Stay The Course

[Warhead36]

Yesterday was...frustrating to say the least. I had to really take time to process it. I know people want blood, fire people, get rid of Gruden and Cousins, etc. but after sleeping on it and thinking about it, I think our best plan is to stay the course.

 

Here's the thing: we're not a bad football team. In fact, I think we're actually a pretty good football team that has just been hit hard with injuries, a rough schedule, and some bad luck. Our 6 losses have been to the Eagles twice, Saints, Vikings, Chiefs, and Cowboys. The first three of those I mentioned are currently top 5 teams in football. The Chiefs at the time were, and they're still very good(in their house). The Cowboys we lost to them when they were fully healthy and had Zeke while we were just hitting our absolute bottom of the barrel in terms of injuries. Imagine if, instead of playing the Eagles twice, we played the Giants twice. We're probably 6-4.

 

We have quality wins on the road vs. the Rams and Seahawks. We crushed the Raiders who were at the time flying high. The 49er game, okay that was a weird one, but we did still win and were by far the better team for most of it. In fact, in our losses to the Chiefs and Saints you could argue we were the better team for most of it. We haven't really been crushed in any game. The two Eagle games we lost by double digits but the first one was a one score game until the very end. The second one was close until Wentz just went God Mode on us in the 2nd half. Even then, no shame in losing to the best team in the league twice. I mean, look at what they did to the Cowboys yesterday. Our games against them were never that bad.

 

Everyone wants to kill Gruden for some of the moves yesterday, and I agree he did make some mistakes, but with that said, we're fielding a MASH unit on both sides of the ball and are still competing against the best teams in the league. We aren't losing to the likes of the Browns and Colts. Everyone wants to kill Cousins for the very end of the game, but for the second week in a row against a really good defense we've put up 30+ points. When your QB stakes you a 15 point lead with 5 minutes left, its up to everyone else to close it out. One guy only does so much.

 

We need to make more moves of course, but I think we're closer to being good than being bad. In a way all this bad luck this year is a good thing because it most likely means next year we'll be lucky and win these close games. Luck tends to fluctuate like that. A good example is the Panthers. In 2014 they lost a bunch of close games and went 8-8. In 2015 they won those games and went 15-1. Then last year their luck turned around and they went 7-9 but are now back as a playoff team. The Cowboys have alternated good season and bad season largely based on health.

 

I see us finishing somewhere around 8-8, but we'll be looked at as one of the good 8-8 teams with our arrow pointing up, assuming we keep Gruden and Cousins. People are whining and crying like we're the Browns, but we're not. Its just been one of those seasons but I think in the long run if we stay the course we'll look at it as kind of a year to base any future success off of.

[DM72]

I've said this before. Under Gruden, expect no better than 9-7. 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, DM72 said:

I've said this before. Under Gruden, expect no better than 9-7. 

Maybe.

 

But Garrett went 8-8 three years in a row with the Cowboys before going 12-4/13-3 two out of three years(the outlier year being when Romo got hurt).

 

Tomlin went 8-8 two years in a row in 2012 and 2013, missing the playoffs, before bouncing back to win double digit games three years(going to be four years)in a row.

 

Wanna know a super schizo head coach? Sean Payton. 10-6 his first year, then back to back years 7-9 and 8-8. Then they go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl and go 11-5, 13-3, and 11-5. After that? THREE straight 7-9 seasons before returning this year to dominance.

 

I don't think the book has been written fully on Gruden just yet. He might be another Norv Turner, but I think its in our best interest to see what he can do with more improved personnel on defense, better health, and just a tad bit more good fortune.

[RonBurgandy]

Gruden just signed an extension through 2020, he'll be given at least one more year, Cousins will be signed north of 25 mil a year, and we'll put all of our eggs in one basket going into next year. Hail

[LaxBuddy21]

I agree. Keep moving forward. Keep adding pieces. If we can do that, we will be competitive for the next 5 years at least. The worst thing we could do is hit reset. We are a highly competitive team this year even through all the injuries and our schedule. If we were healthy, I don't think we are competing for a super bowl yet but I think we could be competing for a spot in championship game. We are too impulsive as a fan base and as an organization. Even now, I could see this team winning out. Given the slim margin for error, it's not likely but I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen. Our schedule is night and day from here on out compared to our first 9. 

[OVCChairman]

17 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Maybe.

 

But Garrett went 8-8 three years in a row with the Cowboys before going 12-4/13-3 two out of three years(the outlier year being when Romo got hurt).

 

Tomlin went 8-8 two years in a row in 2012 and 2013, missing the playoffs, before bouncing back to win double digit games three years(going to be four years)in a row.

 

Wanna know a super schizo head coach? Sean Payton. 10-6 his first year, then back to back years 7-9 and 8-8. Then they go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl and go 11-5, 13-3, and 11-5. After that? THREE straight 7-9 seasons before returning this year to dominance.

 

I don't think the book has been written fully on Gruden just yet. He might be another Norv Turner, but I think its in our best interest to see what he can do with more improved personnel on defense, better health, and just a tad bit more good fortune.

I don't want to start over any more than the next person, but Gruden, in 4 seasons, has not proven to me he can be a head coach in crunch time.  The guy is borderline BRILLIANT in his offensive scheme.  He uses his weapons, he draws up great plays, and he seems to get the best out of his players... My frustration with him is it seems like the lights shine too bright for him.  Crunch time evades him.  Playcalling in times of need tend to be less then stellar.  He needs to get better at this, not only to be successful here, but to be a successful HC anywhere. 

 

Yesterday i wanted him fired... today I'm more tepid on that.  He's a good offensive mind, and if he goes, so does Kirk.  The ONLY thing keeping Kirk here is scheme continuity and a fair money offer.  Take away one and the other has to get bigger.  

[TheCoach22]

37 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Maybe.

 

But Garrett went 8-8 three years in a row with the Cowboys before going 12-4/13-3 two out of three years(the outlier year being when Romo got hurt).

 

Tomlin went 8-8 two years in a row in 2012 and 2013, missing the playoffs, before bouncing back to win double digit games three years(going to be four years)in a row.

 

Wanna know a super schizo head coach? Sean Payton. 10-6 his first year, then back to back years 7-9 and 8-8. Then they go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl and go 11-5, 13-3, and 11-5. After that? THREE straight 7-9 seasons before returning this year to dominance.

 

I don't think the book has been written fully on Gruden just yet. He might be another Norv Turner, but I think its in our best interest to see what he can do with more improved personnel on defense, better health, and just a tad bit more good fortune.

Jason Garret does nothing but clap his hands, literally nothing. He is the HC in name only and he allows Jeruh to call all shots.

 

Tomlin and Payton won early in their careers, giving them the benefit of the doubt. Their teams have their coaches personalities. Unfortunately we have Jay's aww shucks persona and we look like a short, lumpy arena league QB too often.

 

Like @DM72, 9-7 is the ceiling for Gruden. Like his quarterbacking, his coaching has limits.

[sebestian]

I agree with stability and continuity. My issue would be the people in charge creating that stability. 

 

An example. The Toronto Maple Leafs have not been to the Stanley Cup Finals since last winning it in 1967. By my count that is 50 years. Half a century. 

 

I still watched and and was wondering who they might draft and so on. However I could never believe that they were actually serious about eventually being in a position to at least not be laughed at as a team and organization. Then something happened. Brendan Shanahan became the president of the team and he hired one of the best General managers and he hired one of if not the best head coach in the game and they committed to a plan and a way of doing Things that everyone shares. 

 

Now, if they make a decision or do not act on something that most of the fans and media want them to do, I defer judgement and have confidence to stay the course because of their track record. 

 

I have confidence in the decision makers and the overall goals of the organization. 

 

Did they get lucky that the first overall pick was Auston Mattthews, yes.  

 

Theyre overall strategy as an as an organization starts from the top and filters trough the whole organization. 

Again I want to be patient, I want to stay the course and what a really want is for the Redskins to be seen as they were in the eighties as an organization that other teams wanted to be like. 

 

Sorry I did not want to hijack the thread I was simply trying to look for a comparible to provide some context to my post. 

 

I am am not confident in Snyder, Allen, Williams and Gruden in their respective roles that they can be successful. 

 

I will never cheer for another team, I will always be a Redskins fan, and I hope that I am wrong. 

 

This is is not just a bringing in this player problem. It’s bigger then that, in my humble opinion. 

 

Signed,

 

Frustrated and Sad

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, sebestian said:

 

I am am not confident in Snyder, Allen, Williams and Gruden in their respective roles that they can be successful. 

 

I will never cheer for another team, I will always be a Redskins fan, and I hope that I am wrong. 

 

This is is not just a bringing in this player problem. It’s bigger then that, in my humble opinion. 

 

Signed,

 

Frustrated and Sad

I'll agree with you on Snyder and Allen. Williams...remains to be seen. Not super confident but you never know.

[NoCalMike]

I have a hunch that if Parcells had retired a season or two sooner and Jerruh promoted Sean Payton to HC, Dallas might have won a couple championships during those years where they were legitimately very good.  Garrett is mediocre but he is someone who will never interfere or butt heads with Jerruh being Jerruh.

 

I actually think this 2017 team is better than 2015 or 2016, They have a better roster than either of those teams did.  Their schedule has been brutal. At 4-6 the playoffs are likely out of the picture, however...............................the final 6 games are very winnable. They should be favored in all of them except maybe @Dallas.  I am not saying this for the purpose of "we can go on another win streak and get into playoffs" Nope, I am saying this because at 4-6, and the nature of the way they lost their last two games, the final run of games are going to be very telling about where this team stands as a cohesive unit. Where they stand when it comes to the coaching staff, the scheme, the plan, the "course."    Is this team going to pull a NYG and give up, or are they going to continue to fight and show they believe in the plan.  Will they fold or will they show the rest of the NFL that while this season won't be extending into January, they ain't going nowhere yet and will be back with a vengeance in 2017?

 

The OP says "Stay the Course?" Time to find out if the players agree.

[zoony]

Gruden inherited a Team with no first rounf draft pick on the roster from 2012 to 2015.

 

Weve had no big spending sprees.  Its Gruden and Cousins, only two things keeping the squad competitive.  We should have had three straigh 4 win seasons, but instead here we are.

 

Need to lock up Cousins, make some bigger free agent signings than we have, and bring in a solid draft class.  This could be a 10 win Team if that happens and they stay healthy

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, zoony said:

Gruden inherited a Team with no first rounf draft pick on the roster from 2012 to 2015.

 

Weve had no big spending sprees.  Its Gruden and Cousins, only two things keeping the squad competitive.  We should have had three straigh 4 win seasons, but instead here we are.

 

Need to lock up Cousins, make some bigger free agent signings than we have, and bring in a solid draft class.  This could be a 10 win Team if that happens and they stay healthy

More good points. We were already significantly behind the talent curve, but we basically threw three first round picks in the trash from 2012-2014. Even then Gruden has gotten us playing competitive ball.

[JSSkinz]

I think I referred to Gruden as "yard sale material" after yesterdays game, it was one of the most frustrating loses I can remember.

 

The more I think about how competitive this team has been with all the injuries and missing the draft picks from 2012 - 2014 it seems like Jay may be doing a better job than he gets credit for.

 

Would anyone do much more with these injuries and this schedule?

 

Not sure they would.

 

[OVCChairman]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

More good points. We were already significantly behind the talent curve, but we basically threw three first round picks in the trash from 2012-2014. Even then Gruden has gotten us playing competitive ball.

This is the part that kills me.. dude knows football and scheme... My worry is just being a 'leader of men.'  It's the same concern I have with Kirk.. in crunch time.. we seem to crumble.  I will give credit where it is do like the game vs Seattle, but we still put the ball in their hands with a chance to win the game.. McGee making a shoestring tackle is the only reason they didnt tie that game. 

[TheGreek1973]

As bad as this front office has been, as bad as we looked at times, especially on D going on for years now, as bad as we have blown our draft pickets (giving up a King's ransom for a guy that is now out of the league), if we don't sign Cousins to a long term contract and fire Gruden we will be the Browns of the NFC for years and years.

 

We keep these two we have a very good chance of being very good.  We saw how much better we are with Allen and Ionnidis on the DL when healthy.  We saw how this offense put up consecutive 30 pointers against top 5 Ds.  We can only imagine how good Cousins can be when Doctson develops more and we get another good FA receiver opposite him and maybe Reed has one freaking healthy year.

 

Stay the course or suffer for many years, that is how I see it.

[Bang]

Good post, OP. i fully agree.. this team is close, but not quite there yet.

i don't think there's TOO many pieces to add.. more like we need some pieces to stay healthy, and we need to upgrade the WR position significantly. 

We have good depth in man y places, it just doesn't look like it because we've had to use SO much of it that the depth players ended up getting hurt.

It's been a long time since i've seen a team get hit with injuries like this, and literally, 3 weeks ago with 21 players on the list,, i've never seen that.

You can only adapt to so much adversity before it ends up severely affecting performance.

 

~Bang

 

[WelshSkinsFan]

52 minutes ago, TheCoach22 said:

Jason Garret does nothing but clap his hands, literally nothing. He is the HC in name only and he allows Jeruh to call all shots.

 

Tomlin and Payton won early in their careers, giving them the benefit of the doubt. Their teams have their coaches personalities. Unfortunately we have Jay's aww shucks persona and we look like a short, lumpy arena league QB too often.

 

Like @DM72, 9-7 is the ceiling for Gruden. Like his quarterbacking, his coaching has limits.

 

Tomlin inherited a Super Bowl team and Payton had the good fortune to have Brees fall in his lap in what was at the time a very weak division, comparisons to Jay are pointless.  Gruden may not be going to Canton but he is a good coach and has shown signs of growth in each of his seasons here, as noted above we have no realistic chance of keeping Cousins if we ditch Jay and so a coaching change at this point essentially means a full reset and I highly doubt that goes well for us.  I watched the Darnold/Rosen showdown and the main takeaway is that nobody is finding a long term answer at QB in the draft next year and I don't see any potential Free Agent QBs better than who we have.

 

The last 3 seasons have been a huge tease I know but Gruden didn't drop the ball in the end zone as time expired in Kansas and Gruden didn't throw a bull**** IG call when we were in position to kick the winner yesterday.  We could be 6-4 after a murderers row of a schedule with some lay ups ahead and all the while we have been playing with a M.A.S.H. unit on both sides of the ball.  Law of averages says we won't have the same luck with injuries next year and almost certainly we will get an easier schedule, if we keep this core together than I can definitely see an 11 or 12 win season and a team that can legitimately make a run in the postseason.  If we start over now then wake me up in 5 years because it is going to be at least that long before we get back above .500. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

After calming down, i think this is presently a 10 win team that’s had a ridiculous schedule and awful luck. I think the offense is decent and i think the defense is a lot better than the numbers bear out 

 

however, you cannot count on things just keep ascending next year because this is such a fluctuating type of league 

[Spaceman Spiff]

This is a mediocre football team that has, at times, looked really good.  

 

Injuries certainly play a part.  But the defense still lacks, which is a shame because at times they look fantastic..  With a middle of the pack defense this team would be 6-4, perhaps 7-3.  

 

 

[NoCalMike]

I sort of feel like this team is being built more in an old-school approach now (well at least when Scott became GM) where they are getting better in stages.  Right now the 'Skins are in 8-8/9-7 stage, where they are good but not good enough to overcome mental blunders or errors in games. This fanbase is thirsty for a huge jump when the each season begins.  In the modern NFL there is a lot of those "sexy" Cinderella stories where teams go from 6-10 to 11+ wins in one offseason, but often those teams fizzle quickly because they aren't built to last and those stand alone successful seasons were smokescreens.  Even during Gibbs 2.0 the team was so inconsistent from year to year, with basically the same personnel.

 

Right now what is interesting is despite roster turnover and injuries, the team has not dropped off in any major way. They are, for the most part, maintaining a baseline unlike say a team like the NYG who lost a few players and suddenly the bottom falls out quickly. 

 

The instant gratification of .500 to Superbowl contender might not be there, but the growth and improvement is there and it will hopefully equal lasting power once the team is actually a contender.

[LetThePointsSoar]

I agree. 

 

I'm still sad and frustrated. 

 

But I agree. 

[Dissident2]

These losses - especially yesterday's - have been devastating (in football terms). There's no doubt about it, and some of the decisions by the coach and QB contributed to those losses. But that coach and QB also gave us a chance to even be in that game. I think this is definitely a case where you're going to have to take the good with the bad, and the good still outweighs the bad in my eyes. 

 

It's easy to get caught up in the soul-crushing misery (again, in football terms - this ain't real life disaster) of that loss and even the Vikings defeat, but it's also easy to overlook the, quite frankly, amazing accomplishments just to be competitive in some of these games. And that also reflects on coaching. Yes, the loss sucked ass yesterday, but I believe we put up more points on the Saints than any team has all season, and the same I think is true of the Vikings the week prior. Gruden is a good offensive mind. Very good. Kirk is an excellent QB. Both have flaws, and those flaws hurt us yesterday, but not nearly as badly as the complete and utter defensive breakdown, a lot of which again comes back to this insane rush of injuries. I mean ... DHall out there after not practicing all week is just a recipe for utter disaster. 

 

The team has a very good, effective scheme on offense. They play hard and they don't quit. They clearly need more and better pieces to the puzzle, but it's absolutely astonishing that a team with these receivers and such a bad running game overall has been able to accomplish this much on offense. 

 

It's little consolation after a loss like yesterday, but, sorry to say, even with a win yesterday, we're not winning a SB this year. The game sort of reminded me of the '79 debacle in Dallas when we blew a 13-point lead with something like 3 minutes left. But that was so much worse, as it was the last game of the season, it cost us the division title AND any kind of playoff spot and it was against the Cowboys. 

 

My hope is that the offseason rumors were true, i.e., Cousins won't sign as long as Allen is here, and Snyder is forced to choose between the two of them, ultimately choosing the guy with great character who, despite his maddening roboticism at times, balls out for us every week no matter what weapons we give him access to. 

[petey hodge]

I think we’re one superstar free agent signing away from being a great team.  An Albert Haynesworth-type impact player .

 

(just testing if Snyder is trolling this board)

[Dan T.]

Here's a depressing way to look at things in the NFC East.  With their 4-6 record, the Redskins are closer in the standings to the woeful, last place 2-8 New York Giants than the division leading Eagles.  That's the company we're in.

[LetThePointsSoar]

One more random thought for conversation.  As frustrating as it is, that's TWICE now the league has issued us an apology this season for a bad call that's in essence lost us a close game. If everything else rang true and played out the same, how differently would we be viewing this season if we sat at 6-4?

 

Ifs and buts. But damn.