The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skin'emAlive]

Bruce was invited to talk about Haskins and the draft because Max Kellermam is a diehard Giants fan, the media loves and loves to hate NY franchises, and it’s Giants bashing season. 

 

He was not invited to talk about Foster because it was an ongoing investigation based on a topic the league would rather not discuss. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I remember watching Haskins throw darts in the first OSU game I saw last year and thinking “where have they been hiding this guy?” And when I found out he was a junior, I thought he would look good in B&G but we probably wouldn’t suck bad enough to draft him.

 

I have plenty of problems with Jay, but I have long wondered why fans seem to think he can’t develop a QB. I would think that would be one of his strengths. He will lean on the running game and call plays that Haskins is comfy with.

 

Jay is probably a little skeptical like most of us, but as soon as he sees Haskins throwing bullets to Reed up the seam during OTAs, he will fall in love.

 

I think Haskins wins the locker room and the job for opening day.

 

 

 

[Skin'emAlive]

 

Additionally Albert Haynesworth’s demise stemmed from shanahan changing the defense from 4-3 to 3-4 base and asking Al to play the nose rather than DT like the tanned douche lord that he was. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Diana is far from alone with that narrative which has been documented on other threads (but who knows) but IMO if true its still spilled milk.    Among the people who have similar versions to her story like Hoffman have said Jay has turned the page and is excited to work with the dude.  Jay is far from perfect but I think he has some QB whisper in him.  I am not as infatuated as some others are on the board with Haskins.  But heck I was infatuated with RG3 so what do I know? 😀 

 

I am not a bash the media who cover the team kind of guy but I do make some exceptions on that front and one of them is Jason Reid.   Reid IMO is a miserable dude.  So when we get some optimism from the dude who would scream on every roof top post 2012 that RG3 is or will be a bust -- hell is freezing over.  And he loved throwing negativity on just about endeavor they had.   And now he's saying Haskins is the guy?   Good sign perhaps. 

 

 

 

[Art]

45 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

@Art does this sound like agenda-driven sensationalizing or accurate report of nasty internal dissent?

 

All I know about Diana is Mrs. McCloughan's tweets, which themselves are of dubious credibility, so hard to contextualize her reporting effectively...

 

Well, given she was giving Scot hummers for insider info when Scot was here, what are the chances she's maintained inside sources with him gone?   She has none.    She's trying to buff her false story heading into the draft by lending itself credence.   That's ALL she's doing.   That's all she'll do until someone else agrees to get a hummer I suppose.   I'm going to tell you right now, Gruden, who is the coach of the offense, was not upset the Redskins didn't take another defensive player at No. 15.   That's one you can take to the bank.   I am willing to say this as well.   While Haskins was Gruden's favorite QB in this draft, Gruden didn't want him, though not in a negative way.   Why?   Because he feels he can win with Colt.   If that sounds familiar, that may sound like Spurrier and Wuerffel, or Shanny and John Beck.   Coaches love players.   Sometimes more than anyone else can believe.   And that's why personnel departments exist. 

Gruden knows he's likely done if we suck this year.   He feels vets give him a better chance to win at QB than a rookie does.   He's probably right about that.  

[CapsSkins]

19 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Well, given she was giving Scot hummers for insider info when Scot was here, what are the chances she's maintained inside sources with him gone?   She has none.    She's trying to buff her false story heading into the draft by lending itself credence.   That's ALL she's doing.   That's all she'll do until someone else agrees to get a hummer I suppose.   I'm going to tell you right now, Gruden, who is the coach of the offense, was not upset the Redskins didn't take another defensive player at No. 15.   That's one you can take to the bank.   I am willing to say this as well.   While Haskins was Gruden's favorite QB in this draft, Gruden didn't want him, though not in a negative way.   Why?   Because he feels he can win with Colt.   If that sounds familiar, that may sound like Spurrier and Wuerffel, or Shanny and John Beck.   Coaches love players.   Sometimes more than anyone else can believe.   And that's why personnel departments exist. 

Gruden knows he's likely done if we suck this year.   He feels vets give him a better chance to win at QB than a rookie does.   He's probably right about that.  

 

Makes sense. "Redskins FO dysfunction" has become such a tired trope for NFL reporters, they trot it out even when it doesn't make sense. Who could have been so upset for not trading up for Dwayne Haskins with no long-term QB solution in the building?

 

Your point about the team's fate living and dying by QB play is a good one. We've built our team enough to the point where we should be at least 8-8 this year, though I'm not sure we can go 10-6 with Colt/Case/rookie Dwayne under center. What do you think Gruden needs to accomplish to stick around -- a winning season or a playoff berth?

 

Frustration with the D-coordinator aside, I like we've had 6 years of stability at HC (and thus Offense) and am optimistic about Haskins' potential with this staff. Would hate to see Jay (who I think is a fine coach, not great but give him the LA Rams roster and I wonder how much praise he'd get thrown on him vs. McVay) get cut just as he finally gets QB talent to work with.

 

On the plus side, no HC candidate with options would pick a team that has no long-term solution at QB. Redskins now have more than enough pieces to be an attractive coaching destination should we decide to enter that market.

[Dissident2]

43 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Well, given she was giving Scot hummers for insider info when Scot was here, what are the chances she's maintained inside sources with him gone?   She has none.  

 

Does no one else in that building appreciate hummers? 

 

In all seriousness, I'm not at all saying she should be believed without question, but, again, it was an interesting listen. 

 

She also said "the football people" would've preferred Jones to Haskins if they had the chance. "That's a fact," she added. 

 

She DID also add, at the end, that despite the friction over the first pick, everyone is generally really happy about the overall draft results. 

[Art]

22 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

 

Does no one else in that building appreciate hummers? 

 

In all seriousness, I'm not at all saying she should be believed without question, but, again, it was an interesting listen. 

 

She also said "the football people" would've preferred Jones to Haskins if they had the chance. "That's a fact," she added. 

 

She DID also add, at the end, that despite the friction over the first pick, everyone is generally really happy about the overall draft results. 

 

Of course she did.   It's total fiction.   Total and complete.   Before the draft it was mysteriously released the Redskins may move up, but not for Haskins, but for Jones.   This was a ploy for the Giants to maximize us NOT having to move up for Haskins by goading the Giants into using their pick to better assure a fall.   There was ZERO organization disagreement that Haskins was better than Jones.   

 

We clearly DID know their preference though.   The Giants have a more leaky ship than we do.   And that's why we did what we did.   We wanted them to believe it was No. 6 for Jones or bust.   And they did.   

Russini merely reveals the complete lack of sourcing she has left.   There WAS some disagreement as to Rosen and Haskins though.   They had almost precisely the same draft grade and for the cost of less than a first Rosen was both more NFL ready entering the NFL and had a year in.   Ultimately Haskins has and had significantly more upside and the team went with him because if given another year in college he's a Pro Bowl rated prospect easily and Rosen simply wasn't and wouldn't have been.   Think Darnold last year how he kind of went from a 6 to a 7 ranking by staying at USC.   Very similar.

There was also personnel disagreement about going Haskins over someone else on their board, but, well, Bruce immediately started working the phones calling everyone 16 and back to move up and got the guy the people wanted anyway.   So, that WAS the "salve" for the personnel side who were largely split as to whether Sweat or Haskins at No. 15 was right.   

And, yeah, everyone is happy because both sides got exactly what they wanted at the cost of next year's No. 2.   All good.

 

42 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Makes sense. "Redskins FO dysfunction" has become such a tired trope for NFL reporters, they trot it out even when it doesn't make sense. Who could have been so upset for not trading up for Dwayne Haskins with no long-term QB solution in the building?

 

Your point about the team's fate living and dying by QB play is a good one. We've built our team enough to the point where we should be at least 8-8 this year, though I'm not sure we can go 10-6 with Colt/Case/rookie Dwayne under center. What do you think Gruden needs to accomplish to stick around -- a winning season or a playoff berth?

 

Frustration with the D-coordinator aside, I like we've had 6 years of stability at HC (and thus Offense) and am optimistic about Haskins' potential with this staff. Would hate to see Jay (who I think is a fine coach, not great but give him the LA Rams roster and I wonder how much praise he'd get thrown on him vs. McVay) get cut just as he finally gets QB talent to work with.

 

On the plus side, no HC candidate with options would pick a team that has no long-term solution at QB. Redskins now have more than enough pieces to be an attractive coaching destination should we decide to enter that market.

 

This is a very good post.   And right on all counts :).

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

 

@Art does this sound like agenda-driven sensationalizing or accurate report of nasty internal dissent?

 

All I know about Diana is Mrs. McCloughan's tweets, which themselves are of dubious credibility, so hard to contextualize her reporting effectively...

 

 I listened to Russini on Sheehan's podcast as well...what I found interesting about the whole "divided/warring factions/Bruce and Dan vs "football people" storyline is what she said about the Skins after the draft. She basically said two things:

 

1) Everyone was all smiles after the draft was over because everyone got at least one or two players they really wanted, even those who may not have wanted Haskins @ 15.

 

2) That nobody in the Skins' FO gives a flying **** about these stories...she said something like "We talk about them and speculate, etc, but they don't care at all and don't watch ESPN or follow the latest reports", etc, etc...I think it was in response to Sheehan asking if the divide between Dan/Bruce and the "football people" was gonna carry over in some negative way. Her response, to me, anyway, came across as "Please...the Redskins don't give a ****. We might, but they don't."

[TK]

Let me drop some insight.

 

Dirty D got played by the FO & here's how to tell.

 

Schefty didn't say a word on it while her & 106.7 went all in on Dan taking over the First Round. When Adam ain't saying ****, don't buy into it.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, TK said:

 

Schefty didn't say a word on it while her & 106.7 went all in on Dan taking over the First Round. 

 

106.7 I recall was disputing Garafalo and Russini's report about trading up.   They said that Dan loved Haskins, ditto Bruce.  Some suggested Doug, too.   But yeah the Dan taking over the first round Paulsen was talking up but he didn't think they'd trade up.  Russini was carrying the trading up water.

 

According to them the FO talked Dan into staying pat at 15 and if Haskins fell they would take him.  106.7 did think Dan's desires were heard (and there were others who liked Haskins too in the building but he wasn't Jay's #1 QB according to them, Keim and others too either echoed that or strongly hinted at it) -- so maybe they are wrong about that or who knows but what they said would happen actually did. 

 

Hoffman's story was the most aggressive of the bunch saying Jay-some within the FO wanted to go pass rusher at 15 not QB.   But since they were able to do both, everyone was satisfied in the end.   And while some question that Haskins was Jay's #1 guy at QB, he's into making it work, likes his talent, etc.

 

As for whose got the truth, you got me.  But it did seem to play out the way the 106.7 guys thought it would.  Russini and Garafalo though did back off the trading up idea on draft day and echoed the 106.7 narrative but the day before that were screaming they were trading up. 

 

I said on the draft thread that day it smelled like a smoke screen -- it just seemed too loud and obvious -- why would a team put a billboard up essentially telling the whole league they are desperate to trade up for a QB?  So if the Giants were fooled by it, then they aren't the swiftest of folks.  The smokescreen in my book wasn't very subtle.   Guys like Todd McShay were joking on air that it smells loudly like a smokescreen and its lying season. 

 

But I guess when a team is smitten with a player they can't help themselves (and being probably the #1 hater of Jones (the player not the person) for months, I enjoyed every minute of it. 

 

Edit:  I agree that no one gets more right than Schefter.    I trust him by a mile over the other national guys.  It definitely seems like Garafalo and Russini were played the day before the draft.  Thought so at the time, too,  

 

 

 

 

 

[Dissident2]

2 hours ago, TK said:

Let me drop some insight.

 

Dirty D got played by the FO & here's how to tell.

 

Schefty didn't say a word on it while her & 106.7 went all in on Dan taking over the First Round. When Adam ain't saying ****, don't buy into it.  

 

Funny you mention Schefter, as she talks about him on the show in relation to her "scoop."

 

"Our process of reporting, we usually go two to three sources on it. So I shared that with Adam Schefter, who's the best at it, and he said, 'Yeah, I've been kind of hearing that [the Redskins were all-in on Haskins], but you seem like you have it locked.' I said, 'Yeah, but I only have like one-and-a-half sources on it right now, the half isn't all-in' and Schefter pushed me and said go back and work on it, and I did, and I was able to get a lot more. And in the end, it was discovered that there was a divide in the organization. You had the scouts and the coaches on the offensive side of the ball who were comfortable not drafting a QB, who wanted to go defense. And Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen did not want that. They wanted Haskins and they weren't budging."

 

So was Schefter playing her, too? 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I am listening to Russini on the Sheehan podcast right now.  She has a little revisionist history.  She is saying she knew they were staying at 15.  That's true if we are talking draft day.  But the day before the draft she was screaming though that they were trading up.  Like I said the local beat guys were shooting that down but she and Garafalo were pumping up they were trading up until draft day when they changed their song.

 

None of this though bothers me that much regardless of what narrative is true.  Russini echoed the same thing Hoffman did and Keim hinted at -- which is whether he was or wasn't on board initially he's into it now.  I'd only be bothered if the coach was sore about something.  But no one is saying Jay has a beef with what's happened.  And getting that pass rusher was key.   

[Thinking Skins]

So I'm listening to hour 3 of Al Galdi's show today and its inspiring because he is discussing my theory all along about Bruce and that he is the one keeping Dan in place, even compared it to Al Davis and what Bruce could do there (keeping him in check from his wilder moves) and they went to a SB. And I think this is a critical element of the Bruce Allen / GM story. Marty didn't work here because he couldn't talk to Dan. Vinny could talk to Dan so he stayed. But Vinny had no idea how to build a franchise. Bruce may not be the "football mind" people want but at least he has been a part of winning organizations in both Oakland and Tampa. And we can disagree about how successful they were and what Bruce's role was in those things, but I've always thought that Michael Lombardi's POV was overstating things. about Bruce's minimal involvement. Its not about Bruce being a scout, I think its about Bruce keeping Dan in control so that the football people can do their thing. 

 

Now Al's theory was that the reason Lacanforta didn't work is because he couldn't talk to Dan. We all noticed (and called it refreshing) how different his talking to the media was from the previous front office. Kinda saying, "Dan your way of doing business is wrong" and as much as we would like to tell Dan that, maybe Dan just didn't want to hear that. And honestly, looking at this site and how excited the fanbase is right now, maybe there's something to the idea that we just needed a QB in inspire the fans. We'll see about that when we look at empty seats in the season. RG3 had captured this city in a way like I hadn't seen since my childhood, so maybe there's something to this. 

 

I am still thinking that Bruce has had enough time and should be replaced, but the question becomes who do we replace him with. I have a feeling that if we simply put Eric or Kyle into that spot they won't like it. Its one of the frustrations I have with my job, if I do what I do well, I get asked to do more, which consists of things that I don't do well and things I don't like to do. I'm a mathematician so let me do math. I don't want to be doing time sheets, or calling people's cell phones to see why they aren't at work yet. Luckily I've had a sequence of people who have been in these roles who have listened to me when i said I just want to do math and have been willing to do the admin stuff. If that's the way of Kyle and/or Eric then i have no problem with the current setup (position-wise).

 

Back when we let go of Scot I had faith in Kyle based on the blind assumption that he was AJ Smith's son and maybe he had learned from his father. BTW, AJ Smith is another guy who I had thought could be a good GM candidate, but there were a lot of reports of the tension between Smith and Snyder over somebody Snyder had ranked high but Smith had low, I think Smith was eventually right but I doubt Smith could talk to Snyder in a productive way. So I think this is a delicate balance that has to be worked within this whole thing. If we make a change, there is the question of "how good will this person be" at their job, but there will also be the question of "how good will this person be" at connecting with Dan. And that goes for Kyle and Eric.

 

Eric's been here for a while (Kyle too, but not in these high positions), so maybe they have this down. But my guess is that Bruce talks to Dan so that these guys don't have to. And I think that's the whole "snake" / "politician" type thing about Bruce. He probably knows how to work a room. But to a person outside that room (like Lombardi probably was in Oakland), it may seem like Bruce is only promoting his own objectives. And if Lombardi was a draft guy in Oakland when they went on their big FA push before the SB run, maybe he did feel like Bruce was power hungry and promoting his own ideas. But that was one of the rare times when Al wasn't just drafting the fastest guys at the combine, ignoring their college records at all. 

 

So just something to think about. 

[HardcoreZorn]

Quote

 

Still, they haven’t won big. Why?

The optimist in me wants to offer the theory that, because the franchise has been out of whack for so long, it has taken more time than usual to get right. Perhaps it has taken twice as long as the typical three-year process.

 

 

I think it’s a combination of the above and some unfortunate luck with regards to injuries. No team can succeed with the level of attrition we’ve dealt with.

 

But the above is what I personally believe. This team was so depleted and being built in such an ass backward way prior to Jay and Bruce coming on board. Trading draft picks out the wazoooo, always signing aging cast off cowboys to man the DLine, etc. We had a little something going on 2015/2016 with our passing game but the rest of the team around them was meh. Then the passing game took huge steps back which along with the injuries hurt us some in the short term. But in 2017 and 2018 while that was happening all of a sudden the team was being built up around the QB position. It’s why a middling Alex and his style worked. If we had that passing game back in 2015 we would have been 5-11. So now I think what you kind of see coming together, and the reason you see a slightly rejuvenated fanbase to my eye, is because now we have a young QB with potential surrounded with a pretty good supporting cast, with the exception of a couple positions. A mostly homegrown supporting cast. And while Haskins and some of that supporting cast have only that magic P word to their name as it stands now, potential brings hope. And hope brings optimism which this team could use a bit of. 

 

But to circle back, it takes time and patience to reverse a negative culture as strong as the one DC was. This is where you came to get paid and ride off into the sunset. No attempt to build a young hungry team through the draft. Neglecting the trenches. No vision for a team, just haphazardly firing up Redskins one to win the fans back in the off season. So it’s no surprise to me it took 5-6 years for the roster to look as strong as it does now. Still, I think 2020 will be the year they make some noise. I think this year they will be exciting and give us a glimpse and next year with an improved Haskins we will be excited what this team can do.

[TK]

4 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

So was Schefter playing her, too? 

 

The point was Adam wasn’t out there pushing the “Dan’s gone crazy & taking over the Draft” mess. 

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I think it’s a combination of the above 

 

I agree with some of your points disagree with others from that post.  For me the key point though is fast turnarounds are doable including from organizations that have had long term issues of mismanagement.    But good luck doing it without a QB.     The Browns have been doing it right for years, getting younger, adding picks and they kept plugging.  But then they hit on Mayfield and now they are the talk of the town.  I like Jay here more than most and like to hear about his talent evaluation skills.   In spite of the RG3 deal, Shanny did like the draft and hit on some good players in that mix.    The 2011 draft was ballyhooed to death at the time, it didn't look hot over time but they added a lot of picks and it felt good back then. 

 

IMO it's very difficult to be a successful organization where you consistently win without a Big Ben, Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, R. Wilson, etc.   You can do it with a good (not great QB) if you have a killer team around that QB but the easiest way to find consistent success is to find that franchise guy.  And then surround the franchise guy with weapons. 

 

Among the things that hasn't changed under Dan from one regime to another is striking out at QB.  And I don't care about context and their excuses for it -- the results have still been the same over a long sample size.  And IMO its unlikely going to change until they get it right. 

 

If they get Haskins right IMO it will change everything.  If they don't get it right.  I think the attempt to rise above mediocrity will be a much bigger uphill fight. 

 

My only disclaimer to that point is pass rusher.  IMO the next most important position after QB is pass rusher.  That's part of the reason why I love this draft.  While i am not a big Haskins guy, I'll ride it and have fun with it because he has potential so will see.   I am big Sweat guy so if he's the real deal, I think that's the X factor to elevate this defense above being good.   

 

Said differently, if they land on Haskins and Sweat I think that combination will be game changers for the franchise.  And if Bruce-Dan want some love from the fans, I think they will get it if those picks pan out.  I've liked their drafts in recent years too -- but this one potentially can be the game changer one IMO because they swung for the fences. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just found this you tube video, Haskins juxtaposed with star wars references.  Hilarious to me.  Totally on point to me as to what i am hoping 😀  

 

 

 

[TK]

22 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just found this you tube video, Haskins juxtaposed with star wars references.  Hilarious to me.  Totally on point to me as to what i am hoping 😀  

Notice the final stadium shown there.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I know this is an issue for some of us especially KDawg if i recall

 

 

 

[bakedtater1]

Yeah for sure majorly concerning.. especially when errry season the skins are revamping this adding that to training staff and facilities and still so many injuries..

[RandyHolt]

Do we draft players coming off major injuries, more than other teams?  I seem to recall hearing we got "value" drafting an injured player that was much better than his draft position blah blah.  It's not robocop out there... injuries take their toll, all things equal. 

 

Eventually, taking the value via injury approach on draft day needs to be considered a possible factor on MASH setting up shop at Fedex.

[Thinking Skins]

44 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Do we draft players coming off major injuries, more than other teams?  I seem to recall hearing we got "value" drafting an injured player that was much better than his draft position blah blah.  It's not robocop out there... injuries take their toll, all things equal. 

 

Eventually, taking the value via injury approach on draft day needs to be considered a possible factor on MASH setting up shop at Fedex.

Well 3 of the guys we took were SDH, Moreau and Fuller. Jury's still out on SDH, but at minimum we can say that none of them have gotten injured since we drafted them. Did that equal value? All are or were starting, so there's that, but could we have gotten them later? At minimum though, it seems like value to me. 

 

It'll be interesting if we use Moreland in the slot this year, giving Moreau the chance to go outside and possibly improving our corners a lot

[Reaper Skins]

Redskins hiring outside consultants to tackle injury problem

 

Once deemed a coincidence, the Washington Redskins injury issue is now impossible to ignore.

It’s a subplot of seasons past that’s diluted Jay Gruden’s time in D.C. Injuries. People debate about the causation and the potential remediation techniques, but the one certainty is that injuries, normally an uncertainty in the NFL, have been very prevalent for the Redskins in recent years.

Through 2017 and 2018, the Redskins saw a grand total of 54 players hit injured reserve, and even more dealt with recurring injuries whilst playing through them. The injuries chipped away at the team’s depth, and in 2018, they ultimately played a part in derailing what was once a potential playoff campaign.

 

more at link

 

https://riggosrag.com/2019/05/07/redskins-hiring-outside-consultants-tackle-injury-problem/

[MisterPinstripe]

4 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

Redskins hiring outside consultants to tackle injury problem

 

 

more at link

 

https://riggosrag.com/2019/05/07/redskins-hiring-outside-consultants-tackle-injury-problem/

Good, much needed. Relieved they aren't burying their heads in the sand.