Who stays? Garcon or DJax???

[William Barbour]

Both can't be an option. There is no way that Scot keeps 2 30+ WR at 10mil a piece while he's drafting WRs. 

 

I say you keep Garcon if it was my team, but since we don't use the run with a back like Kelley. We might have to keep Djax. 

[kost203]

Both can be an option. Depends on how much and how many years. As well as, if they both want to be here and win. Money will eventually be used towards defense. 

[arftech]

You keep DJax.  Nobody on that roster provides what DJax offers...the threat of making game changing plays at anytime.  That rare breed of player don't fall off trees.  Garcon is nice but we may have two of those types of receivers already on the team but a replacement for DJax not so much.

 

Hail Em Up!

[Playaction2Sanders]

47 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Neither. We don't need to a pend multi millions on 700 yard possession receivers or guys who just go deep.

 

We could just draft a young kid and hope he doesn't have injury problems.. Oh wait......

[petey hodge]

Can we trade both for the entire Arizona Cardinals defense?

[arftech]

51 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Neither. We don't need to a pend multi millions on 700 yard possession receivers or guys who just go deep.

Have you cleared that point of view with the quarterback?

 

Hail Em Up!

[Bigmuss1]

I follow DJax on Instagram, it is hilarious to read all the desperate Iggle fans begging him to come back.  I'm truly not worried about DJax going back to Philly, why would he go to that trash ball team at this point in his career.  I'm more concrete about a true contender team taking him away.  We will see, I'll be happy if he stays and indifferent if he goes.  

[benskins26]

I flip flop on this weekly seemingly. I really have no idea. I think it depends on cost- garçon at 3 yrs/15 mil sounds much better than Jackson at 4/40 or whatever he's gonna demand. (I have no idea if these are realistic numbers, just guesses- though I did read somewhere that djax will be 10 a year)

 

i also would add- I feel like as a rising contender, we may get a loyalty discount from garçon, but highly doubt that from Jackson. May be way off though. 

[LaxBuddy21]

If you can't keep both, you let Jackson walk. The reliable receiver on 3rd down is more important than the long touchdown every third game. You have Crowder and you hope Doctson pans out or you draft a late round receiver after addressing the defense. 

[benskins26]

4 minutes ago, Bigmuss1 said:

I follow DJax on Instagram, it is hilarious to read all the desperate Iggle fans begging him to come back.  I'm truly not worried about DJax going back to Philly, why would he go to that trash ball team at this point in his career.  I'm more concrete about a true contender team taking him away.  We will see, I'll be happy if he stays and indifferent if he goes.  

 

I feel like I've been arguing with these guys for weeks. They think that his FA talk bs means Eagles for sure. 1) that team is getting younger- highly doubt they want to pay 10 a year for a 30 yo. They're more than a couple years away.

2) why would he say, no, I wouldn't go there? He's counting on utilizing them as leverage. 

[TSO]

Great topic... incredibly intriguing to say the least. 

 

I don't know if there has been a question regarding the Skins I've been more back and forth on than this one. 

 

Garcon has been a favorite of mine since 2012. Only Alfred Morris was up there with him, in my mind, in terms of the type of personality I really get a kick out of rooting for.

 

But if you asked me about this the first half of last season? It would've been DJax hands down, even with his injury. Heck, I was ready to see Garcon take less snaps, let alone re-sign him. I thought he had lost any ability to consistently separate and I could never understand why he seemingly had the worst "jumps" ever, especially on deep balls, lol.  

 

But then the second half of the season started and Kirk started finding him more. And he was so clutch. So, so clutch. Can't even remember how many big time third downs he'd catch on our way to the playoffs. Just like the one on 4th down today. Never mind all the other aspects of his game, be it run blocking, general physicality, catching in traffic, etc... 

 

As for DJax? The way he opens up the underneath stuff for guys like Reed and Crowder changes the entire offense. Garcon, too. The way he dictates coverage and makes it easier for Kirk to identify the defense. He's definitely more one-dimensional, but he's elite at that dimension. And it's incredibly hard to find someone who can do what he does. Out of this world deep ball tracking skills.  

 

So Garcon is the more well-rounded player, super tough/durable and always available, but not an elite guy and not as difficult to replace. He'll likely command a mid-tier contract.

 

DJax is more one-dimensional, but it's an elite dimension that changes the entire offense. Will likely miss multiple games during any given season. He'll likely command an expensive contract.

 

If we can figure out how to keep both without destroying our cap, I'll do back flips. That's my obvious preference. I really don't know which way I lean, though.

 

If we're to take everything Scot has said about the topic, Djax is the elite blue chip guy whereas Garcon is the solid red chip guy that's necessary to have. That'll likely be how the team approaches re-signing them. I think it'll be tougher to re-sign DJax, as someone might go nuts in Free Agency and give him way too much. Garcon should be manageable.  

 

Here are Scot's words on them both (bolded emphasis mine). On Garcon being a red: 

 

Quote

B/R: Yeah, some teams use black and purple as well.

SM: Yeah. So, if you're lucky, you have four or five blues, and hopefully one of those is your quarterback. If you have another 30 who are reds, starters, solid backups, core special teams guys, then you have a chance. That's how you build your roster. That's how you build a team. That comes from this and this (points to his head and heart). It's not about speed guys and the ESPN guy, the prettiest guy running around making plays. It's a football player. You get enough football players, they're going to fight together.

B/R: It's Joe Jurevicius.

SM: No doubt. That's exactly what you're talking about. Pierre Garcon is a great example. The guy shows up every day and does his job. He doesn't say much. Nobody talks about him, but he goes out on Sunday and helps us win a game.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2629584-scot-mccloughan-qa-the-philosophy-and-tools-of-a-successful-nfl-gm  

 

On DJax being a blue: 

 

Quote

Chris Cooley:  How many more “Reds” do you need to be “Great?”

Scot McCloughan:   I think we added probably ten this year…. Hopefully, another ten.  And then we’ll be solid.  Because the “Red” is not just a quality starter, but it’s depth.  You’re going to have injuries, like we’ve already had now, and we had last year.  But that’s part of the business. It’s always a work in progress.

Chris Cooley:  Who are your Blues?

Scot McCloughan:  Trent Williams, DeSean Jackson, Kirk Cousins, there are a couple more.  The Blues are gonna come in hopefully through the draft process.  Like Frank Gore, we took in the third round back in San Francisco. At first he was a Red. Then all of a sudden, “Boom! Boom! Boom!”   Three years later, he’s a Blue.  Patrick Willis coming in.   Joe Staley- type guys. We have some good football players here and we’ve got a quality roster now.

Kevin Sheehan:  OK.  So you said Trent Williams, DeSean Jackson and Kirk are your Blues. Elite players.

Scot McCloughan:  Well, I’ve got to throw in Josh Norman.

http://www.espn980.com/2016/07/29/audio-redskins-gm-scot-mccloughan-talks-blue-and-red-players-and-a-redskins-team-without-junior-galette/

 

 

[William Barbour]

1 hour ago, Vladimir L said:

Garcon hasnt done anything since RG3 first year and doesnt change games.

Is that you Djax agent?

[s0crates]

Art Monk or Gary Clark?

[Darth Tater]

The only answer that makes sense as a fan is both.  Thing is what Garcon does is much more replaceable than what Jackson does.  On the other hand, Garcon is much more reliable than DJAX.

[RemoveSnyder]

34 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

On Garcon being a red: 

On DJax being a blue: 

 

I know this was completely unintentional, but funny, somewhat freudian as it relates to "colors."

[NoCalMike]

Today showed that Jackson is more then just a set of wheels.  That pass by Cousins off a little.  If you see the route Jackson was running, the ideal spot was over the inside shoulder where Jackson would have caught it in stride and probably would have run to the end zone with little to no contact made on him at all.

 

Instead the throw sailed over his outside shoulder, and Jackson read the ball and made an adjustment to his speed and was also to hold onto the ball as the defender caught up and tried to give him a bump to jar the ball loose. 

 

Jackson maintains possession, regains his balance and still has the instant acceleration to Sunday stroll into the endzone.

 

If all i took was a set of wheels to be DeSean Jackson, then Aldrick Robinson, Anthony Armstrong, and Rashad Ross would all be NFL superstars right now with weekly highlight reels. 

 

Also, I'd say that with Jackson it's not just his max speed when he is racing down the field but his 1 step and go acceleration that truly makes him who he is.  It doesn't take him but more than a step or two at the most to seemingly hit that next gear.  It's insane.

[skins island connection]

I gotta say both, because Garcon is having a good year, he's not wilting away, and DJax still has the jets to do some damage, as he showed us against the Eagles.

But if they come up next year wanting to break the bank, then I'd say Garcon. If we could get the defense in order, these players would probably want to stay here because we would be one of the most dangerous teams in the league, and probably would settle for less money in trade for a SB berth.

[Renegade7]

45 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Great topic... incredibly intriguing to say the least. 

 

I don't know if there has been a question regarding the Skins I've been more back and forth on than this one. 

 

Thanks, and for most this year, I've been "keep Garcon, put DJax's $$$ to the defense".  What I do know is that if we work magic and get them both back, it won't be something ridiculous.  Looking at the way Scott is playing hardball with Cousins, we should almost expect one of them to be gone.  

 

That interesting seeing Scott's comments on chips.  I know Garcon isn't blue, but I find a hard time calling DJax blue right now.  When we first got him, absolutely.  If he was returning punts back for TDs plus his limited production this year, hard to argue not calling him blue, but he's rarely playing special teams. The talent is blue level, but is the production?

 

Right now we're at $15million with Garcon and DJax getting about $10 million each and Kirk already getting $20 million. Baker is making about $4million and is a free agent.  Something's gotta give here, especially if we're hoping Scott puts free agent money to defense.  

 

Truth is the correct answer is possibly neither, with as much help as the defense needs.  Doctson comes back healthy, they can find another receiver Kirk can trust, even if he isn't blue.

[justice98]

16 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

With the uncertainty hovering around Docston right now, it might be prudent to keep both for next season (i.e. a one-year deal).

Why would either one take a one year deal.

[justice98]

I would pick Garcon, if it's an either/or scenario.  

[TradeTheBeal!]

DeSean is the more impactful player.  I love Garçon, but the league is filled with guys just like him.  

 

DJax is a unicorn.  If I can get him for 3yr/30mil, I'm jumping all over that.

[bobandweave]

Garcon if one, he is turning into Anquan Boldin and if we used Boldin as a measuring stick says Garcon should have 3 more years of production in him.

 

DeSean was auditioning for his new team yesterday and looked great gaining over 100 receiving yards. With that said DeSean also reminded us all of the player he is when he danced around and generally being unprofessional before entering the end zone as well. He's likely gone and that's okay, we have Norman who if he can get paired with a halfway competent coach is enough to squash any worry about ever playing him again. 

[justice98]

13 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

If all i took was a set of wheels to be DeSean Jackson, then Aldrick Robinson, Anthony Armstrong, and Rashad Ross would all be NFL superstars right now with weekly highlight reels. 

 

Agreed.  I think the trick is, you have to invest in that kinda talent.   Philly invested in a 2nd round pick way back when. We went the late round/UDFA route for a long time trying to get a similar player with deep, game breaking speed.  

 

To your point, you can find good 40 times, but that x-factor DJax has requires more than just scanning the UDFA ranks. But we're not in a position to do that.

[drowland]

I think Garcon will be back.  He seems to like it here and I think the Skins will make him a fair offer before the start of FA which he'll take.  

 

DJax was released by Philly at an odd time which didn't allow him to to really test his value on the market like it would in March.  I think he'll want to test it and see what he can get.  He also seems pretty indifferent about being here.  

[Burgold]

I said both, but if I had to pick I'd probably go with Garcon. DJax is a game changer with his speed, but he seems to be only good for 2-3 catches a game and seems to be getting injured more and more often. I think age, injury, and other factors will come into play. His speed is incredible, but if he loses a step or two how valuable is he? Garcon (who I think they hoped would be replaced by Doctson) has really been clutch and made some pretty big plays in his own right, but if you need a play... I'd go to Crowder, Reed, or Garcon before I go to Jackson.