Who stays? Garcon or DJax???

[justice98]

15 hours ago, squatch66 said:

As a side note I started to wonder if we might try to acquire Brandin Cooks since it seems the 'aints want to get rid of him, but after watching him pull up rather than catch a pass and get hit with his team down in the 4th quarter, I don't think he's our type of guy.

 

 

You dont think DJax woulda done the exact same thing?

[oraphus]

It should be Garcon by a large margin.. 

Look Jackson is great... when he wants to be and when he can stay on the field. 

knocks against him:

1. Inj prone

2. small (see above)

3. doesnt like to practice with the team which seams to effect chemistry w Cousins.

4. age

5. money - i think he will ask for min 8mil a year.  thats just too much for what he brings to the table.

 

The 2-3 good games we get from him over the season are just not worth the investment.

 

[TSO]

 

[wit33]

13 hours ago, oraphus said:

It should be Garcon by a large margin.. 

Look Jackson is great... when he wants to be and when he can stay on the field. 

knocks against him:

1. Inj prone

2. small (see above)

3. doesnt like to practice with the team which seams to effect chemistry w Cousins.

4. age

5. money - i think he will ask for min 8mil a year.  thats just too much for what he brings to the table.

 

The 2-3 good games we get from him over the season are just not worth the investment.

 

 

With Kirk rediscovering that long ball of late, man, its tough to say getting rid of the best deep field threat in the game. Admittedly, I'm all over the place with it and have convinced myself in being okay with letting him go, because of the confidence I have in Kirk and the scheme. I just don't think the offense has a chance to be elite/special without him. 

[Koolblue13]

"doesn't like to practice with the team."

 

Gimme a break. He had a kid and took a vacation with his family and posted videos of himself training much harder.

 

They work together after practice.

 

What a joke.

[oraphus]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

"doesn't like to practice with the team."

 

Gimme a break. He had a kid and took a vacation with his family and posted videos of himself training much harder.

 

They work together after practice.

 

What a joke.

dont be so naive.. the guy skips most voluntary training camps going back to the Eagle days.. and we all know those camps are not truly voluntary. In 2015 he basically admitted that his not showing up for training camp/ preseason has caused him to not be in game shape which is the reason he got hurt in the first game.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/09/16/desean-jackson-concedes-missing-preseason-probably-contributed-to-his-injury/?utm_term=.7b4aa6ac24d2

 

I am not saying he sucks.. just with his inj history and age, he is almost guaranteed to miss 2-4 weeks a year. He is also at that age where he will soon start slowing down and without his speed he is nothing. He'll most likely want a 3y deal, where he will only play for another 1-2y max at a high level.

If you have to choose between the two which skins will have to do since they cant afford both.. would you really feel confident going in to the season with Jackson, crowder and an unproven Dotson who cant even get on the field? Knowing that jackson gets dinged up easily and will miss time. To me Garcon, crowder, doctson sounds much better for the season, (hoping that doctson takes over that DJ role at some point) but even if not with Reed in play i believe skins have enough weapons for O to succeed.

 

 

[Chew]

On top of the absurd adjustment/catch he made on the TD, he keeps making plays like these on game day...he can do whatever the **** he wants in practice....

 

With djax and Reed on the field, there will forever be somebody open.  

 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, oraphus said:

dont be so naive.. the guy skips most voluntary training camps going back to the Eagle days.. and we all know those camps are not truly voluntary. In 2015 he basically admitted that his not showing up for training camp/ preseason has caused him to not be in game shape which is the reason he got hurt in the first game.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2015/09/16/desean-jackson-concedes-missing-preseason-probably-contributed-to-his-injury/?utm_term=.7b4aa6ac24d2

 

I am not saying he sucks.. just with his inj history and age, he is almost guaranteed to miss 2-4 weeks a year. He is also at that age where he will soon start slowing down and without his speed he is nothing. He'll most likely want a 3y deal, where he will only play for another 1-2y max at a high level.

If you have to choose between the two which skins will have to do since they cant afford both.. would you really feel confident going in to the season with Jackson, crowder and an unproven Dotson who cant even get on the field? Knowing that jackson gets dinged up easily and will miss time. To me Garcon, crowder, doctson sounds much better for the season, (hoping that doctson takes over that DJ role at some point) but even if not with Reed in play i believe skins have enough weapons for O to succeed.

 

 

 

He also came into this season with the coaching staff saying him being excellent shape, better then they've seen him in including increasing his muscle mass to be a strong receiver.   Surprised it took this long for the typical DJax character assassination to show up.  His production is what's turning me off from wanting to resign him, not him as a person.

58 minutes ago, youngchew said:

 

 

With djax and Reed on the field, there will forever be somebody open.  

 

 

 

This is hard to ignore, but is it worth it if it keeps our defense undermanned due to not having enough money to address it?  Unless we pull multiple rabbits out our hats, not sure I see how we can keep both and address the defense this offseason.  Push come to shove if one or both want too much, if this offense is truely elite, we wouldn't be talking about hoping to run the table and needing helping to get in the playoffs.  I really want them both back, and Djax is one of my favorite players, I just don't know if we can pull it off in a way that makes sense for all parties involved.

[TheGreek1973]

DJax is an awesome receiver.  Question is can we sigh them both.  If we can do it.  If not it must be Garcon because of everything else this guy does, including blocking down field.  Remember our offense is West Coast, its not bombs away.  Still I would love to have Djax and hell I wish Cousins considers very carefully what he asks for money, including saying I will take less if you can bring back these two guys.    

[Renegade7]

28 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

DJax is an awesome receiver.  Question is can we sigh them both.  If we can do it.  If not it must be Garcon because of everything else this guy does, including blocking down field.  Remember our offense is West Coast, its not bombs away.  Still I would love to have Djax and hell I wish Cousins considers very carefully what he asks for money, including saying I will take less if you can bring back these two guys.    

Seriously, Kirk will have nobody to blame but himself if he asks for so much he has no one to throw to.

[markmills67]

I have a feeling that Jackson will almost certainly be an Eagle next year. Also what type of contract would Garcon be looking for?. 

 

HTTR 

[RedBeast]

Completely understand both sides of the argument for resigning/not resigning DJax, and quite frankly I am torn as well. One question though, how much does have DJax being a threat open up possibilities for the strong receivers/TE's that we currently have? How much would not having him impact the rest of the receiving game? Would his departure cause a drop of production from the squad we kept? Would DJax's departure directly impact Garcon, and how? Positive or Negative? Sure wish we could weigh the big fat white elephant in the room into this conversation, Senor Doctson.

 

"Everyone is focusing on this guy, DeSean Jackson..."

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000704576/Kirk-Cousins-finds-Josh-Doctson-for-a-61-yard-catch 

[oraphus]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

He also came into this season with the coaching staff saying him being excellent shape, better then they've seen him in including increasing his muscle mass to be a strong receiver.   Surprised it took this long for the typical DJax character assassination to show up.  His production is what's turning me off from wanting to resign him, not him as a person.

 

 

Don't forget that this season is his contract year so he has all the $$$ motivation to show the best he's capable of in order to get a nice fat contract next year. it would behoove skins to look at this year as contract year anomaly and look at his full history when making future determination. Again, i have nothing against the guy and he is definitely an asset, but i feel strongly that skins need to take a page out of the Billichik book and let go of good players at the tail end of their career at the right time, instead of overpaying for past production.

[Koolblue13]

I get called a lot of things and they're usually pretty right on. Naive is a new one.  

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, oraphus said:

 

Don't forget that this season is his contract year so he has all the $$$ motivation to show the best he's capable of in order to get a nice fat contract next year. it would behoove skins to look at this year as contract year anomaly and look at his full history when making future determination. Again, i have nothing against the guy and he is definitely an asset, but i feel strongly that skins need to take a page out of the Billichik book and let go of good players at the tail end of their career at the right time, instead of overpaying for past production.

 

I agree with not ignoring this is contract year for either of them.  In a way, that helps us if we look at this from strictly a production standpoint.  Both may barely break 1000 yds this year and neither broke 1000 last year.  We're better off NOT looking at DJax full history because he hasn't been the same monster he was in Philly from a numbers standpoint.  Patriots are not a fair example because they've been able to hold that team together with toothpicks and marshmellows because of the elite QB play of Brady and coaching of Belicheck. 

 

I would not go so far as to question how motivated DJax has been to play football while a Redskin.

[shakinaiken]

4 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

DJax is an awesome receiver.  Question is can we sigh them both.  If we can do it.  If not it must be Garcon because of everything else this guy does, including blocking down field.  Remember our offense is West Coast, its not bombs away.  Still I would love to have Djax and hell I wish Cousins considers very carefully what he asks for money, including saying I will take less if you can bring back these two guys.    

 

I disagree. While the West Coast may be the basis of our offense in terms of terminology and verbiage, this offense is predicated on chunk plays down the field. We rarely run three step drop routes- most of the passing attempts are 5 to 7 step drop plays, or shotgun. 

[NewCliche21]

35 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I agree with not ignoring this is contract year for either of them.  In a way, that helps us if we look at this from strictly a production standpoint.  Both may barely break 1000 yds this year and neither broke 1000 last year.  We're better off NOT looking at DJax full history because he hasn't been the same monster he was in Philly from a numbers standpoint.  Patriots are not a fair example because they've been able to hold that team together with toothpicks and marshmellows because of the elite QB play of Brady and coaching of Belicheck. 

 

I would not go so far as to question how motivated DJax has been to play football while a Redskin.

 

I ain't no Pats fan, but the personnel prowess that team has is undeniable.  They traded a fourth-round pick for Randy Moss, got the best receiver season basically ever for him, and then traded him for a THIRD-round pick.

 

Hate 'em as much as you want, but it's not all Brady.

[oraphus]

45 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I agree with not ignoring this is contract year for either of them.  In a way, that helps us if we look at this from strictly a production standpoint.  Both may barely break 1000 yds this year and neither broke 1000 last year.  We're better off NOT looking at DJax full history because he hasn't been the same monster he was in Philly from a numbers standpoint.  Patriots are not a fair example because they've been able to hold that team together with toothpicks and marshmellows because of the elite QB play of Brady and coaching of Belicheck. 

 

I would not go so far as to question how motivated DJax has been to play football while a Redskin.

By motivation i meant showing up for training camp this year.

While Skins can say that "hey.. you havent broken 1000yds in two years". His response will be that "I was available and healthy but Cousins or game planning couldn't get me the ball". I pretty much guarantee he is not giving us a discount based on his current production.

Belichek is great at many things and having Brady helps of course but he is able to get rid of both O and D players and not loose a beat. One of the major reasons he is great is that he got rid of stars right before they decline over and over and brought it younger, better players on the cheap. He got rid of Wes Walker, who played half a season before retiring and replaced him w Edleman, Amendola and now Hogan on the cheap who are still going strong. Not all his moves work out, but for the most part he gets rid of players just in time and usually underpays for the same or better level of production for scheme players that fit.

I think skins are able to find a similar level of production as an occasional deep threat with a younger wr like - mike wallace or Tory Smith type, for a third of the price and use that money to bring is some badly needed D help.

[Renegade7]

59 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

I ain't no Pats fan, but the personnel prowess that team has is undeniable.  They traded a fourth-round pick for Randy Moss, got the best receiver season basically ever for him, and then traded him for a THIRD-round pick.

 

Hate 'em as much as you want, but it's not all Brady.

Name five guys on that defense off the top of your head right now.  They've been doing that for years, very well coached team, but they haven't been full of recognizable names since the Teddy Bruschi days.

[Renegade7]

47 minutes ago, oraphus said:

By motivation i meant showing up for training camp this year.

While Skins can say that "hey.. you havent broken 1000yds in two years". His response will be that "I was available and healthy but Cousins or game planning couldn't get me the ball". I pretty much guarantee he is not giving us a discount based on his current production.

Belichek is great at many things and having Brady helps of course but he is able to get rid of both O and D players and not loose a beat. One of the major reasons he is great is that he got rid of stars right before they decline over and over and brought it younger, better players on the cheap. He got rid of Wes Walker, who played half a season before retiring and replaced him w Edleman, Amendola and now Hogan on the cheap who are still going strong. Not all his moves work out, but for the most part he gets rid of players just in time and usually underpays for the same or better level of production for scheme players that fit.

I think skins are able to find a similar level of production as an occasional deep threat with a younger wr like - mike wallace or Tory Smith type, for a third of the price and use that money to bring is some badly needed D help.

Again, I don't think DJax is coming back, but I don't believe his character is why, despite our convo, I haven't moved from that stance.  And the truth about the patriots is they are not replacing their players with star players, just a bunch of cats that are getting coached up.  That's why their defense is suspect and now without Gronk you can barely name anyone on offense besides Brady.  I like the Tory Smith idea.

[NewCliche21]

7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Name five guys on that defense off the top of your head right now.  They've been doing that for years, very well coached team, but not haven't been full of recognizable names since the Teddy Bruschi days.

 

We're having two different discussions I think.  I meant that when the Pats do it, they do it well.  Law is another one off the top of my head.  I'm just talking about taking the "buy low sell high" mentality to the personnel level.  They don't do it every day, but when they make a move it tends to be the right one.

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

We're having two different discussions I think.  I meant that when the Pats do it, they do it well.  Law is another one off the top of my head.  I'm just talking about taking the "buy low sell high" mentality to the personnel level.  They don't do it every day, but when they make a move it tends to be the right one.

True, and I'm talking about 2016 in terms of talent or names on defense.  They still haven't replaced Chandler Jones, yet.  It's been a while since they were really a stock pile of talent versus group of guys doing their job well enough with a few stars outside Brady.  Eagles used to be like that, but the reason New England has rings and Philly doesn't is Brady >>>>> McNabb.

[SoulSkin]

I do wonder how much longer Jackson will have that extra gear, but I don't think he'll ever lose that ball tracking ability. It would suck to see him go back to the Eagles. I have thought about what he could do stretching the field for other teams, like maybe the Jets with Marshall and Decker, or Oakland with Cooper and Crabtree. Man, they could be crazy offenses. So many teams would be more potent with him opening up things for other guys. I love both of them, but picking one, I hesitantly say Garcon for the same reasons a lot of people have said. Then I think about it a little more, what a huge difference maker Jackson is, and I pick him. I flip flop in my head almost every day when I read this thread title and think about it. If it comes down to one or the other, I'm glad it's not a decision I have no part of.

[Stefanskins]

Just now, SoulSkin said:

I do wonder how much longer Jackson will have that extra gear, but I don't think he'll ever lose that ball tracking ability. It would suck to see him go back to the Eagles. I have thought about what he could do stretching the field for other teams, like maybe the Jets with Marshall and Decker, or Oakland with Cooper and Crabtree. Man, they could be crazy offenses. So many teams would be more potent with him opening up things for other guys. I love both of them, but picking one, I hesitantly say Garcon for the same reasons a lot of people have said. Then I think about it a little more, what a huge difference maker Jackson is, and I pick him. I flip flop in my head almost every day when I read this thread title and think about it. Glad it's not a decision I have to make.

 

you know, like someone said earlier in this thread,,,it does seem that DJax does have that DG speed...you know the one where he's still runnin a 4.2 at 50 years old...I could most definitely be wrong cause its just a gut feelin' but I bet he will have that elite speed for another 5-7 years...some dudes are just genetically blessed...I wish I was genetically blessed...in anything...

[SoulSkin]

Just now, Stefanskins said:

I wish I was genetically blessed...in anything...

 

C'mon man, you're genetically blessed in the internets Stefan. Don't sell yourself short there.