complete implosion.

 

I can see a scenario where we lose another QB this week. Might end up with Sanchez back in the game and we could be trawling the streets for another QB.

 

I think the strike replacement players would give this current lot a game at the minute. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

This will be an all time low if Snyder doesn't see what's going on under his nose this time around. The last month has seen an almost complete implosion.

 

I can see a scenario where we lose another QB this week. Might end up with Sanchez back in the game and we could be trawling the streets for another QB.

 

I think the strike replacement players would give this current lot a game at the minute. 

 

 

 

Agree.  If they double down on the same band, wow.    But I'd say judging from some who cover the team, its almost slam dunk that it happens.

 

My one ray of hope is Keim.  Keim was among the group who said he expects the status quo but he was on that train before the Giants game.  After the Giants game, he changed his tune some and wrote an article about jobs are on the line potentially as to the last 3 games. 

 

I'd say if they finish 2-1 or 3-0, sounds like the band is all returning for sure.  1-2, I am guessing maybe.  The key shot I am gathering is 0-3 with a real stinker in that mix and major no shows for season finale against the Eagles.

 

But yeah its conceivable for me the more I think about it that an inept sounding Vinny can talk himself into major job security with Dan -- that a politician much smoother Bruce could do an even better job at convincing Dan that all is alright.

 

If I were a betting man, I'd say Bruce is telling Dan look hey the 6-3 is the real team.  Bad injuries derailed the season again.  We will win next year with Colt, groom a young QB behind him.  Guice will be back.  All this malaise with the fans is misdirected -- tell me what fan base isn't upset at the GM and or coach when they lose?  So its just par for the course.  The fan base will shrug it off once the 2019 season starts and we will start it on fire just like last year -- this year we will build our depth better so we can withstand the injuries, etc.  We will have a new announcement about the stadium next year, too -- here's what I got cooking.  This is not the time to reboot....

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I were a betting man, I'd say Bruce is telling Dan look hey the 6-3 is the real team.  Bad injuries derailed the season again.  We will win next year with Colt, groom a young QB behind him.  Guice will be back.  All this malaise with the fans is misdirected -- tell me what fan base isn't upset at the GM and or coach when they lose?  So its just par for the course.  The fan base will shrug it off once the 2019 season starts and we will start it on fire just like last year -- this year we will build our depth better so we can withstand the injuries, etc.

 

Thats just depressingly plausible from this lot. 

 

Not necessarily based on the last three results, my thoughts are that Dan won't tolerate another major embarrassment like the Giants game. He might buy 3 'competitive' defeats, but a major drubbing, maybe not.

 

Sadly, I'd like an across the field meltdown on Sunday. Imagine another 4 win team, or whatever the Jags are, hanging 30 plus points on us by half time from turnovers, special team screw ups etc. 

 

If someone turns us over in a big way I think Snyder cracks.

[skinzplay]

Trotting Floyd out there when you've got talent on the PS is not a pardonable offense. He was probably out there half drunk anyway. And I'm still scratching my head as to why Colt hasn't been placed on IR. That's another roster spot that could be used to sign someone to help the team. However unlikely it is, there is still a possibility that we could make the playoffs. It's laughable that they're trying to make a big deal about how they wanted to keep Cobbs.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Thats just depressingly plausible from this lot. 

 

Not necessarily based on the last three results, my thoughts are that Dan won't tolerate another major embarrassment like the Giants game. He might buy 3 'competitive' defeats, but a major drubbing, maybe not.

 

Sadly, I'd like an across the field meltdown on Sunday. Imagine another 4 win team, or whatever the Jags are, hanging 30 plus points on us by half time from turnovers, special team screw ups etc. 

 

If someone turns us over in a big way I think Snyder cracks.

 

Yeah judging by these narratives-sources if we want change, seems like we got to root for 0-3 and an embarrassment in that mix.  I've never rooted for a loss -- I've not minded some losses in the process of gaining draft position when seasons have been lost already -- but yeah all this talk about Dan looking for every excuse to bring the band back has given me some major cognitive dissonance about these last 3 games as for the outcomes. 

8 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Trotting Floyd out there when you've got talent on the PS is not a pardonable offense. He was probably out there half drunk anyway. And I'm still scratching my head as to why Colt hasn't been placed on IR. That's another roster spot that could be used to sign someone to help the team. However unlikely it is, there is still a possibility that we could make the playoffs. It's laughable that they're trying to make a big deal about how they wanted to keep Cobbs.

 

This team seems so driven by NOW versus the future.  I recall Finlay saying look even when they knew they were unlikely to bring back the previous starting QB, they didn't think of trading him and getting picks back because they just cared about the upcoming season and their best chances to win.  The Alex Smith trade was another win now IMO who cares about the future dynamic.   Keeping Colt off of IR for the off chance they make the playoffs?  Another example of that.  If they make the playoffs by the way wouldn't the starting QB be on some kind of roll?  They'd bench him once they made the playoffs for Colt?

[carex]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah judging by these narratives-sources if we want change, seems like we got to root for 0-3 and an embarrassment in that mix.  I've never rooted for a loss -- I've not minded some losses in the process of gaining draft position when seasons have been lost already -- but yeah all this talk about Dan looking for every excuse to bring the band back has given me some major cognitive dissonance about these last 3 games as for the outcomes. 

 

This team seems so driven by NOW versus the future.  I recall Finlay saying look even when they knew they were unlikely to bring back the previous starting QB, they didn't think of trading him and getting picks back because they just cared about the upcoming season and their best chances to win.  The Alex Smith trade was another win now IMO who cares about the future dynamic.   Keeping Colt off of IR for the off chance they make the playoffs?  Another example of that.  If they make the playoffs by the way wouldn't the starting QB be on some kind of roll?  They'd bench him once they made the playoffs for Colt?

 

well, Colt is more familiar with the offense, at the very least if Sanchez or Johnson kicked ass for us and got us to the playoffs, we could cut one of them and go with a superior backup

 

Our fanbase has shown no faith in our front office's ability to plan for the future, calling on them to embrace a total rebuild seems incredibly unlikely.  Seriously all the calls to me seem either poorly thought out or of people being dishonest with themselves.  "I'm sick of being around .500 every year!  I want to go 1-15 to 3-13!"

 

The total rebuild concept in the NFL actually seems like a lousy idea the way contracts and the cap are.  Has anyone ever gone from basement to champs on it?  I know some teams like Detroit have gone from worst in the league to around playoff level every year, but not quite there.  It's just like by the time you get one positioned strengthened and move onto the next the first batch is turning into free agents and yoiu can't keep everyone

[Voice_of_Reason]

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I were a betting man, I'd say Bruce is telling Dan look hey the 6-3 is the real team.  Bad injuries derailed the season again.  We will win next year with Colt, groom a young QB behind him.  Guice will be back.  All this malaise with the fans is misdirected -- tell me what fan base isn't upset at the GM and or coach when they lose?  So its just par for the course.  The fan base will shrug it off once the 2019 season starts and we will start it on fire just like last year -- this year we will build our depth better so we can withstand the injuries, etc.  We will have a new announcement about the stadium next year, too -- here's what I got cooking.  This is not the time to reboot....

That’s exactly what I would be peddling.  

 

I’ve sort of given up hope that Bruce and Jay will be gone. All I can hope for is that the plan is better than before, and we don’t rely on hurt guys again.

 

I am starting to think that Bruce has a sinister approach to this, by signing a bunch of guys who are always hurt he ensures the excuse of injuries when they get hurt.  Ok, that’s probably a reach....

 

If Jay and Bruce are back, they need an overhaul on the defensive coaching staff, and Jay needs to hire an OC.  

 

The thought of just bribing everything back exactly the same would be year 3 of exactly the same plan, and it will end the same way.

 

At some point Dan has to realize that the injuries are not just bad luck but also bad planning.  Well, maybe he doesn’t have to realize.  But he should.

[Burgold]

I haven't given up hope. There's really no reason to fire a coach in season and may not be many for cutting a Team President. Sure, it makes the mob feel good, but you aren't going to salvage a season and you are just adding to the chaos.

 

I'm hoping there's a plan. Yeah, I know, but still. There have been a number of other times where the season ended and Snyder moved quickly, decisively, and dramatically. And no one saw it coming. Kind of like the Shanahan hiring or the Marty hiring.

 

No one's heard a thing from Snyder including the beat reporters. Right now, we are the snake eating its own tail. We may continue this cycle of submediocrity with the Redskins blaming injury and how well their last two drafts graded out for an excuse to keep the status quo, but I hope that we see some substantive changes. On coaching, I wouldn't wholly be against giving Jay Gruden a lame duck year with the understanding that the team would probably be terrible. 

 

I just don't think the Redskins are attractive right now. The QBs injured and on the hook for such a large amount that the position can not be fixed. We probably won't be in position to draft a savior and this is a bad QB year anyway. You might sell a defensive minded coach that we have the clay to make something amazing, but the cupboard is UGLY on offense.

 

So, address the front office, get the best guy you can and give him a blank checkbook to build the best staff they can. If that's Kyle Smith... okay. If that's someone else... okay. Let them have a mulligan year as Jay or the new coach struggle with the plan to tank 2019 and grab one of the super QBs lining up in 2020.

 

But Bruce should go. Agents hate him. Other GMs dislike and distrust him. And he has a rep that is preventing this team from succeeding.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

The total rebuild concept in the NFL actually seems like a lousy idea the way contracts and the cap are.  Has anyone ever gone from basement to champs on it?  I know some teams like Detroit have gone from worst in the league to around playoff level every year, but not quite there.  It's just like by the time you get one positioned strengthened and move onto the next the first batch is turning into free agents and yoiu can't keep everyone

 

The problem is some of the teams that continue to tank like the Jets, Browns, etc have traditionally had bad management just like the Redskins do so the vicious cycle perpetuates regardless of the tanking.   But for example the Browns are trying to do things of late in the right way.  Having the first pick in the draft last year looks like finally helping them get the Qb position right.  Everyone talking about potential coaching jobs opening this year have said the Browns are a more attractive job than the Redskins now.  Part of that is about their young talent which was procured in part with high picks and having a real respected FO structure for a change. 

 

Am I pumping my fists that the Giants for example got Barkley last year?  Nope.  I'd rather they went 7-9 and got a lesser player.  I was at the Redskins -Cowboys game to end the 2015 season where the Redskins beat them in a meaningless game for both clubs and it ensured the Cowboys got E. Elliot.  I was laughing along with the rest of the Redskins fans leaving AT & T stadium.  but the Cowboys ended up getting the last laugh -- they lost that battle but won the war on that front.

 

So yeah I can care less if Bruce has mastered the 7-9- to 9-7 formula where it can go south with some bad luck and once every 4 years or so they can sneak into the playoffs and get knocked out immediately.  As one NFL pundit said recently, if you go through the rosters, the other NFC East teams are passing the Redskins by especially factoring the QB spot.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/recent-redskins-roster-decisions-wr-rb-baffling-light-simmie-cobbs-departure

Recent Redskins roster decisions at WR, RB baffling in light of Simmie Cobbs departure

 

The Redskins lost practice squad wide receiver Simmie Cobbs this week after the New Orleans Saints claimed the undrafted rookie. 

On its own, that's not major news. Cobbs showed promise in training camp and many around Redskins Park believe he has made a lot of progress working on the scout team this fall. 

Losing practice squad players happens, but the circumstances around Cobbs' departure are unique.

 

...As Cobbs explained, it bothered him that the Redskins did not want to sign him until New Orleans made a move. He called it a "no-brainer" to go to New Orleans. 

 

Frankly, Cobbs is right. 

 

For weeks, the Redskins have carried a bizarre five running backs on their 53-man roster, even as injuries forced significant churn on the offensive line. Washington has not kept more than three running backs active on game day, yet two more sit occupying roster spots. Adrian Peterson and Chris Thompson are absolute roster locks, but beyond that, none of the other rostered players have performed in a manner forcing the 'Skins to keep them. 

 

...Building a 53-man roster is like a jigsaw puzzle. Each piece must fit with the others, and players on the back end of the roster must be able to help on special teams. 

 

Cobbs would fit that bill. And this week seemed like the obvious time to bring him up as Josh Doctson worked his way back from the concussion protocol and the team was carrying just five WRs total. 

 

It's not like Washington was getting a lot of production at the receiver position anyway. Doctson's roster spot is locked in,

as is Jamison Crowder's but after that are questions. Mauirce Harris has always shown great hands but he's been on and off the Redskins roster. Veteran Michael Floyd was a midseason addition that has five catches in 10 games. Brian Quick and Jehu Chesson are both primarily special teams players. 

 

Cobbs, on the other hand, is an intriguing rookie with size and potential. 

 

...the Redskins reluctance to give Cobbs a chance, even without much production or potential on the bottom of the WR depth chart, made his decision to join the Saints an easy one. 

 

[RandyHolt]

Bruce is in a good spot. If we fail he can point to injuries wrecking our season.  And while there may be some truth to that, I think the lug nuts on the wagon were well loosened by the time Alex got hurt.  But we can be pretty certain Dan and Bruce were toasting 6-3 not long ago, reaffirming their bond.  If we do the unthinkable and weasel our way into the playoffs, of course it makes him less likely to get canned.  He has enough small fires appearing weekly, so the previous ones gets pushed out of the sight. That dog has a puffy tail! Here puff.

 

So I am thinking Bruce survives another year, no matter what.

 

Keeping Colt on the active roster is QB insurance should we make it in.  However, if JJ can spearhead us making it in, I don't want him to lose his job and would be pissed if Jay goes to Colt because he loves him some Colt.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That’s exactly what I would be peddling.  

 

I’ve sort of given up hope that Bruce and Jay will be gone. All I can hope for is that the plan is better than before, and we don’t rely on hurt guys again.

 

I am starting to think that Bruce has a sinister approach to this, by signing a bunch of guys who are always hurt he ensures the excuse of injuries when they get hurt.  Ok, that’s probably a reach....

 

If Jay and Bruce are back, they need an overhaul on the defensive coaching staff, and Jay needs to hire an OC.  

 

The thought of just bribing everything back exactly the same would be year 3 of exactly the same plan, and it will end the same way.

 

At some point Dan has to realize that the injuries are not just bad luck but also bad planning.  Well, maybe he doesn’t have to realize.  But he should.

 

To me there is one redeeming factor to this.   We've argued plenty about Jay and as I told you its not that i am in love with Jay as a coach but I think he's decent considering context and brings some strengths.  But as I said before the season, if they don't win this year, I am OK with getting rid of Jay if it involves Bruce too for a fresh start regardless of context.

 

Jay has his share of faults as a head coach.  But my main disagreement with you about him is about his personnel prowess.  The idea that the dude likes try hard types on his roster even if they aren't ultra talented -- he can join a big club on that front, if you listened to Joe Gibbs you'd think James thrash was Jerry Rice.  I even called in to a Q & A with him and pumped up James Thrash and you'd think Gibbs was in heaven and he complemented me for singling out Thrash.  When you got players screwing up assignments routinely and conversely have a dude that does everything right and can play multiple positions than the violins can come out.  That to me has nothing, nada, zip, to do with making evaluations for college prospects.  It's two totally different things. 

 

Jay's dad was a scout.  Scot told me to my face Jay is really good as an evaluator.   Cooley said he hears it about Jay a lot -- that he's the dude that knows his stuff as to evaluating college players.  When personnel guys around the league were asked to evaluate other teams drafts to an ESPN reporter -- the evaluator talking about the Redskins said Jay is the dude in the building that's the excellent evaluator.   And yeah from what I read Jay was the lead on picking Dalton (good pick for a 2nd rounder) when he was in Cincy.

 

So while I get the questioning Jay's motivational skills and play calling.  I am really rock solid on this one point.  There is nobody I trust more in that building to comb through lets say Drew Lock, Justin Herbert, Haskins, etc and figure out which will be successful.  Conversely, with Jay out of that building, I think the odds increase dramatically that they screw that up.  Do I think that alone is a reason to keep Jay?  No.  But on the other hand, I do think he will be instrumental in getting the QB position fixed -- if they are as determined to draft a young QB as some beat guys think they are. 

 

And this isn't me advocating to bring back the gang.  and if people disagree on this, fine, but for me its the key thing I'd hang on for some optimism. 

[XtremeFan55]

I think the fans need to think differently, bite the bullet and prepare and hope that Snyder keeps this inept FO and coaching staff together for another year... or two.   We all need to realize that the only real hope for change is a regime change starting with the owner.  Snyder is too toxic and while he just happened to luck into some money and was able to acquire the Redskins, he is way out of his league as an owner.  The only hope is for fan apathy and anger to get so great that it will appear impossible to Snyder to turn things around.  It has to reach the level that even if Snyder went out and hired Nick Saban and drafted the entire Alabama defense......and was able to trade for Mahomes....the fans will still stay away knowing that somehow and someway the wheels will still come off.   We need someone like Bezos who can easily buy the team,  build a world class training facility and finance a stadium. Someone new who will inspire confidence in the fan base.   Who will also run a first class operation that will draw the top people and players.   Snyder is on track to go down as the worst sports team owner is history and we need to be rid of him first before things get better

[carex]

well, seeing Cobb's reaction I can now say "**** you Cobb, you've been just as available for the Saints to sign for 14 weeks but it's the Skins who've been paying you for that time."

 

As for the roster management, I admit it's frustrating, but Quick was released weeks ago and as for the five RBs, Peterson is old, and Thompson, Marshall and Perine have all been injured this season

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, carex said:

well, seeing Cobb's reaction I can now say "**** you Cobb, you've been just as available for the Saints to sign for 14 weeks but it's the Skins who've been paying you for that time."

Yeah, how dare he be frustrated with outplaying the scrubs the Skins are lining up instead of him?  Better yet, how dare he choose to go to a winner, with a legitimate quarterback?

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So while I get the questioning Jay's motivational skills and play calling.  I am really rock solid on this one point.  There is nobody I trust more in that building to comb through lets say Drew Lock, Justin Herbert, Haskins, etc and figure out which will be successful.  Conversely, with Jay out of that building, I think the odds increase dramatically that they screw that up.  Do I think that alone is a reason to keep Jay?  No.  But on the other hand, I do think he will be instrumental in getting the QB position fixed -- if they are as determined to draft a young QB as some beat guys think they are. 

Tough call, but I think on balance I disagree here. Apparently Gruden would have rolled with Colt McCoy, still would next year. Won't last 6 games maximum. 

 

12 Months before we signed Alex Smith, I posted we'd sign him as our 2018 starter, and he'd be Grudens guy. Lots of politics and conjecture has followed, but they were not a fit as it transpired and now we're on the hook big time. 

 

Not clear where the truth lies, Smith or McCoy, who's finger prints are on what...etc etc 

 

Its murky water. But all told, at this stage I would not trust Gruden to grade our QB of the future. The guy can't call a timeout correctly.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Tough call, but I think on balance I disagree here. Apparently Gruden would have rolled with Colt McCoy, still would next year. Won't last 6 games maximum. 

 

12 Months before we signed Alex Smith, I posted we'd sign him as our 2018 starter, and he'd be Grudens guy. Lots of politics and conjecture has followed, but they were not a fit as it transpired and now we're on the hook big time. 

 

Not clear where the truth lies, Smith or McCoy, who's finger prints are on what...etc etc 

 

Its murky water. But all told, at this stage I would not trust Gruden to grade our QB of the future. The guy can't call a timeout correctly.

 

While its tough to tell how the soup was made on the Alex Smith deal, pretty to see Jay wasn't the lead on it.  One article talked about Kevin O'Connell taking the lead as for scouting Plan B for QB and was taken by Alex.  Another article talked about Jay not having the time to scout the college QBs yet before the deal was made.  Then we got the Bruce surprising Doug with the deal story from the WP.

 

Jay liking guys on his roster is totally different than scouting college players. And if he was that in love with Colt, they didn't respect his opinion on that front that much because they dealt for another QB anyway. 

 

This isn't directed at you but I get the whole Jay is a moron narrative (hyperbole to make a point) stuff that's in vogue as as the season is going south.  And while you can debate a lot of it -- motivational skills, locker room dysfunction, play calling -- I think its going a bit wild to also question his college personnel evaluation skills in the mix, too as a problem.  The one thing that most NFL pundits including those that aren't even big Jay people concede is that Jay knows his way around helping evaluate college players.  And like I said Scot made the very point right to my face. 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 This isn't directed at you but I get the whole Jay is a moron narrative (hyperbole to make a point) stuff that's in vogue as as the season is going south.  And while you can debate a lot of it -- motivational skills, locker room dysfunction, play calling -- I think its going a bit wild to also question his college personnel evaluation skills in the mix.

 

Fair points. You can direct at me too, I've got thick skin haha. Interesting that Gruden really wanted Reuben Foster. If we'd have drafted him, Gruden would have been the key cog in that move. Guys stuttering over the mic 18 months later when put on the spot after the waiver claim.

 

But yes, get the point that he could be a good college evaluator. However, his man management skills appear poor. So, yep he's maybe a great scout, and OC in the right set up.