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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread


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Reading some of the current news on Cousins.  Mike Zimmer talked to both Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan at the league meetings down in Orlando...both raved about Cousins.  On top of that John Lynch the GM of the 49ers stated that Shanahan desperately and ‘really, really, really wanted Cousins’.  Then you read that Gruden considers Smith an upgrade over Cousins and that Allen didn’t place a very high value on him.

 

Whom would you tend to believe?  Two former OC who are now HC’s and highly respected who do not just like Cousins...they RAVE about him and desperately would have tried to sign him if it wasn’t for certain events.  They both know Cousins inside out....better than anyone else out there.  Or...would you believe a petty, unqualified, incompetent GM/President wannabe and his lackey coach whose job depends on pleasing the boss?

 

I know who I would believe.

 

I don’t think Allen is qualified to run a Lemonade Stand.  Imagine him trying to sell real estate and placing a value on a house based solely on the size and construction and ignoring the location that could be on the Potomac River with beautiful views of Great Falls.  

 

Man...is he screwing this team up big time.

 

Like I read above...it’s enough to wish for Vinny Cerrato to come back.  

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The structure of Smith’s deal allows the Redskins to spread out the cap numbers over the length of the deal. With Cousins’ deal fully guaranteed, the Vikings don’t have that flexibility. Smith’s cap hits over the next three seasons are $18.4 million in 2018, $20.4 million in 2019 and $21.4 million in 2020. Then, Washington can get out of the deal if it wants to add a younger quarterback. Smith’s cap numbers are still good for 2021 ($24.4 million) and 2022 ($26.4), too.

At no point during this contract is Smith’s salary untenable, which allows the Redskins to re-sign some of their own younger players and be active in free agency. Cousins’ cap number will never be lower than $28 million.

 

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Three years from now, there will likely be a number of quarterbacks making $30 million or more per season, while the Redskins will still have Alex Smith at $21.4 

https://nflspinzone.com/2018/03/22/washington-redskins-alex-smith-contract-bargain/

Edited by Spearfeather
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1 hour ago, XtremeFan55 said:

Reading some of the current news on Cousins.  Mike Zimmer talked to both Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan at the league meetings down in Orlando...both raved about Cousins.  On top of that John Lynch the GM of the 49ers stated that Shanahan desperately and ‘really, really, really wanted Cousins’.  Then you read that Gruden considers Smith an upgrade over Cousins and that Allen didn’t place a very high value on him.

 

Whom would you tend to believe?  Two former OC who are now HC’s and highly respected who do not just like Cousins...they RAVE about him and desperately would have tried to sign him if it wasn’t for certain events.  They both know Cousins inside out....better than anyone else out there.  Or...would you believe a petty, unqualified, incompetent GM/President wannabe and his lackey coach whose job depends on pleasing the boss?

 

I know who I would believe.

 

I don’t think Allen is qualified to run a Lemonade Stand.  Imagine him trying to sell real estate and placing a value on a house based solely on the size and construction and ignoring the location that could be on the Potomac River with beautiful views of Great Falls.  

 

Man...is he screwing this team up big time.

 

Like I read above...it’s enough to wish for Vinny Cerrato to come back.  

 

Any quotes as to how past OCs/head coaches viewed Alex Smith as well?

 

Because I know it's not just Gruden and Allen who think that highly of the guy.

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4 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Any quotes as to how past OCs/head coaches viewed Alex Smith as well?

 

http://www.richmond.com/redskins-xtra/you-re-not-going-to-run-out-of-gigabytes-with/article_d88fe3fd-adfd-572b-9b28-8a5103d9249c.html

 

Smith’s old coach, Andy Reid of the Kansas City Chiefs, said he wanted to make sure Smith landed in a good spot when he was traded.

“You’re talking about the No. 1-ranked quarterback coming out this year, and I don’t think he’s hit the ceiling yet,” Reid said.

“He’ll be eager to get in there and get Jay’s stuff down. I think he and Jay will hit it off. I have a lot of respect for Jay as an offensive coach, and this is how much respect (general manger Brett Veach) and I had, was to get him in a place where he can win and be with a good offensive line.”

Reid said Redskins fans will be impressed with Smith’s ability to process information.

“His ability to change things at the line of scrimmage is phenomenal,” Reid said. “You’re not going to run out of gigabytes with the dude. His capacity to learn and still function at a high rate is second to none.”

 

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Reid loves Alex Smith so much that he moved up in the draft last year for his replacement and traded him this year. 

 

I like Smith and think he's going to be fine for us. But let's try some common sense. That goes for Jay too, obviously he's not going to say that we downgraded or anything else people can spin negatively. 

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If you really really love a QB whom you think is so great, then you try to get them instead of sticking with Geoff or in the 49ers case, trading for an unproven Jimmy G. Just saying.

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24 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

Reid loves Alex Smith so much that he moved up in the draft last year for his replacement and traded him this year. 

 

 

 

Which was damn smart to do. Find your 32 yr old starting QB's replacement now, don't wait until the last minute. If you think he'll be ready sooner rather than later, trade your now-33 yr old starting QB for a good draft pick (or a decent draft pick and a good player). I'm hoping the Skins do the same next year in the draft and go for a QB they truly believe in to be a franchise QB. The Chiefs waiting one more season lowers Smith's trade value (cuz of age) and he'd be weeks away from free agency, further lowering his trade value. And let's not forget that the Chiefs' cap situation for 2018 was looking grim...but I'm sure shaving off $17M from the cap  by trading Smith when you were projected to be $11M+ over the cap had nothing whatsoever to do with the decision. Snippet from an article that expected Smith to remain with the Chiefs:

 

"Of course, the assumption I speak of revolves around the final year of his contract, the elephant in the room. We are also armed with the reality that the Chiefs have the worst cap space in the league this offseason. The $17m cap saving in trading Smith gives further credence to the majority who see no room for him in the 2018 destiny of the team."

 

People act like the only thing Reid thought about was "Smith isn't really that good, time to move on."  That's laziness.

Edited by Califan007
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57 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Which was damn smart to do. Find your 32 yr old starting QB's replacement now, don't wait until the last minute. If you think he'll be ready sooner rather than later, trade your now-33 yr old starting QB for a good draft pick (or a decent draft pick and a good player). I'm hoping the Skins do the same next year in the draft and go for a QB they truly believe in to be a franchise QB. The Chiefs waiting one more season lowers Smith's trade value (cuz of age) and he'd be weeks away from free agency, further lowering his trade value. And let's not forget that the Chiefs' cap situation for 2018 was looking grim...but I'm sure shaving off $17M from the cap  by trading Smith when you were projected to be $11M+ over the cap had nothing whatsoever to do with the decision. Snippet from an article that expected Smith to remain with the Chiefs:

 

"Of course, the assumption I speak of revolves around the final year of his contract, the elephant in the room. We are also armed with the reality that the Chiefs have the worst cap space in the league this offseason. The $17m cap saving in trading Smith gives further credence to the majority who see no room for him in the 2018 destiny of the team."

 

People act like the only thing Reid thought about was "Smith isn't really that good, time to move on."  That's laziness.

 

I think it's a great move for them. I'm sure the cap was a big factor.

 

But they're a Super Bowl contender and QB is the most important position on the field. They can't cut or trade anyone else if he's that important? They just signed Sammy Watkins for $16M a year. I'd think if they viewed Smith as great, they would have just extended him instead of giving up #27, a 3rd, and their 2018 first rounder to get Mahomes. 

 

This is also the second time Smith has been traded from a Super Bowl contender, San Francisco did the same thing. 

 

I don't think that Reid's logic is "Smith isn't really that good, time to move on." But it might be "Smith is average, and I know exactly who to call if I want to get a nice return from an old QB." 

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5 hours ago, XtremeFan55 said:

Reading some of the current news on Cousins.  Mike Zimmer talked to both Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan at the league meetings down in Orlando...both raved about Cousins.  On top of that John Lynch the GM of the 49ers stated that Shanahan desperately and ‘really, really, really wanted Cousins’.  Then you read that Gruden considers Smith an upgrade over Cousins and that Allen didn’t place a very high value on him.

 

Whom would you tend to believe?  Two former OC who are now HC’s and highly respected who do not just like Cousins...they RAVE about him and desperately would have tried to sign him if it wasn’t for certain events.  They both know Cousins inside out....better than anyone else out there.  Or...would you believe a petty, unqualified, incompetent GM/President wannabe and his lackey coach whose job depends on pleasing the boss?

 

I know who I would believe.

 

 

 

So the unqualified, incompetent GM got a deal done for a QB that the " football guy " ( who also knows Cousins inside out ) considers an upgrade over him ?.

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5 hours ago, XtremeFan55 said:

Reading some of the current news on Cousins.  Mike Zimmer talked to both Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan at the league meetings down in Orlando...both raved about Cousins.  On top of that John Lynch the GM of the 49ers stated that Shanahan desperately and ‘really, really, really wanted Cousins’.  Then you read that Gruden considers Smith an upgrade over Cousins and that Allen didn’t place a very high value on him.

 

Whom would you tend to believe?  Two former OC who are now HC’s and highly respected who do not just like Cousins...they RAVE about him and desperately would have tried to sign him if it wasn’t for certain events.  They both know Cousins inside out....better than anyone else out there.  Or...would you believe a petty, unqualified, incompetent GM/President wannabe and his lackey coach whose job depends on pleasing the boss?

 

I know who I would believe.

 

I don’t think Allen is qualified to run a Lemonade Stand.  Imagine him trying to sell real estate and placing a value on a house based solely on the size and construction and ignoring the location that could be on the Potomac River with beautiful views of Great Falls.  

 

Man...is he screwing this team up big time.

 

Like I read above...it’s enough to wish for Vinny Cerrato to come back.  

Yea man, Shanahan wanted Cousins so bad that the 49ers traded a 2nd round pick for the unproven Jimmy Garoppolo.  Right on, bud.

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5 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Yea man, Shanahan wanted Cousins so bad that the 49ers traded a 2nd round pick for the unproven Jimmy Garoppolo.  Right on, bud.

 

A year after we probably refused to trade Cousins to SF. 

 

Is there any reason John Lynch would lie about Shanahan/Cousins? 

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1 minute ago, PF Chang said:

 

A year after we probably refused to trade Cousins to SF. 

 

Is there any reason John Lynch would lie about Shanahan/Cousins? 

I think we all knew Shanahan liked Cousins and figured the Niners would go after him.  Does that mean that Shanahan didn’t think Garoppolo is better?  

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10 minutes ago, -JB- said:

Yea man, Shanahan wanted Cousins so bad that the 49ers traded a 2nd round pick for the unproven Jimmy Garoppolo.  Right on, bud.

Shanahan was in “mourning” after the the trade for Jimmy.  Per Lynch.  Because his grand plan was to get Cousins.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Shanahan was in “mourning” after the the trade for Jimmy.  Per Lynch.  Because his grand plan was to get Cousins.

Kudos to John Lynch.  Shows how inept Shanahan truly is.

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7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Do you guys still really believe that Kyle was the problem here?  I’d be inclined to disagree that he is inept.  There is quite a bit of data that supports my opinion.

Sometimes guys let familiarity skew their judgement.  Good thing John Lynch acted as a leader of men and brought in the better passer.  

 

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Why oh why are we still talking about Kirk? He's not a Redskin.

 

I have never seen someone with such little accolades (talking wins, performing big in big moments, playoff appearances, playoff wins) divide a fan base more than Kirk.

 

If this franchise had any semblance of prolific passers in its recent history, this wouldn't be such a big deal. He just looked great compared to what we've thrown out there the past 20+ seasons.

 

Of course Shanny wanted him. His father drafted and loved the guy. How badly do you think Shanny wanted to land cousins and win with him to stick it to the Redskins? That's why he was "mourning", not because he's a top 5 Quarterback.

 

He's a good quarterback not worth the ridiculous contract he parlayed his leverage into. Good for him. Time to move on though.

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And with that last post, I’ve got to say my favorite posts and tweets lately are from the “move on” and “why are we still talking about him” crowd. 

 

Here, they say that, then proceed to give their two cents on him without a hint of irony. Yup, move on everyone, but before you do I’m going to say something antagonistic and likely to draw a response, trash the dude in the process based entirely on my narrative that has plenty out there to refute it or at least bring it into question, but hey! We all should move on after I finish because I don’t get why we’re still talking about him, thanks guys! :ols: 

 

On twitter, you’ll find them commenting on tweets that are positive about Kirk. Move on! You idiots in the media are obsessed! Talk about something else, shut up about Kirk!

 

 The negative tweets? The same exact crowd retweeting, joining in on the bash-a-thon, and just generally doing anything but “moving on”. 

 

Awesome. :ols: 

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11 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Do you guys still really believe that Kyle was the problem here?  I’d be inclined to disagree that he is inept.  There is quite a bit of data that supports my opinion.

I knew it was impossible, but there was a strong part of me that wanted to dump Mike, Haslett, but keep Kyle. The offense was not the problem. Kyle Shannahan was too adverse to running the ball, but otherwise was innovative and effective. Heck, he even found a way to make RGIII the best quarterback in football for a season.

 

That said, Mike Shanahan's teams were dreadful. With the exception of the miracle RGIII season, they couldn't win more than six games a year. Mostly, that was on the defense, but there's a reason why Mike left trying to burn down every bridge in the DMV. I don't know what the fan base would have done if somehow we either promoted Kyle or just forced him to stay despite canning his Dad.

 

He was good here, good in Atlanta, and good before he got here, but was often derided as a nepotism hire. That said, ultimately, you have to win more than six games a season to keep your job.

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12 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Why oh why are we still talking about Kirk? He's not a Redskin.

 

I have never seen someone with such little accolades (talking wins, performing big in big moments, playoff appearances, playoff wins) divide a fan base more than Kirk.

 

If this franchise had any semblance of prolific passers in its recent history, this wouldn't be such a big deal. He just looked great compared to what we've thrown out there the past 20+ seasons.

 

Of course Shanny wanted him. His father drafted and loved the guy. How badly do you think Shanny wanted to land cousins and win with him to stick it to the Redskins? That's why he was "mourning", not because he's a top 5 Quarterback.

 

He's a good quarterback not worth the ridiculous contract he parlayed his leverage into. Good for him. Time to move on though.

 

For the same reason why we will be talking about Shanahan...Cerrato...RG3...Arrington...Bruce Smith....Gibbs....Portis....Turner...etc... forever.  You can’t just sweep them under the rug and forget about all these coaches, players and GM’s just because they left.  There are lessons learned and must not be forgotten with each of them.  Cousins and RG3 are two of the biggest lessons of all of how not to run a team.  You forget the lessons then you are doomed to repeat.  Besides which..Cousins seems to hold a lot of the team passing records and if he had not left it is conceivable that his name would have been added to the Ring of Honor.  But I understand the emotion...you feel jilted and are still feeling the pain of losing the best quarterback the Redskins have had in over 20 years and you don’t want to continually be reminded.  Like salt on a open wound.  Some of us have looked beyond the ‘team’ and are happy for people who have left such as Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan and Cousins.  I wish them all well and want to see them succeed.  No hard feelings here with me.

Edited by XtremeFan55
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21 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

It recently occurred to me that Bruce Allen is a millionaire Republican who has a job because of his last name and who drinks Coors Light in some weird nod to being a Joe Sixpack. I want Vinny back. At least I could relate to him as fellow member of the "nice looking Italian fellas" club.

 

When I was in Richmond for camp for a few days, I was eating at an Irish bar outdoors across the street from Mortons -- Bruce walks by wearing what it looked like a casual t-shirt and a ragtag looking pair of shorts and walked into Morton's wearing that.  That added to me --to the Bruce is a man of the people mystique image. :)

 

I haven't really commented here about Kirk of late but reading through the posts here on it -- I'll cap my swan song on the subject this way. Bruce more or less admitted to Finlay the other day that they decided to move on from Kirk in 2017 but didn't want to trade him that year because he was all in for winning in 2017 and that's all that mattered to him -- to me that says it all.  And it should IMO say it all regardless of what you think of Kirk as a player.  I am not going to even add any editorial to it aside from can you imagine Andy Reid and Howie Roseman act that way?  

 

I listened to a podcast from Finlay who interviewed Jay saying his vibe from being around Jay is that he's frustrated so far by the FO's approach to FA.  Finlay goes when Jay told him before FA that they will be aggressive, it felt that he meant it. Ditto Doug.  Granted there is some time still for it to play out and I think more is coming.  I am just saying that for those who say that Jay and Bruce are joined at the hip making these decisions -- I wonder.  The other part of this was Jay apparently somewhere said that he didn't have a chance to watch the young QBs in the draft before the Alex Smith deal was done.   The thought there is Bruce trusted his college scouts without Jay's input in that regard. 

 

Now, I am not saying there is anything wrong with the process of personnel people dictating personnel decisions -- I am just questioning the idea that Jay is a heavy part of it.  Cooley-Sheehan joked about that today with Cooley more or less saying he trusts Jay the most in player evaulating and Sheehan kicked in saying Scot said the same -- but then Sheehan goes well we know they don't per se use Jay in that way a heck of a lot -- or enough.

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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