General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Probably because that didn't expect an active shooter. I've worked in the public sector for almost 20 years and never had that training.

 

Something that also probably hindered their ability to locate him was his legal use of a suppressor. 

 

I work for federal court system in dc, there are at least 6-7 armed personnel protecting the entrances to the building which involving buzzing in, man traps, and metal detectors.  If schools have lockdown procedures, this shouldnt be a public sector issue. 

 

At this point there needs to be bulletproof glass and mandatory door locking mechanisms standard in public and private sector, this is bare minimum **** that some school districts in midwest are already ahead of the game on.

[The Evil Genius]

From my experience, that's the difference between federal and state/local government offices. My wife is a fed and they jump through hoops to get in to their work and have constant security training.

 

I'm a state worker and basically anyone with a DL can stroll in. 

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

From my experience, that's the difference between federal and state/local government offices. My wife is a fed and they jump through hoops to get in to their work and have constant security training.

 

I'm a state worker and basically anyone with a DL can stroll in. 

 

Ya, we seriously need to rethink this mass shooting issue because the guns aren't going anywhere and there's not always going to be red flags to warn us.  It's like different physical security needed here, the laws mean nothing once they are shooting, then what?  I'm waiting for the right to seize on this idea to get more armed personnel and guns on the streets, maybe we should be happy they haven't yet.

[tshile]

22 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

At this point there needs to be bulletproof glass and mandatory door locking mechanisms standard in public and private sector

 

Yeah?

 

you should try sitting in a room with executives pitching that. 

 

You get shut up because it won’t be welcoming, community this and that, etc. 

 

what seems obvious is often hard to get buy in from when you’re not the main decision maker. 

 

Just so happens those people aren’t the ones that’ll be in the main line of fire should an event occur. Guess that’s why all their employees are citing safety concerns (specifically in regards to mass shootings) in their evaluations while the execs are hemming and hawing about how it won’t be “welcoming” and pointing out the police are 5 minute away

 

/rant

22 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

I'm waiting for the right to seize on this idea to get more armed personnel and guns on the streets, maybe we should be happy they haven't yet.

They already have. Their best (only?) offered idea is to arm teachers. 

 

So...

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Turning public places into jail cells won’t stop mass shootings.  There’s no correlation between gun violence and magnetic lock installations . 

Edited June 3, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Llevron]

8 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Yeah?

 

you should try sitting in a room with executives pitching that. 

 

You get shut up because it won’t be welcoming, community this and that, etc. 

 

what seems obvious is often hard to get buy in from when you’re not the main decision maker. 

 

Just so happens those people aren’t the ones that’ll be in the main line of fire should an event occur. Guess that’s why all their employees are citing safety concerns (specifically in regards to mass shootings) in their evaluations while the execs are hemming and hawing about how it won’t be “welcoming” and pointing out the police are 5 minute away

 

/rant

 

Real ****. Story time. 

 

CEO of my last opportunity moved the office from Moco to DC. In a....more urban....part of DC and it made them uncomfortable. I was tasked with finding how to make the employees (60% young white women) more comfortable in the setting. Specifically, when they have to work late and there is no parking on site. 

 

Came up with many ideas. Most notably, ****ing lights in the alleyway behind the building and doors that auto lock after a certain hour. The lights, though a good idea, where too bright and hurt there sensitive eyes. The doors, while secure, where hard to get into. So both ideas where scrapped early. 

 

Eventually, as anyone with half a brain could have assumed, **** broke loose and they decided that we needed something. Anything! Kids not going to school would gather in the alleyway to smoke. Cars being broken into on the daily. People being approached by randoms looking for a good time or offering one. People asking for money. The whole deal. Of course no lights and no auto locking doors. So I offered to just put up a chain link fence around the doorway in the back of the alley. You know what this **** told me lol. She said "You dont understand the community and this would be too unwelcoming" @tshile 

 

They ultimately decided to do nothing. We had a "readiness" conversation about disgruntled employees too. Worried about shootings. 

 

Ended the same way. 

[Renegade7]

14 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Turning public places into jail cells won’t stop mass shootings.  There’s no correlation between gun violence and magnetic lock installations . 

 

That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a minute now.  Why are taking this conversation to putting barbed wire everywhere?  Every door in a public place should be able to lock to prevent entry and bulletproof glass mandatory.  If these school districts can figure this out, there's no reason rest of us can't

 

http://www.dailyjournal.net/2019/03/22/clarkpleasant_to_add_21_million_in_security_cameras_door_locks/

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

How would any of that put a serious dent in gun violence though? It wouldnt have prevented the deadliest mass shootings at all...

Edited June 3, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Just so happens those people aren’t the ones that’ll be in the main line of fire should an event occur. Guess that’s why all their employees are citing safety concerns (specifically in regards to mass shootings) in their evaluations while the execs are hemming and hawing about how it won’t be “welcoming” and pointing out the police are 5 minute away

 

/rant

 

 

Bruh, two jobs ago someone walked all the way from outside into my managers office accusing an employ of finding her cell phone and keeping.  Her reaction to her brother who owned the company was locking the f'n front doors, buzz people in, all they had to do was enable it.  But no, he wanted the company to be inviting.  That's his own sister bro, we are past the point of reevaluating this whole office space being inviting thing, its not a f'n public park, its private property.

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

How would any of that put a serious dent in gun violence though? It wouldnt have prevented the deadliest mass shootings at all...

That's not the point, there a millions of soft targets all over the country this would effect, think of how many school killings this could've limited?  How many come in the building and go room to room like this and Virginia Tech?

[CousinsCowgirl84]

If it cost that school system 2.1 million to retrofit 8 schools you are looking at around $25billion dollars to retrofit every public school.

 

you could buy back a lot of elephants with that.

[Dan T.]

I don't know the answers, but it depresses me that we have to talk about target hardening the local DMV office like we're in a ****ing war zone.

[Larry]

Just now, Dan T. said:

I don't know the answers, but it depresses me that we have to talk about target hardening the local DMV office like we're in a ****ing war zone.

 

Granted, I dealt with the Virginia DMV in the 70s-90s. But based on my experiences, I'm amazed they don't have somebody go crazy with a gun once a week. Per office. 

 

(Might have improved their service, if they were terrified of their customers.)

[tshile]

22 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

If it cost that school system 2.1 million to retrofit 8 schools you are looking at around $25billion dollars to retrofit every public school.

 

you could buy back a lot of elephants with that.

 

Your argument is dumb when juxtaposed with the reality that our federal and state governments have punted on the issue. 

 

It doesn’t matter what it costs when it’s the only option. You either act when you can or you don’t.  It’s that simple. A lot of things are that simple, to be honest. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 minute ago, tshile said:

 

 

 

It doesn’t matter what it costs when it’s the only option.

 

Its not the only option.  It’s an expensive option that will have a small impact on gun violence over all.

 

 

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

If it cost that school system 2.1 million to retrofit 8 schools you are looking at around $25billion dollars to retrofit every public school.

 

you could buy back a lot of elephants with that.

 

Caskets are expensive too, this sounds like an investment and worth it. 

 

You don't judge mass transit by how much money it makes, you judge it by how many cars it takes off the road.  Most metrorail systems like New York and dc run a deficit, but can you imagine those cities without one?

 

This is a big picture conversation, defense budget is $700 billion plus annually and your comparing that to $25 billion all together?

[TradeTheBeal!]

The amount of soft targets is infinite.  If one wished, one could target children and/or classmates at playgrounds/sporting events/bus stops/field trips/etc...and that’s exactly what will happen.

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Granted, I dealt with the Virginia DMV in the 70s-90s. But based on my experiences, I'm amazed they don't have somebody go crazy with a gun once a week. Per office. 

 

(Might have improved their service, if they were terrified of their customers.)

That's because every DMV I've ever been in in NOVA and Hampton Roads has at least one or two armed security guards now.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Caskets are expensive too, this sounds like an investment and worth it. 

 

You don't judge mass transit by how much money it makes, you judge it by how many cars it takes off the road.  Most metrorail systems like New York and dc run a deficit, but can you imagine those cities without one?

 

 

The metro has a big impact on public transportation. If installing magnetic locks on public schools would reduce gun violence by a large percentage, (say 20-25%) sign me up, but what you are talking about is fringe cases. 2-3 percent at best.

 

Quote

 

This is a big picture conversation, defense budget is $700 billion plus annually and your comparing that to $25 billion all together?

 

See above.

 

 

Should we do it? The answer to that is maybe. Will it do anything to solve gun violence? The answer to that is no.

Edited June 3, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Renegade7]

22 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

I don't know the answers, but it depresses me that we have to talk about target hardening the local DMV office like we're in a ****ing war zone.

You wouldn't even notice if the glass is bulletproof and they typically have an armed guard in their now anyway.

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

The metro has a big impact on public transportation. If installing magnetic locks on public schools would reduce gun violence by a large percentage, (say 20-25%) sign me up, but what you are talking about is fringe cases. 2-3 percent at best.

 

 

See above.

 

Bs, 2-3% show me the numbers, we talking about eliminating schools as a soft target, not trying to factor in how often it happens, it happens now more then ever, doing nothing based on percentages is a cop out.

[Renegade7]

14 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Your argument is dumb when juxtaposed with the reality that our federal and state governments have punted on the issue. 

 

It doesn’t matter what it costs when it’s the only option. You either act when you can or you don’t.  It’s that simple. A lot of things are that simple, to be honest. 

I mean, Jesus, even this is better then nothing

 

 

[Larry]

9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

The metro has a big impact on public transportation. If installing magnetic locks on public schools would reduce gun violence by a large percentage, (say 20-25%) sign me up, but what you are talking about is fringe cases. 2-3 percent at best.

 

I'd be curious to hear your proposal that WILL reduce gun violence by 20-25%. 

 

In fact, I'll start:

 

1). Reduce the number of guns in the US by, I'd estimate 80%. (Hey, I didn't say it had to have a chance of passing.)

2). ......?

Edited June 3, 2019 by Larry

[MartinC]

20 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

It doesn’t matter what it costs when it’s the only option. 

 

It's not the only option. Pretty much the rest of the known world shows us other much better options (gun control) - there just is not the political will to take them up. 

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

12 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

I'd be curious to hear your proposal that WILL reduce gun violence by 20-25%. 

 

In fact, I'll start:

 

1). Reduce the number of guns in the US by, I'd estimate 80%. (Hey, I didn't say it had to have a chance of passing.)

2). ......?

 

Shhhhh! Cant talk about elephants in this topic. 

Edited June 3, 2019 by CousinsCowgirl84

[MartinC]

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

and they typically have an armed guard in their now anyway.

 

Yeah and in the recent Colorado shooting one of the armed school guards shot at deputies and students (I presume accidentally) and going a little bit further back an armed (black) security guard at a bar in Chicago was shot dead by police responding to a shooting incident at that bar. 

 

So that's all working well. Having more untrained or half trained people running around with guns in a highly charged and confused situation is a recipe for (even bigger) disaster.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Yeah and in the recent Colorado shooting one of the armed school guards shot at deputies and students (I presume accidentally) and going a little bit further back an armed (black) security guard at a bar in Chicago was shot dead by police responding to a shooting incident at that bar. 

 

So that's all working well. Having more untrained or half trained people running around with guns in a highly charged and confused situation is a recipe for (even bigger) disaster.

 

That's a training issue, not a reason to say that won't help.  Someone has to show up first, if anything to help relay scope of the situation to the help that's supposed to coming.