The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2684683-kirk-cousins-has-earned-redskins-money-despite-missing-the-playofs

 

"I get it, Washington Redskins fans. You feel the need to blame somebody, and in this day and age, the quarterback is usually that guy. He's either the hero or the patsy, with no middle ground. But Kirk Cousins shouldn't be a hero or a patsy. He's just a good quarterback on a good team that would be a heck of a lot worse without him."

"While this loss and the final month of the season will rightly leave a bad taste in many mouths, it's important to remember Cousins is only completing his second full season as a starter. By all indications, he's yet to reach his potential."

 

How dare you try to bring logic to illogical thread!!! 

[clskinsfan]

Just now, purbeast said:

What are you talking about?  Where did I compare Kirk to Peyton?

 

He said this...

 

 

 

 

And I showed him a video of a top 5 QB who threw a bone headed pick on the final drive.

 

And you are missing the entire point of my post. It is a REPETITIVE issue with Cousins. Always has been. He has limited the dumb mistakes over the past year and a half. But he still has game killing errors in big games. He had 3 chances to secure us a playoff spot over the past month. And failed miserably in each instance. He is what he is. A middle of the pack starter in this league. He doesnt deserve to be paid like a top 3 guy. Period. He will get paid that by someone for sure. I am not sure I want us to be the ones that do it though. And to your point. You did compare Cousins making a mistake to Manning by posting that video. Manning can make mistakes. He earned it. Cousins has not.

[purbeast]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

And you are missing the entire point of my post. It is a REPETITIVE issue with Cousins. Always has been. He has limited the dumb mistakes over the past year and a half. But he still has game killing errors in big games. He had 3 chances to secure us a playoff spot over the past month. And failed miserably in each instance. He is what he is. A middle of the pack starter in this league. He doesnt deserve to be paid like a top 3 guy. Period. He will get paid that by someone for sure. I am not sure I want us to be the ones that do it though. And to your point. You did compare Cousins making a mistake to Manning by posting that video. Manning can make mistakes. He earned it. Cousins has not.

So you're saying you want Kirk to be a mistake free perfect quarterback after only 2 seasons as a starter.

 

That sounds realistic.

[Taylor703]

So we've reached the point where Kirk is above being blamed. He **** the bed repeatedly in games we needed. I don't care what bleacherreport says, he is absolutely part of the reason this team is not in the playoffs. Saying otherwise proves you haven't watched this team. 

Just now, purbeast said:

So you're saying you want Kirk to be a mistake free perfect quarterback after only 2 seasons as a starter.

 

That sounds realistic.

Patiently waiting for "he's still basically a rookie"...

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Just now, purbeast said:

So you're saying you want Kirk to be a mistake free perfect quarterback after only 2 seasons as a starter.

 

That sounds realistic.

Yep.

 

We're in RG3 level delusion mode.

 

Thankfully, at least Kirk is a good player. But damn guys, the excuses get ****ing old

[JSSkinz]

What we really need is to understand what giving him $20+ mil a year will do to our chances of building a Superbowl team.

 

If it won't affect our ability to build the team then lets get him signed, if it will then its a tough decision.

 

I think the other thing people aren't thinking about is will Scott pay him the money, if SM wouldn't give him $20 mil after last season then why would he give him that much or more after this season?  Did KC improve as a player?

 

In his last 5 games of this season he had 5 passing Td's and 5 Int's.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

And history shows you rarely win after signing a QB to a big money deal

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, purbeast said:

So you're saying you want Kirk to be a mistake free perfect quarterback after only 2 seasons as a starter.

 

That sounds realistic.

 

I just want him to WIN ONE BIG GAME. Any big game. I am tired of watching him make the same stupid bone headed mistakes over and over again when a big game is on the line. I am sick of seeing him look like a deer in headlights in EVERY big game. You wanna get paid like a top 3 QB. Then dont go 2-11 against teams with 9+ wins. 

[Llevron]

15 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

"I get it, Washington Redskins fans. You feel the need to blame somebody, and in this day and age, the quarterback is usually that guy. He's either the hero or the patsy, with no middle ground. But Kirk Cousins shouldn't be a hero or a patsy. He's just a good quarterback on a good team that would be a heck of a lot worse without him."

"While this loss and the final month of the season will rightly leave a bad taste in many mouths, it's important to remember Cousins is only completing his second full season as a starter. By all indications, he's yet to reach his potential."

 

When we have to use bleacher report as a source for anything you had to pretty much admit its......questionable at best. 

[mistertim]

41 minutes ago, carex said:

 

you do realize there is significant difference between the 20s and in the redzone right?  I mean basically you see plays that don't exist anywhere else on the field used in that area and frankly when the Skins use some of those don't exist plays they're frequently bad choices

So what? Does that excuse Kirk's poor play and terrible completion percentage in the red zone?

[purbeast]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

I just want him to WIN ONE BIG GAME. Any big game. I am tired of watching him make the same stupid bone headed mistakes over and over again when a big game is on the line. I am sick of seeing him look like a deer in headlights in EVERY big game. You wanna get paid like a top 3 QB. Then dont go 2-11 against teams with 9+ wins. 

Did you not watch the Bears game?  I mean they HAD to win that game in order to have a shot at the playoffs, and they scored over 40 points.  

 

Did you watch the Eagles game last year that they had to win to get into the playoffs and the offense scored 38 points?

 

Some of you sure have some selective memories.

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

And you are missing the entire point of my post. It is a REPETITIVE issue with Cousins. Always has been. He has limited the dumb mistakes over the past year and a half. But he still has game killing errors in big games. He had 3 chances to secure us a playoff spot over the past month. And failed miserably in each instance. He is what he is. A middle of the pack starter in this league. He doesnt deserve to be paid like a top 3 guy. Period. He will get paid that by someone for sure. I am not sure I want us to be the ones that do it though. And to your point. You did compare Cousins making a mistake to Manning by posting that video. Manning can make mistakes. He earned it. Cousins has not.

 

1. The market will dictate what he gets paid. So let's get that out of the way. Why do you even care what he gets paid? Are you paying him from your wallet? See this is how I look at business transactions. If it works out great and if it doesn't we just wait another 20+ years I guess or kidnap Brady and clone him. 

 

2. So you get better guys around him who can hold a defender a second longer so he can throw without being rushed. 

 

3. Your so called "he has earned it QB" has made lots of bone headed throws under pressure. Every QB no matter how elite has done that. Brady lost to the great Giants D in a SB once. See how that works. 

 

You have a good QB and you build around him which includes the D and the special teams and better play calling/coaching. End of story. 

 

 

[mistertim]

40 minutes ago, carex said:

 

Kirks's been pretty good about getting them in between the 20-30 which suggests to me play calling has been a problem

So we're basically back to "When Kirk does well between the 20s, Kirk is great. When Kirk plays awful in the red zone it's because of <insert various excuses>"

[clskinsfan]

Just now, purbeast said:

Did you not watch the Bears game?  I mean they HAD to win that game in order to have a shot at the playoffs, and they scored over 40 points.  

 

Did you watch the Eagles game last year that they had to win to get into the playoffs and the offense scored 38 points?

 

Some of you sure have some selective memories.

Both of those teams are garbage. Talk about being selective. Funny how you selected to ignore my stats about his record against winning teams. 

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Did you not watch the Bears game?  I mean they HAD to win that game in order to have a shot at the playoffs, and they scored over 40 points.  

 

Did you watch the Eagles game last year that they had to win to get into the playoffs and the offense scored 38 points?

 

Some of you sure have some selective memories.

Dude, the Bears were ****ing terrible. We had 5 INTs and STILL only scored 13 points off of the turnovers.

[bobandweave]

Tagging him again won't hurt any season except this one and avoids

 

1. Long term consequences on the team on the cap

 

2. Having to start that worthless backup McCoy or overpay for some pos free agent like Fitzpatrick

 

And it gives him another chance to show he can be a winner in this league which none of us knows if he's the next Cutler or the next Brady now. Would you want to tie yourself to Jay Cutler long term? Hell no

[srtman04]

All I know is....we are a HELL of alot worse team without Kirk.  We would easily be a 2-4 win team at best with this crappy defense and if we didn't have Kirk Cousins.  

[spjunkies]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Both of those teams are garbage. Talk about being selective. Funny how you selected to ignore my stats about his record against winning teams. 

 

Exactly, talk to me when we don't get smacked around by teams like North Carolina.

[bobandweave]

3 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Did you not watch the Bears game?  I mean they HAD to win that game in order to have a shot at the playoffs, and they scored over 40 points.  

 

Did you watch the Eagles game last year that they had to win to get into the playoffs and the offense scored 38 points?

 

Some of you sure have some selective memories.

 

Those teams are terrible and those aren't playoff games

[purbeast]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Both of those teams are garbage. Talk about being selective. Funny how you selected to ignore my stats about his record against winning teams. 

The Redskins don't make their schedule, they play the teams infront of them.  No matter who they played, those were "big games" in the sense that they were must wins and they won the game.

 

I didn't ignore your stats about winning teams.  I wasn't even addressing that point.

 

You said you want to see him win at least one big game and I pointed out 2 big games, and you dismiss them because of the other teams records?  Okay..

[DM72]

5 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Did you not watch the Bears game?  I mean they HAD to win that game in order to have a shot at the playoffs, and they scored over 40 points.  

 

Did you watch the Eagles game last year that they had to win to get into the playoffs and the offense scored 38 points?

 

Some of you sure have some selective memories.

 

Did you actually type that with a straight face? 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

1. The market will dictate what he gets paid. So let's get that out of the way. Why do you even care what he gets paid? Are you paying him from your wallet? See this is how I look at business transactions. If it works out great and if it doesn't we just wait another 20+ years I guess or kidnap Brady and clone him. 

 

2. So you get better guys around him who can hold a defender a second longer so he can throw without being rushed. 

 

3. Your so called "he has earned it QB" has made lots of bone headed throws under pressure. Every QB no matter how elite has done that. Brady lost to the great Giants D in a SB once. See how that works. 

 

You have a good QB and you build around him which includes the D and the special teams and better play calling/coaching. End of story. 

 

 

The OL has protected Kirk pretty well this year. Every QB is going to have to deal with pressure sometimes from good defenses who like to blitz, etc and the best QBs make the most of it and make them pay. Kirk just can't seem to deal with it and hardly ever makes a defense pay for blitzing. He gets rattled and flustered easily by pressure and can't seem to overcome that and also loses his pocket presence with a quickness. And he's very robotic so once he gets thrown off his game he seems to have a very hard time getting back on it. Add to that that he seems pretty bad at improvising and it's not a good recipe.

 

And please stop comparing anything about Kirk Cousins to anything about Peyton Manning. One is one of the greatest QBs of all time and the other is a middle of the road starter.

[clskinsfan]

5 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

1. The market will dictate what he gets paid. So let's get that out of the way. Why do you even care what he gets paid? Are you paying him from your wallet? See this is how I look at business transactions. If it works out great and if it doesn't we just wait another 20+ years I guess or kidnap Brady and clone him. . 

 

 

Why do I care? Because we have a horrid center of our defense. And spending 25 million of our cap on Cousins COULD limit what we can do to fix that issue. I could care less about the money itself. Like you said it is not my money. But when it effects the rest of the team I do care. And so should you.

[goskins10]

8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

When we have to use bleacher report as a source for anything you had to pretty much admit its......questionable at best. 

 

I did not use it as a "source". I said it sums up my thoughts. And it does. Letting Kirk go just makes no sense on any kind of rational level.

[KingGibbs]

Again. Those of you willing to let Kirk walk have failed to name a viable and better replacement. Addition by subtraction is not an option here. Come up with a solution. You can't.