Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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17 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Watch Dan give him an ownership stake in the team.

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WP revived the other day the narrative that was popular before which is that Schaffer would take over football operations.   Some of the people covering the team say if Bruce is still in the building its somewhat of a farce but I'd still take it over some nostalgia type name. 

 

 

 

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The fact that we didn't draft a QB (or two) to sit behind Alex Smith and grow through crappy years like this absolutely sickens me. Quarterback is THE most IMPORTANT position in all of SPORTS. period. period. period. 

 

As ring-a-round as the Cousins era was, people still showed up to the games to see it. The Alex Smith stuff is a joke. They didn't even have to extend him that quickly, but they fulfilled the need to shut the fans up by "signing a QB long-term". 

 

I just hope everyone understands something around here; Smith is not a very good QB. You're literally going to have Brunell 2.0. There is zero future potential to do anything with this guy, so we're literally waiting out the years until manifest destiny. 

 

Between Smith and McCoy we have $23,775,000 locked up in that position in 2019. Given their cap position and how much they've **** the bed, their best option to draft someone around the Kyle Lauletta area of the draft and have his contact generally renewable by the time Smith expires. This negates a really strong momentum push teams usually have when they're spending little to nothing on a QB until he needs an extension: Seattle (reconstructing now), Dallas currently, Texans currently, Rams currently, Chicago currently, Baltimore (next season), Eagles currently, Kansas City currently. Kind of funny how all of these teams are in the playoffs. The truth is, in the NFL, you need to takes a stab at a young QB consistently until you HIT. This game is dictated and ran by the guys in the pocket; the Redskins are literally in this position, not because between 2 QB's we have 2 good legs, but because we have no real plan, no real future, no real progress to be made, no future investments, and no excitement being produced by the most important position in sports. 

 

I can literally deal with Bruce Allen coming back again, but I'm unsure how I'm going to handle watching this offense try to get first downs in the most pathetic of ways. 

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So I obviously agree that the entire Football OPS department needs to be cleaned out, I am not sure why Doug Williams gets a pass from some people, maybe its nostalgia or something to that effect, but I do not see that he has done anything special in his entire career as a talent evaluator type.  He did manage to make a fool of himself and this franchise with his statements on at least a few occasions.  And seriously, how does human stain Tony Wylie still have a job, what does he have on these guys;  this team is just a constant cycle of PR blunders.

 

I also think Kyle Smith and the college scouting department get way too much of a pass.  Take a look at the draft history of any of the teams that are really competing today (throw the Steelers in there as well as a every year contender).  You will see a pattern, each of those teams was able to find one or more "playmakers" (Kamara, Hill, Allen, Dak, Russell, Thomas, Brown, Conner, the list goes on and on) in the draft (and typically not the first round or two).  Going back to the theme of self preservation at Redskins Park I think after the botched drafts of years past, now we are just drafting "safely".  We do not have the eye for talent that a true GM would bring to a respected organization so we just draft like we are trying to win a 1985 wild card game.  Deep down they know they will likely miss on picks, so in the interest of self preservation they take the easy/safe picks (Alabama defenders) and then try to find gems not by having a great eye for NFL talent but looking for  individuals with attitude, injury, etc problems who have slipped.  Looking at how we handle our free agency pickups you'll see the same pattern emerge - Alex (very safe, very unspectacular and of course a botched contract);  PRich (injury prone, and currently injured.);  Foster (Alabama;  attitude issues).  Again, the evaluators are not smart enough to  identify true value in FA so they need to take these flyers, which most often do not work out.

 

For me this is sort of where the hopelessness sets in, if we march out this same circus I have no confidence that they can assemble a team that can compete, which is why bringing Jay back didnt move the needle for me one way or another - it just doesn't matter (I do think he is basically the definition of average and has fostered a terrible culture on the team).  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rocky52Mc said:

The fact that we didn't draft a QB (or two) to sit behind Alex Smith and grow through crappy years like this absolutely sickens me. Quarterback is THE most IMPORTANT position in all of SPORTS. period. period. period.

 

I can literally deal with Bruce Allen coming back again, but I'm unsure how I'm going to handle watching this offense try to get first downs in the most pathetic of ways. 

NFL Scouts Are 'Terrified' of 2019 QB Draft Class (back from June) :unsure:

Sorry I can't deal with BA. Snyder can put him anywhere, he'll find a way to bring more disgrace and mockery upon this franchise.

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On 1/3/2019 at 4:54 PM, kleese said:

 

The only thing I take issue with is the “cheated them, lied to them, abused them” part. I think that’s off-base. I don’t think Dan Snyder owes me jack squat— and I’ve been a die hard since the early 80’s. This is a simple business transaction: he produces a product and as a consumer I have a choice to partake or pass. I don’t think he ever “duped” me or tricked me into buying his product. It’s a conscious choice I make to stick around. I don’t do it because I’m somehow “fooled” by their shenanigans. I am well aware of the record, how they operate, and how they are viewed. Obviously a lot of fans have chosen to bail. Can’t say I blame them. I choose to stay because I still enjoy it overall. It’s a choice. This isn’t an abusive relationship because I’m not being held hostage. The door is right there. Some choose to use it. Some don’t. Those of us that stay really can’t come back and say we didn’t know what was coming. 

I cant disagree more with that.  In THEORY its a simple business transaction.  He has a product, and you buy it.  But what if the company lies about the product?  What if it doesnt actually work?  If any other business did that, with any product or service you bought, you would call them cheats.  You would call them liars.  You would say they owe you.

 

The issue with Snyder isnt that hes put a bad product out, though thats pretty bad.  The issue is that they have, at times when they knew that people would no longer continue to purchase the product, deliberately lied to them in order to get them to re-purchase.  They lied when they hired Scotty Mac, because telling the truth would have meant less sales.  They lied about the season ticket waiting list to ramp up demand.  if any other company did that in a different industry, and got caught out, they would be sued.  Now most companies get away with that, but people still call them sleazy.

 

And you clearly dont understand abuse even a little bit, if you think "I’m not being held hostage. The door is right there. Some choose to use it. Some don’t." is somehow reality when it comes to abuse. People in power since the dawn of time have known that most people are gullible, succeptable, and easy to manipulate.  You'd never say that to a domestic abuse victim.

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Posted (edited)

Interesting discussion, I didn't really think about the topic in this way until Czaben ran a segment about is there a civil war going on with  Redskins fans.    And taking that discussion and added another debate on another show and mix them together -- I'd generalize it like this:

 

You got three different mindsets mostly:

 

A. Fans who are fed up and think they are doing something on behalf of their team by voicing their displeasure.  If you sit quietly and do nothing, you aren't a good fan because you are enabling the decision makers by staying quiet and that in effect endorses what they are doing.

 

B. Fans who are also fed up but either will grin and bear it or just abandon the team entirely.  

 

C. Fans who like what the FO is doing for the most part.  (a small minority albeit sometimes vocal group because they feel a little under siege)

 

And all groups are annoyed at the other for different reasons.

 

Group A are annoyed at B for doing nothing and or how can you just give up on your team.  And annoyed at group C because they think its that group that empowers the FO that hey fans got our back. 

 

Group B are annoyed at A because they think they are wasting their time trying to poke the FO and if it bothers you so much just leave like some of them are doing because in their minds it will never change.

 

Group C are annoyed at A because their view point runs big time at odds with it and don't understand at all those in B who just leave considering things are actually good in their minds so what gives?

 

I don''t think it all breaks exactly like that and some don't fit any of these groups but I do find some of that on point.  And IMO its the downside of rooting for a team that has done poorly for so long and being run by ownership who doesn't really talk and share their vision much unlike some other teams.   It breeds cynicism and mystery IMO. 

 

So we are all left scrambling to our own interpretations.  I actually think Dan would do a lot better if he talked once in awhile.  I don't think its a coincidence that he's at a low point with fans during a period where he's basically ceased talking.  Years back he's at least talk once a year predraft, etc.  Now the dude is mysterious as heck.  So we have all these competing narratives about him and he does nothing to dispel them himself.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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45 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

I cant disagree more with that.  In THEORY its a simple business transaction.  He has a product, and you buy it.  But what if the company lies about the product?  What if it doesnt actually work?  If any other business did that, with any product or service you bought, you would call them cheats.  You would call them liars.  You would say they owe you.

 

The issue with Snyder isnt that hes put a bad product out, though thats pretty bad.  The issue is that they have, at times when they knew that people would no longer continue to purchase the product, deliberately lied to them in order to get them to re-purchase.  They lied when they hired Scotty Mac, because telling the truth would have meant less sales.  They lied about the season ticket waiting list to ramp up demand.  if any other company did that in a different industry, and got caught out, they would be sued.  Now most companies get away with that, but people still call them sleazy.

 

And you clearly dont understand abuse even a little bit, if you think "I’m not being held hostage. The door is right there. Some choose to use it. Some don’t." is somehow reality when it comes to abuse. People in power since the dawn of time have known that most people are gullible, succeptable, and easy to manipulate.  You'd never say that to a domestic abuse victim.

 

Right because this is a football team. They don’t ACTUALLY have a physical or emotional power to hold me hostage the way an abuser would in a real relationship. There aren’t kids involved, etc. This is a leisure time activity and if I leave there is absolutely zero threat of retribution from the “abuser.” Heck, they won’t even know I’m gone. 

 

There is no abuse between the Redskins, Snyder, and the fans. I’ve never been “lied to.” The product is the product. It’s plain as day to see. If you are somehow “fooled” by it then it’s shame on you as a consumer. I know exactly what I’m getting when I choose to buy a Skins jersey and sit down on Sunday to watch them. I’ve necer been tricked t felt duped. The only thing I will concede would be the waiting list and any lies that may have been told in direct relation to ticket sales. That fits the narrative a little but doesn’t change my overall stance on this. It’s a bad product. Has been for a long time. For someo reason I still enjoy consuming it. S I keep doing it. I feel I’m getting my money’s worth. I know they suck at it all around. I’m not fooled. 

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Interesting discussion, I didn't really think about the topic in this way until Czaben ran a segment about is there a civil war going on with  Redskins fans.    And taking that discussion and added another debate on another show and mix them together -- I'd generalize it like this:

 

You got three different mindsets mostly:

 

A. Fans who are fed up and think they are doing something on behalf of their team by voicing their displeasure.  If you sit quietly and do nothing, you aren't a good fan because you are enabling the decision makers by staying quiet and that in effect endorses what they are doing.

 

B. Fans who are also fed up but either will grin and bear it or just abandon the team entirely.  

 

C. Fans who like what the FO is doing for the most part.  (a small minority albeit sometimes vocal group because they feel a little under siege)

 

And all groups are annoyed at the other for different reasons.

 

Group A are annoyed at B for doing nothing and or how can you just give up on your team.  And annoyed at group C because they think its that group that empowers the FO that hey fans got our back. 

 

Group B are annoyed at A because they think they are wasting their time trying to poke the FO and if it bothers you so much just leave like some of them are doing because in their minds it will never change.

 

Group C are annoyed at A because their view point runs big time at odds with it and don't understand at all those in B who just leave considering things are actually good in their minds so what gives?

 

I don''t think it all breaks exactly like that and some don't fit any of these groups but I do find some of that on point.  And IMO its the downside of rooting for a team that has done poorly for so long and being run by ownership who doesn't really talk and share their vision much unlike some other teams.   It breeds cynicism and mystery IMO. 

 

So we are all left scrambling to our own interpretations.  I actually think Dan would do a lot better if he talked once in awhile.  I don't think its a coincidence that he's at a low point with fans during a period where he's basically ceased talking.  Years back he's at least talk once a year predraft, etc.  Now the dude is mysterious as heck.  So we have all these competing narratives about him and he does nothing to dispel them himself.  

Good post. Just wanted to comment on the Danny thing. I’m no Danny fan but I actually do feel for him a little when it comes to going radio silent. Fans begged for him to get the hell out of the way and it seems to have pounded him into seclusion. I truly think ever since the Griffin debacle he’s pretty hands off, the problem now becomes he has an inability to either identify or attract a top of the line personnel guy. A guy with great leadership ability. A guy who sets the direction for the entire organization. While I think Bruce gets far too much hate and has done some things that get under appreciated, I don’t believe he’s that guy. He’s not the guy to build a championship roster, he’s just not. And I’ve soured on him more recently the more I’ve heard about lack of communication b/w front office and coaching staff. That’s not acceptable. 

 

We we need to find our Chris Ballard. Or Ryan Pace. A guy that can repair the relationship with the media and fans. A guy who makes decisions to put butts in seats 3-5 years from now bc they finally built a sustainable winning product, not a guy who is making short sighted decisions to hang onto his job. 

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If Bruce's job positioned is changed but hes not fired, I'm curious as to how many hats this team thinks hes capable of wearing and failing at. 

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2 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Good post. Just wanted to comment on the Danny thing. I’m no Danny fan but I actually do feel for him a little when it comes to going radio silent. Fans begged for him to get the hell out of the way and it seems to have pounded him into seclusion. I truly think ever since the Griffin debacle he’s pretty hands off, the problem now becomes he has an inability to either identify or attract a top of the line personnel guy. A guy with great leadership ability. A guy who sets the direction for the entire organization. While I think Bruce gets far too much hate and has done some things that get under appreciated, I don’t believe he’s that guy. He’s not the guy to build a championship roster, he’s just not. And I’ve soured on him more recently the more I’ve heard about lack of communication b/w front office and coaching staff. That’s not acceptable. 

 

We we need to find our Chris Ballard. Or Ryan Pace. A guy that can repair the relationship with the media and fans. A guy who makes decisions to put butts in seats 3-5 years from now bc they finally built a sustainable winning product, not a guy who is making short sighted decisions to hang onto his job. 

 

Well said.

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2 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Good post. Just wanted to comment on the Danny thing. I’m no Danny fan but I actually do feel for him a little when it comes to going radio silent. Fans begged for him to get the hell out of the way and it seems to have pounded him into seclusion. I truly think ever since the Griffin debacle he’s pretty hands off, the problem now becomes he has an inability to either identify or attract a top of the line personnel guy. A guy with great leadership ability. A guy who sets the direction for the entire organization. While I think Bruce gets far too much hate and has done some things that get under appreciated, I don’t believe he’s that guy. He’s not the guy to build a championship roster, he’s just not. And I’ve soured on him more recently the more I’ve heard about lack of communication b/w front office and coaching staff. That’s not acceptable. 

 

We we need to find our Chris Ballard. Or Ryan Pace. A guy that can repair the relationship with the media and fans. A guy who makes decisions to put butts in seats 3-5 years from now bc they finally built a sustainable winning product, not a guy who is making short sighted decisions to hang onto his job.

We had Scot McCloughan here to build a roster and Danny gave up on him in under 2 seasons. We had Lafamina in here for the business side of things and Danny fired him after 8 months. I have absolutely zero sympathy for Snyder. He is an impatient little moron who has single handedly destroyed the prestige of this franchise. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

 

We we need to find our Chris Ballard. Or Ryan Pace. A guy that can repair the relationship with the media and fans. A guy who makes decisions to put butts in seats 3-5 years from now bc they finally built a sustainable winning product, not a guy who is making short sighted decisions to hang onto his job. 

 

Agree with this point.  Its really my thesis behind every point more or less on this thread.  The thing that mystifies me more than anything about Dan is this:

 

The point isn't rocket science.  If you are running a business, find someone who is considered at the top of their game and stay out of their way.   He's not done that with the exception of Scot.  That didn't work for various reasons so ok then try it again. 

 

The Browns hired baseball analytic types to get the best out of their roster, that failed, so then they tried something else and loaded their FO with guys with rock star reputations.    That seems to be working.  And the vibe around that team is totally different than the Redskins -- and its wild to me that Dan can't see it and understand it. 

 

Ballard had a rock star rep before he landed with the Colts.  If just some random fan like me can find out who these big rep personnel guys are by googling them, I bet Dan can figure it out too.  

 

4 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I’m no Danny fan but I actually do feel for him a little when it comes to going radio silent. Fans begged for him to get the hell out of the way and it seems to have pounded him into seclusion. I truly think ever since the Griffin debacle he’s pretty hands off, the problem now becomes he has an inability to either identify or attract a top of the line personnel guy.

 

 

Among Dans critics here, I am more likely than most to give him a break on the idea that he isn't involved -- I do think he's involved some but I don't think he's involved as much as he used to be.  However, if some of the guys with sources to the FO are correct, Dan's social life and work life tend to intersect and influence some of his decisions -- that aspect hasn't changed much from the RG3 era.  He is still supposedly impatient and emotional among other things.

 

And I got no sympathy for him as to him not figuring out the right target and how to attract a top flight personnel guy because on that front the narrative I keep hearing is his friendship with Bruce trumps all on that count.  Before that it was Vinny.  Heck, he had John Scheinder working for him and he dumped him for Cerrato.    Wow.

 

The other thing I've heard from local and national reporters that Dan doesn't like to pay top level personnel guys the way other teams do.  Laconfora in particular talked about it (post Scot's firing) saying he's talked to personnel guys around the league and said the Redskins typically don't offer what most other teams do for those positions -- sometimes they don't even offer close to what people can get elsewhere. 

 

So I really don't have much sympathy for Dan.    I genuinely think if one of us had his kind of money, we could do a much better job than he could running this team.  Like I said its not rocket science to say hey I hear a lot of good things about Chris Ballard.  Lets hire that guy, outbid others to get him if necessary and patiently let him do his thing.  Dan doesn't seem that in him or at least not yet. 

 

Heck I was listening to Joe Banner on a Sheehan podcast and he's often spinning things in a nice way especially for other team's FOs since he was a FO guy himself.  Banner said he knows Dan and Bruce personally and watched them operate quite a bit and he more or less said neither guy really gets it.  And suggested that people around the league also know that neither Bruce and Dan gets it so in turn they will likely struggle to hire top guys when they have openings these days -- because the top people will likely feel they can go to better run organizations who have a much better shot of winning. 

 

I'd love to be wrong.  And according to some who cover the team, they think they are cooking up something. And if so i am guessing its going down this week.  So hopefully, Dan shocks me and does something similar to what he did when he hired Scot.    Unlike some here, I do think its possible that Dan one day wakes up. I don't think its likely but I do think its possible.   And I do love all the efforts by many to reach out to Redskins Park and get his attention because I think our best shot for Dan to wake up is for him to get he needs to do it for his own business preservation.  I love reading the recent articles about other executives around the league mocking Dan-Bruce and or being concerned that a flagship organization is under siege and something needs to be done to fix it.   He's being assailed from multiple directions.   If he notices all of this hopefully it wakes him up. 

 

But yeah I don't have any sympathy for how he played things thus far.  Even though I do agree with the small camp of people who buy into what the beat guys say which is Dan doesn't interfere like he used to -- its still his job to hire top people to run personnel.  And competence should be much more important than who he's pals with.  Vinny in an interview said that Gregg Williams wasn't hired  as a HC years back because he, Dan, and Gregg didn't hit it off like pals watching the playoffs and they were hoping for better personal chemistry.   That stuff is crazy to me.

 

Until he hires a top football guy to run the football team, i am sticking to the dude is a very bad owner.  Because again this isn't rocket science. 

 

While I am in the small camp that Dan doesn't interfere like he used to.  I am probably leading the camp that the dude's desire for a fun social life via Redskins Park is impinging on success.  And I know it sounds odd but too much to me points to that -- the paling around with Portis and RG3 and Vinny and Bruce.  Heck an insider here even said Jay and him have become pals.  For me i am not looking for an owner that runs Redskins Park like a fraternity -- I want a guy obsessed with winning. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Every season at this time watching the playoffs and other teams being there on a normal basis it has me feeling as if I'm in a bad case of Groundhogs day....this franchise continues to change this and that, and add this and that but at the end of the Day nothing really changes.....same characters but just different names to those characters.  Kinda like if I had a old car and realized that something caused this vehicle to not run right, I paint it, I change the interior of the car...I get new tires and rims....I change the spark plugs, hoses etc....but still something just isn't causing it to run the right way. Then I realize it's the motor....well I come to realize that the motor in this team and franchise is Synder...and we know there isn't going to be a motor change at all, so even though I'm done with the Bruce Allen tenure I just don't think anyone can or will come into the organization and breath life into it....at times I wonder if Jesus himself could give this team the breathe of life it is in dire need of.  But push on I will and hold out hope that eventually for a span of several seasons this team can and will be respectable and be a normal playoff caliber team, (without Allen at the helm) of course lol

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9 hours ago, kleese said:

 

Right because this is a football team. They don’t ACTUALLY have a physical or emotional power to hold me hostage the way an abuser would in a real relationship. There aren’t kids involved, etc. This is a leisure time activity and if I leave there is absolutely zero threat of retribution from the “abuser.” Heck, they won’t even know I’m gone. 

 

There is no abuse between the Redskins, Snyder, and the fans. I’ve never been “lied to.” The product is the product. It’s plain as day to see. If you are somehow “fooled” by it then it’s shame on you as a consumer. I know exactly what I’m getting when I choose to buy a Skins jersey and sit down on Sunday to watch them. I’ve necer been tricked t felt duped. The only thing I will concede would be the waiting list and any lies that may have been told in direct relation to ticket sales. That fits the narrative a little but doesn’t change my overall stance on this. It’s a bad product. Has been for a long time. For someo reason I still enjoy consuming it. S I keep doing it. I feel I’m getting my money’s worth. I know they suck at it all around. I’m not fooled. 

So, because its a football team they dont have the ability to cheat their paying customers, and lie to them?  

 

Wow.

 

Also, for you to say a multi-billion dollar business has never lied to you makes you out to be the biggest fool of all.  Theres never been one that hasnt.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, kleese said:

For someo reason I still enjoy consuming it. S I keep doing it. I feel I’m getting my money’s worth. I know they suck at it all around. I’m not fooled. 

Sounds like sport sadomasochism to me ;)

Sadomasochism is the giving or receiving pleasure from acts involving the receipt or infliction of pain or humiliation.

Edited by FrFan

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6 hours ago, ashlynskins said:

Every season at this time watching the playoffs and other teams being there on a normal basis it has me feeling as if I'm in a bad case of Groundhogs day....this franchise continues to change this and that, and add this and that but at the end of the Day nothing really changes.....same characters but just different names to those characters.  Kinda like if I had a old car and realized that something caused this vehicle to not run right, I paint it, I change the interior of the car...I get new tires and rims....I change the spark plugs, hoses etc....but still something just isn't causing it to run the right way. Then I realize it's the motor....well I come to realize that the motor in this team and franchise is Synder

To Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen is the spark plug.

To the fans, Bruce Allen is the butt plug.

 

The fact that Allen hasn't been shown the door or even moved out of football-related operations already tells me Snyder has no clue why the team is garbage or why the fans are in such an uproar. The problem is, Bruce Allen is the ONLY person Snyder will listen to; Bruce has him convinced the fans are dumb, crazed lowlifes who have no clue, and that Bruce himself is looking out for 'his' best interest, when he's only looking out for his, because everyone knows IF Bruce Allen is shown the door, he will NEVER land another NFL GM or president-type job. He will end up back in some minor league unknown football team waving his hands to the 13 people in the stands bragging about how he built the Redskins organization.

 

2019 is going to be an abysmal year for this team, I just hope Allen doesn't go out there and further screw this team by over-paying for some washed-up player like he did with Smith. If he does, there's no hope because by the time the team overcomes that financial burden that huge asteroid will be hitting earth.

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1 minute ago, skins island connection said:

To Dan Snyder, Bruce Allen is the spark plug.

To the fans, Bruce Allen is the butt plug.

Quoting this just so people can read it again.

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13 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

We we need to find our Chris Ballard. Or Ryan Pace. A guy that can repair the relationship with the media and fans. A guy who makes decisions to put butts in seats 3-5 years from now bc they finally built a sustainable winning product, not a guy who is making short sighted decisions to hang onto his job. 

 

That's exactly what Lafemina was doing! That was the guy, and he got canned after LESS THAN A YEAR because the owner didn't like looking directly into the abyss he created and wanted to put a tarp over it again so he can go back to pretending it's not there. 

 

The fact that we've had ZERO comments from the owner or the supposed CEO (whatever Allen is) after this dreadful season is even more indicative of how putrid and cowardly these people are. I realize the irony in that comment, in that whatever comments they made would probably end up sounding like lies and would end up being mocked by everyone anyway. But I'm talking in generalities here. If you own a consumer-driven business that has one of its worst years ever, including a precipitous drop in consumer interest and a huge rise in consumer apathy, the first thing any intelligent, caring owner/CEO does is reassure the consumer base and let them know that this isn't acceptable and will be fixed. "Details to follow soon" kind of thing. Their radio silence is just another of the many examples of how pathetic they both are and how incapable they are of running anything beyond the Clown Show they've been running for years now. 

 

Absolute cowards, both of them. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

The fact that Allen hasn't been shown the door or even moved out of football-related operations already tells me Snyder has no clue why the team is garbage or why the fans are in such an uproar. The problem is, Bruce Allen is the ONLY person Snyder will listen to; Bruce has him convinced the fans are dumb, crazed lowlifes who have no clue, and that Bruce himself is looking out for 'his' best interest, when he's only looking out for his, because everyone knows IF Bruce Allen is shown the door, he will NEVER land another NFL GM or president-type job. He will end up back in some minor league unknown football team waving his hands to the 13 people in the stands bragging about how he built the Redskins organization.

 

2019 is going to be an abysmal year for this team, I just hope Allen doesn't go out there and further screw this team by over-paying for some washed-up player like he did with Smith. If he does, there's no hope because by the time the team overcomes that financial burden that huge asteroid will be hitting earth.

 

Sadly, it feels like most of this is true.  The only somewhat out I'd give Dan is maybe he realizes this now but needs Bruce to hang in there because of the stadium, regardless.  Don't know.

 

Launching another point that has nothing to do with your post.   As for the posting from some others that in their mind Dan doesn't owe us anything.  And I've seen that comment made by others too from time to time.  I agree and disagree.  To each their own.  My take is I agree in that point is literally true.  Technically Dan owns the team and can do with it what he wants.

 

But disagree in that I agree that the team in a way is a public trust even if that's not literally true.  This isn't some random business that's easy to walk away from.  Most fans are fans for life and are deeply rooted in the team going back to an era before Dan's ownership.    And we have every right to complain about how the business is run.  It's tough to compare a team to a run of the mill business.  But the best analogy I can come up with is something like Cafe De Monde in New Orleans.  Cafe De Monde isn't just a business but an institution and part of the fabric of that city.  If with new ownership it starts stinking it has impact on the whole city-tourism, etc. 

 

If I pick up a tour book about New Orleans, Cafe De Monde gets a big mention.  Ditto if you buy a book about the DMV, the Redskins get a good mention, I know because I have a book like that.  It's a big deal, its not a run of the mill business-customer relationship. 

 

Heck plenty go to town on yelp or trip advisor or whatever to explain a business for better or worse.  And most businesses in turn are concerned about said feedback and often respond to it and talk about doing it better to said customer.   The Redskins are not off limits to the same thing.  Yeah Dan can ignore all feedback and tells us all to take a hike.    But we have every reason to make our voices heard and if Dan is really a good business person, he'd listen and at least consider said fans feedback.

 

If I truly had issues with how Dan-Bruce do business (and I do) then if some random customer at a hotel can take the time to let it know what it liked or didn't like about how they run things -- then the I way I see it as a 35 year old consumer of the Redskins, who regularly spends thousands on their product every year, I can tell him what I think.  And IMO I should tell them what I think.  

 

And if the equivalent of thousands (you got over 11,000 people who signed a petition I noticed on line for Bruce to go) of people sign a petition asking for my chef to go because the food isn't good and the neighborhood restaurant which is an institution in the town isn't good anymore unlike previous ownership -- if I am a good businessman, I am listening and doing something about it.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Dissident2 said:

 

That's exactly what Lafemina was doing! That was the guy, and he got canned after LESS THAN A YEAR because the owner didn't like looking directly into the abyss he created and wanted to put a tarp over it again so he can go back to pretending it's not there. 

 

The fact that we've had ZERO comments from the owner or the supposed CEO (whatever Allen is) after this dreadful season is even more indicative of how putrid and cowardly these people are. I realize the irony in that comment, in that whatever comments they made would probably end up sounding like lies and would end up being mocked by everyone anyway. But I'm talking in generalities here. If you own a consumer-driven business that has one of its worst years ever, including a precipitous drop in consumer interest and a huge rise in consumer apathy, the first thing any intelligent, caring owner/CEO does is reassure the consumer base and let them know that this isn't acceptable and will be fixed. "Details to follow soon" kind of thing. Their radio silence is just another of the many examples of how pathetic they both are and how incapable they are of running anything beyond the Clown Show they've been running for years now. 

 

Absolute cowards, both of them. 

 

 

 

 

Agree.   Dan has always come off uncomfortable in public speaking but he's really gone deep into a hole on that front.   According to beat guys, they sense that Bruce is rattled by his public gaffes in his rare public appearances and has been given a hard time about them behind the scenes so he now just parades Doug Williams to do it for him.

 

People compare Dan Snyder some to Steinbrenner and Jerry Jones but at least both of those guys had-have the gonads to face the public-media. 

 

Comes off like Dan-Bruce would rather ruin the team behind the scenes and never face the music from fans about it.   And it makes it come off even more infuriating to fans.  Heck at least Bruce should speak.   

 

Bruce should just take some toastmaster classes or maybe hire a personal media coach who can teach him how to avoid saying stupid things publicly.   But if that dude is going to stay here if he keeps going full Greta Garbo, he's going to get pounded even more.  It makes the whole operation seem even more out of touch and slimy. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Dan needs to sell the team. 

 

The NFL should pressure him to do so for the good of the league. 

 

No jurisdiction in the DMV should give an inch to Snyder in order to build a stadium. He has not proven himself a worthy investment risk.

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12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Among Dans critics here, I am more likely than most to give him a break on the idea that he isn't involved -- I do think he's involved some but I don't think he's involved as much as he used to be.  However, if some of the guys with sources to the FO are correct, Dan's social life and work life tend to intersect and influence some of his decisions -- that aspect hasn't changed much from the RG3 era.  He is still supposedly impatient and emotional among other things.

 

And I got no sympathy for him as to him not figuring out the right target and how to attract a top flight personnel guy because on that front the narrative I keep hearing is his friendship with Bruce trumps all on that count.  Before that it was Vinny.  Heck, he had John Scheinder working for him and he dumped him for Cerrato.    Wow.

 

The other thing I've heard from local and national reporters that Dan doesn't like to pay top level personnel guys the way other teams do.  Laconfora in particular talked about it (post Scot's firing) saying he's talked to personnel guys around the league and said the Redskins typically don't offer what most other teams do for those positions -- sometimes they don't even offer close to what people can get elsewhere. 

 

So I really don't have much sympathy for Dan.    I genuinely think if one of us had his kind of money, we could do a much better job than he could running this team.  Like I said its not rocket science to say hey I hear a lot of good things about Chris Ballard.  Lets hire that guy, outbid others to get him if necessary and patiently let him do his thing.  Dan doesn't seem that in him or at least not yet. 

 

Heck I was listening to Joe Banner on a Sheehan podcast and he's often spinning things in a nice way especially for other team's FOs since he was a FO guy himself.  Banner said he knows Dan and Bruce personally and watched them operate quite a bit and he more or less said neither guy really gets it.  And suggested that people around the league also know that neither Bruce and Dan gets it so in turn they will likely struggle to hire top guys when they have openings these days -- because the top people will likely feel they can go to better run organizations who have a much better shot of winning. 

 

I'd love to be wrong.  And according to some who cover the team, they think they are cooking up something. And if so i am guessing its going down this week.  So hopefully, Dan shocks me and does something similar to what he did when he hired Scot.    Unlike some here, I do think its possible that Dan one day wakes up. I don't think its likely but I do think its possible.   And I do love all the efforts by many to reach out to Redskins Park and get his attention because I think our best shot for Dan to wake up is for him to get he needs to do it for his own business preservation.  I love reading the recent articles about other executives around the league mocking Dan-Bruce and or being concerned that a flagship organization is under siege and something needs to be done to fix it.   He's being assailed from multiple directions.   If he notices all of this hopefully it wakes him up. 

 

But yeah I don't have any sympathy for how he played things thus far.  Even though I do agree with the small camp of people who buy into what the beat guys say which is Dan doesn't interfere like he used to -- its still his job to hire top people to run personnel.  And competence should be much more important than who he's pals with.  Vinny in an interview said that Gregg Williams wasn't hired  as a HC years back because he, Dan, and Gregg didn't hit it off like pals watching the playoffs and they were hoping for better personal chemistry.   That stuff is crazy to me.

 

Until he hires a top football guy to run the football team, i am sticking to the dude is a very bad owner.  Because again this isn't rocket science. 

 

While I am in the small camp that Dan doesn't interfere like he used to.  I am probably leading the camp that the dude's desire for a fun social life via Redskins Park is impinging on success.  And I know it sounds odd but too much to me points to that -- the paling around with Portis and RG3 and Vinny and Bruce.  Heck an insider here even said Jay and him have become pals.  For me i am not looking for an owner that runs Redskins Park like a fraternity -- I want a guy obsessed with winning. 

IDK if it just came off this way but it seems like you are arguing against something? I literally said he has an inability to identify or attract a top personnel guy to run the show and then you just listed off a bunch of reasons you don't have sympathy for him in that department.

 

The only thing I find ironic is all the people hammering Dan for not speaking out in public when 10 years ago all you heard was I don't even want to see Dan's face, just pay the bills. So yeah, he probably doesn't feel comfortable getting up there and speaking in front of a bunch of people that were begging him to disappear.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Peregrine said:

So, because its a football team they dont have the ability to cheat their paying customers, and lie to them?  

 

Wow.

 

Also, for you to say a multi-billion dollar business has never lied to you makes you out to be the biggest fool of all.  Theres never been one that hasnt.

You. Just. Don't. Get. It.

 

There is nothing forcing you to sink your money into the team. The results are clear as day, the way they have functioned for 20+ years is as well. No one is saying it's good enough, but to equate it to a domestic abuse situation where the abuser has emotional control over whether you walk away or not is so incredibly wrong that you may want to consider stepping away for a bit.

Edited by HardcoreZorn

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

IDK if it just came off this way but it seems like you are arguing against something? I literally said he has an inability to identify or attract a top personnel guy to run the show and then you just listed off a bunch of reasons you don't have sympathy for him in that department.

 

The only thing I find ironic is all the people hammering Dan for not speaking out in public when 10 years ago all you heard was I don't even want to see Dan's face, just pay the bills. So yeah, he probably doesn't feel comfortable getting up there and speaking in front of a bunch of people that were begging him to disappear.

 

You mentioned you had sympathy for Dan because he doesn't interfere as much.   That's a theory, we don't know that for sure.  And that's coming from someone like me who actually somewhat believes it (unlike some others who don't) but I don't believe it to the extent that he doesn't interfere at all.  So i was explaining why I have zero sympathy for Dan because in my view he brings plenty of other issues regardless of how much he interferes or not.  The culture of an organization is set by the owner.  So if this team comes off like a clown show -- Dan is always the lead clown since its his show. I don't have one whit of sympathy actually for him.  So yeah no that point wasn't directed at you specifically but directed at the "sympathy" point.

 

As for people not wanting Dan to interfere.  That doesn't mean never talk.  That would be ridiculous.   Just about every owner talks.   and its not hard to see that the reason he doesn't talk has nothing to do with him to try to come off like he doesn't interfere but because as most say he's socially uncomfortable and doesn't like to do public speaking.  And with fans really hot right now about what's going on -- he doesn't want to face the music.  Ditto Bruce by the way accept for the socially uncomfortable part.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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