The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

I actually think Dan might be right about that. At least in the sense that I don’t think firing Bruce is gonna put butts in the seats. They could fire Bruce today, have him leave the building, promote Smith or whoever and I don’t think it would make one iota of a difference in ticket sales or crowd presence to start next year. 

 

I’m not defending Bruce here. I want him gone too, but I don’t think in the short term it will have any impact on how gameday looks. Long term? Yeah hopefully it would be a step in right direction. 

 

 

 

Depends on who they hire if anyone to replace him.   Firing Bruce would give him the biggest PR hit for the moment.  but to bring fans in, he'd need to hire a big rep personnel type IMO.    When Dan hired Scot, he got big PR buzz from it.  People didn't know Scot but loved the novelty of having a personnel guru at least reputation wise in the building.

 

[goskins10]

42 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

I actually think Dan might be right about that. At least in the sense that I don’t think firing Bruce is gonna put butts in the seats. They could fire Bruce today, have him leave the building, promote Smith or whoever and I don’t think it would make one iota of a difference in ticket sales or crowd presence to start next year. It will placate an angry mob, but for those that have bailed on the team I seriously doubt that is enough to bring them back. It would calm social media for a few months, sure. But if we play Dallas or Philly or whoever at FedEx week 1 I’ll be expecting a half full stadium and/or a takeover regardless of whether Bruce is there or not. It would be different if the team is 8-2 playing a home game next year— then you’d see a change— again, whether Bruce is there or not. 

 

I’m not defending Bruce here. I want him gone too, but I don’t think in the short term it will have any impact on how gameday looks. Long term? Yeah hopefully it would be a step in right direction. 

 

 

 

But isn't that the problem with Dan and how he runs the team overall? It's always with the short term not the long term in mind. it took 20 yrs for him to run enough fans away to start making a real difference in revenue. It will not be fixed by any one move. It will take years of forward progress to erase the idiocy of the last 20 yrs. 

 

And back to your last statement, Dan just cannot play the long game. Too impatient and does not understand that's how great franchises are always competitive. He wants to win this season. People can say what they want about Scot, the one thing he did do was bring a long term approach and philosophy. We need that type of thinking but it's completely against how dan thinks so it's a non-starter. 

[kleese]

13 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

But isn't that the problem with Dan and how he runs the team overall? It's always with the short term not the long term in mind. it took 20 yrs for him to run enough fans away to start making a real difference in revenue. It will not be fixed by any one move. It will take years of forward progress to erase the idiocy of the last 20 yrs. 

 

And back to your last statement, Dan just cannot play the long game. Too impatient and does not understand that's how great franchises are always competitive. He wants to win this season. People can say what they want about Scot, the one thing he did do was bring a long term approach and philosophy. We need that type of thinking but it's completely against how dan thinks so it's a non-starter. 

 

See I think the current narrative is that Dan is being TOO patient... or at least too stubborn.... or at least too tone deaf. He has really struck with the entire program here... not just Bruce, but Jay, Smith, Schaffer, etc have all been on board for quite awhile now and he hasn’t made any changes despite middling/disappointing results. 

 

It is as if Dan has over-corrected. “Oh you think I’m impulsive and impatient??? Well, watch THIS!” 

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

See I think the current narrative is that Dan is being TOO patient... or at least too stubborn.... or at least too tone deaf. He has really struck with the entire program here... not just Bruce, but Jay, Smith, Schaffer, etc have all been on board for quite awhile now and he hasn’t made any changes despite middling/disappointing results. 

 

It is as if Dan has over-corrected. “Oh you think I’m impulsive and impatient??? Well, watch THIS!” 

 

The two can both be true. I can see him trying to stay patient with people for outside appearances, but behind the scenes pushing everyone to win now forcing them into poor decisions. Of course I have no idea. Just a gut feeling from what I see. 

 

Either way, it's a disaster for us as fans. 

[kleese]

26 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

The two can both be true. I can see him trying to stay patient with people for outside appearances, but behind the scenes pushing everyone to win now forcing them into poor decisions. Of course I have no idea. Just a gut feeling from what I see. 

 

Either way, it's a disaster for us as fans. 

 

I have no clue either of

course but reading the tea leaves and using logic I actually would guess that Dan is NOT calling any shots. I think he truly and honestly gave the keys to Bruce— similar to what he did with Gibbs. I think he’s allowed Bruce to make all the decisions. I say that because most of our decisions under Bruce have run counter to the way Dan operated when he was calling more shots. Dan’s failing here of course is entrusting someone that is failing the organization and not realizing the depth of what is going on.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, kleese said:

 

I have no clue either of

course but reading the tea leaves and using logic I actually would guess that Dan is NOT calling any shots. I think he truly and honestly gave the keys to Bruce— similar to what he did with Gibbs. I think he’s allowed Bruce to make all the decisions. I say that because most of our decisions under Bruce have run counter to the way Dan operated when he was calling more shots. Dan’s failing here of course is entrusting someone that is failing the organization and not realizing the depth of what is going on.

 

Maybe. It's certainly possible. I just find it hard to believe he has been able to be that hands off. But I can see arguments for both.  

 

Either way, eiher he or bruce or both of them certainly seem to have created a toxic environment to work in. The arrogance of them both is nauseating. 

 

 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Another day goes by and numb nut is still in charge.   

[skins island connection]

3 hours ago, kleese said:

 

I actually think Dan might be right about that. At least in the sense that I don’t think firing Bruce is gonna put butts in the seats. They could fire Bruce today, have him leave the building, promote Smith or whoever and I don’t think it would make one iota of a difference in ticket sales or crowd presence to start next year. It will placate an angry mob, but for those that have bailed on the team I seriously doubt that is enough to bring them back. It would calm social media for a few months, sure. But if we play Dallas or Philly or whoever at FedEx week 1 I’ll be expecting a half full stadium and/or a takeover regardless of whether Bruce is there or not. It would be different if the team is 8-2 playing a home game next year— then you’d see a change— again, whether Bruce is there or not. 

 

I’m not defending Bruce here. I want him gone too, but I don’t think in the short term it will have any impact on how gameday looks. Long term? Yeah hopefully it would be a step in right direction. 

 

 

 

 Well, personally, removing Bruce would be a step; no, a giant leap forward, in a positive way as far as fans go. This is the core of the problem, and it would show he's trying to do whats best for the team, even if its just removing Allen. We all know there are other issues that need to be seriously evaluated, but Bruce Allen's removal from this organization should be the priority.

 

Of course, if he fires Bruce then hires some friend who is unqualified or a failure everywhere this person had been, it will only turn the fans even more bitter and show he is totally out of touch with reality. He probably is at this point now. But if he's smart, he will hire a firm to find the best person to do the job.

Winning will fill the seats, that's Snyder's bottom line. Its the fans' bottom line.

[Skinsinparadise]

if this is true am gathering things are happening behind the scenes quietly. If Manusky is being let go as rumored to be, I wonder, considering them talking to assistant defensive coaches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Remember when it didn’t matter what corners got let go, Ashburn is a cornerback factory thanks to Torrian Gray.

 

That was a popular take among the optimists.

 

Mmmmhmmm.

[OVCChairman]

what a complete cluster... I wonder if Torrian has been notified or if he's reading it now. 

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Remember when it didn’t matter what corners got let go, Ashburn is a cornerback factory thanks to Torrian Gray.

 

That was a popular take among the optimists.

 

Mmmmhmmm.

 

This is what kills me.... he's one of the better assistants we have, yet he's the one that gets let go?   If we fire Manusky, Torrian Gray would have been one of the ones I wanted to carry over because of how well THAT unit, with THAT talent has produced. 

[FrFan]

Another former Redskins coach

While we keep on applying the Dilbert principle

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

There is still some smoke that Manusky might be let go.  So they are trying to hire new coordinators assistants for him in advance if so?  Isn't that a turnoff for a new hire?  That's the same game they played after Gibbs retired they hired the assistants before the HC -- surprise, surprise it made that job less attractive and they needed to elevate one of those assistants to the top job.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

If you weren’t convinced that the top brass lives in their own luxurious bubble, how about now?

 

Another mediocre season riddled with injuries, tens of millions of wasted cap dollars to boot, almost ten days into our offseason, and only marketing execs and the DB coach have been fired.  You can’t make this stuff up.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If you weren’t convinced that the top brass lives in their own luxurious bubble, how about now?

 

Another mediocre season riddled with injuries, tens of millions of wasted cap dollars to boot, and almost ten days into our offseason, and only marketing execs and the DB coach have been fired.  You can’t make this stuff up.

 

Yeah the bubble narrative I keep hearing from just about everyone who covers this team.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NewCliche21]

Seriously, Gray gone?  I feel like the directions the fans are giving the organization are literally being mirrored.

 

"Turn left.  No no no, not my left, YOUR left.  Oh Jesus Christ, WHY WOULD YOU DRIVE INTO A TREE?!?!?!"

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah the bubble narrative I keep hearing from just about everyone who covers this team.  

 

 

 

 

The Redskins needed a meeting to to “touch base”. 🤣

 

I’ll venture a guess that Jay was interested and Todd indicates he’s more interested in joining Arians if and when he gets a HC gig.  I’ll give credit that at least they haven’t fired Manuksy before they found out everyone worthwhile would rather be elsewhere.

[Skinsinparadise]

The touching base with Bowles I bet is about money.  Dan-Bruce have become mostly cheap from what I hear about new hires so maybe its can we get Bowles cheap and if not hey let the dude go to Tampa and work for Arians.  and I get going to Tampa might be more attractive to him anyway but these days the Redskins do get outbid for coaches.  Ironically thats supposedly how they lost one of their defensive assistants to the Rams and why Torian had to be hired years back in the first place. 

[NewCliche21]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The touching base with Bowles I bet is about money.  Dan-Bruce have become mostly cheap from what I hear about new hires so maybe its can we get Bowles cheap and if not hey let the dude go to Tampa and work for Arians.  and I get going to Tampa might be more attractive to him anyway but these days the Redskins do get outbid for coaches.  Ironically thats supposedly how they lost one of their defensive assistants to the Rams and why Torian had to be hired years back in the first place. 

 

Which is, again, so backwards.  If your team sucks, then you compensate financially.  If you're a good/storied/top-notch organization, then you don't have to wave as many dollars to get people to sign on.

 

It's the ugly chick from high school demanding that only the hottest guys ask her out.  And I outright refused.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Which is, again, so backwards.  If your team sucks, then you compensate financially.  If you're a good/storied/top-notch organization, then you don't have to wave as many dollars to get people to sign on.

 

It's the ugly chick from high school demanding that only the hottest guys ask her out.  And I outright refused.

 

Agree.  The weird thing of the new Bruce-Dan era is they've become cheap.  Not only is Redskins Park supposedly not a hot environment to work in but they pay less than just about everyone else these days.    JLC talked about this back when they pretended to be looking at new personnel people when they let Scot go -- the rap is Redskins Park isnt a great place to work in and they also pay less than just about everywhere else.

 

I got no way to know for sure but Bruce (if it were him) talking parameters with Todd Bowles was likely about what are you asking for.  And if Bowles wants good money, doubt he gets offered it.  Maybe I will be surprised.    Will see. 

 

If you guys recall years back they made Gregg Williams one of the highest or maybe even the highest paid assistants at the time and there was some rumblings that the NFL was annoyed that the Redskins are going to reset the market for assistants.  Under Bruce they have become the cheapskates a lot of times on this front.  Rumor was a big part of wanting to keep Haslett when Jay arrived was to save money on not having to fire him and the assistants. 

[HardcoreZorn]

37 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Remember when it didn’t matter what corners got let go, Ashburn is a cornerback factory thanks to Torrian Gray.

 

That was a popular take among the optimists.

 

Mmmmhmmm.

Why do you feel the need to parade around saying things like this? Does it help make you feel better about how wrong you were about the 28M man in Minnesota?

 

Anywho, I was a fan of Gray. Bummed to see him go and I'm sure he will latch on somewhere else and have success. To me this indicates a pretty big shakeup on the defensive side of the ball coming, Manusky included. Really hope Tomsula doesn't get away.

[Skinsinparadise]

Will see how good some of the beat guys are source wise.

 

Hoffman thought some assistant turnover would start this week, early this week.  correct

 

Seems like most beat guys think Manusky probably goes but its not a slam dunk

 

Callahan likely gone but not a slam dunk

 

Tomsula 50-50

 

OConnell maybe elevated to O coordinator

[bird_1972]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Will see how good some of the beat guys are source wise.

 

Hoffman thought some assistant turnover would start this week, early this week.  correct

 

Seems like most beat guys think Manusky probably goes but its not a slam dunk

 

Callahan likely gone but not a slam dunk

 

Tomsula 50-50

 

OConnell maybe elevated to O coordinator

 

This looks like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

18 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Why do you feel the need to parade around saying things like this? Does it help make you feel better about how wrong you were about the 28M man in Minnesota?

 

Anywho, I was a fan of Gray. Bummed to see him go and I'm sure he will latch on somewhere else and have success. To me this indicates a pretty big shakeup on the defensive side of the ball coming, Manusky included. Really hope Tomsula doesn't get away.

Did your ears itch or something, summoning you here to defend your honor?  Don’t flatter yourself, there were more than a few brimming with optimism over the offseason per usual, touting the exact same thing you were.  

 

I actually think it’s ridiculous that Gray was served walking papers because he was asked like many in Washington, to turn poop into ice cream...quickly.

 

The main point was that players will always reign supreme over coaching and letting folks go and expecting a coach to make everyone awesome is what losers do.