The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Conn]

I have never, ever been this unexcited/unenthusiastic leading up to a draft. Ever. And this is after two winning seasons in a row for the first time under Snyder and a HC extension for the first time under Snyder. That's how bad this offseason has been. Scot/FO drama...lackluster FA period we were all hyped for, because it seemed like we'd been planning for a jump forward this offseason for a long time...Cousins not signed to LTD. These three things are killing my buzz and I'm less interested now than I ever was during the spectacular ****shows of any of the Vinny/Zorn/Shanahan/Griffin drama/etc. offseasons. 

 

This is apathy and its infecting this fanbase more than ever before, you can see it all over this board. We're basically all here arguing out of habit at this point, its all going downhill right now. If this splashes over into ticket sales and leads to the empty stadiums that marked the end of the Zorn and Shanahan eras, it might actually be our best chance to end the Allen era. But I doubt it.

[petedaddy]

5 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I have never, ever been this unexcited/unenthusiastic leading up to a draft. Ever. And this is after two winning seasons in a row for the first time under Snyder and a HC extension for the first time under Snyder. That's how bad this offseason has been. Scot/FO drama...lackluster FA period we were all hyped for, because it seemed like we'd been planning for a jump forward this offseason for a long time...Cousins not signed to LTD. These three things are killing my buzz and I'm less interested now than I ever was during the spectacular ****shows of any of the Vinny/Zorn/Shanahan/Griffin drama/etc. offseasons. 

 

This is apathy and its infecting this fanbase more than ever before, you can see it all over this board. We're basically all here arguing out of habit at this point, its all going downhill right now. If this splashes over into ticket sales and leads to the empty stadiums that marked the end of the Zorn and Shanahan eras, it might actually be our best chance to end the Allen era. But I doubt it.

 

It is beyond frustrating and I feel the same way...I think we all marked this offseason as the one where we look to make those two or three splashes that could put us over the hump

 

For me I know I don't have the overall football knowledge of the people who are paid to make these decisions, however I am willing to bet money that if you pooled everyone here on extremeskins (the sane ones anyways) we all would have come to the same conclusion

 

1.  We need some help on the defensive line...Mr Poe, Mr Hankins, Mr Williams, Mr Campbell, Mr Swaggy please report to Redskins park immediately... We need you here... We're going to build a special defense here and we need some of you to anchor it

 

2.  We need an inside linebacker ... Mr Compton I'm afraid your time starting is up

 

3.  We need safety help ... Su'a you best be damn ready to play safety (I'm overall ok with what we did here)

 

4.  We need to figure out wide receiver (I'm overall ok with what we did here)

 

5.  We need to lock up Kirk long term

 

6.  On to the draft...

     a.  NFL caliber running back

     b.  Big boy depth on the line

     c.  Tight end

     d.  Try to hit a home run on a safety

 

7.  Luxury items

     a.  Left guard

 

I feel that overall we all would come to these, or similar, conclusions and while I know I don't have the overall football knowledge of the ones paid to make the decisions; I believe that if collectively we all see this then there is something to it

 

I haven't heard anyone say, "nah, were good with our front seven" or say, "holy hell, that Will Compton is an animal out there!!!!"

 

So now we are down to the draft and hoping for miracles.  It is definitely not the position I thought we would be in now

[zCommander]

23 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm not sure they're going to follow the drunk guy that lost a power struggles plans.

 

Steve Jobs did LSD and weed and yet he still made iApple something.  

 

I guess you missed the report where it was reported that the draft board and the FA was already set by Scot. 

 

"While McCloughan hasn’t been involved in any Redskins decision over the past two weeks, the team has followed his board early in free agency—safety DJ Swearinger and defensive tackles Terrell McClain and Stacy McGee were high on his list as he emphasized rebuilding the defense up the middle. Washington landed all three of those guys. And the draft board, while subject to change, also was set before he left."

 

[3 Rings]

I wonder if we haven't signed an ILB because we are potentially in an area where Peppers gets drafted?  Swearing at FS, Peppers at SS and Sua maybe bulks up and plays backer?  Is this feasible or do I still need to drink my morning coffee?

[CTskin]

@Skinsinparadise now that FA is wrapping up and Scot is no longer our GM, can you tell us some of the specifics that you couldn't reveal a couple months ago? Although you never said it, it seemed like Scot was planning on making big DL moves? Not exactly McClain and McGee... 

[carex]

45 minutes ago, CTskin said:

@Skinsinparadise now that FA is wrapping up and Scot is no longer our GM, can you tell us some of the specifics that you couldn't reveal a couple months ago? Although you never said it, it seemed like Scot was planning on making big DL moves? Not exactly McClain and McGee... 

 

well McClain and McGee were supposedly on the board.  And please recall Scot had trouble with the DL in the past

[RabidFan]

Didn't some link us to Lawrence Guy as well who ended up signing with the Pats?  Wonder if that threesome combo was in Scot's mind to then add to it from the draft.

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, carex said:

 

well McClain and McGee were supposedly on the board.  And please recall Scot had trouble with the DL in the past

 

The attempt by some to blame this all in Scot has made me think a little deeper on the subject and I don't mean this sarcastically but if this is Scot's rodeo it really absolves Scot in my book and puts its all on Bruce.    The two players that were telegraphed that the Redskins wanted the most on D line BEFORE FA even started was Bennie Logan and Calais Campbell.  Bruce actually considered both players with Logan actually spending two days at Redskins Park.  Bruce didn't sign either one.

 

So if its all about Scot.  Scot had both guys on the shopping list and by some indications, the top of his list.  Keim suggested as much on Campbell.  It's like giving an order pick up request for Bruce at a pizzeria and you put on the list, pizza, garlic rolls and salad.  Bruce comes back from the pizzeria with the salad and garlic rolls but no pizza.  He goes well the pizza price was too steep for me.   If so I am not blaming the person who created the order list, pizza was on it.  

 

But yeah I do think its silly to blame anything someone doesn't like about FA on Scot, he's gone.  When I met with Scot in November he had one theme with me as to the team's needs and it was D line, D line, D line.  By indications here, he had some big time D lineman on the shopping list.  No way I buy that Scot said lets sign McGee and McClain and then lets call it a day.  I buy what Keim said which was Calais Campbell was #1 on the list, and i buy the report that Logan was on that list too -- likely the #2 target.  Looks like Bruce went shopping and got the #3 and #4 target and now might be calling it a day for the D line.   If so, and it doesn't work out its 100% on Bruce IMO.

[goskins10]

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The attempt by some to blame this all in Scot has made me think a little deeper on the subject and I don't mean this sarcastically but if this is Scot's rodeo it really absolves Scot in my book and puts its all on Bruce.    The two players that were telegraphed that the Redskins wanted the most on D line BEFORE FA even started was Bennie Logan and Calais Campbell.  Bruce actually considered both players with Logan actually spending two days at Redskins Park.  Bruce didn't sign either one.

 

So if its all about Scot.  Scot had both guys on the shopping list and by some indications, the top of his list.  Keim suggested as much on Campbell.  It's like giving an order pick up request for Bruce at a pizzeria and you put on the list, pizza, garlic rolls and salad.  Bruce comes back from the pizzeria with the salad and garlic rolls but no pizza.  He goes well the pizza price was too steep for me.   If so I am not blaming the person who created the order list, pizza was on it.  

 

But yeah I do think its silly to blame anything someone doesn't like about FA on Scot, he's gone.  When I met with Scot in November he had one theme with me as to the team's needs and it was D line, D line, D line.  By indications here, he had some big time D lineman on the shopping list.  No way I buy that Scot said lets sign McGee and McClain and then lets call it a day.  I buy what Keim said which was Calais Campbell was #1 on the list, and i buy the report that Logan was on that list too -- likely the #2 target.  Looks like Bruce went shopping and got the #3 and #4 target and now might be calling it a day for the D line.   If so, and it doesn't work out its 100% on Bruce IMO.

 

The day they released Scot was the very moment that Bruce owned everything that happened after that - good or bad. If you fire someone then follow their exact guidance it's not the persons responsibility who was fired. It's on the person following that guidance as they can make the decision not to follow it.

 

But if things do work out you can't just say - well that was Scot's plan. Regardless of the outcome it's 100% on Bruce - good or bad.

[FrFan]

50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

   If so, and it doesn't work out its 100% on Bruce IMO.

Please don't tell me he'll do the same with the draft !

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, CTskin said:

@Skinsinparadise now that FA is wrapping up and Scot is no longer our GM, can you tell us some of the specifics that you couldn't reveal a couple months ago? Although you never said it, it seemed like Scot was planning on making big DL moves? Not exactly McClain and McGee... 

 

I'll start with my conclusion if they are working with Scot's lists.  At this point, they have extensive research from Scot on the defensive tackles in the draft.  So perhaps Bruce is chill about the status quo because he plans to act on it.   I doubt as I explained that Scot told him to go with the 2nd tier-3rd tier defensive tackles in FA and call it a day.   Calais and Logan were clearly on Bruce's list.  And it would fit the narrative I got from my meeting.

 

My take talking to him as it relates to current stuff going on:

 

 He strongly suggested he wanted at least one of the two guys back at WR but didn't tell me which one.  So I buy the narrative from Breer that Garcon probably would still be here if Scot remained.

 

He was in no panic about MLB, i mentioned it as a need and he seemed to shrug it off but didn't elaborate.  He told me he liked Spaight.

 

He was high on Cravens and thought he could be a good safety.

 

He was at code red on the D line, explaining in different ways and at different points in conversation that its his main focus in the off season.  He highlighted that position specifically as for his draft prep.  Most of what i learned from him was just him answering my questions.  But on the D line, he brought it up a few times in different ways.  I got the sense that he knew that they missed on the D line last off season and he's all over it this time.   He explained he had a target at D line in the 2nd round in 2016 but was taken before their pick.   I asked him about S. Richardson and he was careful talking to me about him because Richardson was under contract but it was easy for me to see body language wise/smiling as wide as could be -- that he was tempted when they Jets ponied him up in trade offers around the league during the season.

 

He brought the subject up to me as to the D line. It came off to me almost defensive like hey you are a fan and I know what you are thinking, let me explain, we are fixing it... really everything else we talked about was simply him answering questions i posed at him.  I got a lot of interesting material out of him because he's so forthright.  On a sidebar, he was completely lucid.  If he was drinking that day he was very good at hiding it because he was very smooth.  He came off like I've said before as a great guy.   Bruce came off cool, too but just talked to him for 2-3 minutes.

 

By the way that same urgency on the D line was repeated by some of the beat reporters before FA.  For example, JP Finley said recently he's very surprised they didn't sign one of the marquee D lineman considering what he heard before FA. 

[RWJ]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll start with my conclusion if they are working with Scot's lists.  At this point, they have extensive research from Scot on the defensive tackles in the draft.  So perhaps Bruce is chill about the status quo because he plans to act on it.   I doubt as I explained that Scot told him to go with the 2nd tier-3rd tier defensive tackles in FA and call it a day.   Calais and Logan were clearly on Bruce's list.  And it would fit the narrative I got from my meeting.

 

My take talking to him as it relates to current stuff going on:

 

 He strongly suggested he wanted at least one of the two guys back at WR but didn't tell me which one.  So I buy the narrative from Breer that Garcon probably would still be here if Scot remained.

 

He was in no panic about MLB, i mentioned it as a need and he seemed to shrug it off but didn't elaborate.  He told me he liked Spaight.

 

He was high on Cravens and thought he could be a good safety.

 

He was at code red on the D line, explaining in different ways and at different points in conversation that its his main focus in the off season.  He highlighted that position specifically as for his draft prep.  Most of what i learned from him was just him answering my questions.  But on the D line, he brought it up a few times in different ways.  I got the sense that he knew that they missed on the D line last off season and he's all over it this time.   He explained he had a target at D line in the 2nd round in 2016 but was taken before their pick.   I asked him about S. Richardson and he was careful talking to me about him because Richardson was under contract but it was easy for me to see body language wise/smiling as wide as could be -- that he was tempted when they Jets ponied him up in trade offers around the league during the season.

 

He brought the subject up to me as to the D line. It came off to me almost defensive like hey you are a fan and I know what you are thinking, let me explain, we are fixing it... really everything else we talked about was simply him answering questions i posed at him.  I got a lot of interesting material out of him because he's so forthright.  On a sidebar, he was completely lucid.  If he was drinking that day he was very good at hiding it because he was very smooth.  He came off like I've said before as a great guy.   Bruce came off cool, too but just talked to him for 2-3 minutes.

 

By the way that same urgency on the D line was repeated by some of the beat reporters before FA.  For example, JP Finley said recently he's very surprised they didn't sign one of the marquee D lineman considering what he heard before FA. 

Got to think we draft a QB somewhere in the 2nd or 3rd round, this year.

[Est.1974]

To be fair to Bruce, perhaps our top 2 DL targets became unrealistic pick-ups. Sounds like we dropped out the Campbell running at the death, leaving it to the Jags to pay 15mil p/y. Dare say it became obvious they were going to keep going until he was theirs. And Logan visited around to up his cash. Think he probably used us. Way it goes.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

To be fair to Bruce, perhaps our top 2 DL targets became unrealistic pick-ups. Sounds like we dropped out the Campbell running at the death, leaving it to the Jags to pay 15mil p/y. Dare say it became obvious they were going to keep going until he was theirs. And Logan visited around to up his cash. Think he probably used us. Way it goes.

 

Logan got a reasonable contract IMO and if the Redskins offered a decent multiple year deal, I'd assume they'd have landed him.  I doubt Logan would have wasted 2 days at Redskins Park purely as leverage.  In that case, his agent could have just leaked the Redskins interest without wasting Logan's time.   

 

If they are just blindly running with Scot's lists then what happens if Plan A doesn't work -- if so IMO they should adjust.  Do you strengthen the team elsewhere to take some pressure off the draft.  People mention the draft a lot in context of not landing FA targets.  But generally you are lucky if you land 2-3 starters from the draft.  If we are wildly optimistic lets say we got lucky with our first 4 picks.   If FA stays the way it is.  IMO you need at least 2 of those picks dedicated to the D line and you need to get them both right.    

 

People say we can find the MLB in the draft, its a great draft for corner, we can get a speed edge rusher, running back, etc.  Clearly, we aren't going to land all of this, something has to give.   The players we draft in rounds 5-7th are unlikely to be major contributors.  Actually statistically speaking the odds are less than 50-50 that players succeed starting from round 3 on down. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Good summary.  We've gone IMO from one extreme on the pendulum to another extreme.  For me, I'd like a happy medium. 

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30648/redskins-ditch-old-spending-habits-but-need-frugality-to-pay-off

Redskins ditch old spending habits, but need frugality to pay off

The free-agent contracts handed out by the Washington Redskins no longer cause gasps or create market value for other players. Instead, as this offseason showed once again, the team is now more about frugality and trying to find bargains.

If the approach works and these players help, the Redskins will be praised for their finds -- and they will have landed bargains. If not, they’ll be considered just cheap and ineffective....

Washington's defensive line still needs more and Logan would have helped. Were they penny-wise or pound foolish? That depends on whether they select a defensive lineman in the upper rounds and how in-house players develop.

What we do know is that the Redskins' lavish spending of the past didn’t work. We also know their bargain hunting hasn’t struck gold in the early parts of free agency the past few years, either. The deals they do hand out make sense for their books. Now, they need them to pay off on the field.

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He was at code red on the D line, explaining in different ways and at different points in conversation that its his main focus in the off season.  He highlighted that position specifically as for his draft prep.  Most of what i learned from him was just him answering my questions.  But on the D line, he brought it up a few times in different ways.  I got the sense that he knew that they missed on the D line last off season and he's all over it this time.   He explained he had a target at D line in the 2nd round in 2016 but was taken before their pick.  

 

 

Thanks for the post.

 

Regarding the target at DL in the 2nd round: My guess is we were targeting Jarran Reed, but Seattle traded up (from 56 to 49) to get him before we could.  It makes sense they would know our target, given how transparent Scot can be at times (your conversation with him being a perfect example).  I think Scot knew that Reed would fall to the 2nd round, because he was primarily a run stuffer, and teams would pass on him early.  His old buddy Schneider probably knows Scot better than anyone in the league, and I'm sure he knew that if he really wanted Reed, he would have to trade up in front of us to get him.

 

Scot attacked the OL and EDGE early in 2015 with Scherff and Smith.  I'm guessing he planned to attack the lines again early in 2016, which is how he's stated numerous times he likes to build a team (inside-out).  I think his dream scenario in the first couple rounds would have been to end up with Ryan Kelly and Jarran Reed, but the draft just didn't fall that way.  Instead of reaching, they went BPA, which I can respect and applaud, but which made a lot of fans impatient and cast doubt on the draft because no immediate starters were selected the first two rounds.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Regarding the target at DL in the 2nd round: My guess is we were targeting Jarran Reed, but Seattle traded up (from 56 to 49) to get him before we could.  It makes sense they would know our target, given how transparent Scot can be at times (your conversation with him being a perfect example).  I think Scot knew that Reed would fall to the 2nd round, because he was primarily a run stuffer, and teams would pass on him early.  His old buddy Schneider probably knows Scot better than anyone in the league, and I'm sure he knew that if he really wanted Reed, he would have to trade up in front of us to get him.

 

 

Could be so.  He didn't tell me who the player was.  But yeah like you said I'd presume he and J. Schneider think the same way.   I haven't really thought about it in this way until now.  But if J. Reed was the guy, I wonder if they are targeting Tomlinson in round 2.  He's an Alabama player, too.  Similar type of guy, run stuffer.  And he should be available at pick #17 in the 2nd round. 

 

Scot also spent a ton on Justin Smith as a FA back when D line was a need in SF.  I'd bet money that Scot would have been willing to pay the price for Calais Campbell or Logan or maybe even both.  Plus he's pretty direct in the idea that he likes to go BPA in the draft, I'd be really surprised that he'd leave himself with so much pressure as to addressing D line in the draft.   The idea that Scot is just willing to go cheap in FA doesn't play out.  It wasn't a hit ultimately but he paid a ton of money for Clements when he was a FA.  The more I think about it the more I am convinced that Josh Norman was a Scot push not a Bruce push.  

[I Love The Skins]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Good summary.  We've gone IMO from one extreme on the pendulum to another extreme.  For me, I'd like a happy medium. 

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30648/redskins-ditch-old-spending-habits-but-need-frugality-to-pay-off

.

I also would like a happy medium too.

[Sekhmet187]

Is there any thought Bruce didn't want to break the bank on any one guy assuming the next GM in place would want some room as opposed to being saddled with people who might not be his guys?

 

I hear a lot about people not happy Bruce hasn't gone out an offered contracts to some of the top dlineman, but what if the thought was to get bargained contracts with an eye for cap space in the future so the next GM doesn't walk in an want to burn it all?

 

Now this is assuming they will eventually be replacing Scot with a new GM as well. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Jason Wilde‏Verified account @jasonjwilde  39s40 seconds ago

 

Jason Wilde Retweeted Ian Rapoport

That makes four veteran free agents signed by #Packers: Bennett, Kendricks, House, and Jean Francois. #OxfordComma

Jason Wilde added,

Ian RapoportVerified account @RapSheet

After visiting the #Packers, DT Ricky Jean Francois is signing a 1-year deal for $3mil with GB.

0 replies1 retweet1 like

 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Logan got a reasonable contract IMO and if the Redskins offered a decent multiple year deal, I'd assume they'd have landed him.  I doubt Logan would have wasted 2 days at Redskins Park purely as leverage.  In that case, his agent could have just leaked the Redskins interest without wasting Logan's time.   

 

It was widely noted that Logan wanted a one year deal. I really think he got the gig he was after elsewhere. Same with Poe, granted we had no reported interest. No way Campbell was getting more per year than Norman either. I think the Jags didn't have a limit on that one. He was cashing in to the max and we were not winning that one.

 

I do share your view overall on our FA efforts though. At the very least once the DT situation turned against us we should have been bringing in an ILB straight away.

 

I was also being half serious yesterday, Kirks potentially absurd 2018 tag cap number is still in play.....

[HTTRDynasty]

43 minutes ago, Sekhmet187 said:

Is there any thought Bruce didn't want to break the bank on any one guy assuming the next GM in place would want some room as opposed to being saddled with people who might not be his guys?

 

I hear a lot about people not happy Bruce hasn't gone out an offered contracts to some of the top dlineman, but what if the thought was to get bargained contracts with an eye for cap space in the future so the next GM doesn't walk in an want to burn it all?

 

Now this is assuming they will eventually be replacing Scot with a new GM as well. 

 

It's also assuming the new GM will be given any real power anyway...

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

It was widely noted that Logan wanted a one year deal. I really think he got the gig he was after elsewhere. Same with Poe, granted we had no reported interest. No way Campbell was getting more per year than Norman either. I think the Jags didn't have a limit on that one. He was cashing in to the max and we were not winning that one.

 

I do share your view overall on our FA efforts though. At the very least once the DT situation turned against us we should have been bringing in an ILB straight away.

 

I was also being half serious yesterday, Kirks potentially absurd 2018 tag cap number is still in play.....

 

Yeah I agree that Calais' price tag was too high.  And yeah agree if you are missing on the top DTs -- go sign a Zach Brown or a top player at a need position on defense. 

 

I am more skeptical about Logan and how that went down.   The one year deal with him was in lieu of him not getting what he wanted in a multi-year contract deal.  Ditto with Pryor where he took the one year deal to bet on himself but preferred bigger money on a multi-year contract if he got what he thought he was worth.  

 

As just about every national reporter who cited agents and Joel Corry ex-agent has said -- money talks in FA, almost every time the team who offers more money lands the guy.  I just don't see Logan going through the trouble of meeting with the Redskins brass on a Friday and then again on a Saturday just to scare the Chiefs into a better deal. Even if he'd only take a 1 year deal, why wouldn't he take the Redskins deal over the Chiefs if they offered more?  Though granted, we will never know.

 

My issue with Bruce in FA is like Keim likes to say his drill is to get the bargain.  And I just don't like that being the overriding approach to FA.   Sometimes you got to overpay to land a target.   If you got to pay $500,000 more to land Logan over KC to ensure you have a real NT, than its worth it IMO.   

[Genghis Khan]

7 hours ago, carex said:

 

well McClain and McGee were supposedly on the board.  And please recall Scot had trouble with the DL in the past

 

True I think he was trying to create something similar to the Seahawks signing  a bunch bodies instead of quality. Guys that they could rotate a lot and play at multiple spots. They had success with guys like Alan branch, Chris Wilson, and Clint McDonald. Then signing Bennett really improved that line.

[Koolblue13]

10 hours ago, zskins said:

 

Steve Jobs did LSD and weed and yet he still made iApple something.  

 

I guess you missed the report where it was reported that the draft board and the FA was already set by Scot. 

 

"While McCloughan hasn’t been involved in any Redskins decision over the past two weeks, the team has followed his board early in free agency—safety DJ Swearinger and defensive tackles Terrell McClain and Stacy McGee were high on his list as he emphasized rebuilding the defense up the middle. Washington landed all three of those guys. And the draft board, while subject to change, also was set before he left."

 

No I didn't miss ****, I just don't believe it. You had 2 guys butting heads about who was right and who was wrong and one obviously lost. I doubt the winner is just going to start listening now.

 

And Steve jobs wasn't a third tier employee. Hes the boss. Not that I'm knocking any of it. Big fan.