The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[RandyHolt]

8 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Well 3 of the guys we took were SDH, Moreau and Fuller. Jury's still out on SDH, but at minimum we can say that none of them have gotten injured since we drafted them. Did that equal value? All are or were starting, so there's that, but could we have gotten them later? At minimum though, it seems like value to me. 

 

It'll be interesting if we use Moreland in the slot this year, giving Moreau the chance to go outside and possibly improving our corners a lot

 

Focusing on our recent value 1sts.  At the top of the list of man games lost last year was Guice who was injured on what seemed like an innocent looking tackle.  He had a hyper knee in college that went untreated / healed on its own. He dropped, allegedly because he told the Eagles brass to **** off, in the end seemingly getting us value. He was good for 4 carries countered sadly, by 4 surgeries. Maybe he dropped because of injury concerns, and our steal was actually damaged goods. Who can say. Me? I take a guy a little earlier if he hates Philly

 

Allen in 2017 had a shoulder that made him drop into our laps at 17. We got great value, fingers crossed.  But he only played 4 full games that year. Sure, his injury was not a shoulder, but the question should be asked, does a players college injury history reflect that a player is injury prone in the pros? My gut says yes.  I was VERY happy to see him start 16 last year and know I am not alone. 

 

If a guy has a bum arm, and he thus uses his other arm to compensate and then that arm gets injured, one may think the 2nd injury is unrelated to the first. I am not so sure. One injury can lead to another - been there done that.

 

Lessors, Keith Marshall ACL a bust, countered by Fuller, who seemed fine after his college knee. Of course we let him slip away when it should have been Reid paying us to take the Smith contract off his hands to clear the pipe for Mahomes, who clearly could have started as a rookie, wasting a prime year of his career and low cap hit to boot. Value lost.

 

GMs draft a guy like Love and hope he will be all healed up 100%, and still be that same guy he was before the injury.  We beat our chests on draft day - we got value. That always seems early to me. He may end up on PUP, if so, we need to consider games/seasons lost off a players career in determining value, particularly with backs WRT to shorter careers.  I am thrilled to hear recent reports he may be back early in camp.

 

I prefer to see the injury related "value" picks make it through a season first. 1st rounders, a few years.  A first that misses a lot of time should be weighed more heavily in any sort of grading of man games lost. They hurt the most. Pun intended.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Russell as I've documented has been pretty good at getting things right in recent years about hires and internal goings on in the FO -- last night he seemed to be hinting on his radio show that both Doug and Kyle would like promotions and their ambitions might eventually run into each other.  Russell suggesting he was told that Doug would not like it if Kyle got promoted above him.   And Doug would like some more real power versus what he has behind the scenes in spite of the title.

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Russell as I've documented has been pretty good at getting things right in recent years about hires and internal goings on in the FO -- last night he seemed to be hinting on his radio show that both Doug and Kyle would like promotions and their ambitions might eventually run into each other.  Russell suggesting he was told that Doug would not like it if Kyle got promoted above him.   And Doug would like some more real power versus what he has behind the scenes in spite of the title.

 

 

 

 

If that's true, Doug better not overestimate his value to the team. 

 

And I would love it if interviewing scouts was an indication of Kyle's growing clout (or hell, even Doug's growing clout). I think the last time we hired scouts it was at Doug's request. Or maybe not...hell, I dunno. I'm eating shrimp so everything is making sense right now lol...long live the power of good food.

[Voice_of_Reason]

@Califan007 what kind of shrimp? I prefer steamed shrimp with copious butter, but don’t care for theass amounts of Old Bay seasoning a lot of folks put on them.  

 

Shrimp Scampi is also good.  

 

I like shrimp.  

 

EDIT: I also like grilled shrimp, popcorn shrimp, coconut shrimp, shrimp Alfredo, shrimp tacos, shrimp curry, shrimp salad, and probably a few others...

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

22 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

If that's true, Doug better not overestimate his value to the team. 

 

And I would love it if interviewing scouts was an indication of Kyle's growing clout (or hell, even Doug's growing clout). I think the last time we hired scouts it was at Doug's request. Or maybe not...hell, I dunno. I'm eating shrimp so everything is making sense right now lol...long live the power of good food.

 

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Califan007 what kind of shrimp? I prefer steamed shrimp with copious butter, but don’t care for theass amounts of Old Bay seasoning a lot of folks put on them.  

 

Shrimp Scampi is also good.  

 

I like shrimp.  

 

EDIT: I also like grilled shrimp, popcorn shrimp, coconut shrimp, shrimp Alfredo, shrimp tacos, shrimp curry, shrimp salad, and probably a few others...

 

 

[SkinsFTW]

Lol at moron Vinny talking about Doofus Dan possibly taking over the draft and that if he makes moronic choices everybody else is to blame.

 

Championship!!!

[bakedtater1]

Snyder just has one of those faces I want to punch so hard!!

[Cypress]

2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Snyder just has one of those faces I want to punch so hard!!

 

[SkinsGuy]

2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Snyder just has one of those faces I want to punch so hard!!

 

That sounds like a psychological problem of yours if just someone's genetic appearance incites you to violence.

 

I hope you don't ever run into anyone that resembles Snyder.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Califan007 what kind of shrimp? I prefer steamed shrimp with copious butter, but don’t care for theass amounts of Old Bay seasoning a lot of folks put on them.  

 

Shrimp Scampi is also good.  

 

I like shrimp.  

 

EDIT: I also like grilled shrimp, popcorn shrimp, coconut shrimp, shrimp Alfredo, shrimp tacos, shrimp curry, shrimp salad, and probably a few others...

 

Salt and pepper shrimp from this asian phood place nearby...phenomenal.

 

And ALL shrimp is good shrimp, even strip club all-you-can-eat shrimp lol...

[bakedtater1]

6 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

That sounds like a psychological problem of yours if just someone's genetic appearance incites you to violence.

 

I hope you don't ever run into anyone that resembles Snyder.

 

I'm not a violent guy..I was at a party once heard a fight break out out side got up went to get my coat on and the fight made it's way in the house as I was putting my second arm in the sleeve some guy socked me in the face and I continued putting my coat on so I could leave and avoid the law..true story!

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

And ALL shrimp is good shrimp, even strip club all-you-can-eat shrimp lol...

I mean, if you’re down for gastrointestinal distress...

 

I am not a strip clib guy, only been to 2 ever both for bachelor parties.  So I have to admit I’m not familiar with the all you can eat shrimp deal.  Is this a thing?

[Andre The Giant]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

This Cerrato interview is significant. Snyder was overruling scouts in the draft room for years. How can you compete with organizations like the Patriots with such actions?  No wonder we couldn’t win.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

57 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, if you’re down for gastrointestinal distress...

 

I am not a strip clib guy, only been to 2 ever both for bachelor parties.  So I have to admit I’m not familiar with the all you can eat shrimp deal.  Is this a thing?

 

It is on Parks snd Recreation lol (except it's breakfast, not shrimp)...

 

 

 

 

 

49 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

This Cerrato interview is significant. Snyder was overruling scouts in the draft room for years. How can you compete with organizations like the Patriots with such actions?  No wonder we couldn’t win.  

 

Before, it was reported that Vinny was doing the overriding on his own. Now he says it was really Dan?

 

All I know is, our drafts improved once Vinny was tossed out the window.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

All I know is, our drafts improved once Vinny was tossed out the window

Defenestration is highly underrated.

[Burgold]

59 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

This Cerrato interview is significant. Snyder was overruling scouts in the draft room for years. How can you compete with organizations like the Patriots with such actions?  No wonder we couldn’t win.  

or it could be CYA. After all, I doubt Cerrato is going to candidly say in an interview.

 

"I sucked and couldn't evaluate talent worth ****! How are you idiots still paying me TV analyst money? I mean seriously, I'm always not only wrong, but ****ing wrong!"

[drowland]

So I assume it was Dan's decision to draft Taylor Jacobs in 2nd round of 2003 since he let the scouts draft Dockery in the 3rd.  Welp at least Jacobs' looked like a HOFer in practice.  

[Andre The Giant]

6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

or it could be CYA. After all, I doubt Cerrato is going to candidly say in an interview.

 

"I sucked and couldn't evaluate talent worth ****! How are you idiots still paying me TV analyst money? I mean seriously, I'm always not only wrong, but ****ing wrong!"

 

I believe, based on overwhelming circumstantial evidence, that Dan did it and continues to on rarer occasion.  It stays relatively quiet because people are getting paid under non-disclosure agreements.  I also don’t think it’s a coincidence we’ve lost competent, but less flashy QBs Brad Johnson and Kirk Cousins well before other teams would’ve. 

 

Dan was a marketing guru, he likes flashy players that sell tickets. He’s the anti-Patriots. All of this would be fine if we were consistently winning ... but we haven’t. 

 

I think Bruce keeps us on the rails, drafts have gotten better. But this interview was definitely revealing. It’s what I hoped wasn’t happening, but was.  Vinnie is a lot of things, but his comments ring true. 

 

 

[Burgold]

10 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

I believe, based on overwhelming circumstantial evidence, that Dan did it and continues to on rarer occasion.  It stays relatively quiet because people are getting paid under non-disclosure agreements.  I also don’t think it’s a coincidence we’ve lost competent, but less flashy QBs Brad Johnson and Kirk Cousins well before other teams would’ve. 

 

Dan was a marketing guru, he likes flashy players that sell tickets. He’s the anti-Patriots. All of this would be fine if we were consistently winning ... but we haven’t. 

 

I think Bruce keeps us on the rails, drafts have gotten better. But this interview was definitely revealing. It’s what I hoped wasn’t happening, but was.  Vinnie is a lot of things, but his comments ring true. 

 

 

Frankly, I think it's both. I think Vinny sucked and Dan did, too, but I'm not letting Vinny off the hook and going to let him pretend that all the bad decisions were Snyder's. After all, record was only so-so at best with the 49ers before the Redskins and he was never able to do anything of note afterwards. On top of it, during the Vinny-Snyder years, Vinny had the widest open pocketbook of any GM in the NFL.

 

They couldn't hit on free agency either.

 

You're right. Part of it was substance over flash. Archuletta over Ryan Clark. Jeff George over Brad Johnson. Antonio Pierce over what's his name from the Eagles, but Vinny crapped the bad a lot, too. He wasn't a victim of Snyder. They were both rotten.

[SkinsGuy]

16 minutes ago, drowland said:

So I assume it was Dan's decision to draft Taylor Jacobs in 2nd round of 2003 since he let the scouts draft Dockery in the 3rd.  Welp at least Jacobs' looked like a HOFer in practice.  

 

Most have the same mindset for Redskins' drafts.

 

All the picks you like are the scouts being allowed to do their job.

 

All the picks you hate are Snyder meddling.

 

It's a good system.

 

[Andre The Giant]

17 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Frankly, I think it's both. I think Vinny sucked and Dan did, too, but I'm not letting Vinny off the hook and going to let him pretend that all the bad decisions were Snyder's. After all, record was only so-so at best with the 49ers before the Redskins and he was never able to do anything of note afterwards. On top of it, during the Vinny-Snyder years, Vinny had the widest open pocketbook of any GM in the NFL.

 

They couldn't hit on free agency either.

 

You're right. Part of it was substance over flash. Archuletta over Ryan Clark. Jeff George over Brad Johnson. Antonio Pierce over what's his name from the Eagles, but Vinny crapped the bad a lot, too. He wasn't a victim of Snyder. They were both rotten.

 

Yes Vinnie was not a NFL top-caliber GM. He had the job because he was willing to play ball. He sucked too. 

 

But I’ve wondered specifically why the Skins have never won under Snyder, and this article says a lot.  Can we all say for certain that things have changed?

 

Improved ... I think so.  But changed, especially with Russini’s reports during the draft?  I don’t know. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

30 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Most have the same mindset for Redskins' drafts.

 

All the picks you like are the scouts being allowed to do their job.

 

All the picks you hate are Snyder meddling.

 

It's a good system.

 

 

if Haskins turns out to be a bonafide franchise QB, I expect a lot of "insider source" articles to be written claiming that the pick was just as much Doug, Jay or Kyle as it was Snyder, maybe even more so lol..."Sources with knowledge of the Skins' front office have told me that while Daniel Snyder did want Haskins, it was mostly just to energize the fan base and because the young QB attended the same high school as Snyder's son. I was told that it wasn't until Kyle Smith gave his stamp of approval based on film study and the high ceiling he felt Haskins possessed that the decision was made to give Mr. Snyder what he wanted." (or stuff like that there)

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

"Sources with knowledge of the Skins' front office have told me that while Daniel Snyder did want Haskins, it was mostly just to energize the fan base and because the young QB attended the same high school as Snyder's son. I was told that it wasn't until Kyle Smith gave his stamp of approval based on film study and the high ceiling he felt Haskins possessed that the decision was made to give Mr. Snyder what he wanted." (or stuff like that there)

Actually, this scenario makes more sense and seems more likely than anything else reported.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

if Haskins turns out to be a bonafide franchise QB, I expect a lot of "insider source" articles to be written claiming that the pick was just as much Doug, Jay or Kyle as it was Snyder, maybe even more so lol..."Sources with knowledge of the Skins' front office have told me that while Daniel Snyder did want Haskins, it was mostly just to energize the fan base and because the young QB attended the same high school as Snyder's son. I was told that it wasn't until Kyle Smith gave his stamp of approval based on film study and the high ceiling he felt Haskins possessed that the decision was made to give Mr. Snyder what he wanted." (or stuff like that there)

 

Guys like Sheehan if anything are actually setting up Dan for the kill on this -- good or bad. 

 

In other words, if Haskins is the goods then Dan is vindicated to some of these media types since they are claiming he pushed it.  If he isn't the goods then its same old same old I presume for them.  Although there is a lot of focus on Russini -- she has plenty of company from what I recall on that narrative:  Sheehan, Russell, Keim, Finlay, Garafalo, Darlington, Paulsen, Russell, Hoffman.  The only narrative that sort of hedges on it that I can think of is the WP and Finlay who sort of make the case in retrospect that Jay wasn't sold but then was when charmed over dinner by Haskins and became sold later in the game closer to the draft. 

 

I can't think of one narrative that doesn't include Dan had a man crush on the dude -- so Dan is front and center or at least part of the soup -- the best pro Dan argument from the context that he didn't interfere that I can scope out is one where its just coincidence that Dan had a man crush on Haskins along with others in that building.  But even running with that argument -- you still have a narrative of Dan being into the pick.  So again Dan should get a PR prop if Haskins works out. 

 

So that's my long winded way of saying if people want Dan to get props -- I think he will get it if Haskins works out.    I get some here think the whole narrative was made up about Dan.  Maybe that's so.  Obviously, I got no way of knowing.   But you got some serious minded reporters who are echoing that narrative including Keim so I'd say there is at least a chance there is something to it?

 

But like I said on the Haskins thread I don't really care -- as long as Jay is on board now and supposedly he's into making this work.  And if it is true about Dan being involved.  I'll say this as a guy who actually has taken some arrows on this thread for echoing what reporters (including Sheehan) have been saying for years which is Dan doesn't interfere like he used to -- I got to at least my antenna up that Dan might be going back to his old ways. 

 

I said here months back -- Sheehan who ironically was one of the guys screaming for years that Dan doesn't really interfere anymore (post RG3) said he heard in the beginning of this year that Dan is starting to interfere again.  Hopefully that's not true.  But I can't just outright dismiss it as nonsense considering how many people are converging on variations of the same story. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Guys like Sheehan if anything are actually setting up Dan for the kill on this -- good or bad.

 

So that's my long winded way of saying if people want Dan to get props -- I think he will get it if Haskins works out.    I get some here think the whole narrative was made up about Dan.  Maybe that's so.  Obviously, I got no way of knowing.   But you got some serious minded reporters who are echoing that narrative including Keim so I'd say there is at least a chance there is something to it?

 

1

 

I definitely know Sheehan is completely on board--right now at least--in saying if Haskins turns out to be legit Snyder deserves 100% of the credit for him being a Redskin. That doesn't mean, though, that if new "info" comes in stating otherwise he won't change his mind about Dan deserving praise. Nor do I think the rest of his media brethren are as open and gun-ho about making sure it's seen as a Dan victory of sorts should Haskins turn out to be good.