The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[goskins10]

So this is a very interesting interview Bruce gave to Stephen A Smith. I have been on record as despising Bruce Allen - still do. However, his method of spreading false narratives is to do it through leaks and other people. He is careful not to say things public that are incorrect - at least as far as I know. In this interview he paints a much different picture than many fans believe and much of the media have reported - for what it's worth. 

 

If he is to believed (a big If I get it), his response to Dan picking Haskins: They let the story go about Dan's fascination with Haskins for the fans (not sure what that was supposed to mean, but OK). But in reality it was Doug and Kyle who ran the draft. They had the plan going in and they stuck to it - including they were not trading anything to get Haskins. If you believe him, they were never trading up. In fact based on him, Kyle and Doug made the picks. Bruce's input was to get the trade done for Sweat once he started to drop. At least that's what I got out of it. 

 

He states that Dan's son and Haskins did go to the same school, but about 6 yrs apart and do not know each other. And that despite rumors Dan has not been to a player workout for about 10 yrs. 

 

If you have not seen the video, here it is. It's worth watching.  

 

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

21 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

So this is a very interesting interview Bruce gave to Stephen A Smith. I have been on record as despising Bruce Allen - still do. However, his method of spreading false narratives is to do it through leaks and other people. He is careful not to say things public that are incorrect - at least as far as I know. In this interview he paints a much different picture than many fans believe and much of the media have reported - for what it's worth. 

 

If he is to believed (a big If I get it), his response to Dan picking Haskins: They let the story go about Dan's fascination with Haskins for the fans (not sure what that was supposed to mean, but OK). But in reality it was Doug and Kyle who ran the draft. They had the plan going in and they stuck to it - including they were not trading anything to get Haskins. If you believe him, they were never trading up. In fact based on him, Kyle and Doug made the picks. Bruce's input was to get the trade done for Sweat once he started to drop. At least that's what I got out of it.

 

7

 

I have zero doubt that Doug and Kyle ran the draft meetings and set the draft board and direction. That doesn't preclude the owner and/or team president from pushing harder for a player they like, though. I personally don't buy that Snyder "took over the 1st round" and forced the front office to take a player over all the "football people's" objections and better-qualified evaluations (I didn't hear the part about letting the story about Dan and Haskins go "for the fans" in that video)...but that doesn't mean Snyder wasn't making his opinion known. Yet at the same time, Snyder should understand that he doesn't get to vent or stand on the table about things like he's just another front office executive. Everything an owner says pretty much gets taken as a directive and not just an opinion.

 

[kingdaddy]

26 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I have zero doubt that Doug and Kyle ran the draft meetings and set the draft board and direction. That doesn't preclude the owner and/or team president from pushing harder for a player they like, though. I personally don't buy that Snyder "took over the 1st round" and forced the front office to take a player over all the "football people's" objections and better-qualified evaluations (I didn't hear the part about letting the story about Dan and Haskins go "for the fans" in that video)...but that doesn't mean Snyder wasn't making his opinion known. Yet at the same time, Snyder should understand that he doesn't get to vent or stand on the table about things like he's just another front office executive. Everything an owner says pretty much gets taken as a directive and not just an opinion.

 

Well, however that draft room played out, it appears as if they did an incredible job of getting quality players. Also, to go from losing your top 2 QB's, and being so cap strapped, I give the Skins mgmt an A+ for not only keeping the team afloat but also addressing the future big time with the acquisitions of Keenum and Haskins. Given all of the offseason moves, you'd have to believe Dan stayed out of the way as their were just too many quality moves made to have his fingerprints left on it. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Well, however that draft room played out, it appears as if they did an incredible job of getting quality players. Also, to go from losing your top 2 QB's, and being so cap strapped, I give the Skins mgmt an A+ for not only keeping the team afloat but also addressing the future big time with the acquisitions of Keenum and Haskins. Given all of the offseason moves, you'd have to believe Dan stayed out of the way as their were just too many quality moves made to have his fingerprints left on it. 

 

Someone Sheehan interviewed on his podcast who he had a lot of respect for--wish I could remember his name--said something similar to you lol....Sheehan asked him something about how he felt concerning the stories before the draft about Snyder and his meddling in the draft process, etc...and the guy said "Whoever is making draft decisions for the Redskins needs to keep doing so, because they had a fantastic draft" lol...it caught Sheehan a little off-guard, I think.

[wit33]

The 2018 season ended with Smith fighting to keep his leg, Josh Johnson replacing Sanchez as the starter, all because Colt McCoy was lost to a fracture. 

 

The QB room now has Keenum, McCoy and Haskins entering the 2019 season. 

 

This is how a good FO operates. Enjoy it! 

[goskins10]

54 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I have zero doubt that Doug and Kyle ran the draft meetings and set the draft board and direction. That doesn't preclude the owner and/or team president from pushing harder for a player they like, though. I personally don't buy that Snyder "took over the 1st round" and forced the front office to take a player over all the "football people's" objections and better-qualified evaluations (I didn't hear the part about letting the story about Dan and Haskins go "for the fans" in that video)...but that doesn't mean Snyder wasn't making his opinion known. Yet at the same time, Snyder should understand that he doesn't get to vent or stand on the table about things like he's just another front office executive. Everything an owner says pretty much gets taken as a directive and not just an opinion.

 

 

Not sure where I said or even suggested that anything Bruce said meant Dan could not come down and make a call and everyone would have to agree. In the end it his team. He owns them so as long as he is paying the checks, he gets to do that. 

 

My only point for putting the video out there is that Bruce at least is painting a different picture. Is he telling the truth? I have no idea. Only they really know. But in fairness, I have not seen him lie directly. He usually has someone do it for him so he can claim no knowledge if it benefits him. I will say, again if he is to be believed, both Kyle and Doug are having a pretty big impact on the draft and player personnel in general. 

 

Not directed at you just using this as a jump off point: 

 

If I was forced to bet money, my guess would be Dan suggested either directly or through Bruce that Haskins would be good for the organization from a fan standpoint and if they had a chance to get him he would not be upset. They - meaning Bruce, Doug, Kyle, Jay - made the plan that if Haskins was there at 15 they take him, otherwise they go another direction as they were not trading up for him. They did not want to spend what it would have taken to move up to get him. The last part appears to be true - they did not trade up - and that is significant here. If Dan was ravenous about Haskins and pounding the table, they would have traded up. So at least from that standpoint it appears while Dan may have made his preference clear, he let the other 4 make the final call. Not sure at this point how anyone could honestly dispute that - and this coming from someone who despises Dan Snyder. So it's not I just like him and want this to be true. Just following the bouncing ball. 

 

Also, I really think people have put way too much stock in reports coming out before the draft. All teams lie. GM's lie, coaches lie, scouts lie. It's a big BS fest leading up to the draft. I said this in an earlier post that Gil Brandt bragged about leaving a false "big board" out for a journalist so that other teams would think they were taking one guy when he was not even close to someone they wanted. 

 

Regardless of who did what - at least on paper this was a very good draft. But they need to play and perform before we can really make any determinations. But again, at face value right now, it appears to be a job well done.

[JSSkinz]

I said in the Bruce thread I liked the fact he didn't use "I" or "Me" when talking about our draft, he mentions Kyle in both of the media clips I watched so maybe he's starting to get humbled a bit.

 

Either way, if he just stays out of the draft and doesn't make anymore Alex Smith level impulse buys we could be alright.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Is it against the rules to say something good about Bruce in this thread ?

Or would it be like posting a "Florida-like" story that did not actually come from Florida, in the "Yep, Florida" thread in Tailgate ?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not sure where I said or even suggested that anything Bruce said meant Dan could not come down and make a call and everyone would have to agree. In the end it his team. He owns them so as long as he is paying the checks, he gets to do that. 

 

My only point for putting the video out there is that Bruce at least is painting a different picture. Is he telling the truth? I have no idea. Only they really know. But in fairness, I have not seen him lie directly. He usually has someone do it for him so he can claim no knowledge if it benefits him. I will say, again if he is to be believed, both Kyle and Doug are having a pretty big impact on the draft and player personnel in general.

1

 

I think I need to start adding the "not directed at you" disclaimer more when I respond lol...

 

I was just giving my opinion on what I think happened and why, in contrast to the conventional wisdom that gets ingrained into people's perspectives far too often.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

More on the reports about the Skins' FO, the football people, and Snyder before the draft. A slightly different perspective given by a few of them:

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

I definitely know Sheehan is completely on board--right now at least--in saying if Haskins turns out to be legit Snyder deserves 100% of the credit for him being a Redskin. That doesn't mean, though, that if new "info" comes in stating otherwise he won't change his mind about Dan deserving praise. Nor do I think the rest of his media brethren are as open and gun-ho about making sure it's seen as a Dan victory of sorts should Haskins turn out to be good.

 

 

Sheehan seems so convinced that it's Dan and others who joined his podcast like Keim have echoed that -- that I think it would be difficult for Sheehan to back off.  If information changes on it, I don't think it would move him simply because he thinks they have to change the narrative as to the behind the scenes story because you can't have a floating story about this being Dan's guy.   So he expects a new version of this story to be floated out there for PR sake.  In short, I think you got Sheehan locked in.

 

I think what solidifies that for him is you got guys like Keim echoing it in particular.  Keim for example will correct Sheehan on narratives including in a recent podcast when Sheehan goes they went for Alex without consulting Jay -- Keim corrected him saying that Jay wasn't involved in the trade but knew he'd be a target.  Keim didn't correct Sheehan on the Dan pushed Haskins narrative-- he agrees with it.   Ditto Hoffman and most who cover the team.    And they all agree that a new narrative has to emerge on it now to make it look like Haskins was Jay's guy all along.  So yeah I'd be really surprised if they use that same new narrative to contradict their previous reporting when they've already laid out why a new narrative will emerge. 

 

Sheehan really though isn't that tough on Dan relatively speaking.  He agrees that Dan had to do something to reignite the fan base.  In his mind Bruce's mostly boring off seasons has contributed to the malaise with fans and declining TV ratings and stadium attendance.  Heck he more or less said if he had to pick his poison between Dan's style (aggressive-often failing-but interesting) versus Bruce's style (mediocre to failing but boring) he'd go Dan -- with the exception of trading away picks. 

 

Sheehan also has been leading the chorus that Dan hasn't been involved with personnel since RG3.  As much as he loves Shanny, he says Shanny was on board with that RG3 trade (but wasn't in on McNab).  Sheehan said he has heard that Dan is back to interfering starting with the defensive coordinator exercise earlier this year.  He said he heard they were struggling to sell tickets and doesn't blame Dan for feeling compelled to do something about it.

 

Personally, I do believe Dan pushed Haskins at least from the stand point of being part of the soup.  I can buy that some others in the building where in on it, too and it wasn't just Dan.  Heck I can even ride with Jay fell in love late with Haskins as the WP narrative pushed.  But regardless, we know that Dan dug him -- so he'd get credit for being right if he works out.  I'll give him credit if Haskins works out.  But I don't think it matters if Dan gets credit or not because if Haskins works out it would save the franchise.  So I think Dan wins no matter what the true narrative is. 

 

This franchise has been a train wreck more or less at QB since Rypien winning the last SB.  There has been on occasional glimpse like Brad Johnson and Kirk but by and large its been mostly mediocre to failure.   And to say Dan doesn't have the Midas touch on QB would be a wild understatement. And it could have even been worse.  Imagine for example if they weren't outbid by the Jets for Sanchez.  And if the beat guys were correct that Dan had to be talked out of his man crush on Brady Quinn by the Redskins scouts.

 

So if they finally get it right --whether Dan gets credit for it or not I don't think it will matter to him because the team will be good.  So he'd be vindicated either way.  I don't mean this sarcastically but I do think the dude (along with the FO) is due to finally get it right.  Heck I can probably give my son who is in elementary school 10 shots or so at picking a QB and eventually I'd assume he'd get at least one of them right -- just on pure random luck.   Dan is due for getting one.  So while at the very least I'd presume Dan had some company in the FO as for liking Haskins -- tough to question that Dan himself didn't like him.  So he'd deserve some props. 

 

My take on Dan isn't that different from Sheehan.  We both think they are unlikely to win anything with Dan at the helm because we don't think he gets how to build a winning culture among other things.  But we both think one thing can do it -- get lucky at QB.  So if Haskins is finally the solution than Dan might finally have a winner. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 hours ago, goskins10 said:

So this is a very interesting interview Bruce gave to Stephen A Smith. I have been on record as despising Bruce Allen - still do. However, his method of spreading false narratives is to do it through leaks and other people. He is careful not to say things public that are incorrect - at least as far as I know. In this interview he paints a much different picture than many fans believe and much of the media have reported - for what it's worth. 

 

If he is to believed (a big If I get it), his response to Dan picking Haskins: They let the story go about Dan's fascination with Haskins for the fans (not sure what that was supposed to mean, but OK). But in reality it was Doug and Kyle who ran the draft. They had the plan going in and they stuck to it - including they were not trading anything to get Haskins. If you believe him, they were never trading up. In fact based on him, Kyle and Doug made the picks. Bruce's input was to get the trade done for Sweat once he started to drop. At least that's what I got out of it. 

 

He states that Dan's son and Haskins did go to the same school, but about 6 yrs apart and do not know each other. And that despite rumors Dan has not been to a player workout for about 10 yrs. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I saw the First Take interview also the Total Access one.  This is just me speculating but here's my theory about how Bruce can be telling truth and at the same time he isn't contradicting the stories that the beats guy have on this.

 

 There were two national reporters (forgetting whom) during the process who said they heard Doug loved Haskins.   If that's so, as long as Doug is mentioned then it would be true.  

 

Keim slipped in a podcast as an answer to a question -- if I recall it was one of the earlier ones he did with Sheehan that he didn't get the vibe that Kyle wanted Haskins at 15.  Now maybe that again is the not wanting a QB period drill at 15 versus having an issue with Haskins.     But everyone seems to agree that everyone is on board now.  So that's the key for me.  Did Jay fall for Haskins later in the process as some contend especially over that dinner?  Or was it that Jay just wanted a pass rusher more and now that he got it, he's cool.  Regardless, he seems into it.   To me how the soup was made doesn't matter at this point as long as Jay is into it with the exception of Dan needs to stay hands off with Haskins unlike what happened with RG3.

 

I don't think Bruce is a good GM but he isn't dumb.   I don't think it wouldn't escape him that he'd have to quash a narrative out there that Dan pushed this for multiple reasons -- I'd presume they are very aware of the backstory about Dan's man crush on RG3 so this would have some of that flavor and it might cause some unnecessary backdrop tension with Haskins and Jay.  RG3 to this day says Shanny didn't want him and that was part of the problem in his mind.   Going down this rodeo again would be a PR nightmare let alone the whole thing launching off with common themes on that front.  Whether the story is true or not, you'd still want to go out of your way to quash it.  You'd want to reverse that narrative. 

 

Bruce for his faults has actually killed it in his interviews this year.  I used to say for a dude who is supposedly the ultimate politician he is very clumsy in interviews (what made it more surprising to me is he made mistakes a really short sample) by saying things that can be easily mocked or questioned.  Doug has improved a lot on that front too this year.  I think both of them got some good media training this year.  And I don't fault them for it.  When you are out there talking to the media -- its a job to present the organization well.  Many people in a high profile job like that do get media training.  Bruce is so much better at it now.  Doug too.   

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, Califan007 said:

More on the reports about the Skins' FO, the football people, and Snyder before the draft. A slightly different perspective given by a few of them:

 

 

I've seen that before.  They are more or less just saying if Dan was behind it then he likely made the right call and he has the right to make the call.   I got two thoughts on that.

 

1.  If Dan pushed it or even liked the pick if it was pushed by someone else -- then he should get credit either way.  Why not?  if it was really Doug, Jay, or Kyle pushing it -- Dan still had to like the pick otherwise I presume he'd have stopped it.  If Dan was the driver of it and got others on board -- then he'd get credit too.  I guess the point they make is if their theory is correct and Dan was pushing it then good for him if it works out.

 

2.  It bugs me from a superstition stand point to do premature celebration of any pick let alone for a QB.  It's not like with our previous shots at the well most pundits thought we screwed it up from the get go.  It was a celebration too that we got our guy.  I got an open mind about Haskins being the guy.  But I need it to actually happen.  People liking the pick is really meaningless to the bottom line. 

 

I think the one immediate victory lap Dan can take or anyone else who pushed it is that its generated serious buzz as i talked about in the Haskins thread. It's not quite 2012 levels but it's the closest thing to it.  You can't beat having a young hyped QB from a PR-hope stand point.  

 

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've seen that before.  They are more or less just saying if Dan was behind it then he likely made the right call and he has the right to make the call.   I got two thoughts on that.

 

1.  If Dan pushed it or even liked the pick if it was pushed by someone else -- then he should get credit either way.  Why not?  if it was really Doug, Jay, or Kyle pushing it -- Dan still had to like the pick otherwise I presume he'd have stopped it.  If Dan was the driver of it and got others on board -- then he'd get credit too.  I guess the point they make is if their theory is correct and Dan was pushing it then good for him if it works out.

 

2.  It bugs me from a superstition stand point to do premature celebration of any pick let alone for a QB.  It's not like with our previous shots at the well most pundits thought we screwed it up.  It was celebration too that we got our guy.  I got an open mind about Haskins being the guy.  But I need it to actually happen.  People liking the pick is really meaningless to the bottom line. 

 

 

i mentioned this elsewhere, they seem to be doing a victory lap before the race starts. Only leads to landing harder if it falls apart. I would prefer a more measured reaction. Nothing wrong with being happy with what you did in the draft, but let's see how they pan out before getting too excited. 

 

I do have a theory. Probably belongs in the conspiracy thread - but it relates to this specifically. It feels like some glass ceiling has been lifted on the Redskins. All of a sudden they are having Bruce on all over the place and I have seen an interview or two with Kyle. It almost felt like the Redskins were hands off unless you dog them for a variety of reasons and now for some reason the message has been sent it's Ok to be nice again. I am not saying much of the criticism has not been deserved. But Bruce doing the circuit is really new and the entire tone of national coverage is different. In fairness that may have been a Redskins decision. If so they maybe have lifted the self imposed media ban. Either way they are much out in the open than I remember this group being since Shanny left.

Something else - I have heard Tony Wyllie's name mentioned by several broadcasts like the one I posted above. Maybe he has gained some influence over Bruce/Dan and let them know the team can't hide from the media? If they embrace them maybe the criticism may not be as harsh? 

 

Either way, this off season feels really different in terms of the level and tone of the national media coverage. 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

i mentioned this elsewhere, they seem to be doing a victory lap before the race starts. Only leads to landing harder if it falls apart. I would prefer a more measured reaction. Nothing wrong with being happy with what you did in the draft, but let's see how they pan out before getting too excited. 

 

I did love RG3 and soaked up all the hype and it burned me so maybe that's added to my cynicism.    As for Haskins, I got some concerns but he does have crazy arm talent so I can see him being the guy.  But will see.  Getting a franchise QB in the draft especially if he isn't the first one taken  -- isn't easy.   Plenty of first round QBs who have failed were adored by the so called media draft geeks. 

 

I can buy a narrative that Jay liked Haskins but wanted a pass rusher more and now that he has both he is jazzed about it.    My only concern about Dan is not really whether he pushed it or not.  My concern is i don't see a narrative that conflicts that he has a man crush on the dude.  We can argue that he was hands off or hands on the pick.  But I haven't seen one yet that indicates he didn't really dig Haskins.   And him digging Haskins is fine as long as it doesn't become buddy status like its happened with RG3, Portis, etc.  Because that hasn't always ended well in the context in creating tension with the coaches, etc. 

 

17 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I do have a theory. Probably belongs in the conspiracy thread - but it relates to this specifically. It feels like some glass ceiling has been lifted on the Redskins. All of a sudden they are having Bruce on all over the place and I have seen an interview or two with Kyle. It almost felt like the Redskins were hands off unless you dog them for a variety of reasons and now for some reason the message has been sent it's Ok to be nice again. I am not saying much of the criticism has not been deserved. But Bruce doing the circuit is really new and the entire tone of national coverage is different. In fairness that may have been a Redskins decision. If so they maybe have lifted the self imposed media ban. Either way they are much out in the open than I remember this group being since Shanny left.

Something else - I have heard Tony Wyllie's name mentioned by several broadcasts like the one I posted above. Maybe he has gained some influence over Bruce/Dan and let them know the team can't hide from the media? If they embrace them maybe the criticism may not be as harsh? 

 

 

I am not in the media business.  But i am in a business that deals with the media.  And my 2 cents from that experience is that whomever decided in that FO to start talking more deserves kudos.   I think it helps.  I don't think it's good for them PR wise to be perceived as being either afraid to face the scrutiny or be perceived as a team that tends to avoid transparency.   So I think it's smart to put yourself out front like most other teams do.  I actually think it would serve Dan to do the same.  I don't think the Greta Garbo image serves him IMO. 

 

As someone who has seen their clients pre and post media training,  I am convinced both Bruce and Doug got some good off season media training because they seemed transformed on that front.    They are both much better at avoiding the faux pas statements.  They both come off smoother.  Doug always comes off likable. But Bruce to me has really improved on that front. 

[SkinsFTW]

"Dan is due for getting a QB even if its just on pure random luck."

 

To me it's just waiting for another comical ending. Wile E. Coyote just strapped on another package of ACME TNT, what's going to happen next? Is there any doubt?

 

It adds to the effect that this was in fact the owners choice. He has his guy out there on the media circuit doing high fives over the draft.

 

To me it's not that the QB (the TNT) is the wrong one. It's Dan himself. Haskins or RG3 or Ramsey probably turn out much better QBs on the Packers, Eagles, Steelers, or Giants. Maybe Campbell as well.

 

Which is why I'm already thinking that it's very likely that Daniel Jones is pretty decent or even good and Haskins will likely look like a bust unless Gruden performs a miracle and then can continue that miracle after the first season. It'd truly be a miracle. Not because Haskins isn't the real deal but because of Dan Snyder's soup sandwich.

 

Also, those above mentioned teams didn't want Haskins in the first.

 

Another interesting thing I heard was after our 4th round pick of Love, Pat Kirwin stated on SeriusXM that despite all the praise up to that point on our picks that we had chosen 2 players that likely a few teams had taken off their boards completely. Meaning Sweat and Love.

 

And Kirwin thought that Haskins was the best Qb in the draft but more than a few teams didn't have him rated highly.

 

 

[bakedtater1]

12 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Is it against the rules to say something good about Bruce in this thread ?

Or would it be like posting a "Florida-like" story that did not actually come from Florida, in the "Yep, Florida" thread in Tailgate ?

#bruceallendrinkscoorslightandsodoi

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sheehan seems so convinced that it's Dan and others who joined his podcast like Keim have echoed that -- that I think it would be difficult for Sheehan to back off.  If information changes on it, I don't think it would move him simply because he thinks they have to change the narrative as to the behind the scenes story because you can't have a floating story about this being Dan's guy.   So he expects a new version of this story to be floated out there for PR sake.  In short, I think you got Sheehan locked in.

 

My take on Dan isn't that different from Sheehan.  We both think they are unlikely to win anything with Dan at the helm because we don't think he gets how to build a winning culture among other things.  But we both think one thing can do it -- get lucky at QB.  So if Haskins is finally the solution than Dan might finally have a winner. 

 

 

 

The only thing is, we're talking about what's being said now. We probably won't know if Haskins is a legit QB for another 2 years. So much can occur over that timespan to either change people's minds or change their narratives that it won't matter to them (or many people following them) what they're saying now. And it can be subtle...but sports journalism is hot takes driven, and hot takes by nature involve ignoring what you've said in the past or might say in the future for the sake of getting out click-generating opinions and speculation now. I love following Freezing Cold Takes on twitter for the very reason lol...

 

So just like many of us have our doubts about Snyder due to past actions, I have my doubts about the (mostly) local media due to their past actions. VERY few of them take the time to put forth multiple possibilities or perceptions when it comes to Snyder and the Redskins--Keim, Galdi and Sheehan are mostly the exception, although Sheehan conveys the negative take in a far more animated and emotional way with his voice raising and a bitter tone in his voice as he does, while the positive takes tend to be delivered in a flatter tone and more as "Hey, you know, this could be it as well" lol...but at least he does that. He's practically a Snyder sycophant compared to Loverro, though lol...I've come to interpret his takes as schtick more than anything. It's the only way I can bare listening to him...and he can be funny.

[NewCliche21]

Strangely, Keim just said on NFL Radio Network that Daniel Jones was a possibility and basically said that some people wanted Haskins but wouldn't trade up for him (nobody thought he'd fall), some wanted Rosen due to experience and upside.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Edit

 

 

I am not in the media business.  But i am in a business that deals with the media.  And my 2 cents from that experience is that whomever decided in that FO to start talking more deserves kudos.   I think it helps.  I don't think it's good for them PR wise to be perceived as being either afraid to face the scrutiny or be perceived as a team that tends to avoid transparency.   So I think it's smart to put yourself out front like most other teams do.  I actually think it would serve Dan to do the same.  I don't think the Greta Garbo image serves him IMO. 

 

As someone who has seen their clients pre and post media training,  I am convinced both Bruce and Doug got some good off season media training because they seemed transformed on that front.    They are both much better at avoiding the faux pas statements.  They both come off smoother.  Doug always comes off likable. But Bruce to me has really improved on that front. 

 

i agree that for whatever reason it's happening, it is good for the team leadership to be more visible. The problem with avoiding the public is they are left to make up their own narrative. And that narrative is rarely positive. People will naturally gravitate to the worst possible options.  

 

Also agree Bruce seems more comfortable in from of a camera - not an easy to do in fairness. We sit at home and are heavy in our critique but it's not that easy, especially when you are getting some tough questions. 

 

i hope this is not a small bump and they go back to hiding, especially if it starts to be tough. Stay out and take the beatings and you iwll find people start giving you the benefit of the doubt more often. 

[JoggingGod]

Jones could have been a possibility if both Murray, Haskins and Lock were gone maybe. I don’t buy at all that we seriously wanted him over the top 3.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think the one immediate victory lap Dan can take or anyone else who pushed it is that its generated serious buzz as i talked about in the Haskins thread. It's not quite 2012 levels but it's the closest thing to it.  You can't beat having a young hyped QB from a PR-hope stand point.  

 

2

 

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

i mentioned this elsewhere, they seem to be doing a victory lap before the race starts. Only leads to landing harder if it falls apart. I would prefer a more measured reaction. Nothing wrong with being happy with what you did in the draft, but let's see how they pan out before getting too excited.

1

 

 

I don't perceive this "victory lap" in the same way as you guys do.

 

To me, the victory isn't "look how great our draft was". The victory is that a culmination of 6+ months of criticism and descriptions as a dumpster fire organization are being temporarily put to rest. Nobody wants to talk to them about what kind of message they sent out by putting in a waiver claim on Reuben Foster--all charges dropped and no suspension. Nobody wants to talk to them about how Swearinger was right and got cut for "telling the truth"--they signed Landon Collins who seems genuinely thrilled to be playing with past teammates and for the same team Sean Taylor played for. Nobody wants to talk to them about half-filled stadiums or about Lafemina--the fanbase seems legitimately energized, at least for the moment. The "victory lap" isn't about puffing their chests about how they nailed the draft...it's an opportunity to try and capitalize on an extremely rare moment where the sports media sees them in a positive light and will not be antagonistic towards them. They wanna keep the optimistic hot takes going to keep the fan base more invested.

 

I do wish they had put someone else out there, though, instead of Allen...I suspect that if Kyle Smith were doing all the interviews the talk of victory laps wouldn't be as prominent and would instead be replaced with optimism that it means Smith is going to become a larger, more important part of the front office. Then again, it could e seen as a slap in the face of Doug Williams to trot out Kyle instead of him....then again (lol), after the serious gaffes Williams has made lately when put in front of a mic or a reporter with a note pad, maybe he should lay low for awhile. Would be turrrrible if Doug said something to kill this positive momentum. Maybe Allen is the best person to put out there right now afterall. Plus, as Art indicated, Allen was who these sports talk shows requested anyway.

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I don't perceive this "victory lap" in the same way as you guys do.

 

To me, the victory isn't "look how great our draft was". The victory is that a culmination of 6+ months of criticism and descriptions as a dumpster fire organization are being temporarily put to rest.

 

I am not debating that Haskins in particular hasn't accomplished that -- I've been arguably making that point that loudest in particular on the Haskins thread.   I think their problem ran much deeper than media love.  (I know you suggested the same so not saying you are saying otherwise)  Their status as a flagship organization looked like was in jeopardy.  No Sunday Night games two years in a row.  Not even a 4 PM game next season.  They are literally being mentioned nationally as a team that is bleeding fans by one national media guy and goofed on a national show as a team not discussed because no one cares about them.   

 

Hoffman was talking during if I recall the owners meetings that he recalls that the Redskins were once a destination stop for national reporters to go to the Redskins table to see what's up but no more.   Russini herself said when she was told she'd be assigned the Redskins station for the draft that it would be a boring spot to be at -- but instead it ended up the hot spot to be.

 

Having said that it's not the first off season where they've gotten positive media hype.  So the onus is on them to now deliver -- because the idea of good off season vibes but that doesn't translate to in season good results -- won't be a new dance for this organization.  But i think at the very least they've bought themselves some needed good PR in the midst of arguably one of their toughest times as to dealing with fan malaise. 

 

34 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

They wanna keep the optimistic hot takes going to keep the fan base more invested.

 

Agree and I'll give them they've been doing a good job at it.  I'd go as far as saying it's likely an orchestrated effort.  And if so it's smart.  If what some beat guys have said is true which is they were struggling to sell season tickets weeks back -- I can see them having a meeting of sorts where they developed a game plan to help fix it.   This media tour and attempts to control the message-narrative feels like its part of a plan.  And they've done a nice job on it for what its worth.

 

When Dan supposedly had some marathon post Eagles game meeting -- I wonder if this topic wasn't discussed because its certainly different as to how they are running things from the past.  They are not only more aggressive at getting out there to spread the word -- they are also IMO discernibly better at delivering the message.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Also agree Bruce seems more comfortable in from of a camera - not an easy to do in fairness. We sit at home and are heavy in our critique but it's not that easy, especially when you are getting some tough questions. 

 

i hope this is not a small bump and they go back to hiding, especially if it starts to be tough. Stay out and take the beatings and you iwll find people start giving you the benefit of the doubt more often. 

 

It's not easy.  I've done it though and I know plenty of 20 something year olds who have done it and are good at it.  It takes practice and training.  And its Bruce's job to be good at it.  He's the freaking President of the team.  He should be adept or train to be adept at handling the media.  And I think he indeed has gotten a lot better at it.   Most people in his position around the league deal with the media and live to tell the tale.  I am not saying you are saying otherwise -- but just saying I don't really give a dude who is pushing 60 if I recall who has been in the business this long that much of a leash in their ability to represent his team well including handling tough media questions. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not debating that Haskins in particular hasn't accomplished that -- I've been arguably making that point that loudest in particular on the Haskins thread.   I think their problem ran much deeper than media love.  (I know you suggested the same so not saying you are saying otherwise)  Their status as a flagship organization looked like was in jeopardy.  No Sunday Night games two years in a row.  Not even a 4 PM game next season.  They are literally being mentioned nationally as a team that is bleeding fans by one national media guy and goofed on a national show as a team not discussed because no one cares about them.  

 

Having said that it's not the first off season where they've gotten positive media hype. 

 

 

Agree and I'll give them they've been doing a good job at it.  I'd go as far as saying it's likely an orchestrated effort.  And if so it's smart.  If what some beat guys have said is true which is they were struggling to sell season tickets weeks back -- I can see them having a meeting of sorts where they developed a game plan to help fix it.   This media tour and attempts to control the message-narrative feels like its part of a plan.  And they've done a nice job on it for what its worth.

 

When Dan supposedly had some marathon post Eagles game meeting -- I wonder if this topic wasn't discussed because its certainly different as to how they are running things from the past.  They are not only more aggressive at getting out there to spread the word -- they are also IMO discernibly better at delivering the message.

 

4

 

First part....I think the positive media hype this offseason (or at least right now) is different than times in the past because the Skins had seemingly bottomed out in terms of negative press and pessimistic hot takes--and as you said, no Sunday night games or 4:00 pm starts is evidence of more than just negative hot takes are at play. Can you imagine, though, if Haskins wins the starting position and plays well all season...and the NFL never showcases him at all? lol...That flex schedule will get worked overtime if so.

 

So this positivity is like a rebound, a comeback story even if just for the next month or so. For me personally--and I imagine quite a number of Skins fans as well-- I actually found myself looking forward to training camp right after the draft ended. It surprised me lol... I literally thought "Damn, can't wait to see how training camp goes" and then thought "Whoa...where did that come from?" I haven't thought that for a long time. But I don't chalk it up to Haskins alone. If Foster were still facing charges and suspended indefinitely and Collins chose some other team and the rest of the draft was a mixed bag of potential and reaches, Haskins wouldn't move the needle too much on his own (again, at least for me). Sweat, Foster, Collins, Guice, Mclaurin...they all play a huge role in me actually caring about the Skins before preseason starts. But I will admit, having Haskins at the top of that list of players to be intrigued by does ramp up the interest quite a bit.

 

EDIT: forgot about 2nd part lol...agree completely. Sheehan has been on the belief that Snyder's #1 goal this offseason was to turn around the fanbase perceptions and interest more so than to "build for the future", and even said it might be a better way to go right now. He was mostly talking personnel moves, but I think all possible strategies to right the ship would/should apply.