WP - The Redskins won’t be any better in 2017. Can Dan Snyder accept that?

[TSO]

Jerry Brewer is definitely not a troll, guys. Come on now. 

[HapHaszard]

I'm not sure where all this Brewer is a troll comes from.  I read all his Redskins articles, and find them to be not only informative, but also realize that it is one mans opinion.  While I don't always agree with his take, I do respect that he has taken the time to do the research and come up with thoughtful articles.  If I want just the facts I read John Keim, one of the best true football reporters out there.  If I want a blog type article it's Rich Tandler.  When you take all 3 together it gives you a well rounded idea of where the team is. 

 

Do I think the Redskins are going to be better than last year?  I sure hope so but personally if we reach 9-7 I will be happy.  Why? because our schedule is harder this year.  I won't swear to this but I read we have the 4th toughest schedule in the NFC.   Losing 2 1000 yard receivers is never easy to replace. Pryor may be the answer but at this point I don't think so.  Guess we will find out over the next couple of months.

[TheGreek1973]

I get what the article is trying to say.  And I agree the uncertain situation with Cousins is a huge issue.  But when people have the Eagles beating us this year twice, I ask.  How are they different than us?  They also have many unknowns, so do the boys and Giants.  The reason why football is so exciting is because you never know how a team will come together and compete.  Atlanta wasn't very good in 2015, and yet 2016 they were all world.  Personally I trust the coaching staff more than I have any other including Gibbs II.

[wilco_holland]

I think the FO is taking a huge risk. I'm a long term thinker but I dont see a lot of that right now. 

 

Imo this team has one key element to be succesfull and that is theire passing game. They where unable to sign the guy who throws the ball and let his two top WR's walk. So the most long term succesfactor of this team is in danger. In 2018 we have Doctson (will he ever be healthy), Reed (how long will he keep playing), Crowder and solid oline (thats good). 

 

So if this season sucks and Kirk walks. You dont have an identity. You will go into a rebuild. My qeustion is...will you do that with current FO and coaches or a new group. 

 

I feel like the FO is not gonna move. Gruden can prove his worth this year. If he finds a way to get this O going early then he does one hell of a job and should stay. 

[SkinsGuy]

7 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Jerry Brewer is definitely not a troll, guys. Come on now. 

 

He just works for a troll newspaper.  

[Burgold]

I like Brewer, but he is an incrementalist. He wrote the same article for the Wiz and the Terps, urging the fans for patience because he expects only baby steps.

 

This is an interesting season. It should be a "full steam ahead" year with Gurden in his fourth year and the team assembled to his liking, but instead there's a lot of churn, a lot of one year contracts and instability in both the roster and coaching ranks. That makes what should be a launch year possibly a last hurrah year or a rebuilding year. I don't really know what to make of this year.

 

You'd think after a break out 9-7 year and a stabalizing 8-7-1 year, the team would be set to make a move. Instead, it feels like the offense is starting all over again and so is the defense. If we have stability in year four it might only be in our special teams.

[I Love The Skins]

19 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

It is easy to imagine things heading south this year because the near league best passing game has a made a crappy team seem respectable.  With green wide receivers and a different OC the passing game could drop considerably even with Cousins performing his job.  Couple that with a faithless owner who is comfortable blowing things up and marketing a new creation and the odds of a meltdown are pretty good.

 That's not true though iIf Dan had a history of that he would have fired Vinny alot earlier then he did. He gave Shanny time to fix things too. Marty is the only one he fired after 1 year.

[SkinsGuy]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

You'd think after a break out 9-7 year and a stabalizing 8-7-1 year, the team would be set to make a move. Instead, it feels like the offense is starting all over again and so is the defense. If we have stability in year four it might only be in our special teams.

 

That's mostly because of the departure of McVay, which doesn't make any sense because this is Gruden's offense. The one he brought from the Bengals and set up here.

 

Probably also because of the departure of Garcon and Jackson, which might be more legitimate. But I think we will be alright with our new WRs.

[DogofWar1]

I'm hoping I can enjoy the ride this year, because I'm very worried we'll be back in the wilderness come 2018.  Sure, I'd appreciate being a year-in-year-out playoff team, but with the elephant on the horizon I'm just hoping we've got a shot to make it to the dance in weeks 16 and 17.

 

I think Snyder will be accepting of a team that is always in it until week 16/17.  He might be less so a couple years down the line if we shell out for Cousins, but this whole "above .500" thing is new enough that the novelty hasn't worn off, yet.

[Wyvern]

Unless the Skins completely flopped (such as a season record of 2-14, 3-13, maybe even 4-12, with most of the marquee starters playing most the season) Snyder knows he MUSTsit on his hands and simply be patient.  Firing Gruden, and blowing up the team (I.e., letting Cousins and others walk, etc ....) would reduce his franchise's value in so many ways.

 

First of all, if Snyder fires Gruden for finishing 2017 with a 6-10 or 7-9 season... Snyder/Allen won't be able to convince any decent coach to gamble their career aspirations on working with the Skins FO.  All those 1-year contract FAs will bail too.  Most likely all the decent 2018 FAs would shy away from Washington, out of concerns of the dumpster-fire of a franchise the media portrayed to the public.

 

 ...And so, Snyder would have to try to fill his stadium, hoping fans will continue to support a team going though yet another re-building mode,  under some JAG head coach and Bruce Allen's FO (and, in my opinion, a scouting group that still needs to be overhauled).

 

Snyder knows he needs something promising and flashy to market his Redskins franchise to the fan base -- and blowing up the team won't be much of a draw.  How much would you want to plunk down money for "In Bruce I Trust"?

 

[TSO]

5 hours ago, Burgold said:

 

You'd think after a break out 9-7 year and a stabalizing 8-7-1 year, the team would be set to make a move. Instead, it feels like the offense is starting all over again and so is the defense. If we have stability in year four it might only be in our special teams.

 

Yup.

 

I went into this offseason very excited about what the organization could do to take the next step. I was pleased they didn't have an epic collapse like they always do after making the playoffs the year prior, so this "build" felt real. It was time to take the next step. 

 

 We had a bunch of draft picks (something almost always overlooked when people talk about the 2016 draft) and a ton of cap space. 

 

My personal preference was to go all out on the defense (specifically the Dline), sign Kirk long term, and re-sign one of Djax or Garçon. Whatever they decided at defensive coach I was fine with. 

 

Then we proceeded to lose McVay (to no fault of our own, of course); fire our GM in as ugly a manner as you can, not hire another one and, once again, structure the FO in an unorthodox way that's killed us in the past; sign two unheralded Dlinemen via FA; and not only fail to sign Kirk long term, but have our Team President release an utterly disgusting comment attempting to turn him into the villain - something this FO is incredibly adept at. Maybe the only thing it's that good at. 

 

On the positive side, they extended Gruden (a nice surprise); Swearinger should be an upgrade at Safety; landing Pryor was a steal; the draft - at least on the surface - looks great, especially having Allen fall to us and giving much needed aid to our Dline; and I do like that they've finally added pieces to the scouting department and are now closer to the league average there in terms of workforce, though we've got no idea how good those pieces are. 

 

Suffice to say, I can't rationally look at this offseason, with the expectations I had, and say, "yup, this was the one where we took the next step like I thought".

 

If I'm being totally honest with myself, I feel like we took a major step back in terms of the long term, but on the other hand I do feel like this roster can be pretty good this year. However, this preseason certainly put a damper on that feeling. But it's just the preseason, I guess. :/ 

 

Now with this Su'a news coming out... there's just a lot of bad vibes going into the season. I'm rooting like crazy they overcome it all, though, and I believe in guys like Jay and Kirk enough to think they can. I just get bothered that they have to overcome so much of what I feel is mostly self-induced by the organization.

 

So I totally get where Brewer is coming from here. This might sound crazy, but if we struggle and the FO remains patient with Jay, signs Kirk long term, and tries to maintain stability elsewhere... I'll do a total 180 on how I feel about them. I'll actually be pleased. If we don't struggle and they do the above, I'll just assume they were forced to more than them being smart. So I'll still have my concerns about them. 

 

Basically, I want to see them show patience and restraint during times of adversity or if things end disappointedly. Something I don't think they ever truly do. That requires bad things to happen, which I don't want to see, but I kinda need to in order to believe that we've got a sound FO. 

 

If that makes any sense, lol.  

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I feel like the likelihood of this season going very badly is increasing every week. 

 

I hope we don't blow it up tho. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Then we proceeded to lose McVay (to no fault of our own, of course); fire our GM in as ugly a manner as you can, not hire another one and, once again, structure the FO in an unorthodox way that's killed  us in the past; sign two unheralded Dlinemen via FA; and not only fail to sign Kirk long term, but have our Team President release an utterly disgusting comment attempting to turn him into the villain - something this FO is incredibly adept at. Maybe the only thing it's that good at. 

 

On the positive side, they extended Gruden (a nice surprise); Swearinger should be an upgrade at Safety; landing Pryor was a steal; the draft - at least on the surface - looks great, especially having Allen fall to us and giving much needed aid to our Dline; and I do like that they've finally added pieces to the scouting department and are now closer to the league average there in terms of workforce, though we've got no idea how good those pieces are. 

 

Now with this Su'a news coming out... there's just a lot of bad vibes going into the season.

 

This for me has to be the oddest preseason.  in one sense, it should be great.  They are coming off of back to back winning seasons which is quite a feat for this downtrodden franchise.  We got a QB who is top 3-10 statistically and is entering his prime.  We upgraded the defense.  Off season transactions look mostly good.  Everything in theory is pointing up.

 

But oddly it feels like a mirage and hollow at the same time.   It feels like a house of cards.   And I can see really anything happening.  I can see the team fulfilling expectations and going 10-6.  I can see them ending up short like last season 8-8, etc.  I can also see the weight of the schedule and all the drama which I suspect more chapters to come -- where it can go 6-10.  

 

It's a hot topic among radio talk shows especially on 106.7 as to the lack of buzz and hype about this season among fans compared to last year and some previous seasons.  They say they are getting less calls than usual about the team.  Russell said he has a source that tells him the Redskins are struggling more than usual to sell box seats and premium ticket packages.  

 

I think the FO totally miscalculated what a buzz kill failing to lock in Kirk would do -- especially after the Scot drama.  I think they miscalculated the response to Doug's hire.  I think they thought hey the fans would bask in 1987 nostalgia, etc.  That didn't happen.   IMO their typical bag of tricks PR wise to distract and or win over fans -- didn't work this time.  

 

With that in mind, I got no feel for how they'd react to a bad season or one where they fall short.  Blow it all up?  The thing is they've gotten away with that in the past with a sexy head coaching hire:  Spurrier (though the previous 8-8 season wasn't bad), Gibbs, Shanny.   I don't think they get away with it this time.  Most fans I believe like Jay and Kirk.  I take Brewer's article as Dan I know your instinct is to blow things up eventually but you have shown more patience with Jay so stick with it and hang in there further. 

 

Speaking as a fan who has fallen more than once for the sexy new beginning for the team and gotten jazzed about the new savior -- I'm burnt out on it.  In my mind, I'm not going to be fooled by it again.  And speaking to other fans I know I'm not alone with that feeling.  I think that's what Dan-Bruce are up against.  I totally see how its worked for them in the past to play those PR games -- its worked on me.  But not only do I think it will fall flat in 2018, I think it will backfire big time.

 

That's my long winded way of saying, I'm hoping hard for a big year for the team.  I think that will help right the ship in terms of stability.   Otherwise, I think next off season might be a real miserable one and represent a slide back to being the perennial bottom rung team in the NFC east.   The team should be one on the rise and poised to be a perennial contender but it oddly feels like its stuck on a pendulum that will go up or down dramatically depending on how this season plays out.  It feels oddly like a season on the brink. 

[zoony]

23 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

That part in bold is an excellent point for everyone to remember...

 

Journalism usually means conveying facts and information about a topic, and basically letting the reader decide what it should mean. Opinion and commentary is one (often very) subjective view on a topic, and doesn't get filled with all the facts, usually just the ones that back up the writer's perspective.

 

Most sportswriters deal in subjective opinion pieces. Most readers believe these articles are objective facts presented by journalists. It gets blurred and some writers make use of that blurred 

nevermind dont want a political discussion

[zoony]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

think the FO totally miscalculated what a buzz kill failing to lock in Kirk would do -- especially after the Scot drama.  I think they miscalculated the response to Doug's hire.  I think they thought hey the fans would bask in 1987 nostalgia, etc.  That didn't happen.   IMO their typical bag of tricks PR wise to distract and or win over fans -- didn't work this time.  

 

With that in mind, I got no feel for how they'd react to a bad season or one where they fall short.  Blow it all up?  T

 

The biggest story over the next 4 months, to me, will be keeping a close eye on the Allen /Snyder romance

 

Because if the team falls on its face this year, i just dont see BA sticking around.  However sources at Redskins Park continue to say those two are as tight as ever.  So will be some drama IMO.

 

Question is, where does Snyder go next?  To me, thats been the real reason hes been so close to Allen.  Even a sociopathic egomaniac like Snyder has to realize if he fires ANOTHER personnel guy, then maybe he has to look in the mirror and realize he is a loser.  I dont think Snyder is ready or willing to do that.  Hence the long running bromance

 

Best thing for this franchise would be for Danny to stop caring.  Stop going to games, quit hanging in the locker room, just set an annual budget for your football operations, hand it over to an executive, and ask for quarterly business reviews.  Just **** off already, Danny  /dream

[XxSpearheadxX]

36 minutes ago, zoony said:

Post ommitted

This is true to an extent, New Journalism, Gonzo journalism definitely blur the lines between an editorial piece and hard news journalism. I personally think that the line should be made clearer. That being said sports writing isn't exactly political and world news its just for fun, so I don't mind the blurring of the lines. 

 

I still like when opinion is written as an opinion piece and journalism is a record of events and hard work and investigation of facts. 

[Jacoby66forHOF]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

 

The biggest story over the next 4 months, to me, will be keeping a close eye on the Allen /Snyder romance

 

Because if the team falls on its face this year, i just dont see BA sticking around.  However sources at Redskins Park continue to say those two are as tight as ever.  So will be some drama IMO.

 

Question is, where does Snyder go next?  To me, thats been the real reason hes been so close to Allen.  Even a sociopathic egomaniac like Snyder has to realize if he fires ANOTHER personnel guy, then maybe he has to look in the mirror and realize he is a loser.  I dont think Snyder is ready or willing to do that.  Hence the long running bromance

 

Best thing for this franchise would be for Danny to stop caring.  Stop going to games, quit hanging in the locker room, just set an annual budget for your football operations, hand it over to an executive, and ask for quarterly business reviews.  Just **** off already, Danny  /dream

 

McCloughin said it best when he described Allen in one word, Politician.  And what item at the top of Allen's "to-do" list from Snyder needs a Politician's touch?  A new stadium.  

 

So long as the new stadium situation remains unresolved Allen's job is safe, IMO.  Winning off the field if you will.  

[Rskins91]

I think the animosity of most the fans here are pretty reasonable. There's a bit of trepidation about this team based on the preseason hiccups, combined with the Su'a press and the Sudfeld the spy story. But I think most of this is truly overthinking. We've been missing football for so long, we look for whatever detail of scrap we can overanlyze to shreds.

 

What I know is this: the Redskins finished with back to back winning seasons since I was 7 years old. We have a QB who is at the top half of the league, and an improved defense that should be better. We open at home against a team we've beaten 5 straight times; and Kirk has impeccilbe numbers against Philly (minus Malcolm Jenkins pick 6's). If we go out there and beat the Eagles, all this anxiety and nerves go away. 

 

Just go out out there and win

[Califan007 The Constipated]

14 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

This is true to an extent, New Journalism, Gonzo journalism definitely blur the lines between an editorial piece and hard news journalism. I personally think that the line should be made clearer. That being said sports writing isn't exactly political and world news its just for fun, so I don't mind the blurring of the lines. 

 

I still like when opinion is written as an opinion piece and journalism is a record of events and hard work and investigation of facts. 

 

I had an interaction with Chris Russell once that kinda speaks to this topic:

 

If you guys recall, there were a few Skins fans here on ES who attended a "meet and greet" type of thing with Gruden and Allen (one person met with Gruden, the other person met with Allen). Both people relayed to us in their posts that, among other things, Gruden and Allen both said that they had given Cousins and his camp a new offer and were waiting to hear back from them.

 

Within 24 hours of those posts Keim tweeted that the last offer the Skins had given Cousins was the one he heard about months ago that said $20M/yr. Russell retweeted it, I think. I responded to Russell's tweet (which also had me responding to Keim as well since it was his tweet), and said that according to  some attendees at the Skins Meet & Greet, they gave Cousins a new offer and are waiting for a response.

 

Keim said he trusted his source. Russell said he heard about that, but he also trusts Keim's source more than what Allen says, with some sarcastic response like "Yeah, Allen would have no reason to lie, would he...like ticket sales, which is what those meet and greets are for" (words to that effect). I said to both that sources aren't videotape and could have their own agendas as well, but that the main point is that if you knew Allen and Gruden both said a new offer had been presented to Cousins, shouldn't you at LEAST report that fact instead of deciding since you don't believe they're telling the truth it doesn't need to be mentioned. Let  your readers decide what to think of it instead of omitting it.

 

Neither one responded to me after that.....guess what? Allen and Gruden were indeed being truthful, as we have now found out the Skins did give Cousins a new offer and were waiting for a counter offer. But Russell and Keim weren't being journalists, they were writing opinion pieces. Their main goal wasn't to give their readers whatever facts they came across on the topic, it was to present and back up their perspective only. Which is fine, to be honest...but like I said, I think we as fans/readers need to remember this (which was my earlier point), and not act like their opinion pieces are well researched and objective journalism.

[zCommander]

In a nut shell.... Dan will accept what he has put on the field! 

[skins4eva]

Brewer is an excellent writer--really talented.  I enjoy his pieces.  As usual, there's an undercurrent of negativity with this team that makes it tough to be optimistic.  I also can't shed that nagging sense that our coaching staff really isn't up to the task.  With a better staff, I thought we would have been a playoff team last year.  Gruden seems like a nice enough guy, but I've always wondered whether the mental elevator goes all the way to the top with him.  He seems like one of the many NFL coordinators (see Norv Turner) who gets promoted one level above his competency.  Why we are still screwing around with the 3-4 without a real NT after all these years is a mystery.  How any successful head coach doesn't even take an interest in the defensive schematics is beyond me: it's indicative of a head coach who still has a coordinator mindset.  

 

Suffice it to say, I'm not that optimistic about the season, and nothing I saw in preseason makes me think we are coming out of the gate as world beaters.  Perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised, but I don't think so.  Just another year of mediocrity in the never ending reign of Danny the Great. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, zoony said:

 

Question is, where does Snyder go next?  To me, thats been the real reason hes been so close to Allen.  Even a sociopathic egomaniac like Snyder has to realize if he fires ANOTHER personnel guy, then maybe he has to look in the mirror and realize he is a loser.  I dont think Snyder is ready or willing to do that.  Hence the long running bromance

 

Best thing for this franchise would be for Danny to stop caring.  Stop going to games, quit hanging in the locker room, just set an annual budget for your football operations, hand it over to an executive, and ask for quarterly business reviews.  Just **** off already, Danny  /dream

 

Kirk's story for me is the kicker that things haven't changed much -- the way its been handled and reported is so vintage strange and thereby sadly par for the course for this organization.  Look at other franchises:  Lions say we will do whatever we can to lock in our franchise QB.  And they do it.  Ditto Carr and the rest of the NFL.  It's simple.

 

 With the Redskins you get the new "personnel" top chief running Kirk down with the top 15 comment.  We hear about how the tone has improved in the negotiation and is now good (after a period where the tone clearly wasn't that hot -- how can it improve and be finally good if it was good the whole time?)  We got a press release from the team president calling out Kirk's agent and Kirk in essence as being greedy (trying to turn the fan base against him) along with promoting the low ball offer as if its something to be proud of.    And we wonder why guys like Keim say that Kirk wouldn't sign in part because he's not sure about this FO and the future of the team.

 

 Albert Breer goes on about after talking to Kirk's camp that he senses they are upset that the press release is a sign that the same old same old is going on with the FO (after hoping that their new nicer stance with him was here to stay) and in turn they want to see if they can to stick to the nicer tone once the team goes through some real stress during the season.

 

And this is before me getting into all the speculation back story from reporters about how things like Bruce/Dan's feelings about Shanny, RG3, Kirk's sexiness as for being a marketable player, dislike of Kirk's agent -- all were part of the soup of the contract mess. 

 

To me regardless of where people fall about Kirk -- still the way they handled the whole situation IMO is telling.  But as for Dan, he does his stuff in the shadows.  He avoids the spotlight.  The opposite of Jerry Jones.  So you aren't going to nail him on direct quotes.  

 

So I know for a few people it turns into "prove it".   And that this is all speculation.  And I agree I'd bet some of the back story is wrong or embellished.  And reporters aren't going to get all of their behind the scenes stuff right.  In the reporters defense, its tough to cover stories when the GM and owner barely ever talks to the media and presents their side directly.  So I got really no sympathy for either Dan/Bruce on that count.   If that's how they are going to play ball, then it comes with the turf.   

 

But at the same time, its tough for me to believe that the majority of stories and every twist and turn is wrong. And they are coming from both local and national beat guys saying they were talking to both sides.   Regardless, because even if you just judge how it was handled by direct actions without a single editorial or backstory explanation -- its IMO strange and dysfunctional looking in its own right.  

 

Personally, I don't think Dan is a bad guy.  He does a lot of good things in the community.   But the one common thread in just about every Dan story is the dude is like a wound up emotional fan.  He's like one of us on the board. He'd hit it well it sounds like to the game threads we got going.   I do buy that the dude really really wants to win.  But I don't think he's smart about it.  He puts his finger prints on it.   And he keeps making the same mistakes. 

 

Even the guys who swear by him like Gibbs give away that he's hands on.  I recall a Gibbs story where he joked about how Dan called him one night and said lets go get Lance Briggs.  Gibbs also shared a story about how Dan called him after watching Minny playing Monday night and gave him his scouting report.  Gibbs told both stories affectionately but the message in that is clear, the dude likes to get himself in the mix.  So yeah it surprises me that some for example don't believe Shanny when he goes that Dan was the one who wanted McNabb or that Dan came into his office and said lets go get Randy Moss.  Yeah we don't know if its true but we've heard stories like this about every coaching staff or close enough once they left.  They are all lying?

 

If none of this is true and Dan is just some poor misunderstood guy who is oddly sold out by coach after coach who for some reason when they come to the Redskins their personality just changes and then they become oddly embittered and just make up stories about the owner -- then what does that say about Dan's hiring process?   Either he does mingle with the team and odd things happen or he hires a series of bad people who are odd.    In another thread, some debated that the Redskins just do it different.  And different is good.  I agree about the different part.  But its an "odd" different IMO.  And no not a good version of odd. 

[88Comrade2000]

Actually they will be worse and Dan will start over again.