Who do we sign, 2018 and for how much

[XxSpearheadxX]

13 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Breeland looks like a good value but I'd only want to sign him if we cab get below-average contract on him.

Just a gut feeling but I sense Breeland might be a the grass is always greener type of guy. I love him at his best but with talent like Norman, Dunbar, Fuller, Moreau - I can't say I want to see the skins break the bank on him. I do have a soft spot for him though

[pray4surf]

I think Bree gets re-signed.  If the FO believed there was no chance he re-signs I think they would've been more active shopping Bree prior to the trade deadline.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I was a big Zach Brown guy on the FA thread before they signed him -- thought he would bring needed speed to a team desperate for it.  But wow, I didn't even think he'd be this level good.  I'd give him 8-10 million a year.  A key cog to the wheel now.  Fortunately, MLBs aren't paid through the roof, generally.

 

I'd resign Foster.  5 million a year?

 

I like Breeland but corners tend to command good money in FA and if that's the case here I'd let him go.  I am presuming Jay was serious recently when he said he thought Dunbar could develop into a pro bowl type CB.  Plus we got Moreau.

 

I liked the Pryor signing at the time but he's been disappointing.   Let him go perhaps and look at someone like Allen Robinson in FA -- might be cheap coming off an ACL. 

 

Spencer Long, I think you can bring back without paying through the nose.  5 million?

[Darrell Green Fan]

I wasn't posting here regularly but I clearly remember fans being very happy the Brown signing, I know I was.  As for Swearinger I am very happy to have been wrong. I saw a guy bouncing around so much and thought it was yet another bad signing.  

 

To answer the question the list obviously starts with Kirk, then Brown.  I see Breeland costing too much on the open market and they have depth there so I'd allow him to leave and use the money on upgrades elsewhere.  

 

They simply have to find a RB and figure out if the run blocking is also an issue. I would think they know any upgrades simply have to start with the running game.  

[UK Skins]

I know we disagree ;-) but for me Brown is top of the list. But I have always loved defence and the chance to keep a stud LB like him makes me salivate!

 

Swearinger seems to have made Breeland raise his game, would be a shame if he thinks he is worth big money now and we have to let him go. I'm glad we locked Swearinger up, I don't know if his new contract is a good one though, is there scope/need to give him a bit more, he really seems to have made a difference to the team. Loved the way he took the penalty the other day for defending Nicholson (I think it was).  

[goskins10]

Here is a list from overthecap.com. It should be as an attachment. I hope it works. If not, will find another way. If anyone would like the file please send me a PM. 

 

I added my thoughts on both the decision and the salary, just in terms of 2018 impact. It would get way too complicated for this exercise to consider all the permutations. 

 

 

Redskins_2018_FA_110817.xlsx

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, pray4surf said:

I think Bree gets re-signed.  If the FO believed there was no chance he re-signs I think they would've been more active shopping Bree prior to the trade deadline.  

I think that's an interesting point, but...

1) that's giving a lot of credit to the FO

2) I'm not sure they were in a position to do so given our injuries back there 

3) there's a chance he earns us a comp pick (who am I kidding, have we ever gotten a comp pick?)

4) Manusky values corners in a big way

 

Breeland brings a lot to this team and it's a risk to let him walk, however, good teams often let pricey guys walk and have a draft pipeline to replace them.  I'm hesitant to think our FO can be trusted to manage things that way, but I also don't want to assume incompetence there (especially as drafting Fuller/Moreau/Holsey is a sign they might get that formula) .  They've put together a good team for the most part and made some tough decisions to do so.  Of course, there's been some luck involved with Norman, Brown, Swearinger (and Allen falling into our laps) and some of our young guys stepping up in a big way (Fuller/Ioaniddas).  

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

25 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Here is a list from overthecap.com. It should be as an attachment. I hope it works. If not, will find another way. If anyone would like the file please send me a PM. 

 

I added my thoughts on both the decision and the salary, just in terms of 2018 impact. It would get way too complicated for this exercise to consider all the permutations. 

 

 

Redskins_2018_FA_110817.xlsx

Wow, I can't say that I disagree with any of your opinions here.  The only place we may differ is on Dunbar's upside, but I agree that we can't afford to keep Bree, so we have to hope.

[skinny21]

@goskins10If we're talking close to 35mil for those guys, you'll have to leave some of your re-signs behind (unless you're letting Kirk walk of course) - still need rookie pool and emergency money.  

 

I like Paul a lot, but I see a strong need for a blocking TE, so I'm inclined to let him walk.  I suppose I'd bring him back and then cut him if we find that blocking TE.  He is a leader, can play ST, and it's possible Sprinkle becomes that blocker, though.  

 

Almost ditto with Foster.  I'd rather keep him, but if we can draft a guy to compete with Spaight/Compton (after re-signing the latter), I'd strongly consider it.  Don't see our D dropping off too much with Foster injured.  

 

Anyway, it's those smaller decisions that are going to be tricky when all is said and done (assuming we re-sign Kirk).  Obviously, if we let Kirk walk, we can keep whoever we want, sign other FAs, and likely still have money left over to roll to next year (to help sign other guys hitting FA).  I don't like that idea, but I think that is a part of the Plan B discussed in the Cousins thread.  

[Veryoldschool]

Kirk for whatever plus-up variation of the Stafford deal will get it down.

[goskins10]

22 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@goskins10If we're talking close to 35mil for those guys, you'll have to leave some of your re-signs behind (unless you're letting Kirk walk of course) - still need rookie pool and emergency money.  

 

I like Paul a lot, but I see a strong need for a blocking TE, so I'm inclined to let him walk.  I suppose I'd bring him back and then cut him if we find that blocking TE.  He is a leader, can play ST, and it's possible Sprinkle becomes that blocker, though.  

 

Almost ditto with Foster.  I'd rather keep him, but if we can draft a guy to compete with Spaight/Compton (after re-signing the latter), I'd strongly consider it.  Don't see our D dropping off too much with Foster injured.  

 

Anyway, it's those smaller decisions that are going to be tricky when all is said and done (assuming we re-sign Kirk).  Obviously, if we let Kirk walk, we can keep whoever we want, sign other FAs, and likely still have money left over to roll to next year (to help sign other guys hitting FA).  I don't like that idea, but I think that is a part of the Plan B discussed in the Cousins thread.  

 

Thanks for the input and I should have probably been more precise and included that in my discussion. Point well taken.

 

In considering the rookie pool, assuming no trades is typically estimated at about $10M. Having said that, at least a few of those draft picks will replace some of the UFA resigns we need to make. So the total is more likely to be closer to $8M, but still I should have made it clear. I also did not count potential FAs which would throw a monkey wrench in it all. Having said that, any FAs would also allow you to not resign at least one if not maybe two of the players on the list. For the most part, think of it as my wish list :-)

 

 But going into the numbers more deeply, I believe they plan to roll over the $5M to in left over CAP from this year making the available CAP more like $63M. I am certain a QB will not cost $30M, even if it's Kirk. If not, then CAP is no issue. Assuming they get their collective heads out of the collective asses and sign Kirk, I would guess his CAP hit to be more in the range of $25M for this year. So $25M plus the $10M for the rookie pool, that's $35M leaving about $28M left. That creates some decisions for sure but not back breaking ones. There are also opportunities to renegotiate current contracts to create space. Morgan Moses, Josh Norman,  Trent Williams and a few others could be renegotiated to create more CAP space. 

 

I agree on both Foster and Paul. Those will be two very difficult decisions. I think ultimately you keep one but not both. Just a hunch. But my wish list would include both if you can afford them both. 

51 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Wow, I can't say that I disagree with any of your opinions here.  The only place we may differ is on Dunbar's upside, but I agree that we can't afford to keep Bree, so we have to hope.

 

Agree, it may be more wishful thinking on Dunbar but I honestly think he has a chance to be really good, especially opposite Norman and with Brown and Swearinger back there. Also, we have Fabian Moraeu and Kendall Fuller - who has made huge strides this year. More than just Dunbar, I see enough depth to let Breeland walk unless he comes at a discount. It will be one of the more interesting decisions to be made for sure. 

[skinny21]

@goskins10Wishlist makes sense.  I think they sign a bunch of their guys, see what the draft brings them, and then make some of those tough decisions.  They will have some leeway.  

 

Talking the draft for a second, there are several things they could do to get better and save money.  Draft an early round tackle to (try to) replace Nsheke - someone is going to want to offer that man a starting spot, and that's going to be tough for us to match.  

 

Draft an early round receiver to take away the need to hit up FA for one.  It's a risk, but I think re-signing Quick or Grant, and having Doctson, Reed, Crowder, Davis and Thomspon (not to mention Harris and Davis on the PS) will limit said risk.  

 

Draft an ILB.  Compton and Foster are FAs (I'm assuming we re-sign Brown), and Spaight is a FA next year.  Get a guy (or two) that can compete to start.  

 

Draft an early round DL.  Love Ioaniddas and Allen, and Lanier stepped up this game (albeit against a poor interior), but it helps to have an insurance policy.  Also never hurts to have a bad*** dline.  

 

Draft a back - one a bit more dynamic than our 'top 2'.  Would be great to have some insurance for Thompson too.  I'm not quite ready to give up on Marshall yet, but I sure wouldn't count on him either.  

[Peregrine]

I think the easy one at this point is Zach Brown.  He just makes whoever is playing beside him look that much better, and improves the middle of our defense by a large margin.  We are going to have a lot of unrestricted free agents next year which isnt great, but I think this year has also shown how important coaches like Tomsula are.  They took guys who did little last year and made them look great.  Of the other free agents:

 

I think we need to resign Long, we can look for a LG in the draft.  I think if we can keep Grant for cheap we likely do that, lets face it, hes a great #4 receiver.  We just shouldnt be paying him above that.  Then I think we might consider keeping Breeland, depending entirely on how Fuller and Mourea develop.  If they  dont feel they are ready yet we keep him at a decent price, otherwise, we let him go.  Then we resign Nsekhe, and one of either Foster or Compton, I dont think both. As for Cousins im waiting to see how he plays the last half of the season.

 

 Outside of Long and Brown I dont think there is a must keep player, with the exception of maybe 1 of Foster or Compton for depth, and Nsekhe to cover Trents injuries.  The rest are some guys that would be great to have as depth, but all depending on the price, and replaceable.  I estimate if we resigned Cousins, Long, Foster, Zach Brown, and tendered Nsekhe, we would still have $15 million left.  Everyone left would all be backups, with the only exception being Hopkins, Lauvao(old anyway) and Phil Taylor.

[gooseneck]

interesting article- what some players might cost

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-15-players-in-contract-years-helping-and-hurting-themselves/

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 11/8/2017 at 8:31 AM, goskins10 said:

Here is a list from overthecap.com. It should be as an attachment. I hope it works. If not, will find another way. If anyone would like the file please send me a PM. 

 

I added my thoughts on both the decision and the salary, just in terms of 2018 impact. It would get way too complicated for this exercise to consider all the permutations. 

 

 

Redskins_2018_FA_110817.xlsx

I agree on most counts.  Definitely agree on the headache.

 

Some thoughts though:

 

1. I might bring back Murphy for depth, but he's recovering from an ACL (I think), and the PED suspension.  I might try and get him to take a 1 year "let's see what you are now" deal that would allow him to be cut with virtually no cap penalty in camp if he doesn't pan out.  I might offer him a $1.5 or $2 mil/year contract with only $250 guaranteed.  If he doesn't show that he's back, or he looks slows, lumbering, whatever, then you can just release him with no real downside.  I might be mis-judging the Trent Murphy market, but I gotta think you could get him pretty cheap at least to see where he is.  

 

2. If you let Gallette and Murphy go, you've got to sign 2 really dependable FAs.  You can probably draft one, but probably need to focus on a good OLB in FA as well.  I'd move on from Gallette as well, but this might be another reason to possibly keep Murphy around at least until TC.

 

3. I would definitely TRY and re-sign Bree, because I like re-signing our draft picks who perform well.  We have a history of not re-signing our draft picks. When you finally draft a core guy in the 4th, you want to keep them around.  I understand depth, and that maybe it's not the most critical move, but I would at least give a good run at it.  And you always need CBs.  

 

4. Something tells me Foster and Compton both want out.  I hear they are best friends.  And I'm not entirely sure what Foster meant with his tweet about Allen, but clearly he was upset about something.  I could see them going to the Rams where dufus Joe Barry is the LB coach.  

 

5. I would not re-sign Grant.  They will.  I know this.  They will make sure that he is taken care of.  I wouldn't.  The reason I wouldn't is because he's a safety blanket for Gruden, and I firmly believe that safety blanked needs to be removed.  It will force Gruden to figure out how to use more talented players.  I like Grant, and think he could be your 4th or 5th WR. (For sake of Argument, #1 Doctson, #2??, #3(Slot) Crowder, #4 Grant.  Crowder isn't big or fast enough to play on the outside.  he's best in the slot. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the 'Skins need to make Kirk a big offer early in FA and force him to turn it down.  Because you can do interesting things with the cap in a long-term deal.  And they can find ways to lower the cap number for the first couple years, which will help re-sign the guys they want (Including Bree), and then go after a few high-impact starters, such as a WR, RB, DL, etc.

 

[skinny21]

@Voice_of_Reason

Agree about Murphy.  I actually wouldn't be opposed to re-signing Galette either.  I know the argument would be that he hasn't don't much here (even when healthy), but 1) he should come fairly cheap again, 2) he's the only speed rusher we have, and 3) he should get more of his explosion back this offseason.  Hope I didn't just jinx his knees...

Staying on the OLB, I wonder if an extension for Smith might be in the offing... believe he's a FA next offseason.  

 

Agreed about trying to re-sign Breeland.  At the very least to show the other players we tried.  If we do re-sign him though (and sign Cousins/Brown to a LTD), we're gonna be up against the cap in a hurry.  Figure close to 45mil (40 if we're lucky) for those three, 10 mil for the draft and in-season moves, and we'll have somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 mil to re-sign any others (Long, Nsheke, Dunbar, Compton/Foster, Murphy/Galette, etc.) and for bringing in new FAs.  

 

That's really pushing it for (almost any of) those positions you mentioned.  Of course, there's also the matter of other big money guys hitting FA the following year, which means extensions and/or rolling more money over.

Don't envy the FO this offseason.  

 

One out-of-the-box thing I'd consider is trading Reed.  Sounds crazy (for various reasons, and I haven't even looked up his contract details), but it presumably frees up cap space, and nets us a draft pick when we need ammo for - rb, DL, blocking TE, wr, probably an ILB and maybe an OLB.  Also need to figure out what to do about Nsheke - re-signing him or using a high pick at T.  

 

Gonna be a busy offseason, and I have a feeling no one is going to be too happy when all is said and done.  

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I agree on most counts.  Definitely agree on the headache.

 

Some thoughts though:

 

1. I might bring back Murphy for depth, but he's recovering from an ACL (I think), and the PED suspension.  I might try and get him to take a 1 year "let's see what you are now" deal that would allow him to be cut with virtually no cap penalty in camp if he doesn't pan out.  I might offer him a $1.5 or $2 mil/year contract with only $250 guaranteed.  If he doesn't show that he's back, or he looks slows, lumbering, whatever, then you can just release him with no real downside.  I might be mis-judging the Trent Murphy market, but I gotta think you could get him pretty cheap at least to see where he is.  

 

2. If you let Gallette and Murphy go, you've got to sign 2 really dependable FAs.  You can probably draft one, but probably need to focus on a good OLB in FA as well.  I'd move on from Gallette as well, but this might be another reason to possibly keep Murphy around at least until TC.

 

3. I would definitely TRY and re-sign Bree, because I like re-signing our draft picks who perform well.  We have a history of not re-signing our draft picks. When you finally draft a core guy in the 4th, you want to keep them around.  I understand depth, and that maybe it's not the most critical move, but I would at least give a good run at it.  And you always need CBs.  

 

4. Something tells me Foster and Compton both want out.  I hear they are best friends.  And I'm not entirely sure what Foster meant with his tweet about Allen, but clearly he was upset about something.  I could see them going to the Rams where dufus Joe Barry is the LB coach.  

 

5. I would not re-sign Grant.  They will.  I know this.  They will make sure that he is taken care of.  I wouldn't.  The reason I wouldn't is because he's a safety blanket for Gruden, and I firmly believe that safety blanked needs to be removed.  It will force Gruden to figure out how to use more talented players.  I like Grant, and think he could be your 4th or 5th WR. (For sake of Argument, #1 Doctson, #2??, #3(Slot) Crowder, #4 Grant.  Crowder isn't big or fast enough to play on the outside.  he's best in the slot. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I think the 'Skins need to make Kirk a big offer early in FA and force him to turn it down.  Because you can do interesting things with the cap in a long-term deal.  And they can find ways to lower the cap number for the first couple years, which will help re-sign the guys they want (Including Bree), and then go after a few high-impact starters, such as a WR, RB, DL, etc.

 

 

 

Good points. My thoughts on each: 

 

1. Murphy, I just do not want back at any price. But my guess is you are closer to where the team is. If they can sign him cheap - which like you I believe they can - they probably will. My biggest fear is that his best year he was juicing. If he had the same production either the way, the suspension itself is not as big a problem. 

 

2. Galette is a tricky one. Not sure what his market will be. Also, after two years being inured he is fresh and it takes that second year to really see what you have after being injured. I agree letting both him and Murphy may not be the best. However, due to injury both have never been available at the same time. You can let both go and it's only one guy - you like that math???  :-) 

 

3. I would love to resign Breeland. I am just afraid the market is going to be really high for him. Honestly they should have resigned him after last year. But he was he was not playing well with others. So I get it. In the end, as much as it would be nice to keep him, I think the combination of good to very good depth at CB and what he will cost, it just will not make good business sense to keep - of course unless he will sign for something reasonable. But I am pretty sure someone will give him a Norman or higher type contract. 

 

4. I disagree about Foster and Compton wanting out. Foster let off some steam but immediately the next day or at least within a few days - said he talked with Bruce and the team and apologized for over-reacting and they had a great discussion and were all on the same page. Compton is one of the coaches favorites. That's why I really think they can keep both. But maybe not. 

 

5. Grant - I am not as down on Grant as some are. But I would not be heart broken if they let him go. But he has been pretty solid this year so far. He is one we drafted and they put a lot of time in and it's starting to pay off at least a little bit. 

 

Uggh Kirk - You had to go there -        

 

Ok, I believe they need to throw a huge offer at him before the tag deadline and get him to negotiating table and get his ass signed. If they play this start low **** again and then end up tagging him - I would expect the transition tag -  he becomes a 1 yr rental - although not sure someone would not find a way to give him a multi-year contract for close to $30M/yr - which is what it will take to sign him. I will leave it at that. We can move this part of the discussion to the Kirk thread if you like. But I think most has already been said before. 

 

 

[petedaddy]

i feel fairly certain that breeland is gone...i hate to lose him, but just don't think we can pay him, especially at a position we do have some depth at

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, petedaddy said:

i feel fairly certain that breeland is gone...i hate to lose him, but just don't think we can pay him, especially at a position we do have some depth at

Especially when you run into a situation of losing say, Long, Foster and Murphy to keep him.  Or, for that matter, losing the ability to sign a talented receiver due to re-signing Breeland.  

[Gallen5862]

Greg Robinson the OT who was the second overall pick in the 2014 was cut by the Lions. Should the Redskins sign him? That would be getting back the player who the Rams drafted with the Redskins pick from the RGIII trade?  He could possibly help now and in 2018!

[Darrell Green Fan]

I was never a Grant fan but I'm kind of surprised that he is getting such little love.  He has been very important this year at a huge need position.  Nobody is saying he is great but as a 4th-5th WR who can step in and help he is pretty valuable IMO.

 

I think the injuries also showed how vulnerable this team is at OG depth. They appear to have one solid backup/development player in Chase but after that they were playing guys who simply do not belong on an NFL field. They were really lucky Kujo was available. 

[Bonez3]

My concern with Breeland is he's using. I would not be surprised in the slightest if he got hit with PED suspension. Why I say this? Because he knows the stakes of this year, contract year. I love his play this year and I actually felt he was a great player all along, one of the last defenders of him last year. But, even with that, the remarkable turnaround always worries me if it was more than just 'flipping a switch'.

 

Anyways, resign KC (will demand above market value), Zach Brown (at any price), Breeland (for right price),  Long (reward draft pick price), Scherf (all pro price) and Foster (market value to hometown discount). DL, CB have quality starters and depth as doses OL, TE, WR.

 

We need RB, OLB (1st round perhaps) and S in draft

[757SeanTaylor21]

Do you really believe bree is juicing because he doesn't look like the past 2 years...when everybody on our defense looked atrocious the past 2 years and now they suddenly look like they know how to play again? It's the credibility of the coaches that are now there running the show. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Do you really believe bree is juicing because he doesn't look like the past 2 years...when everybody on our defense looked atrocious the past 2 years and now they suddenly look like they know how to play again? It's the credibility of the coaches that are now there running the show. 

Better coaching, play calling (and perhaps scheme), plus better players around him.  Trusting your safeties and your pass rush to get home is huge.  Communication is huge too - far fewer blown coverages this year as opposed to the last two years.  I believe it was last year that Compton said everyone needed to not try to be a hero and just play their assignments.  Doesn't hurt that we've been better against the run too.  

 

Breeland's uptick in play isn't a 180 like Ioaniddas or Fuller, he's showing all of the traits he showed his first few years, just more consistently.  I was a huge Breeland fan until last year... his comments after Norman was signed, his social media exploits and poor play in the first half of the season soured me on him substantially.  

 

The dude is talented though and I've come back around a bit.  I'd love to re-sign him, I just place his priority behind Kirk and Brown, and if you give big contracts to those two, a third large contract will inhibit other moves.  He also happens to play at the one(?) position we have good depth.  

[gooseneck]

11 hours ago, Gallen5862 said:

Greg Robinson the OT who was the second overall pick in the 2014 was cut by the Lions. Should the Redskins sign him? That would be getting back the player who the Rams drafted with the Redskins pick from the RGIII trade?  He could possibly help now and in 2018!

would be worth it for the irony