88Comrade2000 Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 25 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Biden Warren and this is a lock. No. Biden and a younger black female, like stacey abrams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: White. /sarcasm She isn’t great at debating. She is another moderate. Had one good showing but meh otherwise. She doesn’t bring anything to the ticket. She’s extremely popular in the midwest and doesn’t freak out swing voters. As noted, if MI, WI and PA flip back to blue, Biden wins. She’d only have to debate Pence, who isn’t good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: ... his campaign needs excitement to get dems to the polls. She brings excitement. We talking about the same person? She’s smart, extremely qualified, detailed, and (perhaps most importantly given our current leadership) competent. Warren brings a lot of good things, but I wouldn’t say excitement is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I think you already have those states with Biden was the head of the ticket, right? Probably, but probably isn’t good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Just now, PleaseBlitz said: Probably, but probably isn’t good enough. Man, tough questions: double down on the base that actually votes or acknowledge that moderates arent the whole base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 It is so strange for me that I live in a time where this thought crossed my mind, but... Klobuchar seems generally nice and pleasant... I think red state moderates would be bothered when the president inevitably insults her and calls her names. I think Warren would be a lot like Hillary, in that most red state moderates do not like her already. So it would be a tradeoff of potential swing voters vs increasing enthusiasm among the progressive base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, bearrock said: Damn, I still cringe about Kaine's performance in that debate. It would be so satisfying to have Warren go off on the litany of incompetence by the Trump admin against Pence. I wish they could just show Pence contradicting himself every time he lies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 I was curious so I checked out an actual political prediction (betting) market. Pretty close to my list but I missed Gretchen Whitmer, Michigan’s gov. She also falls into the Klobuchar/Duckworth mold of midwest moderates. Not pictured at the bottom (not joiking) is Hillary Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 I’d prefer Warren but it’s gonna be Harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 I didn't see the debate, but saw some highlights. When Biden said he would appoint the first black woman to the SC, he set himself up to have more options for VP. I can see the Senator from Nevada, Cortez Masto, being the pick. The only concern would be hanging on to that Senate seat in a special election but otherwise a pick like that makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 LOL at people who still cling to thinking the winning strategy is wining over "swing voters". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, visionary said: If Warren endorses Biden publicly, before Bernie drops out, it may tarnish her future with the left and make it harder to bring them on board in the general.... She's smart af. No way she endorses until the general. Hold those Queens, girlfriend. I'm counting on you to be smarter than the boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Destino said: We talking about the same person? She’s smart, extremely qualified, detailed, and (perhaps most importantly given our current leadership) competent. Warren brings a lot of good things, but I wouldn’t say excitement is one of them. Well, it excites me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said: LOL at people who still cling to thinking the winning strategy is wining over "swing voters". I think the winning strategy is DONT tear down the establishment as it’s barely standing as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoneMessedUp Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 31 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said: LOL at people who still cling to thinking the winning strategy is wining over "swing voters". Yep, better to count on young progressives turning out in huge numbers, like they always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 31 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said: LOL at people who still cling to thinking the winning strategy is wining over "swing voters". Kinda sounds like the impossible strategy floated by Trump in 2016. Lol, what a moronic idea that was. He didn't get any swing voters, just a bunch of people in swing states that voted for Obama twice, then voted for Trump. But they were not swing voters, just a bunch of racists who wouldn't vote for Hillary... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Yep, better to count on young progressives turning out in huge numbers, like they always do. Nice straw man. But no, last time the Dems picked a moderate candidate to win swing voters. She picked a moderate running mate to win swing voters. She ran campaign ads designed to win swing voters. Her messaging was all designed to win swing voters. Her strategy in each debate was to win swing voters. The result wasn't winning swing voters. It was that the youth turnout was down. Black turnout was down. Hispanic turnout was down. Progressive turnout was down. The number of democratic leaning voters who want third party was way up. That plan was F-ing BRILLIANT. We should definitely do it again!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 You can’t be so stupid to think that Hillary Clinton = Joe Biden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 16 minutes ago, Nerm said: Kinda sounds like the impossible strategy floated by Trump in 2016. Lol, what a moronic idea that was. He didn't get any swing voters, just a bunch of people in swing states that voted for Obama twice, then voted for Trump. But they were not swing voters, just a bunch of racists who wouldn't vote for Hillary... right? Ah yes, the moderate Trump and his fawning appeals to swing voters. Forgot about that. But yeah, voters who went for Obama and then Trump will definitely be making their 2020 decisions on whether Je Biden's VP pick is 5% too liberal or not. Because those people are all about ideological minutiae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said: Nice straw man. But no, last time the Dems picked a moderate candidate to win swing voters. She picked a moderate running mate to win swing voters. She ran campaign ads designed to win swing voters. Her messaging was all designed to win swing voters. Her strategy in each debate was to win swing voters. The result wasn't winning swing voters. It was that the youth turnout was down. Black turnout was down. Hispanic turnout was down. Progressive turnout was down. The number of democratic leaning voters who want third party was way up. That plan was F-ing BRILLIANT. We should definitely do it again!!! It’s not a strawman, it’s an accurate assessment of the 2020 race. 1. It’s not 2016. I understand the tendency for people to want to fight the last war, but kind of a lot has changed. All of the states full of swing voters that narrowly went to Trump in 2016 appear to have rethought it and have gone heavily Democrat in every election since (but not far left-wingers). And they don’t like Bernie and, presumably, they don’t like very progressive policies. Look at the Michigan primary. Biden, the moderate, won every demographic except young white people and turnout was 30% higher than it had ever been. Biden won every single county in a state that Bernie won in 2016. The increase in turnout was not fueled by progressives or young people, like, at all. Which is why Bernie got destroyed even though he had to win it and applied his vast resources accordingly. 2. Certainly Biden can do much better than Hillary in reaching out to the left wing of the party. Hell, he’s already done more in just the last 2 weeks. But the election is going to be won or lost in Michigan, PA, WI, AZ, FL, and NC, states with way more moderate swing voters than progressives, and the progressives have so far proven that they won’t even show up for Bernie. Plus you gotta figure there are a lot of moderates that took a flyer on Trump hoping he’d grow into the job and now see that he’s a ****ing imbecile he hasn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 59 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said: Ah yes, the moderate Trump and his fawning appeals to swing voters. Forgot about that. But yeah, voters who went for Obama and then Trump will definitely be making their 2020 decisions on whether Je Biden's VP pick is 5% too liberal or not. Because those people are all about ideological minutiae. Hey, I hate Trump, and will very likely support Biden. But if you think the way to win the vote is to go far left of the electorate, good luck with that. And if you think Clinton campaigned to win moderates, the election results should clarify that for you. I loved seeing that excuse for why GW Bush won two elections. The problem was, we didn't go far enough to the left, so the voters decided to pick the person on the right. The voters wanted people way more liberal, but voted conservative as a protest against the Democrats for not being liberal enough. You have to exist in such a partisan bubble to think that way, in my opinion. I have to admit, I could be very wrong about this stuff. No offense intended if I come across as an ass. I just know a lot of people who voted for the guy, and I believe the farther left Democrats go, the more likely Trump Republicans and independents will turn out in large numbers. I don't want to see that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 23 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: It’s not a strawman, it’s an accurate assessment of the 2020 race. 1. It’s not 2016. I understand the tendency for people to want to fight the last war, but kind of a lot has changed. All of the states full of swing voters that narrowly went to Trump in 2016 appear to have rethought it and have gone heavily Democrat in every election since (but not far left-wingers). And they don’t like Bernie and, presumably, they don’t like very progressive policies. Look at the Michigan primary. Biden, the moderate, won every demographic except young white people and turnout was 30% higher than it had ever been. Biden won every single county in a state that Bernie won in 2016. The increase in turnout was not fueled by progressives or young people, like, at all. Which is why Bernie got destroyed even though he had to win it and applied his vast resources accordingly. 2. Certainly Biden can do much better than Hillary in reaching out to the left wing of the party. Hell, he’s already done more in just the last 2 weeks. But the election is going to be won or lost in Michigan, PA, WI, AZ, FL, and NC, states with way more moderate swing voters than progressives, and the progressives have so far proven that they won’t even show up for Bernie. Plus you gotta figure there are a lot of moderates that took a flyer on Trump hoping he’d grow into the job and now see that he’s a ****ing imbecile he hasn’t. LOL. Yes, inventing an argument like "count on young progressives turning out in huge numbers" to kick down is basically the textbook definition of a straw man. The idea of holding up what somebody does in a Democratic Primary as proof of what they will do with swing voters is ironic silliness at best. Since you talk as if Hillary losing Michigan in the primary and then the general election is the be-all end-all, why don't you go look up all the other swing states from 2016 and see how that argument hods up. You can call it "fighting the last war" all you want. The fact is the argument you're advancing lost last time, and in the mid-term the Dems took back control precisely by turning out their base in massive numbers. What you're talking about is the exact thinking that powered the nominations of Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and Al Gore, and which argued against Barack Obama and Bill Clinton. But you seem to want to pretend it's forward thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Hillary didn’t lose the working class because she wasn’t progressive enough, she lost them because her plan for lost jobs was essentially “too damn bad.” She was still all in on unrestricted free trade, with all its rising tide lifts all boats nonsense, as were most on both sides of the aisle back then. Turns out, that position was a loser. Trump and Bernie both had it right. Hillary refused to look at the tea leaves. There was more to it than this, but the hubris it takes to offer these people nothing and expect their support captures the failings of Hillary’s campaign well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said: You can call it "fighting the last war" all you want. The fact is the argument you're advancing lost last time, and in the mid-term the Dems took back control precisely by turning out their base in massive numbers. What you're talking about is the exact thinking that powered the nominations of Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and Al Gore, and which argued against Barack Obama and Bill Clinton. But you seem to want to pretend it's forward thinking. Actually they took control by turning out moderates and conservatives in the suburbs to vote for moderate democrats in the house in previously Republican areas. The Senate and governorships were a bit more confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.