The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[PF Chang]

John Lynch recently talked about how much Kyle Shanahan wanted Cousins in SF. They traded a 2nd for Garoppolo, a free agent the following year, so I think we could have had at least that. 

 

The team is run by people who would prefer to save face than to get the best deal, so of course they wouldn't trade him to SF. Similar reasoning for making the Smith trade. If Smith doesn't play well Bruce is gone. 

 

There is no plan. Are we rebuilding? Then why did we trade a good young player and a 3rd for a 34 year old QB? Are we trying to win now? Then why aren't we more active in FA? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Not only that, Lynch went so far as to say that Kyle was in mourning over not getting Cousins, after the trade for Jimmy.

 

I could care less but it laughs in the face of the narrative that “his buddy Kyle didn’t even want him” or that nobody would have traded for him last offseason.

[zCommander]

3 hours ago, PF Chang said:

There is no plan. Are we rebuilding? Then why did we trade a good young player and a 3rd for a 34 year old QB? Are we trying to win now? Then why aren't we more active in FA? 

 

There is a plan. Dan wants to win now. Bruce is out shopping in FA with his coupon book. 

[SkinsFTW]

9 minutes ago, zskins said:

Bruce is out shopping in FA with his coupon book. 

 

And somehow every year ends up maxing out the cap. While building an at best 8-9 win team year after year after year.

 

It'd be funny if we didn't already see this same ineptitude during his only other stint as GM in Tampa Bay where he also had a former Sb winning head coach.

 

Bruce Allen is like the Walmart shopper who saves a couple bucks by buying nearly expired "great value" hamburger and with this savings also stocked up on ketchup and mustard, while giving away their steak out front to the food drive.

[CommanderDOOM]

On 3/21/2018 at 5:33 PM, Rufus T Firefly said:

Waiting until July to find out if it was possible to re-sign him.

 

Either way, May is way too late. WAY too late.

Ok already he made a mistake. We should've traded him before the draft, maybe picked Beathard, rolled with Colt, drafted Kamara, got Campbell instead of the two Mcs, Alshon instead of Pryor etc.....

Bruce Allen is head of the 'dumbass class' for believing Kirk ever wanted to sign.

[skins island connection]

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:53 PM, kingdaddy said:

I would love to walk into the next meeting with Dan, Bruce, Jay, Doug and whoever else and say this:

"Listen up, when are you boys gonna figure it out that the way to become a dominant team in this league is to build the offensive line and get a stud running back in here? The last time we made a serious commitment to the run we made the playoffs with Alfred Morris, an unknown back, who dominated games. Back in our heyday we won 3 Super Bowls with a dominant offensive line and a commitment to the running game. Trade back in the first round, draft an offensive lineman and stud running back and commit to the run. Sign a run stopping lineman in free agency and grab one of the available safety's and get to work....this is not rocket science, the blueprint was drawn up by our own HOF legendary head coach so get your heads out of your asses and do what he did. Now all of you get the hell out of here and go do some soul searching."

The part in bold needs to be removed. That would indicate they would come back, and I prefer Bruce NEVER comes back.

[skins island connection]

19 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Keep in mind the league is cyclical. At some point everyone is going to go small. And then the large massive OL and strong running game will be extremely difficult to stop. 

 

But you cant totally go that route and sacrifice a passing game either with the league where it’s at currently.

Yea, it resembles guerrilla warfare. your opponent goes big, you go small. He is slow, you are quick. He is strong, you are agile.

It would be nice to have that advantage that Gibbs had back in the day, but it was something new to the league and caught everyone off guard [ no pun intended ].

 

BA doesn't know how to build a team based off of an idea. He's stuck in his own way of dealing with players, and has convinced Snyder that he has things under control, which he doesn't. This team needs to crash and burn. Rebuild with new people in place, new ideas, new perspectives. They're just placing a decent-at-best player in spots with little chemistry or objective in mind, hoping it will magically be very productive and shape a team. Gruden's ideas don't jive with what Allen and co. bring in. At some point they bring in a big splash FA like smith and expects fans to be overjoyed with it, without looking into the future of the direction the team is heading.

 

Allen has been a failure with this team as he's been on every other team, but that message needs to be driven into Snyder's head, but no one can get close enough to do it because of Allen's invisibility cloak.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

39 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

BA doesn't know how to build a team based off of an idea. He's stuck in his own way of dealing with players, and has convinced Snyder that he has things under control, which he doesn't. This team needs to crash and burn.

1

 

The problem with that is, the last three years under Allen have been the 2nd best 3-year stretch for the Redskins (in terms of records) since the Skins won the Super Bowl. The best 3-year stretch occurred during Snyder's first three years as owner. During that stretch, though, there were three different "GMs" handling each offseason: Casserly, Vinny and Schottenheimer. Also, regardless of what more recent accounts have said, back in 2015 when Gruden wanted Cousins to start, it was said that Bruce Allen didn't need convincing, he was already on board and supported the idea. The only person alleged to have needed convincing at the time was Snyder. So if we want to chalk up the last three years to Cousins being the starter, he was one of the reasons it happened.

 

If the Skins do well with Alex Smith this year, Allen ain't going nowhere lol...

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

18 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 Also, regardless of what more recent accounts have said, back in 2015 when Gruden wanted Cousins to start, it was said that Bruce Allen didn't need convincing, he was already on board and supported the idea. The only person alleged to have needed convincing at the time was Snyder.

Today would be the first time I've ever heard that.  I've always heard it as Jay and Scot "standing on the table" for Cousins to start to Snyder.  I've never really read anything about Bruce being one way or the other on it.  I can only think about how devastated Dan was in that room when the professionals are telling him that Robert is awful to the extent they can't afford to give him any more chances. 

[Llevron]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Today would be the first time I've ever heard that.  I've always heard it as Jay and Scot "standing on the table" for Cousins to start to Snyder.  I've never really read anything about Bruce being one way or the other on it.  I can only think about how devastated Dan was in that room when the professionals are telling him that Robert is awful to the extent they can't afford to give him any more chances. 

 

Yea I never heard that before either to be honest. Im not sure I believe it. Bruce doesnt seem smart enough to side with the people who are smart enough lol

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Today would be the first time I've ever heard that.  I've always heard it as Jay and Scot "standing on the table" for Cousins to start to Snyder.  I've never really read anything about Bruce being one way or the other on it.  I can only think about how devastated Dan was in that room when the professionals are telling him that Robert is awful to the extent they can't afford to give him any more chances. 

 

The original story said all of the decision makers at Redskins Park were on board with starting Cousins except one: Snyder. It was written at the time as if Snyder was standing in the way of his executives and coaches. That a 2-hr meeting between Scot and Snyder was needed before Snyder gave his "ok" to start Cousins. A few days after that it was stated in another story that the meeting between Scot and Snyder spent the majority of the time discussing how and why Griffin was one day cleared to play in concussion protocol, then later that same day that clearance was rescinded, and that almost none of the meeting involved anyone "standing on the table" to convince Snyder to let them start Cousins. Then, 2 years after that, a new version of the story came out by Jason Cole. This version had the meeting taking 4-5 hours, not 2...and this time, Scot had the 4-hour "stand on the table" meeting to convince Snyder AND Bruce, not just Snyder.

[XtremeFan55]

13 hours ago, PF Chang said:

John Lynch recently talked about how much Kyle Shanahan wanted Cousins in SF. They traded a 2nd for Garoppolo, a free agent the following year, so I think we could have had at least that. 

 

The team is run by people who would prefer to save face than to get the best deal, so of course they wouldn't trade him to SF. Similar reasoning for making the Smith trade. If Smith doesn't play well Bruce is gone. 

 

There is no plan. Are we rebuilding? Then why did we trade a good young player and a 3rd for a 34 year old QB? Are we trying to win now? Then why aren't we more active in FA? 

 

The more I read about Cousins, the more I realize that the Redskins let a great quarterback that was drafted and groomed by the team to just walk away for nothing.  This is insane and due mainly to Allen’s ego and Snyder’s inability to step in and overrule Allen for the good of the team.  I am now beginning to wonder if Allen is firmly entrenched as President of the Redskins by hiring and surrounding himself Tampa cronies and sycophants so that he is safe and un-fireable.  I also seriously wonder if he has something on Snyder to use as blackmail.  Tampa fans used to call Allen ‘The Dark Lord’ for a reason. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

The original story said all of the decision makers at Redskins Park were on board with starting Cousins except one: Snyder. It was written at the time as if Snyder was standing in the way of his executives and coaches. That a 2-hr meeting between Scot and Snyder was needed before Snyder gave his "ok" to start Cousins. A few days after that it was stated in another story that the meeting between Scot and Snyder spent the majority of the time discussing how and why Griffin was one day cleared to play in concussion protocol, then later that same day that clearance was rescinded, and that almost none of the meeting involved anyone "standing on the table" to convince Snyder to let them start Cousins. Then, 2 years after that, a new version of the story came out by Jason Cole. This version had the meeting taking 4-5 hours, not 2...and this time, Scot had the 4-hour "stand on the table" meeting to convince Snyder AND Bruce, not just Snyder.

Yeah, it's really hard to say what actually transpired.  I do recall Jay changing his tune in that offseason, naming Robert the starter, after he said it was a competition.  The whole world believed that was a Snyder call and for good reason.  Doesn't make any sense for it come from anywhere else.  However this is another small part of why Bruce Allen doesn't impress me.  Dan need's his right hand man to be the type to save him from himself.  At this point though it's just false hope that he'll ever hire somebody to tell him that his **** does indeed stink.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Yeah, it's really hard to say what actually transpired.

 

 

Absolutely. Plus, I just don't trust Jason Cole one iota lol...he's been so, soooo wrong soooooooo may times.

 

However this is another small part of why Bruce Allen doesn't impress me.  Dan need's his right hand man to be the type to save him from himself.

 

At best I'd say Allen "saves" the team from too much meddling from Snyder (some say Snyder's meddling is actually helpful in certain situations, though).

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

At best I'd say Allen "saves" the team from too much meddling from Snyder (some say Snyder's meddling is actually helpful in certain situations, though).

 

That is somewhat Cooley's theme.  Its funny to listen to him about Allen because he admits he's chummy with him and they chat.  Cooley has ripped a lot of Bruce's moves and he generally hates his approach in FA.  Today Sheehan and Cooley ran a segment of what approach in FA do fans like the best Bruce's approach or Vinny?  The underpinning of that debate was neither has been hot in FA but what is the lesser of the evils.   Cooley who has been hammering the FO's approach for weeks goes more or less he'd take Vinny's approach because at least they were shooting high.  I was floored by that.  But Cooley is very dour about this team's ability to judge pro level talent in FA.

 

But Cooley in other segments has sung the song that Bruce's main task is to tame the beast with Dan.  And to give Bruce some rare props from me, I accede we have no idea if Bruce has put the brakes on some crazy stuff.  I guess we likely will learn one way or another someday.  The stories tend to come out after people leave versus while they are in the building.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

 

[OVCChairman]

I'm finding myself more and more liking what I'm seeing from the FO and I'm not sure I like it... I'm a bit uneasy about this... 

[Llevron]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That is somewhat Cooley's theme.  Its funny to listen to him about Allen because he admits he's chummy with him and they chat.  Cooley has ripped a lot of Bruce's moves and he generally hates his approach in FA.  Today Sheehan and Cooley ran a segment of what approach in FA do fans like the best Bruce's approach or Vinny?  The underpinning of that debate was neither has been hot in FA but what is the lesser of the evils.   Cooley who has been hammering the FO's approach for weeks goes more or less he'd take Vinny's approach because at least they were shooting high.  I was floored by that.  But Cooley is very dour about this team's ability to judge pro level talent in FA.

 

But Cooley in other segments has sung the song that Bruce's main task is to tame the beast with Dan.  And to give Bruce some rare props from me, I accede we have no idea if Bruce has put the brakes on some crazy stuff.  I guess we likely will learn one way or another someday.  The stories tend to come out after people leave versus while they are in the building.

 

 

 

Off topic but when are you catching Cooley anymore? I used to hear him on the radio every morning but now I can never catch him. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Results. Results. Results.

 

Folks can come up with whatever they want to about how this FO structure is actually good and all that, that's fine.  But until it produces W's it means not a damn thing.  I personally find some of this stuff to be a real stretch such as giving Doug a big title and no power as some sort of good thing acting as a buffer between Bruce and the players, but uhhh - not buying it.  Bruce is still Bruce, still has the same track record he's always had.  It's up to him to change that narrative and I'm not buying it until I see it. 

 

Edit: And please miss me with the "...but this is the best 3 year stretch the team has had in decades".  I don't see middling as an accomplishment.  In fact, only here is that an accomplishment.  Now if middling turns to leading, then we are talking.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Off topic but when are you catching Cooley anymore? I used to hear him on the radio every morning but now I can never catch him. 

 

7-11 am 980, as always

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Edit: And please miss me with the "...but this is the best 3 year stretch the team has had in decades".  I don't see middling as an accomplishment.  In fact, only here is that an accomplishment.  Now if middling turns to leading, then we are talking.

 

Those 3 years have almost been single handily it seems about good QB play and Jay running a good passing offense.  I'd like to see them pull off another unit that's good besides just that one.  Otherwise we've come up with the formula to be 7-9, 8-8 like the Saints were for years until finally pushed through last year after a hiatus of mediocrity.  Granted that's an improvement.  But we should be better than peaking at this and celebrating it.  

 

The Vikings for example built a really good balanced roster.  A lot of the playoff teams have balanced rosters with multiple units that are good.  For me it will be welcome change if we develop another unit that's above average even if its just special teams for now.

 

The way the off season has gone thus far -- and granted it can change and I think it might -- its not a go for the kill approach like lets say the Vikings and the Rams who already have better teams than we do, etc.  Even teams that typically aren't aggressive like the Giants and Packers are more aggressive than we are this year.

 

And I get we are a snakebitten franchise and I've learned its tough for me to use the word aggressive without being hit back that I want Vinny Cerrato back.  But I'd like to see more aggression.   Some of us seem to think since Vinny = aggressive.  So aggressive = bad.  But it wasn't about that it was just IMO that Vinny and Dan were incompetent.  Aggressive plus incompetence = failure. 

 

The Bruce approach to me (with the caveat that this off season isn't over yet so it can change) is lauded by some as "smart" since he doesn't have the Cerrato style massive pitfalls.   But to me its not smart its just conservative -- plenty of bad moves in the mix, I doubt his hit rate has been better (I'll check though, i am curious) -- but you don't have the egregious black eye mistakes that you had with Cerrato.

 

I'd have Bruce's back as to his approach if he was more aggressive.  He still has some time to do it.  I'd like to see more boldness out of him. 

[Peregrine]

4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

The problem with that is, the last three years under Allen have been the 2nd best 3-year stretch for the Redskins (in terms of records) since the Skins won the Super Bowl. The best 3-year stretch occurred during Snyder's first three years as owner. During that stretch, though, there were three different "GMs" handling each offseason: Casserly, Vinny and Schottenheimer. Also, regardless of what more recent accounts have said, back in 2015 when Gruden wanted Cousins to start, it was said that Bruce Allen didn't need convincing, he was already on board and supported the idea. The only person alleged to have needed convincing at the time was Snyder. So if we want to chalk up the last three years to Cousins being the starter, he was one of the reasons it happened.

 

If the Skins do well with Alex Smith this year, Allen ain't going nowhere lol...

The problem with THAT is that 2 of those 3 seasons, the only winning seasons, were also the only years where Bruce Allen WASNT GM.

 

Bruce Allen, 11 years as a football GM and:

 

1. 2 seasons over 9-7.

2. A record of 73-103

3. A most recent 3 season record of 14-34.  

 

Unlike a fine wine, hes getting worse with age.  

[SkinFanInMinn]

6 hours ago, skins island connection said:

On 3/21/2018 at 8:53 PM, kingdaddy said:

I would love to walk into the next meeting with Dan, Bruce, Jay, Doug and whoever else and say this:

".... Now all of you get the hell out of here and go do some soul searching."

The part in bold needs to be removed. That would indicate they would come back, and I prefer Bruce NEVER comes back.

 

It would also indicate that all of them had a soul...  

[Wildbunny]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Edit: And please miss me with the "...but this is the best 3 year stretch the team has had in decades".  I don't see middling as an accomplishment.  In fact, only here is that an accomplishment.  Now if middling turns to leading, then we are talking.

I put this stretch more on Jay than anything else.

Considering what he've been given you can tell the guy is doing a good job.

 

But when it comes down to finding players. Geez, that hurts. Bruce always plays it low with quality guys that then go on and sign elsewhere. And often over pay for guys that come here for depth... (McClain?)

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

12 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

I put this stretch more on Jay than anything else.

Considering what he've been given you can tell the guy is doing a good job.

 

But when it comes down to finding players. Geez, that hurts. Bruce always plays it low with quality guys that then go on and sign elsewhere. And often over pay for guys that come here for depth... (McClain?)

I agree that it's definitely more about Jay and to a certain extent Kirk's play.  We've had one thing going for us since Jay got here and that's the ability to move the ball on offense.  It's primarily responsible for this decent stretch.  While I understand folks liking this new cheap philosophy with more emphasis on the draft, it really all boils down to whether that philosophy pays off. Thus far, it hasn't.  In previous stints, it didn't payoff either.  I'm not begrudging anyone their more optimistic point of view but they've got to show me more than what I've seen to obtain any buy-in from this guy.