Tax Bill

[mcsluggo]

from an economist at brookings:  a reading list on important books/paper on the current tax issues

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/11/13/required-reading-to-understand-the-tax-policy-fight/?utm_campaign=Brookings Brief&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=58397153

 

Americans lean philosophically towards small government, but operationally strongly support the most expensive government programs (and would hate a cut in those services, and are willing to pay taxes to keep those programs)

 

Americans, including non-wealthy republicans, are increasingly unhappy with the current increasing income inequality.

 

americans, particularly non-wealthy republicans, hate the death tax ... until they are actually educated on the inheritance tax.  Then they love it. 

 

in general, Americans don;t understand these tax proposals... when they are educated on them, they hate how regressive they are.

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by visionary

[HOF44]

14 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

 

americans, particularly non-wealthy republicans, hate the death tax ... until they are actually educated on the inheritance tax.  Then they love it. 

 

in general, Americans don;t understand these tax proposals... when they are educated on them, they hate how regressive they are.

 

 

 

Never have so many voted against their own interests.  It mind boggling and frustrating.

[PleaseBlitz]

9 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

Never have so many voted against their own interests.  It mind boggling and frustrating.

 

Not since November 8, 2016 at least. 

[HOF44]

2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Not since November 8, 2016 at least. 

Thats what I was referring to.  I'm sure when some of their paychecks start coming up short SOMEHOW it will be the fault of those elitist libtards.  

Edited November 14, 2017 by HOF44

[gbear]

Have I mentioned lately how healthy these Republicans driving this tax bill must be?  It must be  nice.

[No Excuses]

My early prediction is that this tax bill will fail as hard as ACA repeal did if they include a repeal of the individual mandate. 

 

Republicans seem intent on losing 2018 in a landslide. 

[mcsluggo]

 

http://newsboss.in/ly/tESuWY/How-to-make-the-Republican-tax-plan-work  

<I am a subscriber to Economist.com... so i am not sure if the above link works getting the full article, or not?   below is a direct link to the article....>

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21731166-house-republicans-have-written-bad-bill-it-could-be-made-better-how-make-republican?fsrc=rss

 

Quote

How to make the Republican tax plan work

House Republicans have written a bad bill. But it could be made better

Nov 11, 2017-ECONOMIST magazine

THE last time Republicans controlled both the White House and Congress, under President George W. Bush, they passed a package of temporary tax cuts. This time they are displaying more ambition. The tax bill unveiled in the House of Representatives on November 2nd can properly be called a reform. It would slash deductions that distort the economy: for debt and mortgage interest, state taxes and manufacturers. The savings would go towards reducing most marginal tax rates.

The principle of scrapping deductions in order to lower rates is exactly the right one. But the House bill is flawed. Despite leaving the top rate of personal income tax unchanged, the bill’s benefits are unduly skewed towards the rich. And rather than boost growth, as President Donald Trump wants, the bill may slow the economy in the long term, by adding around $1.5trn to the national debt by 2028.

<more at link>

 

a truly balanced look at the discussion, from a magazine that trends very much PRO-TAX-CUT--- the law stinks, but it doesn't have to.

 

- make it revenue neutral (no fiscal stimulus during a boom)

- keep the inheritance tax 

- get rid of the pass through

- get rid of the "carried interest" bull**** gift to hedge fund managers

- DON'T get rid of the personal exemption 

- shift some of the blanket corporate tax cut to more targeted "expensing" deductions, which promotes investment rather than just giving a windfall gain to equities owners.

 

this bill is a piece of **** by DESIGN.  but it doesn't have to be, it choses to be.  It IS just a handout to the rich...and it is incredibly brazen about it.   

 

I can;t understand how the (non rolls royce) GOP base swallows this crap? .... but ... then... you see the Roy Moore news...... 

 

[Hersh]

23 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

http://newsboss.in/ly/tESuWY/How-to-make-the-Republican-tax-plan-work  

<I am a subscriber to Economist.com... so i am not sure if the above link works getting the full article, or not?   below is a direct link to the article....>

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21731166-house-republicans-have-written-bad-bill-it-could-be-made-better-how-make-republican?fsrc=rss

 

 

a truly balanced look at the discussion, from a magazine that trends very much PRO-TAX-CUT--- the law stinks, but it doesn't have to.

 

- make it revenue neutral (no fiscal stimulus during a boom)

- keep the inheritance tax 

- get rid of the pass through

- get rid of the "carried interest" bull**** gift to hedge fund managers

- DON'T get rid of the personal exemption 

- shift some of the blanket corporate tax cut to more targeted "expensing" deductions, which promotes investment rather than just giving a windfall gain to equities owners.

 

this bill is a piece of **** by DESIGN.  but it doesn't have to be, it choses to be.  It IS just a handout to the rich...and it is incredibly brazen about it.   

 

I can;t understand how the (non rolls royce) GOP base swallows this crap? .... but ... then... you see the Roy Moore news...... 

 

Can you really not understand? 

 

There are no principles associated with the GOP beyond being anti-choice and pro-gun. 

[mcsluggo]

its not a principal... (which i read as a standard, or a moral take on things)

 

its a position...

...as in, assuming the position.   

grabbing your ankles and assuming the position. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by mcsluggo

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

 

[Fergasun]

Floor debate on House just started.  "Debate" as in "let's throw talking points at each other". 

GOP is technically true that their constituents will see a cut -- however that cut phases out after ten years.  

Democrats are correct in that this is way overbalanced to the rich. 

 

Favorite line I heard tonight: "This should be called the Dynasty Protection Act".  

[Burgold]

On 11/14/2017 at 4:16 PM, No Excuses said:

My early prediction is that this tax bill will fail as hard as ACA repeal did if they include a repeal of the individual mandate. 

 

Republicans seem intent on losing 2018 in a landslide. 

There's only one reason you release something like this to the Congress at large at 10 pm and then ask for for everyone to wor at 10 am the next morning. Still, I'm worried about this vote. Worried that some Republicans will try to take advantage of the Moore distraction as cover for voting for this no matter how bad it is... and they know it is bad.

[Fergasun]

I don't get why it is in the nature of political parties to over-reach.  I understand Obamacare -- they were elected and ran on changes to healthcare. 

 

The GOP holds a slim majority in the Senate (2 votes).  They are passing the tax bill under shady procedural steps to avoid a filibuster.  Trump and this could crush them in 2018.  All they say is, "the donors" -- thats BS.  Voters still vote.... 

 

This is going to have impact on Americans and we can see that it is being tilted and biased towards the top 10%.  Yet, they claim that this will "even things out" and that under the status quo the top 10% get a benefit.  Can't have it both ways.....  

[PleaseBlitz]

I don't see how Collins can vote for the tax bill that includes repealing the individual mandate.  Her state JUST VOTED in favor of dramatically expanding access to healthcare by an 18 point margin.  

[HOF44]

44 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

I don't get why it is in the nature of political parties to over-reach.  I understand Obamacare -- they were elected and ran on changes to healthcare. 

 

The GOP holds a slim majority in the Senate (2 votes).  They are passing the tax bill under shady procedural steps to avoid a filibuster.  Trump and this could crush them in 2018.  All they say is, "the donors" -- thats BS.  Voters still vote.... 

 

This is going to have impact on Americans and we can see that it is being tilted and biased towards the top 10%.  Yet, they claim that this will "even things out" and that under the status quo the top 10% get a benefit.  Can't have it both ways.....  

The Rep. base will be told anything negative from the bill will be the fault of those nasty god hating libtards and they will believe it.  I’ve never witnessed anything like it. 

[LD0506]

Says it all.........

 

[twa]

53 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I don't see how Collins can vote for the tax bill that includes repealing the individual mandate.  Her state JUST VOTED in favor of dramatically expanding access to healthcare by an 18 point margin.  

 

The expanded healthcare is so great they need to force you to get it?

Two different things

[daveakl]

9 minutes ago, twa said:

 

The expanded healthcare is so great they need to force you to get it?

Two different things

Don't ever change. You make me smile.

[PleaseBlitz]

12 minutes ago, twa said:

 

The expanded healthcare is so great they need to force you to get it?

Two different things

 

Two different but very related things.  You could certainly dig down into the weeds and show that the individual mandate, which is a vital leg of the ACA, and expanding Medicaid access, allowable under a provision of the ACA, are not exactly the same thing.  I'm sure Maine's voters, who overwhelmingly voted for the expansion of the ACA, will definitely see it that way.  

 

Or, as the Wall Street Journal put it:  "Maine residents voted decisively to expand access to Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act on Tuesday, a key test of the ACA’s popularity after a failed push to repeal it by Republicans in Washington."

 

So go ahead and pick your nits, I stand by what I said, Collins can't vote for it. 

[LD0506]

They need multiple Rs, in the Senate and the House, to not just fall on their swords but leap on them in order to have any chance of passing this atrocity. Remember the way the Ds did to pass the ACA? They knew what was coming, but did it anyway.

 

Now, show of hands, who thinks that the current incarnation of the Republikcan Partei inspires the loyalty, the selfless courage amongst its minions to commit political seppuku over this? Not just one or two, but two/three in the Senate and then two dozen in the House, minimum.

[visionary]

 

[twa]

1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Two different but very related things.  You could certainly dig down into the weeds and show that the individual mandate, which is a vital leg of the ACA, and expanding Medicaid access, allowable under a provision of the ACA, are not exactly the same thing.  I'm sure Maine's voters, who overwhelmingly voted for the expansion of the ACA, will definitely see it that way.  

 

Or, as the Wall Street Journal put it:  "Maine residents voted decisively to expand access to Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act on Tuesday, a key test of the ACA’s popularity after a failed push to repeal it by Republicans in Washington."

 

So go ahead and pick your nits, I stand by what I said, Collins can't vote for it. 

 

Would ACA fail w/o the mandate?

If so it is not as popular as you suggest.